Should I join Patheos?

December 15, 2014 • 9:04 am

The people who run Patheos and its atheist channel have asked me to join that channel. I haven’t made any decision, nor am I yet even leaning one way or another. I thought, then, that I’d ask the readers how they feel about this, both to see if people might abscond (I don’t want to lose the friendly community we’ve built up) or gauge what they think of moving to a new place. Readers might help point out advantages and disadvantages that I haven’t thought of. The ones I have are below:

The issues are several.  One is ads: I would have no choice about having them.  The upside, of course, is extra income, but I’ve no real need for that. The downside is, well, ads, but people have ways to get around them.

The main possible advantage for me is extra readership, as we all like to get as many readers as we can, and for me that means good readers: ones that will contribute to the conversation. I’m told that with membership in the network such an increase would almost certainly happen. But that, too, has a downside, for right now I read almost every comment that is made, and am able to engage with readers; but if readership grows much more I wouldn’t be able to handle it and might have to use other folks as moderators

But a counter-consideration is that I like being a lone, adless wolf, although at the network I am assured I’d be able to post anything I want (I asked specifically about that). Nothing about the content would change, including posts about noms, cats, and boots along with the usual biology and heathen stuff. I would also be free to comment on material written by other members of the network.

Patheos also has technical support: I would get a redesign and be able to add new features, and all my past posts would be added to my site, though I don’t know in what form.

So please tell me what you think. As I said, I’m truly on the fence about this one, and I know that readers will be honest with their thoughts.

Time for dinner!

 

572 thoughts on “Should I join Patheos?”

  1. This website wouldn’t be the same if it was lost in the shuffle on that blog site. In fact, it wouldn’t be this website at all!

    I love the unique independence of WEIT. I went to Pathos and looked at the big long list of blogs and couldn’t image Jerry’s site just floating amongst the other riffraff.

    Though, I am glad that Jerry posed this question to all of us. After thinking about it, and visiting Pathos, I realize how much of a treasure we already have here. I hope Jerry comes to the same conclusion, but (as goes without saying) I’ll follow the website wherever it might find itself.

  2. Another thought…do both. Perhaps focus on atheism and other new topics over there with the bulk of the science & living room fare over here.

    That way if it doesn’t work out to your liking the move back home will take less than one truck load. :-j

    Mike

  3. WEIT is elegant, uncluttered, beautifully designed (I often wondered who designed your site), a pleasure not only to the mind, but to the eye too. A jewel. Patheos is pathetically ugly blogsite.

    I really appreciate you’re asking for your readers input.

    Please do not move, not only for all the reasons mentioned earlier, but also for purely aestethic reasons.

  4. I’d favor that you stayed here. I like your website and the layout and it feels more special than other atheist blogs. Your blog is much different than the typical atheist blog, and I am afraid it would lose its character if you moved. It helps me focus on the content to have the simple layout without ads.

  5. I had not heard of Patheos, and just came back from checking it out. I have to say, I do NOT like that site — not only the clutter and the ads, and the general lack of interesting content, but the special annoyance of a pop-up ad (“Like what you’re reading? Consider subscribing to our newsletters …”)

    Yes, if you think it’s best to move to Patheos, I will follow you there, and try to learn how to get to WEIT without much fumbling. But, speaking personally, I would prefer you to stay where you are.

  6. It is just as likely that you would lose readers. Your section there could get lost in the cluttered and bad design, and a flood of ignorant comments could drive away your existing readers.

  7. I hope you stay independent. Patheos is visually noisy, chopped up and distracting; that and the constant clicking to “read more” makes it hard to follow an article. Ads (also distracting) are everywhere.

    Would you have any control over the ad content on your pages? For example, I think “9 Celebs Who Ruined Their Faces” would cheapen your brand.

    Did you get more comments on your science posts once we knew that was important to you? Might the same approach work if you’re looking for more readers – and maybe bring higher quality readership than you’d gain on Patheos?

    I really don’t think Patheos does your site justice. But, if you choose to move, I’ll follow, though with no guarantee as to how long I’ll stay.

