The people who run Patheos and its atheist channel have asked me to join that channel. I haven’t made any decision, nor am I yet even leaning one way or another. I thought, then, that I’d ask the readers how they feel about this, both to see if people might abscond (I don’t want to lose the friendly community we’ve built up) or gauge what they think of moving to a new place. Readers might help point out advantages and disadvantages that I haven’t thought of. The ones I have are below:
The issues are several. One is ads: I would have no choice about having them. The upside, of course, is extra income, but I’ve no real need for that. The downside is, well, ads, but people have ways to get around them.
The main possible advantage for me is extra readership, as we all like to get as many readers as we can, and for me that means good readers: ones that will contribute to the conversation. I’m told that with membership in the network such an increase would almost certainly happen. But that, too, has a downside, for right now I read almost every comment that is made, and am able to engage with readers; but if readership grows much more I wouldn’t be able to handle it and might have to use other folks as moderators
But a counter-consideration is that I like being a lone, adless wolf, although at the network I am assured I’d be able to post anything I want (I asked specifically about that). Nothing about the content would change, including posts about noms, cats, and boots along with the usual biology and heathen stuff. I would also be free to comment on material written by other members of the network.
Patheos also has technical support: I would get a redesign and be able to add new features, and all my past posts would be added to my site, though I don’t know in what form.
So please tell me what you think. As I said, I’m truly on the fence about this one, and I know that readers will be honest with their thoughts.
Time for dinner!
I would follow you and ‘the WEIT brand’ to wherever you decided to move to, if you did move.
However, the ads would be somewhat irritating by all accounts, and possibly off-putting for some.
I also appreciate the uniqueness of this website and love the friendly and inclusive independence that this facilitates.
Cheers,
Al Lee
The ads verge on burdensome. I hardly know where an article starts, picks up or stop.
Not sure it’s a good idea to be a science fish in the religious pond, even if it’s bigger than the nice little puddle you’re currently in.
Patheos is pretty much all about religion, including paganism, with an island of atheism. There is no science there.
I think that’s true. AFAIK, if Prof. Coyne moved there, his blog would be the only science based blog there. Possibly a negative for that community.
However, it may be that they are interested in attracting some science based blogs.
I noticed that the Pathos website has Atheism listed under the “Faith” heading. I am a big advocate of the notion that faith is little more than a cognitive disorder masquerading as a virtue. I would suggest that you not give any credence to the notion that Atheism is just like any other “faith.” Just sayin’…
I hope you decide not to migrate to Patheos. The signal to noise ratio is horrible. There are too many doodads competing for your attention. The WordPress platform is much better for enabling fuller consideration of ideas.
I personally don’t care for Disqus, which patheos uses. Also, I do like the nature of the community that’s grown here. Patheos seems to attract a broader audience, and thus a broader range of, well, less-well-informed, opinions. Of course, if there are advantages as far as technical support, further readership, links with other Patheos sites maybe. I find the tone at this site is different (poth content and readers’ comments), and (speaking for myself) I go to each for something different. This site is not just about atheism/religion, but science as well, so in that way it feels like it’s not a perfect fit for Patheos.
So I’m comfortable with the status quo. But, that said, I’ll read WEIT no less than I do now if you were to move.
So I have been perusing the Patheos bl*gs and I have found that I you can opt out on specific advertisers, but as yet I see no way to block the ads entirely. There is an option to opt-out on most ads, but those are simply replaced by other ads. The ad space seems to take about 1/3 of the screen real estate.
I use chrome’s add blocker and don’t see any adds on Patheos.
I would have to try that, but I suspect (do not know) that the area for the ads is still there. That is, there would be a wide column on the left and right where the ads would be so the posting is squeezed in the middle.
It is. I get two large black cloumns, but no ads.
*columns
Interesting. On IE with an adblocker, on a 15″ laptop, I get a narrow (3/4″) blank column on each side, and a few blank boxes at the top that disappear when you scroll down. I hadn’t noticed the blank columns before you mentioned them.
Chrome with AdBlock extension.
I think I’m more or less used to large portions of the screen being blocked now.
Like a schmuck I didn’t have adblocker installed so I just installed one via extensions.
I don’t know if “charming” is a word that is often applied to websites, but WEIT is just that – a charming, amusing, informative place that never fails to make me laugh or educate me (except for the times you show snakes; I look away then). But, as so many have said here today, it is your website and must be your choice. I will follow you anywhere and I will fight the trolls!
After reading all the foregoing comments I
suggest that WEIT stay independent, the way it is.
I agree with the others. Stay independent. The charm of the WEIT brand would be lost if you moved to Patheos.
Please don’t go.it is anonymous at Patheos. Too much stuff to let anything develop.i like the immense variety on WEIT. It is like being a guest of an enormously generous and imaginative host.the anonymity at Patheos has a certain cold clutteredness.the plethora of topics and the insistent wordiness at ‘P’ are not a balanced diet.
I do not know what you would get out of it-you already have an astonishing readership for a website and your influence spreads thru those who read you.your readership might increase but influence would likely be diluted.And comment/conversation quality and relevance diminish.
When I read PCC’s post, I was 50/50. After reading all the comments, I’m now on the “no, please don’t move” for all the reasons given above, mainly around ads, autonomy, and readability.
