Friday: Hili dialogue

May 5, 2017 • 6:30 am

Well, we’ve nearly made it through another work week, and this was a tough one. It’s now Friday, May 5, 2017:  Cinco de Mayo, a day celebrated in Mexico from the day in 1862 when Mexican Army’s beat the French at the Battle of Puebla, a lovely town that I’ll revisit in November. Because of that, it’s also National Enchilada Day. Please eat one of these:

Hungry?

On this day in 1821, Napoleon died on the remote island of St. Helena. Fourteen years later, the first railway in continental Europe commenced service between Brussels and Mechelen in Belgium. In 1891, Carnegie Hall (then known as The Music Hall) opened in New York City, with, of all people, Tchaikovsky as the guest conductor. In 1904, Cy Young, playing for Boston, pitched the first “perfect game” of baseball in the modern era (nobody reaching first base), defeating the Philadelphia Athletics. On May 5, 1920, Sacco and Vanzetti were arrested for robbery and murder, and were electrocuted seven years later. Both were anarchists, and at least one was actually guilty. Five years later, John Scopes was arrested in Dayton, Tennessee for teaching human evolution,  a violation of the Butler Act that led to the famous “Monkey Trial” in which Scopes was convicted. (The conviction was later set aside because the judge decided the $100 fine rather than the jury.) On may 5, 1961, Alan Shepherd became the first astronaut to reach outer space, though he didn’t orbit the Earth. And in 1981, IRA member Bobby Sands, 27, died in prison after 66 days of a hunger strike.

Notables born on this day include Søren Kierkegaard (1813), Karl Marx (1818), James Beard (1903), Tammy Wynette (1942), and Michael Palin (1943). Those who died on this day include Napoleon (see above) and Bret Harte (1902). Meanwhile in Dobrzyn, Hili isn’t quite yet ready for her closeup:

Hili: Don’t take the picture yet!
A: Why not?
Hili: Think of the public. I like it when Cyrus is looking up with envy.
In Polish:
Hili: Zaczekaj z tym zdjęciem!
Ja: Na co?
Hili: Na publiczność, lubię jak Cyrus patrzy w górę z zazdrością.

And here’s Gus in “Cause and Effect:

Lagniappe: From reader Diane G., a tw**t related to one of our favorite Gary Larson cartoons:

Obamacare repeal passes House on close vote, still dicey in the Senate

May 4, 2017 • 3:26 pm

I am amazed that anybody thinks the Republicans’ healthcare act is superior to “Obamacare,” and it may be that a lot of Americans will discover that hard truth, including those who mistakenly voted for Trump on the assumption that he’d improve their healthcare.

This afternoon the House voted to replace Obamacare with the Republican plan. The vote was 217-213, with no Democrats voting “aye” and 20 Republicans doing the right thing by voting against the bill, Yes, Obamacare has problems, but scrapping it and starting with a vastly inferior plan was not the solution.  As far as I can see, the Republicans see this bill as a symbolic repudiation of Obama’s legacy, not as something designed to help the average American. But since when have Republicans cared about that?

I’m hoping that Senate Republicans have more guts and defeat the “American Health Care Act”; there’s a very real chance that will happen.

You can find all the votes here; but here are the 20 Republican representatives with integrity:

Here are House Democrats taunting Republicans after the bill’s passage with an old song. Remember it? It was from 1969.

National Post: Atheism is hurting the West

May 4, 2017 • 1:00 pm

Conrad Black is an ex-con who once owned a newspaper empire (including the Torygraph) and then spent three years in prison for mail fraud and obstruction of justice. He apparently found religion in jail and has engaged in bashing atheists ever since, We met him in the atheist-bashing mode in 2015, and he hasn’t gotten any better. He now pushes his delusions in Canada’s National Post.

In a 2015 column, he evinced a Plantinga-ian view that the reality of God was simply self-evident:

Intellectually, the problem is that religion is essentially reasonable and atheism is unreasonable and the consequences of the militancy of contemporary atheism are not only unreasonable but offensive to reason. Few things in our murky lives could be more obvious and indisputable than that there must be some force in the cosmos that causes spiritual insight, authenticated miracles, and is able to grasp the notion of the timeless, the limitless, and the fact that at some point in our past there was some kind of creation.

