Ireland’s Same Sex Marriage Referendum: The Losing Side responds.

July 31, 2015 • 2:03 pm

by Grania Spingies

In May this year Ireland voted to extend marriage rights to same-sex couples. The results demonstrated that there is a bizarre disconnect in the Catholic Church. While Bishops and other dignitaries urged a No vote and then denounced the subsequent result; the slam-dunk victory for equality came from the very people the Bishops had been counting on: the average Irish Catholic.

Some of the subsequent responses of those hoping for a No vote have been saner than others.

Prior to the election certain hard-liners amongst the clergy had warned that the Church would no longer conduct the civil part of the marriage ceremony if Ireland voted Yes. It’s not clear to me whether this was intended to be some sort of threat to motivate the general public to vote for the “right” thing; or whether the powers that be were simply overthinking things and thought this would protect them from having to conduct same sex marriages. Either way, they have done an about-face on this position. Considering the demand for civil ceremonies is on the rise in Ireland and church attendance is dwindling, this may have been a very sensible decision on the part of the Bishops. They had little to gain, but there was the prospect of plenty of money and good will to lose.

Then there were the law suits. These were private applications challenging the legality of the Referendum. Both seemed to be weak and spurious claiming that the Referendum was “unfair”. The argument seemed to be based on the fact that more people appeared to be voicing support for a Yes vote and that therefore the No vote was not getting equal coverage.

My favorite allegation: An Post (the Irish post office) issuing a St Valentine’s Day Love stamp with an equality symbol was a “subliminal message” influencing the Irish voter.

 

Both cases lost and their appeals were rejected yesterday.

Last, and almost certainly least, we get to the lonely campaign waged by the so-called Dublin-based “Children’s Protection Society”, whose decades-long battle against modernity and secularism makes liberal use of conspiracy theories and made-up facts; from their 1996 battle against condoms being made available in vending machines, to their rabid pro-life screed (it’s certainly colorful and creative) and in recent days this was handed out at a public shopping center.

https://twitter.com/LeanIago/status/626400576373411841

 

It’s possible that this is simply meant as a punitive rebuke to all those who voted Yes in the Referendum. One can only assume that its authors firmly believe that no-one knows how to use the Internet to verify its spittle-flecked claims.

Either way, they’ve lost. There isn’t going to be a do-over. Only time will tell whether the naysayers will choose to accept that gracefully or whether they will continue to rail against it.

Once more with feeling: final thoughts on Ireland’s Marriage Equality referendum #MarRef

May 29, 2015 • 4:08 pm

by Grania Spingies

Terry Pratchett once wrote:

“Words have power, and one of the things they are able to do is get out of someone’s mouth before the speaker has the chance to stop them.”

Pratchett was right, of course. I don’t think the Vatican can help it much, for Terminal Foot-In-Mouth Disease seems to be afflicting many high-ranking members of the clergy. Hot on the heels of Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin denouncing Ireland’s “Yes” result in its Marriage Equality Referendum as a “disaster for humanity”, we have another senior cardinal, Raymond Burke, pronouncing Ireland as “worse than Pagans and “defying God”.

I’m at risk of appearing obsessive about the subject, so I will try to make my final points and then bow out as gracefully as possible.

First, yes, they really believe this stuff.
 
These men may represent the Old Guard of the Catholic Church, but as Cardinals they can hardly be called radical outliers. Yet their pronouncements are fairly extreme. Whether the issue is born of a desire to arbitrate morality or to maintain a position of power over peoples’ lives; the result is the same: they are aghast at the notion that anybody – let alone a nation of mostly Catholics – could even contemplate same-sex marriage as an issue of equality. The legal rights aspect of the recent Referendum is something that doesn’t appear to register at all in their counter-arguments.

The vote comprehensively rejected the Church position. That ought to cause concern among the clergy, and it clearly does in the case of Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin as it doesn’t bode well for the future of the religion. But even Martin’s comments didn’t show that he might be reconsidering whether his Church’s position was wrong, merely that it had clearly failed to impress its position on its members.
 
Its official position, lest we forget, is this:

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

This quote is not from some hard-line lunatic fringe. It is from the Catholic Catechism on the Vatican’s own website.

This is why weirdly offensive letters were written by Bishops to be read to the faithful of Ireland at Mass during the Sunday Homily. However progressive and liberal the local parish and its priest may be, there is no getting around what the Church actually has to say about homosexuality.

