First, a quote:
“Just consider how absurd it would be to reverse the logic of human shields in this case: Imagine the Israelis using their own women and children as human shields against Hamas. Recognize how unthinkable this would be, not just for the Israelis to treat their own civilians in this way, but for them to expect that their enemies could be deterred by such a tactic, given who their enemies actually are.
Again, it is easy to lose sight of the moral distance here—which is strange. It’s like losing sight of the Grand Canyon when you are standing right on the edge of it. Take a moment to actually do the cognitive work: Imagine the Jews of Israel using their own women and children as human shields. And then imagine how Hamas, or Hezbollah, or al-Qaeda, or ISIS, or any other jihadist group would respond. The image you should now have in your mind is a masterpiece of moral surrealism. It is preposterous. It is a Monty Python sketch where all the Jews die.
Do you see what this asymmetry means? Can you see how deep it runs? Do you see what it tells you about the ethical difference between these two cultures?” —Sam Harris \(audio is here)
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Now, here is a simple question—or rather questions—prompted by my reading the readers’ thoughts in the discussion yesterday, “What does the U.S. want with Israel?”
How come no country in the world, save Israel, is calling for Hamas to surrender, lay down its arms, and release the hostages? That is the simplest way to end the war: no more Hamas, no more civilians killed, no more soldiers of the IDF killed, the hostages get to go home, and so on. It’s not complicated! (Of course how to run Gaza afterwards is complex and vexing, but first the war has to come to and end, and with a victory for Israel.)
And why is only Israel asking for this solution given that Hamas is a terrorist organization sworn to extirpate Israel and kill Jews, given that Hamas started this whole mess, and given that Hamas is even promoting the killing of more Palestinians, as well as members of NGOs, as a tactic to raise the world’s ire against Israel? How come the UN, the EU, and other Western governments aren’t pressuring Hamas? It is only Israel who gets pressured—to the extent that America is now telling Israel how to run the war, how to run its elections, and for heaven’t sake do not under any condition go into Rafah.
The answer to these questions is simple: Biden has become spineless and wants to win reelection, which he thinks he can’t do if he wholeheartedly supports Israel. And for the rest of the world, they simply want Israel to disappear, but except for some Muslim states they can’t say that out loud. (I’m not saying they want all the Jews killed, only that they don’t want Israel to exist.)
What a pity that Israel is in this largely on its own, while the rest of the world kowtows and grovels before Hamas! Yahweh knows, Israel is not perfect. But it’s a far sight better than Hamas and, as Sam Harris has emphasized, who you support in this conflict is a clear-cut moral question. Sadly, the world seems to have lost its moral compass.
“How come no country in the world, save Israel, is calling for Hamas to surrender, lay down its arms, and release the hostages? ”
Because that’s not a solution that is even likely to happen or even practical. How would you know all of Hamas surrendered? How would you know all the weapons were laid down? How would you know all the hostages were released as they could claim the rest were killed and buried in the bombing?
The IDF would know if Hamas remained. And a hostage settlement would have to include returning both live hostages and the bodies or dead ones? Claiming burial is not credible.
What you’re saying is that we have to pressure the good guys and leave the bad guys alone? Sorry, but the UN hasn’t even CONDEMNED Hamas for what it did.
I’m not defending the UN at all. I don’t know why you would think that.
Also probably many of the hostages unfortunately (along with Hamas – not unfortunately) have been buried in tunnel collapses due to the bombing.
The only way to know if any Hamas members or infrastructure remained would be a thorough occupation of Gaza as what the IDF is proceeding on now. Germany and Japan needed to be occupied after WWII, Gaza will need the same.
Sorry, I wasn’t accusing you of defending the UN; I was only making the point that condemnation of the bad guys is rare, and that even the UN hasn’t done it.
But aren’t moral statements concerning war based more on principle than practicality? When one country invades another at least some other countries can be expected to demand that the aggressor withdraw even though it’s pretty clear the aggressor doesn’t plan on doing that. The situation is being described; the goal is being expressed; the lines are being drawn. It’s not a strategy session.
Credit to Jerry:
https://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2024/03/does-america-want-israel-to-lose-war.html
I mentioned this possibility once before:
No one is demanding Hamas to surrender because no one believes that Hamas adheres to modern norms of human dignity.
It’s harder to understand why some people actually *support* Hamas. Here I think we are seeing the pathological side of the oppressor/oppressed ideology in action. One only needs to see the “Queers for Palestine” banners to understand how foolish their beliefs can be.
My biggest disappointment is with the media, which has largely decided to ignore Hamas’s responsibility for events. Yes, somewhere in each article is a well-trodden twenty word sentence on Hamas, but this throat-clearing précis is then inevitably followed by hundreds of words on supposed Israeli atrocities.
Of course the U.N. is behaving as expected, so it did not disappoint.
The brilliant Nina Paley captured it
best.
My formerly agnostic, suddenly anti-Zionist friends never hold arguments that honestly account for the past or present of Palestinian violence. Nor do they require anything of Hamas to achieve ceasefire. The hand waive is the word salad of ‘genocidal, Jewish supremacist, settler-colonial terrorist state’. At best this presents a tribal binary. In such a case I would side with the one more immured to enlightenment ideals vs the one funded by Iran and cozy with the rest of the Jihadists. I’m not sure they’ve thought that one through. I also think Hamas is playing them like a fiddle, which you can clearly see with the invocation of George Floyd in reference to ‘the occupation’.