Now he continues in this vein with a newish column, “I put this as simply as possible: Many atheists are excellent, but atheism itself is hurting the West“. Now my first response on reading the title was this: “Even if it is hurting the West, and I believe the opposite, that says nothing about the existence of gods!” But Black still thinks that the existence of the Abrahamic God is self evident, and, moreover, that atheists, by reaping the benefits of a “Judeo-Christian civilization” without accepting God, are simply parasites on society.

First, Black reprises his evidence for God:

Because there was so much misunderstanding and overwrought, misplaced hysteria from some readers, I will wind this up by restating key points with mind-numbing simplicity. We have no idea how the universe, or any version of the life and context we know, originated. We have no idea of the infinite, of what was before the beginning or is beyond any spatial limits we can imagine, even with the great exploratory progress of science. Miracles sometime occur and people do sometimes have completely inexplicable insights that are generally described as spiritual. No sane and somewhat experienced person disputes any of this. But there is a cyber-vigilante squad of atheist banshees that swarm like bats over such comments and are hyperactive philistines better responded to with pest control measures than logical argument.

My contention is that it is more logical and reasonable to attribute these phenomena to the existence of a supernatural force or intelligence than either to deny that they exist, or to take refuge in the faith that they are merely aspects of our environment that we will eventually understand as we explore our planet and the contiguous universe.

He’s equating scientific ignorance with the existence of God: the classic “god of the gaps” argument. We don’t know what the first form of life was like, either. Does that prove God? And thanks to Cantor and others, we do indeed have an idea of the infinite. As for miracles and spiritual insights that would convince a skeptic of God, Black doesn’t give any. He rejects Hume’s argument for the dubious “miracles” that he doesn’t mention, and fails to note the many “spiritual insights” gained by people on drugs like LSD or ayahuasca. Are those evidence for God, too?

According to Black, this is how atheists are free-riding on the accomplishments of religion:

Of course, in our society, most people, including most atheists, are reasonably honest and decent and get through their lives without horrible outbursts of sociopathic behaviour. I did write that those atheists who purport to espouse the Judeo-Christian life without admitting the probability of some supernatural force are essentially enjoying the benefits of Judeo-Christian civilization while denying even the least onerous definition of its basic tenets. Thus do schism and hypocrisy raise their hoary heads.

As atheists renounce the roots of our civilization, they are troublesome passengers, and are apt to be less integral defenders of the West in time of challenge.

First of all, although many of our ancestors were religious, that doesn’t mean that our society is a “Judeo-Christian civilization”. That means that Jews and Christians helped build it, but it doesn’t mean that all the precepts of society come from religion. Many of America’s founders, for instance, were either atheists or deists who explicitly wanted to take religion out of government. And many of the modern scientists who contributed to our well being were avowed atheists.  If there is no evidence to skeptics for a god, why must they “admit the probability of some supernatural force”? If atheists don’t, are we to be deprived of our social benefits?: “No soup for you, Heathen!”

I won’t need much more space to dissect this befuddled curmudgeon, whose presence in the Post I find baffling. He also makes the familiar claim that without God there’s no basis for morality:

I also wrote that the atheists are becoming steadily more aggressive, more generally dismissive of the supernatural tradition, while swaddling themselves in commendable precepts that are generally variants of the Golden Rule and other such formulations. These are fine, but they will not in themselves assure a norm of social conduct and they have already led to the  ghastly enfeeblement of moral relativism. Alternative scenarios emerge of equal worthiness, as right and wrong are concepts that are diluted by being severed from any original legitimacy. All schools of behavioural conduct compete on a level playing field and disorder gradually ensues. Man is deemed to be perfectible, the traditional matrix for authoritarianism. Where there is deemed to be no God the classic human deities — or Robespierre’s Supreme Being, the Nazi Pagan-Wagnerian leaders, or the Stalinist incarnation of the toiling Slavonic masses — replace deities. Anyone who imagines that our legal system, unto itself, will assure acceptable social conduct has had little experience of it. The entire apparatus of our society of laws has degenerated into a 360 degree cartel operated by and almost exclusively for the benefit of the legal profession.

