Malala versus Ayaan Hirsi Ali: why is one beloved and the other reviled?

November 28, 2015 • 10:00 am

Among atheists vilified by other atheists, a list that of course include Sam Harris, we find an unlikely candidate: Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She is in fact on the list of “The 5 Most Awful Atheists” compiled by the bottom-feeding site Alternet. (The others are Bill Maher, Penn Jillette, S. E. Cupp, and of course Sam.) While I might be persuaded to add Cupp based on her politics (she’s an atheist who “aspires to faith” and has said she’d never vote for an atheist President), I’m sure there are many atheists far more awful than these five, and several of them—including Hirsi Ali—should be on the list of “Most admired atheists.”

I was thinking about why Hirsi Ali is so reviled by atheists and yet Malala Yousafzai (henceforth called “Malala,” as she’s widely known) is not only a hero, but also won the Nobel Prize. And yet they have some notable similarities: both are or were Muslims, both are famous for defending the rights of Muslim women, and both are under threat of murder from enraged Muslims who hate their activism (Malala was in fact shot in the head). I admire both of them, but why is Hirsi Ali reviled and Malala extolled?

One reason, I think, is that Hirsi Ali is strongly anti-Islam—she’s an apostate, while Malala remains a Muslim. Because of the liberal double standard, in which Muslims get a pass because they’re “oppressed” (that is, they’re people of color), Malala’s adherence to faith (one of whose forms almost killed her) isn’t criticized. Hirsi Ali, on the other hand, goes after Islam very often, and that doesn’t sit well with many atheists—again because of the double standard. Since Muslims are supposedly oppressed—although many of them oppress women, gays, apostates, Christians and Yazidis—while Christians are not, it’s far less acceptable among liberals to criticize Islam than to criticize any other faith.

As I believe Sam Harris said, Hirsi Ali should be a poster child for liberals. She’s black (of Somali origin); she had her genitals mutilated when young; she was once a pious Muslim; and, at great personal cost, she fled the faith and an arranged marriage, becoming a refugee in the Netherlands. There she educated herself and worked her way up to being a member of Parliament, only to flee after her collaborator on the film “Submission”, Theo van Gogh, was brutally murdered by an Islamist terrorist, leaving a note warning that she would be next. Hirsi Ali has continued to live under armed protection, now in the U.S., yet continues to speak and write tirelessly about the perfidies of extremist Islam and its oppression of women in particular—including genital mutilation. Now at Harvard, she’s written three excellent books, all of which I’ve read: Nomad, Infidel, and Heretic. The last is her program for the reform of Islam, which, although I see as unrealistic, bespeaks a determination to stop the terrorism through changing the way Muslims perceive the Qur’an and its dictates.

Why is she reviled? There are two reasons. One is simply that she’s married to the right-wing Niall Ferguson and previously worked for a conservative think tank, the American Enterprise Institute. These criticisms are irrelevant, and made only by those who wish to slander her. You can marry someone whose politics don’t jibe with yours (Mary Matalin and James Carville are a notable example), and Hirsi Ali worked at the AEI simply because nobody else offered her a job. (Where were you, progressives?). She’s now, as I said, at Harvard, at the Kennedy School of Government.

More important, she has occasionally said things that were unwise, and also has her words taken out of context. While she’s famously called for “crushing Islam”—and she did—she’s also called for a reform of the faith from within, as in her latest book Heretic, and she’s also made the distinction between hating a religion and hating its adherents as people. For those who go after her for wishing the extinction of Islam, read Heretic before you speak further.

She’s often criticized for having “defended” the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik, but that is a misconception easily dispelled if you read what she said and her explanation for her words (see the post by Dan Arel on this issue). And, unlike Malala, she’s constantly calling out the problems with even moderate Islam, and that doesn’t sit well with some unthinking progressives, who repeatedly see the criticism of faith and faith-inspired acts as “Islamophobia.” I’m convinced that if Hirsi Ali spent her time criticizing right-wing Christians, she’d be far more admired.