  8. I’ll continue to read you regardless of the web host. That said, I’m skeptical that a move to Patheos would be a positive change. I read that site occasionally but generally don’t find it near as interesting as you, Jerry. That’s probably why Hemant wants you. There’s more in it for him than for you.

  9. Stay here Jerry. Your format is perfect and quite readable. Ads are a terrible nuisance to wade through and frequently crash my old XP computer.

  10. Wow – Some fine articulations of sentiments here!

    After reading them, I am persuaded that my initial thinking was wrong and I have changed my mind; now I (for one) disfavor the move of WEIT to Patheos – though it is still true that I’m with you if you move or if you stay.

  11. I read WEIT daily because I enjoy its content. Where it is hosted would not affect that. But I guess that at a fundamental level I don’t see why it should be hosted on a platform that aims to “become the “WebMD of religion and spirituality”. (This admittedly from Wikipedia). Even with its “atheist channel” to me it is a jarring juxtaposition.

    1. One can get a pretty good sense of the vibe at Patheos by visiting their About page.

      “The importance of religion and spirituality, coupled with the growing use of the Internet for religious matters, point to the ongoing need for an online resource for religious and spiritual engagement and dialogue. Patheos fills this need.

      They have an “Atheist Channel” because they are “welcoming of all faith traditions” and they think atheism is one of those. It gives me the creeps.

  12. Does Pathoes have soul? Do they dance?
    These are empirical questions.
    I do not know this site and have no need to find out.
    but can I offer, that is why they want yours Prof, like Ben and others, stay independent!
    I’m good here at WEIT.

  13. I hate Patheos, but I’ve found The Friendly Atheist trough it. I say do it for the wider audience.

  14. The Patheos site comes across as cluttered; what a Brazilian would call a ‘salad’ of different perspectives. Please stay independent. WEIT is just right. I am presented with plenty of other perspectives on Facebook already.

  16. You’ve already answered the question yourself 🙂

    “One is ads.. I’ve no … need for that.”
    “The main possible advantage is extra readership… but if readership grows much more I wouldn’t be able to handle it.”
    “I like being a lone, adless wolf”

    I’d say: stay a lone, adless wolf 🙂

  17. Hi Jerry, I’m a long time reader and I love your website, it’s the only site I make sure I read in full each day. My personal view is that internet advertisements are a real pain and the ones on Patheos can be particularly intrusive. There are also many of the click bait variety which I simply cannot abide. For instance this morning I saw the following on ads on there: ‘23 Santas who had too much vodka’ and ‘UK public snaps up bargains using this bizarre online trick’. I know it’s silly of me but this sort of thing really does rub me up the wrong way. In my view click bait and the rest of the clutter on Patheos will only distract from the great quality of WEIT for both current and potential readers.

    This site is a welcome haven from the commercial mishmash that saturates most websites and I hope it remains that way. I would strongly encourage you to stay although I would definitely still read you over at Patheos. Whichever way you decide I would just like to say thanks for a fab website Jerry.

  18. I live in South Africa and have just found your blog site – I love it because it says what it says about atheism and rationality, but covers every other subject under the sun. And you and the readers all love CATS, as do I. I read nearly every post and am usually late for work every day as a result – but who cares? I took a look at the Patheos site and I was dismayed by what I found. It’s busy and disjointed and the ads are totally awful. Personally I think your voice would be lost in the mess that is this site. I love the purity and friendliness of your site and I just feel that all that is good would be lost. And I honestly don’t want to read the religious point of view (having sloughed off religion after a long struggle) because they get too much time and attention already.

  19. I’ve only just read this post and hope my reply is not too late.

    I’ve stopped going to Patheos as the site is clunky, has pop-ups, takes an age to load and has self-starting ads. Space for posting is limited to between the ads and makes navigation hard.

    I used to read The Friendly Atheist daily but now don’t bother more than once a month.

    Please, Professor, stay here where I can read and enjoy your posts at least twice every day.

