Should I join Patheos?

December 15, 2014 • 9:04 am

The people who run Patheos and its atheist channel have asked me to join that channel. I haven’t made any decision, nor am I yet even leaning one way or another. I thought, then, that I’d ask the readers how they feel about this, both to see if people might abscond (I don’t want to lose the friendly community we’ve built up) or gauge what they think of moving to a new place. Readers might help point out advantages and disadvantages that I haven’t thought of. The ones I have are below:

The issues are several.  One is ads: I would have no choice about having them.  The upside, of course, is extra income, but I’ve no real need for that. The downside is, well, ads, but people have ways to get around them.

The main possible advantage for me is extra readership, as we all like to get as many readers as we can, and for me that means good readers: ones that will contribute to the conversation. I’m told that with membership in the network such an increase would almost certainly happen. But that, too, has a downside, for right now I read almost every comment that is made, and am able to engage with readers; but if readership grows much more I wouldn’t be able to handle it and might have to use other folks as moderators

But a counter-consideration is that I like being a lone, adless wolf, although at the network I am assured I’d be able to post anything I want (I asked specifically about that). Nothing about the content would change, including posts about noms, cats, and boots along with the usual biology and heathen stuff. I would also be free to comment on material written by other members of the network.

Patheos also has technical support: I would get a redesign and be able to add new features, and all my past posts would be added to my site, though I don’t know in what form.

So please tell me what you think. As I said, I’m truly on the fence about this one, and I know that readers will be honest with their thoughts.

Time for dinner!

 

572 thoughts on “Should I join Patheos?”

  1. Yes, please join! They have a sleeker looking site and the name carries some credibility. Your readers will follow you.

    The WordPress “blog crowd” is great but limited. I think you may have hit the ceiling here and can get more eyes on your work by moving.

      1. Because many people follow Patheos already. He would have his current audience plus expose himself to Patheos readers.

        1. The part I don’t understand (from a practical point of view) is “follow Patheos”. I follow some Patheos blogs (Friendly Atheist). I don’t understand what it means to follow the whole platform.

          4. None whatsoever other than occasional reader. Did you suspect me of coming here undercover to bait poor Jerry? 🙂

          5. @Cole

            Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did suspect you of some kind of conflict of interest. Now I don’t anymore. My apologies, if you took it personally.

          6. Having never heard of Patheos for one second before this thread, I visited the site for the first time ever just now. I’ve already closed the tab.
            Comments :
            No adverts – but then I always browse with AdBlock active, and any advert that I ever see which annoys me gets banned, by the domain, permanently. That probably means that I’ve met Patheos’ ad server before and shot it in the head.
            “Faith channels” and a “Religion Library”. If I were an American and actually had to engage with the idiots of religion on a year-to-year basis, I might just possibly consider wasting my time by going there. But at that point, I shut the tab. It’s a WOMBAT – Waste Of Money Brains And Time. Specifically my money, brains and time.
            Would I go there if WEIT moved there. Probably. But probably less often.
            It seems to me that at the moment, ProfCC’s website is more or less focussed on evolution matters, with a smattering of religion and some philosophy (most of which I click straight past) and a decent amount of cattery. But if moved there, it’s likely to become more and more dominated by the religion. At which point, it’d become a WOMBAT itself.
            The ethos I get from the front page of “Patheos” is that it’s a site for people who think that religion is important enough to be given more then the absolute minimum of attention. A.k.a. a waste of effort.

          8. We aim to please. Sometimes.
            I’ll have to find the lyrics for “Wompom” now.

          9. I second GBJames’s comment. I only follow Friendly Atheist, but the platform, even since Hemant moved to it a while back, I find it conflicting. I don’t get why he is hosted within a platform that speaks in favour of the other side. I understand that we should read different opinions from our own to learn how they think, and to keep our thinking in check in case we are wrong, but just starting with their top slogan “Hosting the conversation on faith” makes little sense. If we rephrase that to read “Hosting the conversation on pretending to know things we don’t know” just makes it ridiculous. The conflict of interest is just too much, even when there is a financial incentive. I’d argue that even listing “Atheism” under a “faith channel” in Patheos’ main page is lame. Atheism is not a faith position. Let’s start from that! I also agree with Jerry: the ads are annoying. Unless the web administration is worth the change, then it’s a practical move, but I don’t see how will bring more readership. Jerry is already mentioned in big publications. It might not make much different. But that’s an unfounded opinion, I just don’t know either way.

            Why not freethoughtblogs.com instead? Too close to PZ? At least they all agree on the one question we all care about.

            In any case I would follow Jerry wherever he goes. But that does not mean that I am going to start reading the other Patheos pap. I’ve tried.

            In terms of income, I am not sure where to stand: Jerry seems to have a very good job that I guess offers a good income, hence his comment about not needing the extra income. On the hand I was a bit disappointed to see Hemant quitting his math teaching job to blog full time and then ask for donations through Patreon. Isn’t that the same thing that churches do?
            I admit that I am conflicted on this, I understand that keeping a website can be a full time job, and that the activism that Hemant, Jerry, Matt Dillahunty, and all the others is important not only in the US, but also in Canada and elsewhere but aren’t we putting our foot in our mouths if we are expected to “tithe”? Doesn’t that make them some kind of priests, since even if we are supposed to make our own minds; they already are opinion leaders? I have purchased Hemant’s and Jerry’s books, because they are good reads, but I can’t afford a monthly contribution and I can’t stop thinking that as soon as there is money in it, it becomes a conflict of interests no different than a church.