Well, you already know the argument against the “original legitimacy” of morality derived from religion. It’s threefold. First, Plato’s Euthyphro Argument. Does Black believe that we should stone to death those who work on the Sabbath because God said so, or do the same to kids who curse their parents? If not, why not? For the same reasons that underlie the second point: every believer picks and chooses their morality from scripture or dogma, which means there are pre-scriptural moral feelings that dictate our actions. The Golden Rule has arisen many times in history independent of religion, and had religion not arisen I’m sure someone would have adumbrated it. Further, even if it were true that people need a god so much that they accept Hitlers and Stalins as gods if they give up on conventional faith, that still says nothing about the existence of God. All it says is that some people need a godlike presence in their lives. Or does Black even really care whether or not people accept God, so long as it’s good for society?

Finally: Scandinavia, including Iceland. Those are godless countries full of moral people. I suppose Black would argue that their morality must come from their religious background, but that would ignore the recent innovations in morality, like gay marriage, that came independent of religion. Read Pinker’s The Better Angels of our Nature for more examples. If there were a jail for intellectual miscreants, Black would be in it.

Again. why does the Post give this guy space to make such poor arguments?

h/t: Mark

Thursday felid I: Cat rescues on Dublin river

May 4, 2017 • 12:30 pm

I’m still feeling a bit black-doggish, so how about a felid? I’ll post about the odious Conrad Black in a short while.

Here’s a tweet found by Grania. How lovely!

And if that’s not enough: here’s the story of a cat being rescued from the Liffey last year:

NY Times hires science disser as op-ed writer

May 4, 2017 • 10:00 am

Late last month, the New York Times hired conservative Bret Stephens as an op-ed writer. Only 43 years old, Stephens had previously worked at the Wall Street Journal, where he won a Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 2013.

While Stephens isn’t an out-and-out denialist of global warming, he’s always tried to minimize its potential effects on our planet. As Physics Today wrote in 2013:

As recently as November 2011, in a column headlined ‘The great global warming fizzle,’ Stephens described ‘the case of global warming’ as a ‘system of doomsaying prophecy and faith in things unseen’ that, like religion, ‘is susceptible to the earthly temptations of money, power, politics, arrogance and deceit.’

Stephens doesn’t appear to reject outright the data on temperature rise, or even the finding that humans are involved. But he energetically mocks warnings as hysterical alarmism. In a 2008 column he wrote with a smirk:

“What manner the catastrophe might take isn’t yet clear, but the scenarios are grim: The climate crisis is getting worse faster than anticipated; global warming will cause refugee crises and destabilize entire nations…. And so on.”

In December 2009, he published on the incident that he and others framed with the loaded term climategate. He charged that it involved ‘some of the world’s leading climate scientists working in tandem to block freedom of information requests, blackball dissenting scientists, manipulate the peer-review process, and obscure, destroy or massage inconvenient temperature data.’ That column carried the headline ‘Climategate: Follow the money’ and the subhead ‘Climate change researchers must believe in the reality of global warming just as a priest must believe in the existence of God.’

They added that Stephens “has a record of indicting climate scientists through mockery.”

And indeed, in his very first column,”Climate of complete certainty” (April 28), Stephens continues this gambit, mocking not anthropogenic climate change, which he actually admits, but science itself, which, he says, has given us false certainty about the phenomenon. This is a confusing message, for it gives denialist readers some ammunition not just against climate change, but against the science that has ferreted out its existence and cause. Climate scientists, he argues, have, like other scientists with convincing data, “descen[ded] to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.”  In other words, he’s indicting science for being arrogant and giving a false idea of certainty. And just as surely, that gives ammunition and hope to denialists.

First, his admissions:

The science is settled. The threat is clear. Isn’t this one instance, at least, where 100 percent of the truth resides on one side of the argument?

and

None of this is to deny climate change or the possible severity of its consequences.

But then he goes on to undercut both the nature of the threat and the “certainty” of science itself using these arguments (quotes from the article are in quotation marks):

  • Polls and experts were virtually certain that Hillary Clinton would win the election, showing the fallacy of certainty.

    “When Bill Clinton suggested to his wife’s advisers that, considering Brexit, they might be underestimating the strength of the populist tide, the campaign manager, Robby Mook, had a bulletproof answer: The data run counter to your anecdotes.