Second, they are so out of touch with people that they have no idea how unintentionally funny and simultaneously insulting they are.
 
I think I can speak for everybody here when I say being called “worse than a pagan” is not the worst thing one can be called in life, nor is it likely to cause most atheists a moment’s pause. However, one has to remember that the overwhelming majority of people voting Yes in the Irish Referendum were Catholics. Those Catholics presumably do have an opinion about being told that they have defied God for ratifying the idea that people are entitled to equal rights regardless of their sexual orientation. These sorts of pronouncements do the Church’s reputation a great deal of harm, so it’s telling that even now the Vatican permits its leading men to tell the world how they really feel rather than instructing them to maintain a dignified silence on an issue where they cannot fail to look archaic, intolerant and downright offensive. Gay Catholics who were hoping for the Church to start moving towards a more progressive and tolerant position must be profoundly disappointed and wary. 

Third, they fear the Internet
 
This is either because the Internet is the plaything of demons, or because it gives every Catholic access to opinions and ideas that may not coincide with those of the Church. With the Vatican going to enormous trouble to put an exorcist into every parish in the world, it is not impossible that it is the former that worries them the most as if the world were literally an episode of Supernatural, only with slightly less subtext.

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Realistically, it is also because ideas have to fight hard for credibility when they are forced to go up against a world of alternative ideas. “Because the book says so” is a pretty useless argument when your opponents also have books that say different things. However, it is pretty hard to exorcise the Internet, so it seems that people will “imbibe this poison that’s out there” and will ask harder questions and make better arguments. Terrible stuff really.
 
Fourth, they have no intention of changing the Church’s position
 
In spite of recent papal soundbites along the lines of “Who am I to judge?”, the official Church position is going to be difficult to alter or undo—assuming of course that those in power have any intention of changing the status quo. Religions are not democracies, and popular vote is not generally an option. Liberal academic Catholics can point to sound analyses of scriptures that show the original texts are not a particularly good source for justifying the intense homophobia displayed in the official Catholic position. Unfortunately, the usual reaction from the Vatican on this sort of issue is to completely ignore the arguments made, or as last resort to point out: “There seems to be a certain element who think that the Synod has the capacity to create some totally new teaching in the Church, which is simply false.”

I’ve never been so proud of Ireland as when the Yes result came in on Saturday 23rd May; even though I think that equality is something that shouldn’t even have been put to the vote in the first place. Nevertheless, Ireland was wonderful in every possible way. It’s not going to change the Catholic Church’s position. Perhaps that doesn’t matter, because Ireland is already changed in the very best way and the battle about morality and equality has already been won. I’ll leave you with this quote from the  heart-warming piece by Irish blogger and journalist Donal O’Keeffe on his experiences canvassing for the Marriage Equality referendum.

Then two young men, walking close together, came toward me from Rory Gallagher Plaza. “Hello,” I said. “Are you voting on Friday?” They gave me the most beautiful smiles and held up their joined hands.
I thought that was a really mean thing to do, to make a grown man cry in public like that.

After the party: what the Yes vote in Ireland means for the Catholic Church and its position on homosexuality

May 27, 2015 • 11:04 am

by Grania Spingies

Quite a lot of headlines around the world announced that Ireland’s voting for equality by endorsing same-sex marriage last week was the dawn of a new era for the position of the Catholic Church in Ireland. The truth of the matter is that it was really just the most recent and most public display of how things have already changed in the country. In spite of a comfortable 87% of the population self-identifying as Catholic and around 90% of Irish citizens having attended a Catholic school for 12 years; the referendum result on the 24th of May was undeniable evidence that the average Irish Catholic pays little to no attention to what the Vatican or its Bishops advise.

In itself, it isn’t really news. Regular church attendance in Ireland is poor (as low as 5% in some areas to 30-40% at best), and getting poorer amongst the younger generations; and has long been a cause for concern amongst Irish priests and bishops. So it is no surprise that whatever does influence the Irish electorate, it probably won’t be the Catholic Church.

In fact, even church-attending Catholics cannot be relied on to listen let alone endorse the official party line. When local parish priests were required to read their Bishop’s letter to their congregation urging them not to support equality for same-sex couples, some of the faithful walked out. One of the attendees said afterwards:

When he started speaking he talked about God and love and I thought it was going in the right direction and that they (the Church) were going to come into the 21st century, but then he read out the letter and I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t in all conscience sit there and listen to it. I never thought I’d be someone that would walk out of Mass but I had to leave. I couldn’t believe we were being told what way to vote. I got into such a temper I couldn’t even stay and listen to it all.

