Or perhaps I should call them “Readers’ porks,” as they’re all anti-Semitic this week.
First, two comments on my satire “Gentiles must cease their relentless cultural appropriation of bagels“. Needless to say, these didn’t make it to airtime.
From reader Jakob Aubill (who used that name):
Now I’ve seen it all. I’m not surprised that this level of idiocy comes from the Jewish sector of the Internet.
Poor Jakob’s only unable to read, but an anti-Semite to boot. You can look up Jakob Aubill on Google, but of course it may be a different one, or someone appropriating his name.
*********
From reader “fgfghhh,” too cowardly to use his/her name:
Jews are not real humans. Simply vermin
*********
And here’s a comment from reader “Phalluster” on yesterday’s post, “Pope again pretends to be progressive, but it’s only lip service”:
I guess you heebs are gonna have to make a ‘Vatican 3’ so you can impose more of your perversions on the goyim. If you believe any of your own religious tomes, you’d worry that God will eventually tear his mighty fist up through the earth’s crust and pull you all down into the magma. It will be the world’s loudest “oy vey!”
Just a reminder to those who think that anti-Semitism is a dead issue. Do these comments bother me? Not at all. It’s possible they are ironic (see next post), but somehow I don’t think so. There are such people in the world, and it’s not worth worrying about them—until they try to turn their bigotry into political action.
Fortunately, people with such views rarely make it into office in co9untries that have any influence. If they, they soon get sent packing.
Trolls are miserable people that hide behind a computer to throw around insults. It’s really weird.
Anyways, your cultural appropriation post is hilarious!
sub
No, they’re not ironic, just moronic.
Wow, pretend-God’s scary pretend-mighty pretend-fist. So pretend-scary!
I’m glad it doesn’t bother you, but it always bothers me.
Growing up I’d always hoped/assumed that such ignorance would die out with the previous generation, and that education would mostly prevent its transmission to the younger generation. Maybe this is happening over the long arc of history, but the persistence of such regressive minds is still depressing. I can’t imagine what it is like to be cloaked in such mental darkness. What percent of their thought is pointless paranoia and hate?
It bothers me too. I’m still shocked every time I see this sort of thing. I’m not so naïve that I don’t know people like this exist. It’s, the fact they have no problem expressing such ideas openly that gets to me. What else goes on in the mind of a person who thinks hating someone for completely arbitrary reasons like race, religion, sexuality, culture etc. is okay? This is learned behaviour – you aren’t born automatically hating (in this case) Jews.
As the lyrics in a song from the very old musical, South Pacific which I say for the first time a year or so ago (with Teddy Tahu Rhodes) — ‘You’ve got to be carefully taught’ to be racist etc.
Very true.
I would add though, even if you’ve been taught that stuff as a kid, when you grow up you should be capable of learning that stuff like racism just doesn’t make sense. Many of us commenting here don’t share our parents’ religious views for example.
As noble as the aims of that song are, I don’t think people need to be carefully taught to be xenophobic. Tribalism seems to me to come rather naturally to Homo sapiens.
No, I disagree. I think it’s a natural outcome of the ‘herd instinct’. We have ‘in-groups’ and ‘out-groups’. We are suspicious of those who are different. Nationalism comes from the same roots.
That doesn’t mean it can’t be exploited or exacerbated by people for their own ends. Nor am I suggesting that, because I think it’s ‘natural’, it’s good, any more than other ‘natural’ instincts like greed, or selfishness. (And there are obviously ‘good’ natural instincts like altruism and fairness).
We are complicated.
cr
I see mb just beat me to it, only more succinctly.
cr
But tribal prejudices are taught, generation by generation.
“Growing up I’d always hoped/assumed that such ignorance would die out with the previous generation, and that education would mostly prevent its transmission to the younger generation.”
I rather expect every generation feels that way when young. I know I thought creationism would certainly join the dinosaurs by the time I had my own kids. And, since it was the uber-liberal 60’s/70’s, that so would racism, sexism, classism, chauvinism, you name it.
After a while it dawns on one that the Enlightenment started in the mid to late 17th century; if it hasn’t caught on by now, what’s to say it ever will? (Notwithstanding Stephen Pinker. 😉 )
Ugh. I am sure the internet has made it easier for overt racism to rise again. I don’t know which is worse: idiots like the ones quoted above, or public figures who are really racist but try hard to make it look like they aren’t.
