Wednesday: Hili dialogue

April 12, 2017 • 6:30 am

by Grania

On this day in 1980 the US decided to boycott the Moscow Olympics in protest over the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Although other countries were to join the US in the boycott, not everyone saw it as the smart decision.

In 1999 Bill Clinton was found to be in contempt of court for giving “intentionally false testimony about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky in the Paula Jones lawsuit”.  Clinton settled the case paying $850,000. Note, this is Jones v Clinton; not to be confused with Clinton v Jones.

Going back a little in time, in 1945 President Franklin D Roosevelt died while in office. Although he is now widely regarded as one of the greatest presidents, at the time he was criticised for being pro the Jews of Europe, a warmonger and a fascist. (Does anything ever really change?)

In 1961 Yuri Gagarin became the first man in outer space. He orbited the earth for 108 minutes before returning to earth.

[Trigger warning: weirdness]

In 1975 today was the day the US pulled out of Cambodia in the fight against the Khmer Rouge, admitting defeat and removing its embassy. It would be another two weeks before the fall of Saigon and president Ford declaring an end to the Vietnam war.

And finally, we end up in Dobrzyń where Hili sounds like Alice in Wonderland having a philosophical conversation with the White Knight.

Hili: When it’s raining, cats get wet.
A: But you are inside.
Hili: Yes, but if I were to get out I would get wet.

In Polish:

Hili: Kiedy pada deszcz koty mokną.
Ja: Ale ty jesteś w domu.
Hili: Tak, ale gdybym wyszła to bym zmokła.

A new game that I’d play

April 11, 2017 • 4:15 pm

I don’t think I’ve ever played a video game in my life. I won’t give my reasons as I don’t want to offend readers who like them and would disagree with me. To each their own!

But this is one game I really would play: it’s called “HK”, and is in development; in fact, they just got funding. It’s about the stray cats of Hong Kong, and I love the graphics. I don’t even know what the game is really about! I do know it’ll be a while, since the developers are two guys and (they say) their cat. There’s a bit of information here:

But this game is about more than just being a cat. This is about being a cat in Hong Kong. More specifically it’s about being a cat in Kowloon Walled City, a crazily populated area of Hong Kong that is pretty much ungoverned. That’s just an astonishingly interesting high concept for a video game.

Watch their Twitter page and Facebook page for further developments:

There are more graphics on the “devblog“,

 

Shermer refutes Prager’s view that you can’t be moral without religion

April 11, 2017 • 3:30 pm

A while back I put up conservative Dennis Prager’s video (here) claiming that you couldn’t have a justified morality without religion.  And then I briefly refuted that claim, which wasn’t hard because it rested largely on the Divine Command Theory: good and bad are absolutely determined by God’s dictates. The Euthyprho argument, one of the great contributions of philosophy to clear thinking, refuted that conclusively.  (Yes, I know that Plato was dealing with piety rather than morality, but that’s irrelevant.) So does the cherry-picking of scriptural morality by nearly all believers, fundamentalist or not.

Here Michael Shermer presents an 8-minute video with a fuller refutation of this common claim:

Six minutes in, Shermer addresses the equally common argument:”Hitler and Stalin showed that atheism promotes big-time immorality.”

My only beef is that Shermer implies (though doesn’t say explicitly) that there are objective moral truths. I disagree.

Sean Spicer: “Hitler didn’t use chemical weapons”

April 11, 2017 • 2:30 pm

Here we have Sean Spicer, Trump’s press secretary, implicitly claiming that Bashar al-Assad is worse than Hitler, as Hitler didn’t sink . . .to using chemical weapons.”

Spicer apparently forgot about Zyklon B and carbon monoxide. Called out by a reporter, Spicer was unable to admit he was wrong, and instead says this:

“I think when you come to sarin gas. . . he was not using the gas on his own people the same way that Assad is doing. I understand your point. There was not in the. . . he brought them into the Holocaust center; I understand that. What I was saying: in the way Assad used them—where he went into towns, dropped them down to innocent. . .in the middle of towns, it was brought so. . .the use of it. . .I appreciate the clarification, and that was not the intent.”

How many ways can a guy put his foot in his mouth in less than a minute? (Click on the links if you can’t see the tw**ts.)

But wait! There’s more! Hallie Jackson, NBC’s chief White House correspondent, shows that Spicer’s attempts at damage repair just did more damage:

The lessons:

  • Know your history before you open your mouth about it.
  • Be careful when you compare people to Hitler
  • Don’t double down when you make a mistake: admit that you’re wrong. Spicer’s fumbling attempt to show that what Asssad did was in fact worse than what Hitler did to Jews, Romanis, gays, criminals, and so on, fell flat on its face. Is dropping a Sarin-containing bomb worse than confining naked people in small bunkers and gassing them with cyanide?
  • Spicer has the worst job in the world. Completely unqualified, he’s forced to make as ass of himself on a daily basis. Does he sleep well at night? Is he proud when he looks in the mirror?

h/t: Grania

 

Update: (by Grania)

He’s the gift that keeps on giving. You’d think that the White House would have decided for their own sakes they wouldn’t allow this guy near a microphone again.