When even the faithful are prepared to publicly shun the Church, it is worth noting. The Archbishop of Ireland, Diarmuid Martin said much the same:

I ask myself, most of these young people who voted yes are products of our Catholic school system for 12 years. I’m saying there’s a big challenge there to see how we get across the message of the Church.

It appears that as many as a third of Irish Catholic clergy may have also voted Yes in the referendum. The Association of Catholic Priests consists of liberal clergy who frequently butt heads with the traditional Church hierarchy on issues that have long been sticking points in the Church such as celibacy, the ordination of women etc. The Irish talk show radio station NewsTalk surveyed 100 priests to poll their views on this.

http://www.newstalk.com/content/000/images/000097/99713_60_news_hub_multi_630x0.jpg

Clearly, there is certainly no unanimous agreement on the issue.

In spite of promising sounds from the pope last year on the subject of homosexuality, as well as the apparent crisis within the Church’s own ranks – or at least the European parts of it; the Vatican appears to be standing by their position and have called the Irish referendum results a “defeat for humanity”.

The Church never ceases to amaze me as an ex-Catholic, at its dogged insistence of ignoring the concerns and interests of its own people as well as the advances in secular morality in the society in which it exists. But it appears that if there is going to be any change, it is not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Talking may happen. Change is going to be a lot less likely. At least the Vatican can find a small measure of support in the lunatic fringe group Westboro Baptist Church, who would no doubt at least agree in principle with their verdict on the referendum. On the other hand, the Church may not really want support from a group that clearly does not get out much, as this exchange with writer J.K. Rowling demonstrates.

wbc

I would almost pay money to see that, cos that would be awesome ¹.

 

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1. Yes, I am using the word awesome, because watching two of the world’s most famousest of wizards take on a grubby band of haters would be, well, thing.

Won’t somebody think of the children

January 5, 2015 • 3:37 pm

by Grania

Okay, it probably doesn’t qualify as the world’s most Sophisticated Theology, but this caused a great deal of snickering in Ireland today. The leaflet apparently is the work of a Christian group campaigning against Ireland’s imminent referendum on same-sex marriage. They had virtually no hope of stopping the inevitable even before this page started hitting the streets and then trending on social media, as there is an extremely comfortable margin of support for it. Now they probably have even less.

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Such heartfelt pleas immediately launched an appropriately-named, harmless, but possibly NSFW hashtag on Twitter and is getting roundly mocked everywhere.

Possibly my favorite:

twi8tter

It is sad that some people still think their religion mandates homophobia, but heartening that the general reaction to religious bigotry in Ireland today is laughter.

 

 

Update on the Irish woman-as-incubator case

December 26, 2014 • 11:13 am

by Grania

An Irish High Court has ruled that the clinically dead pregnant woman who has been kept on life support against the wishes of her family may be removed from those machines. Fortunately no-one wishes to appeal this decision, so her family, who already have suffered the trauma of losing a loved one will now be able to grieve in privacy.

However, much as I am relieved that this grisly case has ended this way, the pronouncements of the court give no comfort or reassurance. This appalling situation, and others like it, will happen again. The Irish government has stated that they do not intend to do anything about the state of abortion law in Ireland, and therefore a teenager raped by an uncle will be forced to bear his baby unless she can find a way out of the country to secure a termination; and a suicidal rape victim will be restrained until she can be delivered by C-section. A woman whose fetus is diagnosed with a severe abnormality will likewise be compelled to bear it or find the means to leave the country.

The outcome in the court is largely thanks to the testimony of the doctors, all seven of whom agreed that there was no prospect for the baby to be born intact. This is in no small part because the body is starting to decompose and infections are setting in. It is almost unthinkable that in a modern country medical staff have to actually contemplate doing something as absurd as maintaining a decomposing corpse for fear of prosecution under the country’s abortion law.

What the lawyers had to say gives one pause:

“Lawyers instructed to represent the interests of the woman argued the treatment should continue. It was argued, given she was a full-time mother devoted to her children, she would have wanted to allow every opportunity for the unborn to get to a position where it would be viable.”

Unless the lawyers managed the world’s first ever successful seance, one can only wonder at how they arrived at that conclusion.

“Lawyers representing the interests of the unborn also argued, given the woman is clinically dead, the unborn’s right to life surpassed her right to a dignified death.”