Hirsi Ali has experienced the same kind of atheist-shaming as has Sam Harris: a few words, phrases, and thoughts are lifted from their work, and then used to denigrate their whole career, their whole body of work. I’m also convinced that if people really read their books and didn’t concentrate on such sound bites, the denigration would be considerably tempered. But people are either lazy don’t want to do that work, or they’re determined to dislike these people for other reasons, and won’t be swayed by the facts. I’m pretty sure that many people who attack Hirsi Ali haven’t read a single one of her three books. And I’m convinced that some prominent atheists who attack them are motivated in part by jealousy of their fame and their effectiveness.

Weigh a few phrases, even poorly-considered ones, against Hirsi Ali’s entire life and body of work. Again, she’s a black woman who worked her way out of fundamentalist Islam into a progressive point of view and political success, and who fights tirelessly for women’s rights. And have a look at the short (11-minute) film she wrote, “Submission,” which resulted in director Theo van Gogh’s death and her having to live under constant protection from fantatics sworn to kill her. I find the film immensely moving. I’m sure she knew what she would face when the movie became public.

Nobody is perfect, and as one commenter said on my recent post about Salon and Sam Harris, some nonbelievers tend to denigrate other atheists by quote-mining: taking words out of context without having read or understood (willfully or not) those words as they were intended. And, of course, all of us say things that don’t quite convey what we mean, are clumsy in our thoughts (that’s why I don’t tw**t), or are simply unthinking or make bad judgments. For those acts we can be faulted, but the tendency of atheists to denigrate other atheists by quote mining, and failing to judge someone’s work in its entirety, is an act of either laziness or mendacity. It’s time for atheists to get some perspective before we start eating our own.

_________

Note: I’ve defended Hirsi Ali previously on this site, but wanted to continue the discussion.

Caturday felid trifecta: pub cats, distillery cats, and a semi-salacious cat tee shirt

November 28, 2015 • 9:00 am

Reader Steve U sent me this report from the BBC about a cat pub, along with this note:

Luke Daniels runs The Bag of Nails in Bristol, South-West England. The pub has plenty of beer and ale to choose from, and 15 cats.

According to the BBC report, visitors love it (my emphasis):

“It’s my dream – alcohol and cats combined.”

Bethan Ingram has journeyed 60 miles from her home in Cowbridge, south Wales, to visit the Bag of Nails pub in Bristol.

Attracted by publicity about its unlikely status as a “cat pub”, the moggie-mad 24-year-old is here for a day out – and has not been disappointed.

“I love it,” she said. “A beautiful cat even greeted us on our way in. It’s so nice in here.”

Another first-time visitor, 22-year-old Rachel Smith, from Hereford, agreed.

“It’s my day off and I really love cats and wanted to see the pub,” she smiled, as two kittens wrestled on the bar.

“It’s cute and quirky, and I’m definitely hoping for cat cuddles.”

Apparently cats are legal in British pubs, but d*gs are, properly not allowed in The Bag of Nails!

_86787979_luke

However, it’s the pub’s 15 cats that are proving to be the big draw. And if that number seems a little high, there used to be as many as 24 roaming about the bar.

“We had a lot of cats when I was young and I thought it was the best thing ever. But recently it got a bit out of hand,” Luke laughed. “So we gave some away.”

The cats that are left variously go by names such as Salvador, Absinthe, Pompidou and Caligula, and “apart from the odd, external influence” are all descended from Malcolm, a British short-haired male silver tabby, and solid black female Beresford, named after a former landlord.

They’re all one big family,” Luke said.

_86788476_1617857_668410269893477_1459044970_o

As the landlord of an independently-run free house, Luke says he has “no brewery and no boss” and the city council are fine with the way he manages it “so long as the rent is paid”.

And he said a recent inspection by environmental health inspectors earned a five-star rating, mainly because no food is cooked on the premises.

Even though the pub’s various cats slink past the pints of drinkers at the bar, there is a distinct lack of beer spillage.

Luke said: “Cats are very elegant in the way they walk. Very occasionally drinks have been knocked over, but it’s just not an issue.”

A free house! If they carry Landlord, I’m going to take up residence.

_86773142_10270396_687465391321298_3854180663446839971_n

Regarding the viral concept of cat cafes, the publican said this;

Luke nearly coughed up a hairball as he described the concept as “deeply flawed”.

“It’s treating cats as a commodity and they are not. They are individual creatures with minds of their own,” he said.