  20. I would counsel against signing up with Patheos. First, the Patheos crowd seems much less interesting than your website readers. Most importantly, to me, Patheos uses Disqus.
    Disqus is the poorest excuse I’ve ever encountered for a commenting system. Experience trying to read FA comments suggests that I would not be able to read the comments to this post: the downloaded Disqus code would fail (tech term: crap out) long before it succeeded in letting me click “Load More Comments” eight times (the header said 445 comments as I started writing this).

    I just rearranged some words in the preceding paragraph. I’ve tried doing that in Disqus: the standard “move selected text” gesture (mouse motion with left button down) results in a complaint about a missing insertion.

    Disqus also suppresses the useful large-movement keys, such as PgUp, PgDn, Home and End.

    Writing this gripe-list subset has led the me to wonder how much of low quality (as I see it) of FA comments is due to commenter frustration with Disqus, rather than, say, low quality of the religious trolls popping in from the other Patheos blogs.

    1. the downloaded Disqus code would fail (tech term: crap out) long before it succeeded in letting me click “Load More Comments” eight times (the header said 445 comments as I started writing this).

      I’ve not had much experience of Disqus, but that is an ominous difference.
      There are problems with WP having limited depth of threading (if you come in through the web page ; through the notifications, it doesn’t seem to have a limit), but the number of messages doesn’t seem to be a problem.
      I had a long-running creationist brow-beating session on Compuserve where the message count got up into the tens of thousands. It lasted for about 4 years, IIRC, until CIS was killed by AOL.
      Patheos strikes me as having many of the issues of the CIS->AOL devouring. AOL killed CIS, and the remaining pockets of civilised discussion and debate are severely depauperate compared to the pre-AOL state.

  21. I peruse the internet on a machine running Ubuntu/Firefox with a useful battery of blockers, so I am not bothered by some of the Patheos nuisances mentioned by other readers here. Nevertheless, I still find it irritating: messy layout and I need to adjust the comment font size for comfortable reading at my desk. Also, the commenters are much less interesting than here; even though most of your readers would follow you, they would be diluted. I would still follow WEIT if it moved, but I would much rather that it did not.

  22. Dear Professor Ceiling Cat: Please know that I will read your posts, blog, website each and every day regardless of the medium you utilize to reach the world. I learn a great deal from you, your writing style is eclectic and exquisite, and I can most honestly state that opening WEIT on my inbox each morning makes me smile. Thank you!

    I’m sorry you are unable to mull this important decision over with Hili for a few hours; Hili knows exactly the path you should follow.

    Cheers, kudos and thank you for everything you do for us (read: teach us). No matter what platform you use going forward, know that you are truly loved and appreciated!

    Your loyal reader and fellow human being, Ken Nardone, Philadelphia, PA

  23. I would say that a move would be a good thing. As Patheos carries all kinds of views. Surely if you and your readership (me included) believe in the general views you hold, it doesn’t matter where they’re published.

    If people of a different mindset come across your material and enjoy it, maybe they’ll join in too and maybe even be exposed to better ways of looking at the world. That’s more likely to happen on a larger site.

    This I suppose only has the caveat that the direction\content isn’t swayed by Patheos or the ADs. Having said that, mostly sites live on AD revenue and to get that revenue they just want to attract readers. You will do that and thus bolster them and yourself.

    If you ultimately get more money – fantastic. Money isn’t an evil thing, it’s what you do with it.

    Just keep writing, doing and being varied!

  24. I did not read all the comments, so sorry if this has been said already, but are you unable to do both? Many celebrities whether youtubers/etc.. are on multiple sites. Why not try and maintain both? I’d like to see you do more youtube videos as well.

  25. Coming in late to cast my vote for Prof Ceiling Cat to stay independent.
    While it may be true that readership would increase I’m not convinced that it would be readership the Prof would want. IMO there are some drecky blogs at Patheos with unpleasant and unenlightened commenters. If they started showing up in any numbers on WEIT it would likely be a moderation problem quite quickly.
    Also “hosting the conversation on faith” doesn’t seem to me what WEIT is about – not that there seems to be much actual ‘conversation’ going on at Patheos.
    It seems to me that aggregate blogs, whatever promises they may make to new bloggers, may not actually stay hands off but maybe that’s just my skewed observation.
    All that said, I’ll read WEIT wherever it is hosted.