Or they take individual actions against those they fear or despise. One reason to carry.
There is no way I’m going to “carry”. I despise guns and won’t go near one.
Good reply!
I respect you immensely, and your stand on guns as well. You and the world are probably best served if YOU don’t carry; I don’t propose that you do so. My point is that as much as you think that you’ll never go near a gun, that is not always up to you. Sometimes they seek people out, so to speak.
I wish you an extremely long and productive life during which you never come in contact with a gun, or someone else who is carrying a gun.
I often fear that the best-known outspoken atheists are setting themselves up as literal targets of the insane ideologues of our culture.
This is obviously true. How many Atheist bloggers were hacked to death today? How many beaten or shot?
I will not prolong the argument further than simply to say that self defense is every person’s prerogative and that the best defensive weapon of choice is the one that best endures your survival.
Ditto, here, but I do think self defense classes might someday come in handy. I hope to take krav maga, when my health is up to it.
Unfortunately, the antisemitism you inadvertently focused on yourself was always there, and I’ve seen too much to be surprised. Worse, it’s growing.
Go to YouTube and search any keyword related to Jews or Zionism, and the results could astonish you. Look at any of the bigoted ones, and your list of others will fill so fast with such hatred, it is stunning.
sub
What sad, lonely people these trolls must be.
There are unlimited names for the people who say things like this or act in this way. It is best to stick with ignorant because that covers all the rest and we should keep it simple for the audience we speak of.
Except, Mr Schenck, I am sorry to have to disagree with you: they are not ignorant.
Not ignorant at all … … AS they .know. bloody full well of what muck it is that they spew.
And these people have known — since at least their ages of, say, eight or nine or seven or six years !
The only persons I believe to be ignorant of their hateful comings and goings and thinkings and doings are either i) the truly biochemically mentally deranged or are ii) child soldiers — brainwashed at such young development into mental deranging – bigotries.
To wit: Bigots of history. eg, i) the 20th Century holocaust did not occur because of ignoramuses. They ALL wholly ,knew. about .what it was. that they were about. And ii) the Burning Times’ bigots and that holocaust across “civilized” Europe !
These people ALL knew.
They simply … … chose.
They chose to be ‘like’ this.
Not ?
Blue
ps Since their so young ages they have known, I say, because — by then — of thus: People know by their ages of nine or eight .just exactly what. makes themselves feel okay and safe and loved. Except for the two groups of people I stated above, they know these self – securing feelings.
So, too, they .know. what the lack or the whole and complete absences of these several securing things will do to themselves, let alone, do to others.
And they, therefore, make the choices that they make.
That is very interesting – especially that last part about making the choices that they make. I doubt they have this choice. But I also do not do psychoanalysis on every racist, bigot, and prejudice person that I come across on a daily basis.
I did hear somewhere that the heart of prejudice lies in two concepts: Ignorance & Fear. So just knowing full well what they do or did does not change the cause.
The comments bother me. It is always disturbing to be reminded that there are sick minds out there.
I watched a recordeed Independeent Lens program on Nazis who came to Leith, North Dakota and They intended to take over the city government and offices! Ended up going aroundd with their guns and got charged with terrorism and a felony for their leader.
All but three left the community. Their land had no water or sewer connection so the community required them to provide connections and that cost more than they had planned!
Nazis defeated by sewer reqs. How satisfying is that?
“Just a reminder to those who think that anti-Semitism is a dead issue.”
Of course not, because ignorance will never die!!
They are a deeply nasty lot
I just want to note my appreciation for our host’s insistence on civility and the filtering PCC does on this kind of bull-pucky. If this sort of thing made it through on a regular basis I doubt I’d hang around.
So, thank you, Jerry!
“I just want to note my appreciation for our host’s insistence on civility and the filtering PCC does on this kind of bull-pucky. If this sort of thing made it through on a regular basis I doubt I’d hang around.”
Reading it wouldn’t drive me away, but just imagine what these threads would devolve into if such comments weren’t removed. We’d spend much of our time responding to idiots rather than having productive conversations.
I think it would drive many of us away because that kind of thing feeds on itself, attracting more and more heinousness. At a point it becomes more trouble than it is worth.