    That detail comes from “Shattered,” Jonathan Allen and Amie Parnes’s compulsively readable account of Clinton’s 2016 train wreck. Mook belonged to a new breed of political technologists with little time for retail campaigning and limitless faith in the power of models and algorithms to minimize uncertainty and all but predict the future.

    There’s a lesson here. We live in a world in which data convey authority. But authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris. From Robert McNamara to Lehman Brothers to Stronger Together, cautionary tales abound.

We ought to know this by now, but we don’t. Instead, we respond to the inherent uncertainties of data by adding more data without revisiting our assumptions, creating an impression of certainty that can be lulling, misleading and often dangerous. Ask Clinton.

With me so far? Good. Let’s turn to climate change.”

The analogy to Clinton is flawed: scientists don’t take polls, we make testable predictions about climate, our “data” don’t consist of asking people what they’ll do (some of whom have motivations to lie), and the effects of global warming are already clear. Yes, polls can be wrong, and so can science, but that says nothing about whether the data supporting climate change are convincing. They are (see here, for instance). He adduces no evidence against climate change, but simply is telling readers to be deeply suspicious of science, as if science were the equivalent of a political poll.

  • Climate scientists falsely convey an attitude of complete certainty, demonizing opponents as lunatics and moral inferiors.

“Anyone who has read the 2014 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change knows that, while the modest (0.85 degrees Celsius, or about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit) warming of the earth since 1880 is indisputable, as is the human influence on that warming, much else that passes as accepted fact is really a matter of probabilities. That’s especially true of the sophisticated but fallible models and simulations by which scientists attempt to peer into the climate future. To say this isn’t to deny science. It’s to acknowledge it honestly.

By now I can almost hear the heads exploding. They shouldn’t, because there’s another lesson here — this one for anyone who wants to advance the cause of good climate policy. As Revkin wisely noted, hyperbole about climate “not only didn’t fit the science at the time but could even be counterproductive if the hope was to engage a distracted public.”

Let me put it another way. Claiming total certainty about the science traduces the spirit of science and creates openings for doubt whenever a climate claim proves wrong. Demanding abrupt and expensive changes in public policy raises fair questions about ideological intentions. Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts.”

First, no scientist ever says they have the absolute truth. A spirit of openness toward conflicting data is in fact part of the true spirit of science (of course we’re humans, and that’s not the spirit of some scientists!). We always operate on probabilities, making the best inference we can from data. Yes, the data supporting climate change may be wrong, but the likelihood of that is very small. We do not have “total certainty”, but we have enough assurance to begin to take the problem very seriously and try to do something about it. (Stephens cavalierly dismisses climate-change models as “sophisticated and fallible”, as if they are surely wrong.)  But what is the “hyperbole” that Stephens is talking about?

And really, “ideological intentions” underlie our desire to prevent the destruction of our planet? Why would scientists have a bias against finding climate change and an ideology that prompts them to lie about its possible disasterous effects? How would we benefit from that? As for making “few converts”, nearly half of all Americans already accept anthropogenic global warming, not a bad figure given that its disastrous effects aren’t yet clearly visible to the average person.

Further, surely the opposition to global warming is not based on scientists’ supposed “moral superiority”—no more than opposition to evolution (as strong in America as is opposition to climate change) does not rest on evolutionists acting “morally superior.” It’s based on religion; just as climate change is based on secular faith or wish-thinking that “everything’s all right.”

The parallels between Stephens’s attitude and Americans’ denial of evolution becomes clear at the end when he makes his last argument:

  • The “total certainty” evinced by scientists in general degrades their credibility.

“None of this is to deny climate change or the possible severity of its consequences. But ordinary citizens also have a right to be skeptical of an overweening scientism. They know — as all environmentalists should — that history is littered with the human wreckage of scientific errors married to political power.

I’ve taken the epigraph for this column* [JAC: see below] from the Polish poet Czeslaw Milosz, who knew something about the evils of certitude. Perhaps if there had been less certitude and more second-guessing in Clinton’s campaign, she’d be president. Perhaps if there were less certitude about our climate future, more Americans would be interested in having a reasoned conversation about it.”

We see here that Stephens’s real objection is not science, but “scientism,” normally taken to be the extension of science into areas where it supposedly doesn’t belong, but to Stephens it’s a form of scientific arrogance.