“I know the media has portrayed us as a ‘cat pub’, but we just happen to have a lot of cats living upstairs that like to come down into the bar from time to time. There’s a big difference.”

In the meantime, Luke said he would continue welcoming the spate of new punters any media coverage attracts.

_86773148_img_2028

The first reader who gets themselves photographed in The Bag of Nails, along with one of the cats and a pint, will get an autographed copy of WEIT with a cat (drinking a pint) drawn in it.

*******

Regarding cats and alcohol, we have a report from DNAinfo of a cat guarding a local Chicago microbrewery, guarding the grain from rats.

Meet Venkman, Raymond, Egon and Gozer — Empirical Brewery’s “Ghostbusters”-named feral cat colony, adopted in December through the Tree House Humane Society’s Cats at Work program.

“If a brewer says they don’t have rats, they’re lying,” said Bill Hurley, owner of Empirical, 1801 W. Foster Ave.

Rodents are attracted to the extremely high-quality grain that breweries stock by the truckload. To the rats, it’s like a “giant block of cheese,” Hurley said.

Empirical hired an exterminator to pay regular visits to the brewery, but still found itself throwing money out the window in the form of gnawed-on bags of barley.

Enter Tree House, which has moved 264 feral cats within Chicago and 130 in the suburbs, according to Jenny Schlueter, manager of Cats at Work.

Here’s Venkman:

Screen Shot 2015-11-28 at 6.23.27 AM

She’s placed cats in factories, barns, a hotel loading dock, behind restaurants and in backyards across the city.

“Rats can smell their predators,” Schlueter explained. “Quite honestly, house cats will also keep rodents away.”

Smart rats move along, she noted, and the “ones that don’t get it” wind up being hunted. While some folks become squeamish at the thought of cats hunting rats, Schlueter said she finds it more humane than poison or traps — and not to mention it’s part of the natural circle of life.

Here’s where the brewery cats live:

extralarge
Photo: DNAinfo/Patty Wetli

A warehouse like Empirical’s is ideal for feral cats — kind of like a real indoor home but not so confining that it stresses the cats out, Schlueter said.

Noting that Tree House has struggled to convince men that cuddling up to kittens can still come across as macho, Schlueter is pleased with the way Empirical has embraced its colony.

“We’re so grateful to them,” she said. “They’re good role models for guys.”

Well, I’ll ignore that sexist remark, and simply refer you to an Instagram site that’s collected pictures of cats working in distilleries, breweries, pubs, and wine bars throughout the world. Lots of nice photos there, and here’s one from the Cork State 11 distillery in Clavernack, New York:

Screen Shot 2015-11-28 at 6.29.51 AM

*******

Finally, because I feel like a teenager today, I present you with a nice tee-shirt and the results you get when you wear it:

tumblr_nlg0o5Qsxp1r2alapo1_500 (1)

I didn’t realize for a while that that’s a real kitten in the bottom photo. I’ll have to try wearing that shirt. . .

h/t: Steve U., Grania

 

Readers’ wildlife photographs

November 28, 2015 • 7:34 am

We have birds and arthropods today, the latter from reader Mark Sturtevant:

A female crane fly (Tipula sp.), [I am reasonably sure of the genus but there are tons of species that look pretty much like this]. This large insect was so heavily gravid with eggs that it could barely fly. She had a long way to go to lay eggs in water, as the nearest such supply was over a half mile away.

1 Crane fly

I love the green eyes of this species of Square headed wasp (possibly Tachytescrassus). If so, then this species burrows in the ground and provisions it with paralyzed grasshoppers.

2 Square headed wasp

A Slaty Skimmer dragonfly, with the mysterious name: Libellula incesta. Probably a story in there somewhere.

3Dragonfly2

Hatching Leaf-footed bugs (Leptoglossussp.). The egg shells were iridescent gold. Leaf-footed bugs have a defensive smell and taste, and I suppose that explains the aposematic coloration of these youngsters. Their synchronized hatching may provide them with a degree of group protection. These common insects will gradually expand their hind tibia into expanded ‘leaves’ from which they are named. I am not sure of the use of that structure, but since they are generally camouflaged by then perhaps it adds to that effect.