In any case, we’re not likely to have my hypotheses tested given Da Roolz!
“I think it would drive many of us away because that kind of thing feeds on itself, attracting more and more heinousness.”
That was kinda my point, maybe I didn’t express myself well.
I and many others here used to frequent Pharyngula, but left because it degenerated in exactly this way.
“I and many others here used to frequent Pharyngula, but left because it degenerated in exactly this way.”
It wasn’t “idiotic” comments that drove me away, but idiotic responses to reasonable comments.
I’m not sure what you refer to by “comments”. Responses to comments are also comments, in my lexicon.
And Pharyngula is exactly what I was referring to. If WEIT didn’t have Da Roolz and enforcement there-of, I’d spend as much time here as I do at Pharyngula. Which is none anymore.
“I’m not sure what you refer to by “comments”. Responses to comments are also comments, in my lexicon.”
Your initial comment essentially stated that if you had to see anti-semitic comments, or the like, you wouldn’t stick around. My point was they by themselves wouldn’t particularly bother me because they don’t surprise me, but that what I found more problematic was that every comment like that would result in 20 hostile responses which would be more disruptive. It’s not the trolls that particularly bother me if they were ignored, but the feeding of them which escalates the situation. I don’t see what is so hard to understand?
The point I was making is that PCC’s Roolz (and the enforcement there-of) prevent the degeneration of the comment-space. If they didn’t exist the comment space would become so polluted that many of us would leave.
Frankly, I’m not sure what we are disagreeing about except perhaps that maybe I’d head out before you would if WEIT became a cesspool.
“Frankly, I’m not sure what we are disagreeing about”
I don’t think we’re disagreeing about anything which was why I said “That was kinda my point, maybe I didn’t express myself well” in response to your first comment directed at me.
This is how it feels to be in violent agreement.
“This is how it feels to be in violent agreement.”
Literally laughing out loud! 😀
😀 You guys are just too civilised!
I enjoyed your anti-appropriation piece, but I have to offer a slight counter to it, in that cultural appropriation isn’t always a bad thing in certain circumstances.
http://pictoraltheology.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-up-side-of-cultural-appropriation.html
Errm, so, you’re suggesting the Romans should have stopped using crucifixion for their executions and culturally appropriated … the Jewish method?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk
I’d say that’s very environmentally responsible, seeing as timber is not a plentiful resource in arid countries, but there are always plenty of rocks…
cr
And be sure to provide fake beards for the women. Would not want to be sexist.
Are there any women here today?
I’m here, so, yes.
Me, too
*Very high pitched voices”
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
While stroking fake beards🙊
“It’s possible they are ironic (see next post), but somehow I don’t think so.”
Yeah there’s no way any of those are Irony, and FBI hate crime statistics which receive far to little attention where Jews are concerned, show clearly that anti-semitism is alive, and well.
I’ve experienced anti-semitism all over. Bigotry of many types is prevalent in the US and, apparently in Europe.
I appreciate Jerry’s calm response to these grotesque and inhumane attacks. At the same time, I can’t say they don’t bother me. I agree that worrying about them isn’t helpful, unless they motivate a social uprising or other political action, but the existence of these attitudes saddens me. I’m glad there is a way to air how awful they are. At least we can look together at them on WEIT.
What troubles me is that the new anti-semitism isn’t homegrown or spontaneous; it’s the fruit of decades of subtle propaganda from the Arab countries and trans-national Jihadist organizations. When you’ve got billions from oil royalties, you can hire the best propagandists in the business, and a lot of lazy-minded so-called “intellectuals” will happily fall for this crap. Try “innocently” questioning these fools, and they’ll reveal that they believe the same old Arab-pushed lies: 1) the Jews “stole” the land from the “Palestinians”, 2) the Holocaust never happened, 3) Jewish bankers secretly run the world (this one dates back to the 19th century), and even 4) Jews use the blood of Christian children to make their Passover matzos (this dates back to the middle ages). Needless to add, Jihadis believe all these lies and dutifully teach them to their children.
It isn’t true that anti-semitism isn’t homegrown or spontaneous. It is ancient and deep in European and American history.
The anti-semitism from Arab countries is particularly pervasive these days. But I don’t think you can blame the Western version on them.
For the “western version”, read (or see the documentary film) “Constantine’s Sword.”