  26. I prefer your website as is. The only blog I read on Patheos is the Friendly Atheist. To me, the drivel at the bottom and the ads at the margins are annoying and clutters up the site tremendously. Love the clean look (and the control you have) of WEIT just as it is!

  27. TL;DR version – I’d say go with whatever makes you happiest, but that’s my suggestion in just about every situation.

    Longer:
    I also read blogs on Patheos, and have a Disqus login. It’s kind of handy in that I find it easier to know when someone has replied to me on a variety of blogs I comment on.

    I also like reading you here, though I comment more rarely than I do elsewhere.

    If you don’t see much useful money coming from a move, I’d lean towards staying independent, however. Patheos may give you an increased (and hopefully improved) audience, but it will also increase the troll postings.

    1. “…an increased (and hopefully improved) audience, but it will also increase the troll postings.”

      Wait a moment there, partner… an improved audience? I resemble that! And how is that compatible with an increase in troll postings?

      1. Ah, yeah, I wasn’t terribly clear there. It wasn’t meant as a slight against the commenters here. Personally, I hope most/all would follow for any WEiT move, but a move may add in other posters I’ve seen at Patheos, who may add their own viewpoints. Increase and hopefully improve by transplanting to a new, larger pond, gaining rather than losing numbers and interesting posts.

        Which also includes some added scum, sadly.

        1. Well, then, let’s put a really annoying ad on Patheos to attract them here. 😀

          (The cream, not the scum, of course.)

  28. I dislike the ads on those kinds of sites but getting more readers for you is a good thing. Whatever you decide, I’ll be more than happy to follow you wherever you go and read what you have to say. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.

  32. And why (sorry if this has already been said) would Patheos net more readership? Are there people who only watch CBS?

  33. I lean slightly to “no move,” and join w others who have claimed that such a shift would change how your site/blog etc is perceived. I like your current site because it is independent, has its own personality (if a site can have a personality), and isn’t perceived as tackling “just” religious issues. Also, I’m not a big fan of ads. All this said, you do have a new book coming out, and if the move helps to promote it and sell more copies, then all the better. I will likely follow you, but might check in less frequently, especially while at work–due to the likelihood that the new site may be viewed as non-work related by our IT “police”. I will also respond w fewer visits if interrupted by flashing/popup ads. My “guess” is that your overall reach will increase but that the reader commitment will diminish. Tough call. Growth is always stressful.

  34. I’d prefer the current site. I’m familiar with the look and feel, appreciate not being inundated with ads, and (for me personally) see no value in going to a “network” (OTOH, also see no major downside; the merits of your bloggie/sitie will depend only on the content you post.)

    But not a big deal, and if you move I’ll visit there as often as I do here.

  35. I don’t think you should join Patheos because there are always annoying popup ads. Also, what if Patheos goes down? Then tons of nonreligious blogs go down. I don’t recall WordPress ever going down.

    I used to read Friendly Atheist all the time before patheos and now I hardly go there. You might consider the possibility that you would LOSE some readers. I would stay for sure just for the moggies though lol

  37. I read your post. You gave excellent reasons for not going, not great ones for going. and I think you see this. All the reasons for, that you gave, were followed by counterarguments.

    I’ll agree with whatever you do, of course, but you have a good thing here. Stick with it.

  38. Well, the only thing I can think to add (if it hasn’t already been said) is that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

    Whilst Patheos may in the long run increase readers in the long run, you may get an initial dip as people’s bookmarks etc need to change. You may wish to contact Phil Plait, Ed Yong etc of their experiences from shifting their websites to a new platform (as well as the folls at Patheos of course)

  39. I think patheos is a little weird. Some of the editors picks are dumb.. Im just saying. Your Page is awesome – youtube videos are the way to make money – that and a podcast – I see you linked from Reddit all the time.

  40. Not sure if it’s my slow broadband but comments take about a minute to appear on Patheos. Pretty much instantaneous on WEIT.

  41. Jerry –

    However seductive the blandishments, those who relinquish (in any field) independence and creative control (in any measure) invariably come to rue that decision. Ask any auteur who ever gave up final cut for points on the back end.