Having said that, I’ll still read WEiT regardless of where it’s located.
Some things I’ll add –
I think belonging to a blog network can impact how your blog is perceived – this can be a good thing or bad thing. As a lone wolf your reputation, your brand, or whatever you want to call it is your own.
Another question to consider – when a blog is imported to Pathos – do the comments come along too? There are so many great comments on this blog and you wouldn’t want to lose them.
The website and community here are rare, probably unique. My only qualms are around the effort needed to maintain them, I was bereft when Uncle Eric decided that he didn’t work for me and took off. I have never found another site like this one, it really is a tremendous achievement considering how many seem to be trying for something similar.
I didn’t get where I am today by joining Patheos.
😀
I follow you on twitter so that’s how I know when you post a new article. I like to read on the go, so I mostly read blogs from my iPhone. Patheos’ formatting sucks on my phone, so i prefer you not switch.
But that’s just me.
+1
My vote is no. This site is a real jewel, sleek, uncluttered, with a strong community that continues to grow in number. My strongest concern, however, is that I regard WEIT as primarily a biology site, a site devoted to science. Yes, there has been a lot of discussion here about atheism, faith, and assorted theological matters, especially in the context of the book in the offing. But the “conversations about faith” here are secondary. I think a move to Patheos would compromise the view that Ceiling Cat has so strongly endorsed: science and faith are incompatible.
When I read “I would get a redesign” I recoiled. Maybe because the final straw for me in giving up Freethoughtblogs was their latest redesign.
I was going to say to stay on wordpress. But then it erased my post.
If one reads WEIT long enough one ends up being a “good reader” (or one decides to leave). The more the merrier, I’d move.
I LOVE not having ads on this site and have recommended it without reservation to several of my biology/atheist friends, which I don’t do with other sites which feature ads, etc. I can understand wanting to increase readership, but I (and others, I suspect) forward entries from this site.
I hate ads.
Current website is simple and effective.
I would be against the move in general. The ads are a huge factor in the user experience, and also a major obstacle in the way of allowing readers to engage with and comment on the website. I don’t spend any time anymore on blogs/websites that appear as members of these types of networks mainly because of the ads and the commenters. When you are going to read an article on a scientific topic and are greeted on the way with an advertisement to find out what your horoscope means, the whole experience becomes soured and cheapened. Being a member of a network like Patheos will not allow you any say over who gets to advertise on your site (at least, as far as I know). (Also, I’ve always wondered how regional these advertisements are. Is it possible that a Kentucky-based reader could be reading one of your posts and seeing an advertisement for the Creation Museum at the same time?)
The types of commenters these networks attract are also a huge factor against the move for me. Right now, this is one of the only websites where I will actually read the comments (sometimes all of them) to a post that I want to learn more about. Large network sites I treat much like Youtube when I encounter them: don’t read the comments. Way too much garbage. Way too much personal crowing going on. I’m sure I would continue to read your site if it moved, but I would also almost certainly stop commenting.
The independence of this site is impressive and welcoming, an oasis in the internet. It would be sad to see that disappear.
I finally looked at Patheos – what a mish-mash of a site. I don’t see the ads, and even got rid of the annoying ‘do you like what you’re reading’ thing, but even so it’s just cluttered with god and religion. I doubt I’ll be back. Also, I think if you still try to police the comments you’ll be kept very busy – or have to use moderators as you mentioned. Strong vote for don’t move.
•Being on a Christian site, *has* to dilute your message.
•Do *your* rules conflict with any of theirs?
• You would become a “column” on their site? (Seems to be that or a bl0g.)
I just revisited Patheos for the first time in a while – oof. The ads, great Cthulhu the ads! Even worse than I remember –
The left pop in, videos running on their own, links to completely unrelated clickbait articles. And just awful design – in terms of usability and visually.
It will only become worse in the future.
Lots of good comments here. It sounds like you would be shutting this page down and moving everything over. Since you cover both science and religion here, as well as stuff like cowboy boots, cats, noms, and music, and “Patheos” seems mainly focused around religion, I wonder if the potential increased exposure is worth the questionable “fit”. Yes, they said you can write about anything, but I wonder if they have thought it through as well. But ultimately it’s your decision.
After looking a bit at the Patheos home page (as opposed to a particular blog like Hemant’s) I’m now firmly in the “please don’t move there” camp. Others have listed good reasons to say here. For me, it comes down to the flavor of the place. Despite the atheist blogs they host, by far the bulk of the place reeks of faith and nonsense.
I think WEIT would lose it’s sole at that plaice, to echo yesterday’s comment stream.
Jeeze. I just clicked the “Shop Patheos Press” button.
Save me, Ceiling Cat!
That subthread of puns was truly epic!
Some fine fishing that was.
I hate ad supported sites. Not because I oppose ads, but because they make mobile browsing hell, and because most ad supported sites won’t even load on my Kindle Fire.
Since you asked.
By the way, I also read Hemant’s blog. I get very annoyed with the popups and ads. It’s not the worst I’ve encountered (Examiner.com is), but it’s bad.
My adblocker seems to be doing its job, so purely based on the commenting system and the dreaded facebookificationized hell of voted discussions, I say nay.