As grotesque and inhumane as this sounds, legally they are correct. Ireland will continue to be a country where pregnant women can expect the most bizarre, obscene and brutalizing treatment should anything happen that makes them wish to obtain a termination.

This is exactly what happens when a government legislates not for the benefit or well-being of its people, but to conform to religious ideology.

Guest post: How to make a mess of modernity

October 21, 2014 • 6:53 am

Reader Grania Spingies, one of the founders of Atheist Ireland, has kindly consented to write about the blasphemy law that is still on the books in Ireland.

How to Make a Mess of Modernity

by Grania Spingies

Ireland should soon be having a referendum on whether to remove blasphemy as a criminal offence from the statute books. A lot of countries have a few strange old laws that haven’t been used in years, but are still on the books because no government has ever thought to remove them. What makes Ireland a little different is that the blasphemy law in its current form came into effect only in in 2009 in a blur of muddle-headed thinking.

The law is a source of both bemusement and merriment here, as it is in practice unenforceable as written. But the law is also an embarrassment as well as a potential danger. Michael Nugent, chair of Atheist Ireland summed it up succinctly:

“Islamic states at the UN have been citing Ireland’s blasphemy law as evidence that modern European states have no problem with outlawing blasphemy just as Islamic states do. You know you are doing something wrong when Pakistan is citing you as best practice for blasphemy laws.”

That’s Pakistan where the death sentence for a Christian woman found guilty of insulting Mohammed under its blasphemy laws has just been upheld by its High Court.

Most people in Ireland probably do not support the idea blasphemy as a a crime, so with a bit of luck the people of Ireland will vote to have this misguided piece of legislation removed. However, Ireland has a strange history when it comes to legislators trying to appease the Catholic church while simultaneously trying to to enact the will of the people.

The current divorce law is a case in point. When people voted to overturn the ban on divorce in 1995 (yes, 1995) the subsequent law made it legal but laborious and difficult by slapping a four-year moratorium on anyone seeking a divorce.

An even worse mess has been created in the most recent attempt to redress the inhumane abortion ban in Ireland, in which a ham-fisted piece of legislation enacted to ostensibly allow for abortion in cases when it would save the life of a pregnant woman has been shown to be brutal and ineffective even in the most desperate of cases. Women who are raped or have fetuses with fatal abnormalities are still required to remain pregnant or leave the country. Women who are suicidal as a result have to prove to a panel of doctors that they are suicidal enough.
The common theme here is this: the Catholic church opposes abortion under any circumstance.

In recent years, attempts have also been made to redress the bizarre situation in Ireland in which the overwhelming majority of schools are Catholic despite being financed by the tax payer. Needless to say, the Church opposes this as well, and issues statements explaining why secularisation of schools must be resisted:

“Since religion deals with matters of fundamental, ultimate concern it follows that the religious response has a priority in all one’s subsequent reasoning and deliberation.”

In case you think the speaker might be defending all religion, he is not: “To equate all religions is, in a real sense, to empty them of any significance.”

Similar solemn and dire warnings have recently been uttered about the potential excising of blasphemy from the Irish Constitution:

“When law enters the arena of morality, it nearly always runs into difficulties … How far can sexual behaviour or same sex marriage or blasphemy or the right of women for personal autonomy be dealt with by the law, except in the limited sense of protecting the vulnerable?”

I regret I can’t afford refunds for any irony meters that have just exploded.

Unfortunately, Irish politicians seem to be cowed by this sort of talk, perhaps because 84% of the population still call themselves Catholic. However, it is a fact almost universally acknowledged that very few Irish Catholics are truly Catholic these days.

Irish blogger Robert Nielson has painstakingly analysed a number or surveys and polls to show just how un-Catholic the average Irish Catholic is today. His findings are very interesting. Certainly very few Irish Catholics pay any attention to the Church’s teaching on sexuality (only 25%), and significant numbers don’t believe in Hell, sin, heaven, life after death or even God. An amazing 62% don’t believe in transubstantiation—or presumably know that they are in fact required to believe it. The most important figure for our purposes is that only 17% say that they would follow the Church’s teaching when making decisions.

So legislators and politicians who cringe at the thought of offending the Church, and by proxy the voters, are in effect flinching at ghosts and shadows. And every flinch costs the Irish people dearly in terms of human rights abuses.

In Ireland the people continue to move towards a more liberal and secular society. In remains to be seen how long it will take to convince timorous politicians to move along with them.

 

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