The Muslims, coming as they did after the Christians, did what the Christians did, only moreso, by appropriating from Jews and then hating the Jews for having been there, done that first. Muslims took it to a whole new level.
+ 1
I know this is going to be naive of me to say so, but I’m confused about where that level of jew-hating comes from. It’s just entirely alien to me and anyone I’ve ever known. In a way it seems “dated” to me, like I’m shocked when I encounter such comments and think: “Wait, there are people who still hate Jews?”
Who are these people?
I think it may simply be momentum. Small minds eager to identify an “other” and, well, looky here, The Jews™.
No. Antisemitism really is increasing, as measured by violence as well as nonviolent attacks. And it’s not just in Europe and the Middle East. Southern Poverty Law Center might have some stats.
Of course I didn’t mean “momentum” in the Newtonian sense. Just that as new “small minds” come of “othering” age around the globe, there is already a handy out-group with a history as an out-group to start hating: the Jews. No real reason for hate necessary. This process could certainly be accelerating.
I see what you mean…
Not to mention through the BDS movement on college campuses worldwide…
“…but I’m confused about where that level of jew-hating comes from.”
I know what you mean.
It’s especially upsetting that it largely stems from the liberal wings of any western society. (Even more especially because so many Jews are themselves liberal! Don’t the non-Jew westerners recognize that?)
It seems as if the Jews just won’t act downtrodden enough to appeal to those obsessed about the oppressed. Maybe they just overdid that Chosen People shtick back in the day. Maybe they’ve always been a safe target since their numbers are so comparably low.
Antisemitism is unfortunately not that uncommon in my experience. When I went to high school, one of the most common insults among the ethnic norwegian kids besides “fag” was “Jew”.
That was about 13 years ago so I can only imagine it’s more common now.
Interestingly,the most common insult among muslim kids seemed to be “negro” and “black”.
I’m unsure of the reason behind this.
This is all anecdotal of course, I don’t have any statistics to back me up.
Wow! 13 years ago? It’s worse than I thought! And I was thinking pretty harsh thoughts, too!
I think your reaction upon hearing this type of thing is perfectly normal whether you are Jewish or not. It does not make any sense in a rational world and that is the shock that hits first. After that you realize that these lowest of the species live on the internet and spread garbage where they can get away with it. The shock, however, will turn the other way if they ever make the mistake of saying such a thing around me. I’m a normally peaceful person but there are limits.
“you’d worry that God will eventually tear his mighty fist up through the earth’s crust and pull you all down into the magma”
I thought the big man lived in the sky so why would he be reaching up through the crust? Doesn’t the devil live in the magma and hellfire down below
Anti-Semitism is certainly not a dead issue. I see more of it every day in the comments on “respectable” Internet sites. Some of the regular columnists have started to notice. See, for example,
http://takimag.com/article/i_hate_the_comments_here_gavin_mcinnes#axzz45NQPvkk0
I see open and unabashed anti-Semitism, not only on the Right, but also on the Left of the blogosphere. The Great Ceiling Cat in the Sky might not be worried about it, but I am.
Me, too. I’m very worried about it.
Me three. That’s what’s responsible for the lingering doubts I have about welcoming Muslim immigrants. Yes, the US was bigoted & racist when it stigmatized Irish immigrants, for example; and especially in the way we treated blacks and Native Americans.
But none of those cultures were avidly advocating the elimination of Jews or any other ethnic segment of society.
Disturbed minds are not surprising, fixed ingrown and constricted, there must no room for expansion, it must be very uncomfortable by the shit they spew out.
They could help themselves and lance that boil if they payed a little attention to something bigger than themselves.
Keith +/-:
I would like to add to your last statement:
“They could help themselves and lance that boil if they payed a little attention to something bigger than themselves…………. such a flea (in terms of brain capacity).
They seem nice!
I wouldn’t be so sure “fgfghhh” isn’t his real name. A vowel-free last name wouldn’t be the only thing he has in common with “Joe Btfsplk” of Li’l Abner fame.
The Jews have their own “sector of the Internet” now? Figures, but I often wonder how they pull off being so separate and clannish and yet still manage to infiltrate every sector of the power structure at the same time.
Sounds like a job for…
(wait for it…)
SUPER-Jew!