I’d still read, but I don’t think I’d be as active discussion wise.
I’ve enjoyed this site for several years.
Patheos turns me off, both in content and ads (see many comments above).
However, I would not mind seeing WEIT do something different and become engaged with varying audiences. Also, I am not opposed to all ads and I would think you could do something beneficial or just enjoyable with a little extra money. And the time you obviously put in is deserving of it.
Did I mention that this is one of the most attractive and usable blogs on the net?
The only feature this blog lacks is a good search. I’d like to be able to see if anyone responds to my old posts.
It’s hardly perfect, but a Google search of your user ID with “site:whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com” will get most of your comments. You can also add other terms, or a time range, if you’re looking for a particular one.
I like the design and feel of this web site. I read some on Patheos, but the reading pleasure is tempered by the advertising and by their cluttered format.
Since you’re not in it for the money, the only payoff could be more readers, and I’d check to see that is was true before considering a move. It seems to me that you’re popular here, with lots of thoughtful readers and comments. There might be a lot of slap-dash comments on Patheos, driving the current readers away from the comments, at least.
Like most people here I would follow you to Patheos and still read everything you write. I like the community you have built here. You compare this comment section to your living room and it certainly feels like it. I’m comfortable hanging out here and drinking my tea with what I think are friends. But I have no reason to be cynical about why that couldn’t happen at Patheos. The commenters here are a great extension to your website. At Patheos the comment section feels like any other large comment section, more of a pub atmosphere and the loudest people get heard the most, which isn’t always bad. But here it’s the earliest commenters that get heard the most. I don’t like the idea of having comments rated, it would bring in a competitiveness between commenters.
Does moving to Patheos also mean that WEIT will become a blog with a link that is something like patheos.com/blogs/whyevolutionistrue?
I like what happens here, and the way the discussion plays out. I’m not certain more readers will lead to more quality discussion.
I think i would follow WEIT there, but i don’t follow anyone else there. So, it would be a win for them also for all of us to hop over there a few times a day, and i wonder if jerry gets as much of a reader bump as patheos does.
I vote against the move.
You have already had over 200 comments on this question. Do not see how you read all of this.
I visited that site for the first time to take a look. I do not care for it at all but then I don’t spend that much time on a bunch of sites on the computer. I look at yours and my email.
I looked at one article over there and then the comments. One guy must have commented 25 times. It’s ridiculous. Since this is the computer age, why allow that kind of thing. If someone tries to make more than 3 comments the system should refuse….sorry talky boy, you reached your limit.
Comments to me should be as short and to the point as possible and it looks like you or your help must manage this.
Old addage: If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Good grief! just visited Patheos for the first and probably last time, it makes Freethought blogs look good. Please dont go there Jerry.
My vote NO! *unless*
– you take the atheism discussions to Patheos, but
– you keep this site for cats/Hili/wildlife/evobio/noms/travelogue – i.e., topics besides atheism, which together make this site so special. The occasional evo bio discussions alone make this site priceless and inimitable, UMHO.
It is not worth giving all this up for a little more exposure at Patheos! And reading through that site makes me uneasy. Your contributions would help it a great deal, but I’m also afraid they’d (ironically) get lost in some lower-quality exchanges.
Why would you want to be listed under the section on Patheos called Faith Channels? That’s just plain wrong.
My vote is for you to stay here. I don’t really know, or care, what Patheos is, I read the Friendly Atheist and find the ads very irritating. I dislike the idea and hassle of having to encumber my system with ad blocking software. (Plus, I am an old f*** and, as such, ideologically opposed to change.)
To be honest, I think a move to patheos would undermine what’s so special about this place. It feels like a refuge from the rampant noise and commercialism elsewhere.
I can’t imagine (for example) the wildlife pictures having the same resonance if surrounded by ads and other clutter.
I hope you stick around, but wish you the best if you do go.
I have not read all 200+ comments on this thread (and will not be ticking the subscribe box). Those I have read seem predominantly opposed to the move, for reasons I largely agree with (ads, trolls, dilution of your brand).
I try to read every post by Jerry, but my time for doing so is limited, and if a post already has more than about 40 or 50 comments by the time I see it, I typically do not read or participate in that comment thread.
My guess is that moving to Patheos will increase comment volume to the point where I’ll no longer have time to participate in any comment threads. If the move makes sense for other reasons, don’t let me stop you. But be aware that a flood of new commenters will likely drive out some of the older ones.
“But be aware that a flood of new commenters will likely drive out some of the older ones.”
Agreed. The commenters will also be of less quality, guaranteed.
I read nearly all the comments on this website because of the quality, not the quantity. I would not be willing to wade through the comments to find the good ones at Patheos.
I would not be willing to wade through the ads either. I know others say they will endure them for the sake of reading you, but I know that I would soon, and sadly, unfollow your new site. The good would soon be overwhelmed by the bad- all negatives mentioned above.
All that I love about this site will be damaged by the move. My advice is no.
I like where you’re at now. I’m not troubled with all the Ads at Patheos when I visit the Friendly Atheist, but I use Fire fox with the appropriate extensions and addons to block such Ads, but I can see where the ad pop ups etc. could be a deterrent for traffic. I’ve read comments from people on Facebook that AVOID the Friendly Atheist site for that very reason. It is a legitimate concern and I would take it into strong consideration before making such a move.