4.Hatching Leaf footed bugs

JAC: To show the adult, I’ve added a picture of the Florida leaf-footed bug [Leptoglossus phyllopus] from Backyard Beasts:

bbeast9-11

Reader John Harshman supplemented our Thanksgiving photo of the ocellated turkey with some other photos, including the gross-looking caruncles (what function do they serve?):

Here are some ocellated turkey photos [Meleagris ocellata], all taken at Chan Chich in Belize, where they are dirt common. The first one really shows off the caruncles (which is the technical term for those colorful warts).

IMG_2625

IMG_2626

IMG_2627

Saturday: Hili dialogue (and Leon lagniappe)

November 28, 2015 • 4:41 am

On this date in 1925, the Grand Ole Opry, Mother of Country Stars, started its radio broadcasts in Nashville, Tennessee, and, four years later, Motown magnate Berry Gordy, Jr. was born. It’s another overcast and chilly day in Chicago, though not as bad as yesterday, when, in near-freezing temperatures and drizzling rain, the battery of the Ceiling Catmobile chose to die in a strip mall where I had gone to get nomz. Only two hours later, with a new battery, was I on my way, frozen and drenched. But that’s a First World problem; let us instead give thanks that The Furry Princess of Poland is thinking deep thoughts:

Hili: How time flies.
A: What do you mean?
Hili: Today is yesterday’s tomorrow.

P1030647

In Polish:
Hili: Jak ten czas leci.
Ja: Co masz na myśli?
Hili: Dziś już jest wczorajsze jutro.

And meanwhile in Wrocklawek, tabby Leon is fretting about his appearance (note the bow tie):

Leon: I’m not sure I’m elegant enough. I would prefer a red bow tie.

12310036_1055422697811664_8429019995396636406_o

Mr. Deity and his All-Knowingness

November 27, 2015 • 2:45 pm

Brian Keith Dalton has become God again in the latest episode of his Mr. Deity series. This time he shows what it’s like to be All Knowing, and how horrible it would be to hang around someone who’s omniscient. I like the bit where Jesus asks him if he finally understands the Trinity. At 4:30 the bit ends and Dalton does three minutes of self promotion and asking for Patreon-age—an ad that goes on a bit too long. But, to be fair, I’ll direct you to his Patreon page: here.

The Princeton dilemma: what do we do about Woodrow Wilson?

November 27, 2015 • 1:20 pm

If you’ve followed these pages, you’ll know that, among the welter of college protests, student activists at Princeton have asked for expunging the name of a Princeton icon, Woodrow Wilson, from its infrastructure. Wilson was not only president of Princeton, but President of the United States, and apparently a progressive one. But he was regressive in an important respect: he was an unrepentant racist, and as President took deliberate actions to disenfranchise black government employees. Because of this, the protesting students at Princeton, many of them black or minority, have asked for changes in the name of the school’s elite Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, of its residential part, Wilson College, and for a public admission of Wilson’s racist legacy. (The New York Times reported on this issue on November 22.)

In a major editorial three days ago, “The case against Woodrow Wilson at Princeton,” the Times‘s editorial staff took sides with the protestors. Without discussing Wilson’s positive accomplishments as President of both Princeton and the U.S., the editorial concluded:

In a few short years, Mr. [historian Eric] Yellin writes, the Wilson administration had established federal discrimination as a national norm.

None of this mattered in 1948 when Princeton honored Wilson by giving his name to what is now called the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. Black Americans were still viewed as nonpersons in the eyes of the state, and even the most strident bigots were held up to public adulation. This is certainly not the case today.

The overwhelming weight of the evidence argues for rescinding the honor that the university bestowed decades ago on an unrepentant racist.

The counterargument, one made by my colleage Geoffrey Stone at the University of Chicago Law School, is that Wilson was a man of his time, and most white men of his time were, by and large, also racist. In a piece at PuffHo, “Woodrow Wilson, Princeton University, and the battles we choose to fight,” Stone not only argues that we should judge Wilson by the mores of his time, but also enumerates Wilson’s progressive contributions:

During his presidency of Princeton, Wilson renewed and reinvigorated the institution. In only eight years, he increased the size of the faculty from 112 to 174, paying special attention to both teaching and scholarly excellence.