    And why pollute the best pound-for-pound commentariat with journeymen knocking about in a different weight class?

  42. I hope you will decide to stay as you are for most of the reasons already given by others.This is a daily visit for me,and the lack of clutter is important.

  44. I love this website. I have been reading it for close to two years. Add me to the ranks of folks who read daily but never post.

    I found this site after reading about evolution on the web. Then found the WEIT book through this site. I have learned so much from Jerry and the commenters. I offer marvel at the responses to the posts. You great thinkers (Jerry and commenters) have sharpened my critical thinking and reasoning skills immensely.

    I do not want any change. I have found no other web site like this. It’s perfect as is.

  46. It took awhile, but I have read all the comments — even the ones about the bake sale and the lovely pun-ny comments. Jerry, while I will read your posts wherever you go, I, for all the good reasons mentioned by many of the commenters, hope you choose not to go.

    I won’t go through/repeat the reasons I agree with, but I do think that in terms of branding, your uniqueness would be severely diluted by a move to Patheos. I can’t see much of a plus and only see, as others have mentioned, it being a plus for them.

    So, my wish is that you stay where you are. I love your website and your posts. The variety is fascinating and read most of them every day, though I originally came for the science. I also enjoy the comments, and find them among the best of any comments I read on any website or blog.

    Cheers

  47. A new reader here. I think I looked at Patheos once. It is so ugly I would never think of going back even if there was something good to read there. I get depressed in ugly surroundings and have no reason to subject myself to them. Additionally, I agree with all the people who say a “faith channel” is not appropriate for this blog.

  49. I read WEIT daily, I like the wide variety of topics Prof. CC covers and won’t stop reading just because he has rearranged his living room. I follow a couple of Patheos bl*ggers and much prefer the WEIT layout but it’s the content that matters most to me.

  50. I just made my first visit to patheos.com and my immediate reaction was that I had used the wrong URL. (Should I have used patheos.net? patheos.org?) How on earth could WEIT fit in here? The vast majority of ads and headlines on the landing page were pro-religion or pro-woo. Nothing scientific or skeptic-oriented was immediately apparent.

    I come to WEIT as a destination on a pretty much daily basis. I like Jerry’s pointers to other interesting things on the internet but that’s not ultimately why I’m here. And I’m definitely not here to be barraged by ads for Walmart, Dunkin’ Donuts, Angelina Jolie’s latest movie, Nissan cars, or by a clutter of teasers for other blogs (the word patheos uses, after all) on what is, overall, a pretty ridiculous site.

    I’m interested WEIT because it is about WEIT, not because it also happens to be about WAIT (Why Atheism Is True). Being on patheos would give the strong impression that the site is more about WAIT than WEIT. Not to mention the impression that it is a blog and not a website.

    (Plus patheos pages are cluttered and slow to load.)

    Having said all that, of course I would still follow WEIT.

  52. My thought is, if it ain’t broke…

    Ultimately your decision, Prof. Coyne. I will follow wherever you go.

    Thanks for all that you do.

  54. Join or not it makes no difference to me.

    Not everyone will be thrilled for or against. That is just how it is. Please yourself first.

    Lone wolves aren’t evolutionarily advantageous as opposed to lone tigers. They, as humans are, are pack animals. Or herd animals. We do best in groups not alone.

  56. I read The Friendly Atheist on Patheos. While I like his content, I don’t like the site.

    I read on my mobile phone, and the plethora of ads make that website extremely slow.

    The layout and speed of your current website on WordPress works much better.

    On the flipside, Hemant uses Disqus for the comments which sorts by most popular posts first, so you get to see the good posts without wading through screens of posts.

    I’m not sure what you’d have to gain my moving. It seems like upheaval for not much benefit.

      1. Indeed,who gets to decide which are the ‘good’ posts.
        I enjoy getting to know a bit about the posters on WEIT and the jokes and puns. It gets to be closer to a genuine community rather than someone deciding which are the best or most popular.There is a slight tendency to toe the party line here and I think it would be more so at patheos.

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