Meant “Firefox”
WEIT should get out to a wider audience but why at Patheos and not at some other with less/no ads, or why not create one with CC presiding.
Would you still move there if you knew Deepakity planned to do the same?
The adds suck. Please do not move. I do not read The Friendly Atheist due to adds and clunky navigation, and it used to be one of my favorite sites.
The consensus seems to be maybe.
Slightly leaning to the left.
Not sure I know my left from right in this matter, but the variety of opinions is interesting.
Aye, it seems most of us wouldn’t cut it as hermit crabs.
I try to avoid shell games… 😉
Keep your eye on the crab. 🙂
Hmm, the consensus seems much more negative than “maybe” to me. Will someone please sort through all the comments so we have stats to work with? 😀
In our group, the visionary is also the volunteer… 😉
Thankfully, I was saved by someone downthread.
😀
I’m sure going to remember that phrase, though!
I would claim it as mine, but it belongs to another… all the best… 🙂
Already done somewhere in this thread & I made a pie chart (mmmmm pie!) to go with it. The data may not reflect some of the newer comments but I suspect the percentage is the same.
I like your page as it is but, I would seek you out where ever you decide to go. I’ve gained knowledge and increased my vocabulary from reading your posts. Reading articles from gentleman such as you, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens (I miss him so), Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett (just to name a few) has helped change me, thank you all. Another example of the value of your blog for me is today. I didn’t know Patheos existed or that they had an atheist channel. I will add them to my bookmarks. As for ads, I hate them, they are the true internet virus and slow my computer down but I would put up with them to read your stuff.
That is my story as well, and it all started for me with Richard Dawkins.
Now a website that brought the Horsemen, and Jerry, Steven Pinker, Sean Carroll, Lawrence Krauss – or people of their stature – that would be an enterprise worth sacrificing independence for! Anything less would be a step down, I think, and a net loss to the community.
Skimmed only half of the comments so apologies if it was mentioned towards the end…
What happens if you dislike Patheos and wish to move elsewhere? Will they own your writing? Will you technically own it but be unable to move it? Can you do regular backups of your writing, and will you do that regularly or will you rely on the goodwill and charity of your hosts?
WordPress is pretty good about exporting to a common format so you can move to a commercial wordpress site (if you want a different domain name) or a different tool entirely. If you go to Patheos, you may exist at their whim with your writing getting locked up.
If you do decide to leave and you can take your writing, all the links will be dead. Maybe it’s not a huge deal to you, not sure.
I vote No, do not move.
Just a few reasons:
Your website is a welcome relief from blog networks.
I do not like being forced to click on “[Read more…]” after the teaser portion of every article is shown, rather than reading down all of your entries in full on your website.
Ads are a huge negative for the viewer even with attempts to block them.
Jerry, I have nothing original to contribute, but just wanted to add my voice to those who say ‘don’t move’. The USP of this wonderful site will be undermined by the LCD of the rest of Patheos. Stay special!
Steve’s words are what I would have written.
GMTA
Seems to me that you get a LOT of visitors as is, but perhaps more at patheos. I find the ads annoying (pop ups etc) and they are a bit (okay, very) clickbaity.
Also, you might have no choice but to refer to your website as a “blog”!!!
Please don’t go, for all the reasons given above by your thoughtful and entertaining readers. I read WEIT several times a day and enjoy everything – cats, science, atheism, boots, noms, travel, Hili, optical illusions, etc., and of course, the comments.
You forgot the nightjars! But maybe you can’t see them ( as I can’t:-)
There are no nightjars. Matthew just bribes some of us to pretend they are there.
Aha! I knew it!
b&
Ha! Or perhaps it’s belief. Like the purple dragon in my garage? 🙂
Thanks for asking for feedback. I enjoy following your website and check in every day. You have something unique going here; from your articles to the community that follows you and contributes to the conversation. Something of that could be lost in the clutter that is Patheos. I would urge you to decline but still follow you what ever decision you make. My two cents worth.
I don’t think you should move. On your own site you have more control over the look, feel and tone. Promises might be made regarding what is allowed but that can change as people change or the leadership changes. With your own site you only answer to yourself.
If you move onto a site with other writers then you have that association, for better or for worse. I’m not familiar with the site but considering what happened with FTB I think it’s better to stay where you are judged solely by your own words.
Extra readers would be the main benefit but I’m not sure you have too many to gain. As I understand you’ve got one of the most popular websites already so I don’t think there are too many people interested in evolution or atheism that haven’t heard of you. Those that don’t follow you now aren’t going to start because you move.
I know that I live off of the grid. I don’t have, nor want any kind of cellphone; I don’t have, nor want an I-pad; I don’t do, and don’t want to do Facebook, and so on. I find that more and more of the websites that I have been supporting for many years, are no longer available to me; unless I give in and join the herd. No thanks. Stay where you are Jerry, if just for me!
I’m easy. I’ll go wherever you go.
I do have trouble reading the comments. They don’t seem to load for me.