But there is no scientist who would say that we are absolutely certain about climate change, or about evolution, either. Stephens is tilting at a windmill. The best data available tell us that both pheomena are real, and the probability we are wrong is very, very low. Yes, we could both be wrong, but Stephens is using that very small possibility to do down science as a whole and—let’s face it—to give heart to climate-change denialists.

The Washington Post which is owned by the New York Times, has written a critique of Stephens’s column, as has Slate.  The Post‘s piece in particularly good at pointing out the ambiguities and misstatements in Stephen’s column. They asked the Times’s editorial-page boss James Bennett, responsible for overseeing Stephens’s column, to respond to their critique, and got this response, which they call “Editorial Page Editor’s Boilerplate Kumbaya Response to Public Outrage”:

If all of our columnists and all of our contributors and all of our editorials agreed all of the time, we wouldn’t be promoting the free exchange of ideas, and we wouldn’t be serving our readers very well.

The crux of the matter here is whether the questions Bret’s raising and the positions he’s taking are outside the bounds of reasonable discussion. I don’t think a fair reading of his column remotely supports that conclusion — quite the opposite, actually. He’s capturing and contributing to a vitally important debate, and engaging that debate directly helps each of us clarify what we think. We’re already getting some spirited and constructive responses, and I’m looking forward to reflecting those views in our pages, too.

A “fair reading” of Stephens’s column shows that he’s concluding that science can’t be trusted in general, and perhaps for climate change as well—at least as far as the certainty of the phenomenon is concerned.

In hiring Stephens and allowing him to spew anti-science rhetoric as opinion, the Times is doing the equivalent of publishing an evolution-criticizing piece by a closet creationist. To see that, just rewrite Stephens’s column, but substitute “evolution” for “climate change”. Would such a piece merit inclusion on the paper’s op-ed page?

__________________

*[Column epigraph]

When someone is honestly 55 percent right, that’s very good and there’s no use wrangling. And if someone is 60 percent right, it’s wonderful, it’s great luck, and let him thank God.

But what’s to be said about 75 percent right? Wise people say this is suspicious. Well, and what about 100 percent right? Whoever says he’s 100 percent right is a fanatic, a thug, and the worst kind of rascal.

— An old Jew of Galicia

How trash science journals operate

May 4, 2017 • 8:30 am

Just to show you how these “garbage journals” operate, I got this email while I was in New Zealand, asking me to be a “deputy editor-in-chief” (i.e., one who has to solicit articles—something unnecessary for a high-quality journal to which scientists submit articles. The telling point: I am not a biochemist or molecular biologist! These people are simply trolling everyone they can, hoping to find some suckers.

Note that 1.5 says I will get 20% of publication fees for each article I solicit, another bit of bait.

I doubt there is a scientist working out there who doesn’t get these invitations for inappropriate fields on a regular basis.

Dear Dr. Coyne,

Based on your distinguished scholarly expertise and research in the field of biochemistry and molecular biology, we have identified you as a candidate for the position of deputy editor-in-chief of the World Journal of Biological Chemistry (WJBC). We now invite you to peruse the job description and submit candidate documents for the position. We have also included information about the journal and publisher to help explain the meaningful impact you may make on the field through your work with theWJBC.

1 JOB DESCRIPTION

1.1 Responsibilities First and foremost, the deputy editor-in-chief should comply with all policies and principles put forth by the committee on publication ethics (COPE,http://publicationethics.org/); these will guide your primary duty of inviting contributions from worldwide scholars in the field to meet the requirements of readers for high quality articles, with emphasis put on the publishing of findings and achievements in emerging research disciplines, such as modern biotechnology, translational medicine, minimally invasive medicine, and medical artificial intelligence. Second, the deputy editor-in-chief will attend the first-round meeting of evaluation (first decision on manuscript acceptance or rejection). Third, the deputy editor-in-chief will attend the second-round meeting of evaluation (final decision on manuscript acceptance or rejection). Finally, the deputy editor-in-chief will attend important conferences in the field to invite contributions from conference attendees.

1.2 Goals: The first goal of the deputy editor-in-chief’s efforts is to make the WJBC become a highly influential academic journal that disseminates academic opinions and helps readers acquire knowledge. The second goal is to ensure the academic quality of articles published in the WJBC meets the basic criteria for inclusion in MEDLINE and Science Citation Index Expanded (SCIE). For information on MEDLINE Journal Selection, please visit http://www.nlm.nih.gov/pubs/factsheets/jsel.html; for information on SCIE Journal Selection, please visit http://wokinfo.com/essays/journal-selection-process/.