Wilson also made progressive innovations in the curriculum, raised admissions standards to move Princeton away from its historic image as an institution dedicated only to students from the upper crust, and took strides to invigorate the university’s intellectual life by replacing the traditional norm of the “gentleman’s C” with a course of serious and rigorous study. As Wilson told alumni, his goal was “to transform thoughtless boys . . . into thinking men.”

Wilson also attempted (unsuccessfully because of the resistance of alumni) to curtail the influence of social elites by abolishing the upper-class eating clubs, appointed the first Jew and the first Catholic to the faculty, and helped liberate the university’s board of trustees from the grip of tradition-bound and morally-conservative Presbyterians. Given that record of achievement, it’s easy to understand why Princeton has chosen to recognize Woodrow Wilson as one of its greatest and most influential presidents.

. . . As President, Wilson oversaw the passage of a range of progressive legislation previously unparalleled in American history. Among the bills he signed into law were the Federal Reserve Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Adamson Act, which for the first time imposed a maximum eight-hour day for railroad workers, and the Keating-Owen Act, which (before it was held unconstitutional by the-then-very-conservative Supreme Court) curtailed child labor. Samuel Gompers, the most visible labor leader of the time, described Wilson’s achievements as a “Magna Carta” for the rights of the workingman.

Among his other accomplishments, Wilson, over bitter opposition from anti-Semites, appointed the first Jewish member of the Supreme Court – Louis Brandeis, and offered his Fourteen Points and his strong support of the League of Nations in the hope of promoting international peace and averting future world wars.

Unlike the Times, though, Stone also looks at the other side, arguing that “Wilson’s support of racial segregation was deplorable.” Let me add here that Stone is a progressive himself, a liberal, and someone who’s been mentioned as a possible Supreme Court Justice, though that’s unlikely given the relatively young age of conservatives currently on the court. Whatever you may say about Stone—and I’m an admirer—he’s neither racist nor reactionary. And yet, he claims, “Wilson should be judged by Princeton, as he has been judged by historians, not only by the moral standards of today, but by his achievements and his values in the setting of his own time.” If we judged Wilson solely by today’s standards, then tributes to many other famous American figures would also need to be removed from the public arena:

After all, if Woodrow Wilson is to be obliterated from Princeton because his views about race were backward and offensive by contemporary standards, then what are we to do with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and Andrew Jackson, all of whom actually owned slaves? What are we to do with Abraham Lincoln, who declared in 1858 that “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” and that “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people”?

What are we to do with Franklin Roosevelt, who ordered the internment of 120,000 persons of Japanese descent? With Dwight Eisenhower, who issued an Executive Order declaring homosexuals a serious security risk? With Bill Clinton, who signed the Defense of Marriage Act? With Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, both of whom opposed the legalization of same-sex marriage?

And what are we to do with Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who once opined in a case involving compulsory sterilization that “three generations of imbeciles is enough”? With Leland Stanford, after whom Stanford University is named who, as governor of California, lobbied for the restriction of Chinese immigration, explaining to the state legislature in 1862 that “the presence of numbers of that degraded and distinct people would exercise a deleterious effect upon the superior race”?

And what are we do with all of the presidents, politicians, academic leaders, industrial leaders, jurists, and social reformers who at one time or another in American history denied women’s right to equality, opposed women’s suffrage, and insisted that a woman’s proper place was “in the home”? And on and on and on.

Not having any personal connection to Princeton (other than my affection and respect for its current president), I don’t really care one way or the other whether Princeton erases Woodrow Wilson from its history—except to the extent that such an action would inevitably invite an endless array of similar claims that would both fundamentally distort the realities of our history and distract attention from the real issues of deeply-rooted injustice in our contemporary society that we need to take seriously today. This, quite frankly, is not one of them.

As Stone implies, women could make an equally strong case for the removal of names of figures who would, by today’s lights, be seen as misogynistic or sexist.