I would still want to read WEIT wherever it’s based, but I really like the ad-free simplicity, distinctive ambience and civilised tone of this site. Plus I love it for the scientific articles, the wildlife photos, the food, and of course the cats – not just for the hardcore atheism. Unless there is some compelling reason to go, my preference would be for WEIT to remain independent and maintain its distinct identity.
Hi Jerry,
as for myself, I would certainly still read your posts, wherever you post them.
But I have to admit, I would regret leaving this – that’s somehow your own WEIT project, with its own look & feel, just focussed on the message. I just looked over at the Patheos site, and especially the ads are quite annoying. Even if you provide the same content, it would be very different.
I understand all the upsides it would have for you, and maybe you’ll really some more attract rather interesting people (in addition to the many you have “here”).
Lacking a better expression, I’d say, your project would become more “arbitrary” if you’d moved it to Patheos. Here it’s just you, which is why we’re all here and not there.
Best, Robert
I lean towards “no”. I read some Patheos blogs, particularly “Friendly Atheist”, but I always considered WEIT somehow classier.
Well, there are a lot of people against the ads, but I would like to point out the other factors to consider. You would get extra revenue, and although you say you do not need the money it is worth weighing what you might do with the extra money. Perhaps giving more to charity (like to help out homeless cats) or to some other worthwhile causes.
There are much more effective ways to exploit the readership for worthy causes than to sell their eyeballs to the highest bidder.
b&
Bake sale I say! Bake sale! 🍰🍪
…and you just know that there’ll be pake….
b&
I am ‘with’ the consensus on the move. That is, WEIT would have ads, and Patheos is mostly about religion — implying that atheism (and science) are mere ‘alternative’ ways of believing. But I am pointing out some of the positives since there are positives. Jerry can decide and we can adapt well enough.
A potentially ‘interesting’ wrinkle is that there will be new commenters that are pro-religion. Some of these will be inane trolls to be pointedly ignored, but some can be interesting ‘fresh meat’. We may find out.
I’d rather see Jerry get the extra money doing something he likes – writing for New Republic or other professional stuff. From what I’ve seen of Jerry’s posts, I suspect ads are not something he likes much.
Besides, why not take a page out of Putin’s playbook – why be a channel when you can own the whole network. Muahahahaha!
New Republic might be an example of what can happen when the bean counters take over a labor of love.
Is that the story behind the upheaval? Sigh.
Given that you could affectionately be described as a rogue; that you say you don’t need the advertising money; and it is unsure how you profit from more readers, I don’t yet see a good reason to make the move. Indeed, the standalone is “classier”. I take that you don’t really want to become a conventional “blogger” anyway? 😉
Since you already do the work of herding the cats with interesting treats each day, it’s more than fair when people contribute in some ways, whether you move or whether you stay. As such, I am totally fine with advertising or a “buy me a coffee” button somewhere to support this project. And I would also not mind the ads at Patreon if you chose to make the move.
I like the site you have here as it is, however, a fresh upgrade would be very nice, too. There is an abundance of themes (free and paid) and you can ask your readers for that to contribute what you need as well, such as graphics and colour schemes for example. Many, if not most of your articles have images and you would benefit from a modern up-to-date wordpress theme that utlizies that more (there are now 2,800+). Typcially, they can be installed with a press of a button and are customizable fairly easily. And you can test it on a separate blog first until you are satisfied, then apply the theme to this one. From quick perusal, I like ones _array.is/ for example.
For the record, I would also support an unobtrusive ‘buy me a coffee’ or ‘Lucchese/Boulet fund’ button — noms & boots ain’t cheap!
I’d prefer that option to intrusive advertising.
I would vote for you to keep WEIT as it is. It’s a great site already. Moving could bring pressures to change it. You said it best yourself.
“…I like being a lone, adless wolf…”
Glad to finally see you embracing your inner canine!
Not sure, the ads on patheos aren’t too obtrusive and if it gets you income I say why not?
On the other hand this is a “science” blog, so maybe it doesn’t fit the best on patheos.
I’m a bit late to the party, but here’s my two cents’ worth, just in case Jerry is still reading and considering:
1. I’m agnostic (heh) about the Patheos ‘brand.’ Don’t care one way or the other whether you associate yourself with it.
2. I truly hate ads. I fully understand when folks want to get paid for their intellectual efforts, so I support bloggers and website owners who want to go that route. But if you don’t need the money to support yourself/be prosperous, then my vote would be: please, please, please, do not subject us to ads.
Stay with no ads, please!
Science should be uncompromising about truth. Ads avoid truth as far as they can get away with. They corrupt. Avoid.
I think of WEIT as a science blog. So, I don’t think it would be good to move to a site dedicated to religion.
I, for one, have always found the tech support at WordPress exceptionally good.
Moving to a blog (yes! Blog!) network that hosts Adam Lee could hardly be considered a promotion for you, Prof.CC. Frankly, they need you much more than you need them. If you do go, I will follow you with gritted teeth, but I can’t promise to enjoy it as much as I do here.
I hope you’re not serious!
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
If you do move, you will lose viewers. Such drastic changes always lose followers. You can’t go by what just the most loyal followers post. At Patheos your followers will be used for commercial purposes by being exposed to ads, clutter, and possibly data collection. It’s a whole change of purpose and not a positive.