Atheist Noam Chomsky disses New Atheists

April 11, 2017 • 10:00 am

Noam Chomsky, linguist, writer, and political activist, has long admitted—is “admitted” the right word now?—that he’s an atheist. Nevertheless, according to the Ideapod and Attack the System blogs, he has no love for the ideas of New Atheists. These quotes appear to be about ten years old, but I thought they were worth reproducing here.

(Note: the quotes appear identically in two places, but I haven’t been able to ascertain the original source.  They might come from a series of videos featuring Chomsky at the University of Wisconsin, but I haven’t had time to go through them all. If the quotes aren’t accurate I’ll simply withdraw my responses.) Here we go:

As an atheist myself, I’ve found these “new atheist” writers to be an embarrassment. First, none of the prominent ones are genuine religious scholars, historians of religion, or cultural anthropologists who can, for instance, examine the cultural, historical, literary, or linguistic contexts in which the varying parts of the Bible were written to provide an explanation of why fundamentalist biblical literalists are, well, mistaken and ignorant. There are plenty of genuine scholars of religion whose work examines religious beliefs and sacred texts within their proper framework, such as Robert Price, John Loftus, Daniel Barker, Hector Avalos, Bart Ehrman, and D.M. Murdoch. These are the skeptics who are worth paying attention to.

Earlier in the quotes (not shown), Chomsky mentions Hitchens, but I’m sure he also has Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins in mind. And yes, people like Price and Dan Barker were steeped in religion as erstwhile believers, and have attended seminary or worked as ministers, and so know the Bible, but I contend that one can forcefully criticize the truth claims of religion without such a background. After all, just ask any Christian two questions: “What is the evidence for your beliefs?” and “How do you know that your religion, as opposed to Hinduism, Islam, or Mormonism, is the correct religion?” Any intelligent laymen who isn’t a religious scholar can still take apart those arguments.

Further, explaining the context of how the Bible was written is not going to convince fundamentalists that they’re “mistaken and ignorant”. That may show the rest of us that they are, but we already know that, and that’s not the main goal of New Atheism.

True, scholars like Price, Loftus, and Ehrman have more ammunition than most of us.  They may know more than we, for instance, about how there’s no extra-Biblical evidence for the existence of a Jesus person, or that archaeologists find no evidence for the Exodus. But to a large degree this exegesis and historical reconstruction is unnecessary. For the task of New Atheism is different from the task of religious scholars, cultural anthropologists, and so on. The brief of New Atheists is to examine (and thus dispel) the evidence undergirding religious beliefs, and to call attention to the harms of believing in the absence of good evidence. That is, our job is to show that faith of any sort, but especially religious faith, is not a virtue.

The task of the others is narrower: to examine (and dispel when necessary) claims of scripture, to find out who wrote religious scripture and when the Bible, Qur’an, etc. were written, who copied who, and to dissect the historical origins of religious belief. All of that can promote nonbelief, but for most it’s not their explicit aim. If you’re concerned with skepticism, as Chomsky seemed to be, The God Delusion is in fact a more powerful argument for nonbelief than are the narrower (but still often excellent) writings of, say, Bart Ehrman. And, in fact, writers like Loftus and Barker often make arguments that are identical to those of New Atheists like the “four horsemen.” What Chomsky is doing here is raising the Credentials Argument without realizing that it’s largely irrelevant to New Atheists.

He goes on:

Second, they typically conflate atheism with stereotypical liberal or radical left-wing politics when there’s no inherent relationship whatsoever. See Machiavelli, Hobbes, Hume, Nietzsche, and Mencken.

Note that none of these people were “genuine religious scholars, historians of religion, or cultural anthropologists”!

And no, New Atheists don’t conflate atheism with a political viewpoint; it just happens that most New Atheists are on the Left. I’m not aware of any of the big voices in new atheism deliberately conflating nonbelief with politics in an “intersectional way,” though some, like P. Z. Myers, insist that “proper” atheism must go along with a particular left-wing ideology. For most of the rest of us, atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods and the tenets of religion. And some of us, like me, feel that promoting nonbelief will be speeded up by changing society in progressive ways.

Third, like the late Madalyn Murray O’Hair, they come across as narrow-minded and ill-informed bigots whose only purpose is to antagonize religious people.

This old canard doesn’t deserve refutation. Suffice it to say that the writings and talks of New Atheists have indeed changed the minds of thousands of people, and they’ve admitted in in places like Dawkins’s “Converts Corner”. In contrast, I doubt that Chomsky has ever turned a single believer into a nonbeliever! The “antagonism” and “bigot” cards are simply played by those who can’t answer New Atheist arguments, and raising those is unworthy of Chomsky.

NOTE ADDED LATER: It’s possible that up to this point I haven’t been quoting Chomsky, but Keith Preston, whose name is given on this post from Attack the System. (I say this because there’s a line between the quotes above and those below. I haven’t yet been able to check the attribution to Chomsky. If the quotes above are from Preston, consider my refutation that of Preston’s ideas, not Chomsky’s.