This chaotic debate proves that even the arguments of scholars show cracks when challenged outside of their works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X_KdkoGxSs
For the record, I think this blog sometimes overlooks atrocities of the Israeli state and the degree to which it built the monster of Hamas. But I generally agree with the conclusions offered.
“How come no country in the world, save Israel, is calling for Hamas to surrender, lay down its arms, and release the hostages? Not just that but not even calling for a “conditional” surrender, let alone an unconditional surrender.
This question occupies me constantly and various reasons I consider vary from complete lack of interest or concern for the fate of Israel to western countries in particular being dishonest and spineless, fearful of religious zealots, various flavours of activists, extreme ignorance, blatant stupidity, political bias and as Sam Harris states “void of any moral compass”. Most faced with the category of violence visited upon Israel last October would have responded instantly and probably catastrophically without hesitation or concern for casualties occurring. Various examples spring easily to mind covering the last fifty years or more. Some I have been party to in the armed forces and I feel it whenever a member of the IDF is killed.
None of these concerned or involved Israel but the majority concerned another well known Abrahamic religion and we all understand which one! I have served, worked in and visited many middle eastern countries including Israel and I can categorically state which one in my opinion is the best by a huge margin, Israel, the only democratic country in the whole zone.
So why does Israel get the “black ball”? Can it really be such hatred for this amazing country and its’ Jewish population? My personal experiences reveal that most have no idea whatsoever what being “ Jewish” even means now let alone the considerable history behind this. I grew up learning about this country, its formation and its achievements, turning the desert green and much more. I have lived through all of the violence perpetrated, military and other against Israel and its citizens both Jewish and not.
I wish I knew the answer to this interminable question. Why does the world hate Israel and the Jews?
I know that Israel must not just survive but must be completely victorious and prosperous because if not then we are all in big trouble.
Apologies for the length of my post. Spelled my own name incorrectly, should be Robert Ladley
I have to think, when Biden talks with Netanyahu privately, Biden admits he agrees with Israel on the war. But, he says he has to hold his coalition together for the November election. After the election, things will be different.
That’s my line of thinking as well. In politics, dissimulation is always a feature.
“How come no country in the world, save Israel, is calling for Hamas to surrender, lay down its arms, and release the hostages?”
I am confident that we have had US presidents in my lifetime who would have demanded all three of those things. (Some might even have pledged unconditional support to Israel if those three conditions were not met.) I can easily see Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush doing so. Bill Clinton likely would have, as well.
Lack of moral clarity is now a bipartisan trait in America. Flight from reason is, too. Certainly, the issues that each side mucks up can be different. But muck it up, they will. And none of us can escape it.
Perhaps the US Presidents you cite would have demanded all three things. What’s different now is the American population. Before the age of the cellphone and social media, the vast majority of Americans would have supported Israel unconditionally, so it would have been easy for a President to do likewise (even in an election year). Unfortunately, it’s an election year and Biden must play a political balancing act since millions of younger American voters have lost their moral bearings.
I suspect that Biden’s tough stance has been secretly coordinated with Netanyahu, who has nothing to lose because his chances of reelection are remote. Biden, on the other hand needs cover through November. If Israel invades Rafah, for instance, Biden will announce an arms reduction… which he’ll secretly “slow walk.”
This is Jared Kushner’s war and as Jared Kushner’s war, there is nothing redeeming about it.
I haven’t heard of that theory before…can you elucidate? I dislike the guy and think he’s a shady, greedy creep, but I don’t see a link that he’s the cause.
Kush said that Israel should relocate Palestinians to the Negev and turn Gaza into waterfront property for rich people.
OK, thanks for the added information. I’ll check it out further.
And these words by a non-Israeli nobody are relevant how?
I didn’t know that Kushner has told Hamas to perform the Oct. 7 massacre.
I think the point is here that the world public (WP) have one answer to the conflict based on the optics. People are dying and some are children.
The deep seated historical animosities and political machinations are far too complex for WP consideration and this urgent hence, the quick easy answer, is to STOP now. Fixed!
Hamas had one day of violence, the IDF are doing the same in their eyes (WP) but over months and is seen as disproportional violence.
Who cares about Israel and it’s security problems they’re rich and powerful!
WP IMO see hate generated violence, common to a horror area of the planet that no WP (individuals) let alone a state elected leader has control over. Frustration and sensibilities common to all humans are assaulted, if you live in a relatively peaceful country it would seem right to want it for all and they do. They need and want it to end, children dying is a guaranteed feel good mood killer.
The Hamas charter explains why it’s a fucking hell. World public won’t read it.
That said, for various reasons which include, I don’t care it’s their war, I hate Jews, I hate Muslims, on and on… make up my guess, a good portion of WP and stirred up by full frontal shambolic media biases (a lot of it over time) come the rest of world public. Uninterested in why just the optics of people and children dead and dying. They probably don’t want to be traumatized by the Hamas Oct 7th horror show either. Many (WP) have their own internal and day to day conflicts so how does this affect me. Perhaps not students and zealots.
The WP morals’ I’m talking about the those in the streets and neighbourhoods which maybe are confused and wayward but it is easy to see why, we have to live with that.
All par for the course in this senseless conflict when no rational thought and consideration to truth is applied.