I think I’d prefer that things stay as they are. Ads etc., but I suspect additional emails might come with the ads. Still…
OK, I’ll say something nice about Patheos. I just discovered that Mr. Deity has a diary there!
Funny. I also did not know that until I saw it
today.
It certainly ain’t broke why fix it?
The website is fine as it is. Stay the lone wolf. Please!
This is, to me, primarily a website about evolution. And why it’s true. I enjoy the cat/nom/boot posts too but I like the science most of all. I may not comment much, but I read them all.
Patheos is a religious site with a few token atheist blogs/diaries. It means literally the path to god.
Please stay on WordPress Professor Coyne.
As with the many others who have written, “whither thou goest, I will go”, but I’d prefer that we stay here. After personal emails, I read WEiT because of the quality of the content and comments. I do not read anything on Patheos except the Friendly Atheist (depending on the topic.) The discussion on most other non-WEiT sites is not as thoughtful,thought-provoking or intelligent as takes place on WEiT. I would hate to have the addition of some (or many) of the Patheos-type comments.
I lean towards no. I read several patheos blogs, and would read you there, but somehow WEIT seems to be in a different league.
A couple of atheist blogs on patheos appear to have multiple regular contributors, some of whom have their own blog also. A possible middle ground compromise if you want to try it out might be to team up with a few other scientists and create a new science blog for patheos atheist. This would mean an occassional contribution but would leave WEIT untouched. You could bring WEIT over later if you liked it, and bow out gracefully if you don’t.
1. For either:
a. Same great content.
b. Organizing atheists is like herding cats. On one hand, stay, on the other hand, break the mold.
2. For staying:
a. WEIT is a better source for science articles.
b. WEIT works better on my RSS Reader than Patheos.
c. Patheos has ads.
d. Patheos recently forced articles to multiple pages (more clicks, more ads).
e. The friendly atheist seems less friendly and stranger, eg., he thinks it is ok for Sikh students to wear their knives in school. I am not looking forward to the potential increase in infighting.
f. Fewer readers, more personal.
g. WEIT is simple and easy to navigate. Patheos is not difficult to navigate but more cluttered. Until individual blogs are found, they need to be searched for.
h. On WEIT the perception is more of an inductive arguement: The evidence for Evolution and contradictory to faith claims is so strong it is perverse to withold provisional assent. On Patheos the perceptions is of a deductive arguement: Atheism is true therefore Evolution is necessarily true.
3. For going to Patheos
a. Patheos is a better outlet for less scientific articles
b. More readers, broader audience.
b. The site will get an updated look.
Unknowns
1. Can you enforce Da Roolz! and ban people on Patheos?
2. Concern for readership and response to the harder science articles has already been expressed. Will a larger and broader readership on Patheos be a cause for even fewer hard science articles? In my opinion I would hate to see the number of hard science articles reduced. I would hate to see WEIT go the way of Scientific American.
“I would hate to see WEIT go the way of Scientific American.”
Their blog network just collapsed today…new editorial controls, and booting off many old bloggers.
Sheesh! I’m afraid to check in there, now.
If you can live with being in the “company” of windbags like Adam Lee, go for it.
Please don’t join Patheos. Your website is pure, and it defies categorization. Putting it under the line “hosting the conversation on faith” alongside a bunch of blogs about religion and atheism would be like caging a beautiful wild animal. Seriously, right now when I come to your website, I feel like I’m going on a safari to see a majestic beast in its natural habitat. But if you join Patheos, I will feel like I’m visiting a zoo to see the Jerry Coyne exhibit, which will be right between The Friendly Atheist and The Accommodationist. Also, I think the problem with advertisements is much deeper than just how annoying they are, though it’s difficult to articulate. I think this could be a case in which making a list of pros and cons might not lead to the best decision. The intangibles are just too important. That’s just my opinion, of course. Having said that, I will still be a regular reader even if you move.
“it defies categorization”
It’s alone in a subgenre of one, as they say about Tod Browning’s Freaks.
The jazz–cats-and-other-animals–noms–cowboy-boots–optical-illusion–evolution–atheist subgenre.
/@
So in the middle of a long posting about free will and the intricate debate between the various camps we see:
Do You Have Hemorhoids??
Kind of deflates things, I suppose.
Just my 2 cents. I used to read Hemant’s blog daily, but the ads disrupted the flow (and also seemed to slowdown my computer’s ability to process the page). If you want more readers or more money, I guess it makes sense for you to make the switch, but otherwise I like this website just the way it is now.
Either place is fine by me.
In end, I hope that you make the decision that works best for you (& other factors that elude us may enter into the equation). For what it’s worth, however, I concur with the myriad anti-Patheos reasons outlined by others.
The most significant drawbacks, in my opinion, are the issues surrounding commenting.
You’ve built up an exceptional community here, Prof. CC — WEIT comments are overwhelmingly of a higher calibre than the actual posts on many bl*gs. Switching to Patheos could bring more readers, but I strongly suspect that comment quality would decrease. In my experience, Patheos tends to attract sizeable numbers of trolls (N.O.S.), & tone-trolling Social Justice Warriors™.