I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but I can see points on both sides. Were I a black student, I’m not sure I’d be happy being around the name “Woodrow Wilson” given his racism, which was not only deep, but on which he was able as President to act, ruining (as the Times editorial recounts) the lives of many black people. On the other hand, if we’re to judge historical figures in light of today’s mores, and (as Steve Pinker shows) those mores have grown ever more liberal, inclusive, and progressive, then you’re going to have to completely revamp our institutions. Do we take Lincoln off the five-dollar bill and slaveholder George Washington off the single? Do we blast the face of Thomas Jefferson off Mount Rushmore? How racist or sexist must someone be before we bow to the demands of the offended that we efface them from history, or at least from public adulation?

If Wilson was simply a racist who expressed his views in public, I’d side with Stone. But he actively injured black people through his racism, and that’s different. On the other hand, Jefferson, Washington, Jackson (on the $20 bill), and many “founding fathers” actually kept black people in bondage, which is even worse.

So I throw this one to the readers: should Princeton get rid of the honorifics bestowed on its former President? And how far should we judge historical figures and their legacy according to our ever-expanding circle of morality?

A disproof of objective or “scientifically based” morality

November 27, 2015 • 10:45 am

I’ve made this point before, but have revisited it after my recent post on animal suffering and how we shouldn’t ignore it. When thinking about how to judge human versus animal suffering, I realized that there’s no objective way to do this, and that when trying to figure out how to treat animals, we must ultimately rely on subjective judgment. While science can help us make such judgments, it cannot give us objective answers, even in principle.

For example, is it right to do animal experimentation on primates? In so doing, primates and other mammals are injured or suffer, and yet there may be some ultimate benefit for humanity (this, of course, isn’t guaranteed). How many mouse lives or monkey lives are worth one human life, especially when animal testing doesn’t always provide cures? We think it’s okay to swat mosquitoes or kill a nonvenomous snake that’s simply annoying or scaring us, but we don’t think it’s right to kill a dog who’s barking at us. Where do you draw the line?

Or if, like Sam Harris, you think that “well being” is the objective criterion for morality, so that the most moral act is the one that maximizes overall well being, then your difficulty becomes this: how do you determine the relative weights of animal well being versus human well being? Science can’t answer such a question because we have no idea how to quantify well being among species, which depends on knowing how an animal subjectively perceives and values its existence. (I also question how science can judge the relative weights of different kinds of human well being, but I’ll leave that aside.) Is it immoral to swat a fly only because it’s annoying you with its buzzing? Is it immoral to kill a harmless spider simply because you don’t like spiders?

I am still traumatized at having seen a golf-course employee, several decades ago, flooding mole tunnels with water, and then killing the moles who came out by whacking them with a wrench. I’ll never forget that sight, which made me weep. Is the increased well-being of golfers worth more than the reduced well being of the whacked moles?

But it gets more serious when you come to food animals. Is it immoral to eat animals? How do you measure their reduced well being at losing their lives versus our increased well being when we eat a nice chicken or steak? Is it immoral to eat eggs from battery chickens? If so— because you weigh their suffering as heavier than our increased well being—then what about humanely raised animals? They may have a nicer life and be killed more humanely, too, but don’t they value their own lives? They’ve evolved, after all, to avoid death, and yet we kill them. To me that means that they don’t want to die, but we don’t know what “want” really means in an animal whose brains we can’t fathom.

I see no way to arrive at objective answers to these questions, for even in principle I can’t see how one can give relative values to the well being of different species. Of course one could punt and say that morality applies only to humans, but we know that’s untrue. We prosecute people who torture cats and dogs, and we have, by and large, stopped using animal testing for cosmetics. The latter is an explicit judgment that animal suffering outweighs the increased well being produced by applying blush or mascara.

Now I admit that I’m not a trained philosopher (though I do have one paper in a real journal to my credit), and perhaps others have considered this question in light of the notion that we can have objective moral truths. I’ve read Peter Singer, who’s told me personally that he thinks there are such truths, but I’ve never asked him to tell me how one can objectively arrive at his notion (which I share) that “animal liberation” is a very important cause.

In the end, like all morality, animal “rights” comes down to issues of preference and subjective judgment. Science and empirical observation can feed into those issues, but at bottom it’s still subjective.  I agree with Sam that in general our moral judgments, at least in our own species, correspond to utilitarian notions of overall well being, but I don’t agree that one can make such judgments objectively.

My title may reflect a bit of hubris, but I invite readers to tell me where I’m wrong.