Chomsky goes on:

. . . I haven’t been thrilled by the atheist movement. First, who is the audience? Is it religious extremists? Say right-wing evangelical Christians like George Bush (as you rightly point out)? Or is it very prominent Rabbis in Israel who call for visiting the judgment of Amalek on all Palestinians (total destruction, down to their animals)? Or is it the radical Islamic fundamentalists who have been Washington’s most valued allies in the Middle East for 75 years (note that Bush’s current trip to the Middle East celebrates two events: the 60th anniversary of the State of Israel, and the 75th anniversary of establishment of US-Saudi relations, each of which merits more comment)? If those are the intended audiences, the effort is plainly a waste of time. Is the audience atheists? Again a waste of time. Is it the grieving mother who consoles herself by thinking that she will see her dying child again in heaven? If so, only the most morally depraved will deliver solemn lectures to her about the falsity of her beliefs. Is it those who have religious affiliations and beliefs, but don’t have to be reminded of what they knew as teenagers about the genocidal character of the Bible, the fact that biblical accounts are not literal truths, or that religion has often been the banner under which hideous crimes were carried out (the Crusades, for example)? Plainly not. The message is old hat, and irrelevant, at least for those whose religious affiliations are a way of finding some sort of community and mutual support in an atomized society lacking social bonds. Who, in fact, is the audience?

Here Chomsky says, wrongly, that believers already know that the Bible isn’t literally true or that religious scriptures inspired violence (viz., Reza Aslan and Karen Armstrong). Chomsky’s wrong. Literalism is the watchword of most Muslims and many Christians: millions of Americans believe in the literal truth of Genesis, the creation story, and Adam and Eve, and the Catholic Church insists that Adam and Eve were the real ancestors of all of us.

The audience for New Atheists is clear: those who are on the fence about religion, young people, and believers who are willing to be open-minded in examining their beliefs. This has been noted repeatedly by New Atheists. And none of us want to hector the “grieving mother”, for crying out loud! I’m surprised that someone of Chomsky’s considerable intelligence could write a paragraph like that.

Furthermore, if it is to be even minimally serious, the “new atheism” should focus its concerns on the virulent secular religions of state worship, so well exemplified by those who laud huge atrocities like the invasion of Iraq, or cannot comprehend why they might have some concern when their own state, with their support, carries out some of its minor peccadilloes, like killing probably tens of thousands of poor Africans by destroying their main source of pharmaceutical supplies on a whim — arguably more morally depraved than intentional killing, for reasons I’ve discussed elsewhere. In brief, to be minimally serious the “new atheism” should begin by looking in the mirror.

Without going on, I haven’t found it thrilling, though condemnation of dangerous beliefs and great crimes is always in order.

Here Chomsky is demanding an intersectional atheism aligned with his own political stansd. There is no necessary connection between believing in God and your views of Bill Clinton’s foreign policy. What Chomsky is doing here is simply asserting that atheists shouldn’t engage in extend to “state worship.” While there is a psychological connection between, say, the manipulation of people by religion and by the ideologies of Stalinism and Nazism, it’s by no means clear that adhering to U.S. policy, or generally to a government’s agenda, is “secular state worship.”

I needn’t go on; we all know that sometimes Chomsky goes off the rails, blinded by his own “religious” desire to blame America for all the world’s wrongs.

h/t: Nicole Reggia

Tuesday: Hili dialogue

April 11, 2017 • 6:30 am

by Grania

Happy International Louie Louie Day. Somehow the B side of a single of Richard Berry gets a day to itself due to its influence on the history of rock and roll. It was first released in April 1957, although it was The Kingsmen’s 1963 version that made it an international hit.

In 1961 the Nazi War Crimes trial of Adolf Eichmann began in Jerusalem. He had been abducted from Argentina  – where he had fled to after the end of WWII – the previous year by Israeli secret agents. He was found guilty in December and sentenced to death.

In 1970 the ill-fated Apollo 13 was launched. It was intended to make the third moon landing; however this was aborted when an oxygen tank exploded two days into the flight, damaging the Service Module. Against what seemed like insuperable odds, the crew made repairs returned safely to Earth.

In 1930 Anton LaVey, Satanist, show-off and all-round nutter was born. Today in 2007 saw the death of writer Kurt Vonnegut—most famous for his surreal and satirical sci-fi novel Slaughterhouse-Five, partially inspired by his experience as a POW in Dresden in the closing months of WWII. He survived the firebombing of the city by hiding in an underground meat locker.

Finally, on to more profound and plaintive matters.

A: Are you sad?
Hili: Yes, because now there are only mice running around here.

In Polish:

Ja: Smutno ci?
Hili: Tak, bo już tylko myszy tu harcują.

[Explanation: Hili is upstairs and no Hania is running around any longer.]

An atheistic stork

April 10, 2017 • 4:34 pm

This stork is in fact more than atheistic; it’s antitheisic, as well as strident, obnoxious, and arrogant. It must be a New Atheist Stork:

h/t: Barry