A larger concern is Disqus which, in addition to be a general pain, seems prone to technical issues, including occasionally losing comments. (Disqus comments are not ‘part of’ the post as they are on WEIT. They are stored remotely, on Disqus’ server(s), & must be loaded from there by the viewer, bit by bit … Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t). If Disqus ever goes offline, all comments made using it will disappear from the web.
There are also privacy concerns with Disqus. The service tracks users (for ad targeting), & facilitates stalking by allowing users to covertly ‘follow’ each other. If someone follows you on Disqus, they will be notified of every comment you make, across the web. (You will not be notified: Disqus stalkers remain anonymous to those they are stalking).
Further, Disqus exploits websites using it via Blackhat SEO techniques (http://luke.asia/2014/disqus-worlds-biggest-blackhat-seo/).
These points may or may not concern you, but it is good to be aware of them (links available upon request).
If you do move to Patheos, I will certainly follow, but I probably won’t comment there.
Yes, I’d forgotten to mention how much I hate Disqus. I’m a fairly infrequent commenter here. But my comment frequency will drop to around zero, and then only as a “guest”, if I have to use Disqus.
Yes, as I mentioned above somewhere, that commenting system is buggy. I can now comment under my own name or under a second person’s name who just appeared out of nowhere, a real person whose life I could mess up if I were so inclined. Not cool to have a system which makes those kinds of mistakes.
Yes. From what I gather, it isn’t an error: display names do not need to be unique on Disqus. Plus, third parties can comment using your email address, & there is little you can do about it (which, in my opinion, is rather unsettling).
I like the free commenting system here. I don’t have an account on Disqus, Facebook, Twitter, or Google+, so it seems I simply *cannot* comment on Patheos. I found no way to comment as a guest, this would mean the end of me commenting WEIT (as seldom as I do it).
I didn’t know about Patheos up until two weeks ago when I found “What Would JT Do?” (wwjtd) through an episode of TheThinkingAtheist podcast. I miss being able to comment JT’s great articles badly.
Finally, I find Patheos’ layout not as sleak and eye-friendly as the current WEIT. Patheos looks more like a commercial news site.
So that’s a NO, PLEASE from this humble reader. <:)
Post scriptum: It is most excellent of you to solicit feedback from us regarding this decision — not everyone treats their audience with such respect. Thank you, Prof. CC, for being so gracious.
I would have to add mine to the chorus of NO votes.
I suppose you could treat Patheos like you do Twi**er and just automatically cross-post there.
I agree with the sentiment that the comment quality will likely go down if you were to move. As many have said, I’ll read the articles but not the comments, if you move.
Please stay.
I really like this website; it has a great community feeling and loads of idiosyncratic appeal.
Most of this feeling is to do with the host and the high quality of the writing. But, I’m worried that something will be lost if this site moves to a new home with lots of new readers and advertisements.
Of course Professor Ceiling Cat should do whatever is best for him. But my vote is firmly in the “stay here” camp.
I stopped following anyone on Patheos a long time ago. It was an uncomfortable place.
This site is much better. Patheos is laden with adds and the fellowship does not suit the personality of WEIT. Friendly Atheist is really nice, but I am afraid Patheos, in general, would attract more harm than good and more work for JAC and that would mean less time to post great science.
Dear Dr J Coyne,
I am a retired Physicist and I you are my favourite in ‘evolution’ and related thoughts.
My sincere wish is not to go to ‘Patheos’ which is just too much.
Your present one is clean, simple easy to follow and has the ‘personal’ feeling about it.
Also it is only and all yours and brings across the warmth and enthusiasm you fell for science and humanism.
If the move to ‘Patheos’ happens it will so much else to look at and be distracted.
For me you are the best where you are and your database of followers will be increasing because you talk sense and not drive by self aggrandisement.
Best Regards, Seasons Greeting And A Happy New Year, to you, your family
and Readers
Because I’m one of those people, I did an informal count of the fors, againsts, and neutrals. I started with comment 183 by sjl and worked my way up. Here’s what I came up with:
For (Yes, go to Patheos!): 4
Against (No, please no!): 127
Neutral (Meh, whatever dude.): 19
I had to do a little bit of interpretation on some posts, and I’m sure there’s some margin of error, but even with that the Againsts greatly outweigh other responses.
Oh, the comment numbers change. I started counting at the comment by sjl posted December 15, 2014 at 5:29 pm.
heh. I just did the same — I *had* to know the percentage. 😁
Nice! I hope our numbers are roughly in agreement.
Yup. 80–85% opposed.
Here is what that looks like graphically
Yeah – that’s even better!
nice! — & fast, too!
Yay! We have pie!
Bake sale?
Mmmmm pie for the bake sale!
I’m gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest that we can confidently reject the null hypothesis.
🙂 If I still had my work computer with mini tab & would have run the stats. I could have with Excel but it is more work. However, I’ve often argued that with small data sets like this, a pie graph gets the point across even better (much to the chagrin of some data heads I worked with).
You’d be going to a website where the whole ambiance is explicitly accommodationist. Maybe you would get more readers, but with all the spiritual clickbait and commercial graffiti, how many would resist the distractions and actually take the time to think about what you wrote after they read it? Just because your website isn’t defaced with all the usual doo-dads doesn’t mean it has to be redesigned. It’s fine as it is.