1.3 Terms: The first term is 4 years, during which the goal is to achieve indexing ofWJBC in SCIE. The WJBC is a high quality, peer-reviewed, open-access journal. It is now indexed in PubMed and PubMed Central. For details, please visit:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/1495/.

1.4 Position: Deputy Editor-in-Chief.

1.5 Salary: Codeputy editors-in-chief will share 20% of the Article Processing Charge (APC) of the WJBC (including personal income tax). For more information about the APC, please visit our website at http://www.wjgnet.com/1949-8454/Nav/465.

 

2 INFORMATION ABOUT THE JOURNAL

2.1 Journal home page: The home page of the WJBC includes the following information: about the journal, all issues, and article processing charge, etc. For more information, please visit http://www.wjgnet.com/1949-8454/index.htm.

2.2 Publisher page:  The home page of Baishideng Publishing Group (BPG) includes information including about the BPG, article processing charge, company registration, and contact us, etc. For more information, please visit http://www.wjgnet.com/bpg.

If you are interested in being the WJBC Deputy Editor-in-Chief, please submit your personal information according to the following steps.

How to Submit

Step 1: Submit the basic information about the candidate for Deputy Editor-in-Chief(closed as of April 28, 2017).

Step 2: To accept our invitation, please login to the F6Publishing System by clicking http://www.f6publishing.com/forms/main/login.aspx?uid=E4D2C2E0A4ED633825B89A0DCC490718E796EB2F77BE95F1&tid=B14B03410BFD5AEE . Please update your personal information (including First Name, Middle Name, and Institution).

 

Step 3: Provide ten Key Words relevant to your field (to facilitate peer review).

Step 4:  Submit your Curriculum Vitae, Publication List, and Biography. The biography should consist of 250 words and should highlight your academic impact in the field.

Step 5:  Submit the address of your Website. This will be the link to your academic profile, research group, if any, or institution.

Step 6:  Submit your recent professional Photo. The image must be a JPG file. The photo size should be 48 mm in height and 33 mm in width.

Step 7:  The evaluation of candidates will take about 4 weeks. Once we make the decision, we will contact you as soon as possible (including salary).

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to receiving your candidacy documents.

 

Best regards,

Lian-Sheng Ma, President and Company Editor-in-Chief

Baishideng Publishing Group Inc

8226 Regency Drive, Pleasanton, CA 94588, USA

Telephone: +1-925-223-8242

Fax: +1-925-223-8243

E-mail: l.s.ma@wjgnet.com

Help Desk: http://www.f6publishing.com/HelpDesk

http://www.wjgnet.com

Click http://www.f6publishing.com/Unsubscribe?id=E4D2C2E0A4ED633825B89A0DCC490718E796EB2F77BE95F1 to unsubscribe from this email list.

Readers’ wildlife photos

May 4, 2017 • 7:30 am

Reader Joe Dickinson is back with some swell bird photos. His notes are indented.

Camping last month at Pinnacles National Park, we were struck by the density of the population of turkey vultures (Cathartes aura) around the campground.  In the morning (when I took my d*g for a walk) they were clustered in a few trees.  I think there are five individuals in the first shot and ten in the second.

Here is a closer look at a mature adult with the characteristic red head (black in juveniles).

Jumping back a couple of years and up to Tomales Bay, here is an individual sunning itself.  The flight primaries are silvery and look almost white when catching the light.

Back to Pinnacles, here is one in flight.

In the late afternoon, soaring much higher (so a little blurry in the photo) is something much more exciting, a California condor (Gymnogyps califorianus), recognizable by the white patches under the wings (not to mention the numbered tag).

Altogether, we saw about a dozen condors, all at great distance.  To get closer, I take you back ten years and over the Grand Canyon, where I first saw “wild” (released) condors.

Here is some context.

Superficially, these are similar to the vultures, including the naked head that is red in mature adults.  But these birds are huge, with a wingspan over 160% of the vulture’s and a body mass about five time as great.

It is very cool to look down from above on condors soaring out over the canyon.  Here is one just launching.