Yes. While individual blogs there are great (like the newly discovered Mr. Deity Diary, the overall site reeks of accords toon. … Gaack.
Damn iPhone autocorrect. Accommodation was the word.
…and here I was thinking it had something to do with Roger Rabbit acting as a diplomat….
b&
What was the iPhone thinking? That doesn’t even make sense! We really need AI even if Stephen Hawking thinks it will kill us – at least we will communicate clearly. 😀
Careful ’bout that…it could well be that clear communication actually is what would precipitate catastrophe! I mean, can you imagine how long the world would survive if we all knew what really was on Dick Cheney’s mind?
b&
He’d probably accidentally shoot the AI anyway.
Yeah, but only in the face. And, besides…Cheney’d shoot anybody he thought was human.
b&
Funny, my friend said something about a magazine called Guns & Gardens. I told her that you never know when you are going to have to stand your ground in a garden. This sounds like something Cheney would subscribe to.
Hey, those aphids are something to watch out for! Silent and deadly!
…if you’re a cabbage….
Won’t somebody please think of the Second Amendment rights of the broccoli? Brussels sprouts are every bit as deserving of protection as any other Belgian!
b&
Didn’t Bush senior have something against broccoli?
I think one snuck up on him and taunted him in a manner he found inexplicably cruel yet disturbingly insightful. The trauma of that event not only left him emotionally crippled for life but set the stage for his son’s own epic battle with a pretzel. Alas, the Bush Baby managed to win that fight, despite the heroic struggle put up by the bread product.
Then there’s the potatoe….
b&
Wasn’t the potatoe Dan Quayle, who wanted to go to Latin America to practice his Latin?
That’s the one.
I actually got hired to play a fanfare for his 50th birthday party, along with three other trumpeters. Nobody had any four-part trumpet fanfares on hand, so I scribbled out something inspired by John Williams a couple days ahead of time. Might still have the parts buried somewhere.
No, I have no clue what sort of person hires trumpeters to play a grand entrance fanfare for his own 50th birthday party. Not the sort of question a trumpeter tends to ask….
b&
Did you get to stay for the party and did they serve potatoees(sic)?
Stay? Ha! Musicians at such affairs are somewhere between the wait staff and the florist in the general hierarchy. You’re lucky if you get a chair you can sit in and enough light to be able to see the music. Oh, and you wouldn’t mind hanging around an extra two or three hours to play a bit more for us, would you? I’ll be happy to give you an extra $5, and I really don’t give a damn that you’ve got another gig you’re already booked for on the other side of town.
…er…sorry ’bout that….
Anyway, I don’t remember much about the gig…I think we just marched up onto a stage in a tent, started playing when our contact person pointed at us, finished playing after Quayle walked on stage, turned around, marched back off stage as he was making inane remarks, packed our horns, and went home. Typical of such gigs, save for the fact that it was for the dude’s own 50th birthday party….
b&
More likely potatoe’s…
I have Adblock and don’t see ads, but the Patheos site is still not very attractive or readable. I occasionally read the Friendly Atheist but I have never found anything else worth reading there. I am not a fan of change for change’s sake; I don’t think the possible benefits outweigh the obvious disadvantages. I would follow you there of course, but I like this site and the commenting protocols here.
Please do not join Patheos. They have so many ads, it slows the flow of informaiton to the point where I force quit. I have a limited amount of time – as do we all – and I can’t afford to wait several minutes to read an article while the site downloads ads I’m going to ignore. Stay with wordpress, unless it is significantly to your advantage to switch.
I don’t often read anything on Patheos, don’t really care to. I came here first and foremost for the science, not the atheism, and Patheos is focused on religion. By moving, I think it would appear that the science aspect of this site would be losing even more ground than it already has. That said, it’s really about how many people you think you can gain versus lose, and the tech aspects you mentioned, and how that will improve your site. I’m sure most here would follow you over.
Regardless, Prof., let me say thanks for the work you’ve done in the last several years since I’ve been reading. You were the first site (bL*g-type thing) I’d ever followed and you led me to many more, so whatever you choose, I just wanted to say thank you.
I’ll follow WEIT if it moves. I hope you continue linking to it from Twitter. That’s really the only way I go to it.
For mobile viewing, the App called “Pocket” is available to your readers for stripping out ads and other readability improvements. It also lets you archive postings according to category.
Don’t join Patheos. This blog is good the way it is.
I’m going to read your posts wherever you end up. I appreciate not having to look at ads on this site, but you put a lot of work into it–if you can get paid for it, you probably should. If you don’t need the money, donate it to wild cat conservation.
I also vote no re joining Patheos.
This site is invaluable all by itself. No need to become just another brick in someone else’s wall in order to gain more clout.
Besides, your own remarks on the possibilities of obtaining greater income (nice, but not needed) and more readers (but will they be good readers?) seem to support this verdict.
Tweaks, updates, new layout ideas and even radical changes that come up from time to time are good to explore — as long as you are the final decision-maker.
But, that aside, it seems to me that the Patheos option falls into the since-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it category.
This whole thread is a bit long for me to read right now. My position is that if patheos opens up wider readership for Prof Ceiling Cat, then just let them copy your WEIT writings. If you have to write special articles for patheos which results in extra work for you, I’m not so sure it’s worth it.