          10. Why not freethoughtblogs.com instead?

            There are a couple of problems with this:

            1. I doubt he’d be welcome there, as he is likely considered an apostate (an apostate of what I’m not exactly sure, but they have lots of apostates at “free thought” blogs)

            2. I like the fact that Jerry is free to write whatever he wants here. That would not likely continue at freethoughtblogs (see #1)

          11. >Why not freethoughtblogs.com instead?

            The ads there are obnoxious, and cause the browser to break down.

          12. I was not really familiar with Patheos, so thanks for the information, and on the basis of what you say I would certainly not be in favor of having WEIT moved there!

            (I completely disagree with you about FtB, though! 😉 )

          13. I’m late to the convo but I agree. I like this smaller platform. I think more readers would just be a lot more work and less actual constructive discussion. Jerry is so involved here and I would hate for it to lose that personal touch. I also love the commenters here and I guess the tribal part of me is saying “No new people are needed, we are just fine tyvm.” However, there is the possibility that more/new people will enrich our dialogues- but I just don’t think it’s needed lol. There are so many amazing minds right here that I have learned much from these last couple of years.

          14. Perhaps I’m just losing my short-term memory, but it seems to me that new people show up here fairly regularly as it is. Except for one or two cranks now & then, I’m always glad to see them.

          17. Asking for money to support a non-profit venture is done by many secular organizations. Public radio comes to mind.

    2. “The WordPress “blog crowd” is great but limited. I think you may have hit the ceiling here and can get more eyes on your work by moving.”

      I’m not convinced moving would get Jerry more views. If anything, I suspect Jerry’s site would be an “anchor tenant” for Patheos more than he’d get traffic from them, but Jerry could check traffic numbers with them beforehand.

      I’d say your current site is actually easier to read than the ad-filled Patheos site, certainly easier on mobile. And you are independent and can do things the way you want. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge my favorite site moving for your convenience, tech support, community and some pocket change, though. But as a reader, there is no benefit to me, none. I like your site and comments as they are. But, I also like the work you do for us readers, and if moving will make your experience better as an author, then it would make sense.

          20. @ Ant

            It certainly has degenerated.

            @ merilee

            “conic” substituted for “chronic” because a fool’s cap, or dunce cap can be shaped like a cone. (A foolscap is also a term for a type of paper.)

            “Duns” substituted for “done” because “dunce” comes from the theologian Duns Scotus.

          21. Thanks, Beef. As a Mathy I should have gotten the conical reference, and I kinda sorta got the Duns part;-) Sometimes you’re just too quick for me!

          22. PS And living in Canada I know all about foolscap paper (had never heard of it in the States.) All our HS exams had to be written on the stuff and it was a pain to haul around and mark.

          23. I hadn’t heard that word, I think, since I was in elementary school! I never thought what it meant because I never saw it written.

          25. I can’t recall. Maybe. I usually got exempt from my final exams (except for math because my mark was always lower than my other subjects).

          26. I forgot about those exemptions- over 80% or something? I think thst was the case when I was first teaching here ( Ontario). I really didn’t like the policy because kids did not have to remember the entire course that way.

        1. Agreed. I’ve got an old first-gen iPad, and ad-heavy sites tend to cause the browser to crash – Patheos and FTB have both given me trouble in the past.

          1. FTB has a serious intrusive ad problem at the moment. At one point pop ups and pop unders seemed to go on an uncontrolled rampage around my screen. That has calmed down but the ads left still seem quite intrusive.

      3. I tend to be part of the “If-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it” crowd. I love WEIT just as it is. However, if you decide to move, I’ll still read your new material several times a day, as I have been doing for a long time. You have a considerable amount of content that simply doesn’t interest me, but that doesn’t mean WEIT isn’t the greatest blog around. It is, and I feel sure it will continue to be no matter where you decide to move it. (It is a very simple matter to skip on past the “noms” and get to the real stuff that I personally love 😉 )

        You’re the best, Jerry. I’ll follow WEIT anywhere.

    3. Just been over there and I couldn’t disagree more about the sleekness of the site. This site is nice and simple, easy to navigate and easy to read. It may not have the latest trendy gizmos of Web Eleventy point five but who cares. Patheos seems quite a busy design but otherwise nothing special.

    4. Oh yes, I don’t understand what the relevance to the “WordPress Blog Crowd” being “great but limited” means. I’m not in it but I still read this web site.

  2. Technical support is the one thing you mention that would appeal to me if I was deciding. I’m skeptical that you would get more readers simply by moving there. As a reader I like the idea that the chances you’ll personally see a comment are fairly high.

    That said, I don’t know how you find the time to monitor the site. And if I were in your shoes I’d welcome some moderation help. (Although I suppose you could do that here just as well.)

    If you move to Patheos would it still be WEIT, the website? Or would it become WEIT the bl*g?

    1. I’m skeptical that you would get more readers simply by moving there.

      Considering that some 6000 people have subscribed to WEIT as-is in the last 6 months or so, and the subscriber-ship will soon flip the 16th bit … I wonder how many of Patheos’ “channels” are any where near that level?

  3. I (for one) favor the change (wider exposure, more suitable for the full range of your interests scientific and freethinking); but regardless, I’m with you and will “go” wherever you go.

          2. In addition to Jerry Coyne, I enjoy the thought-provocation of Sam Harris, Hemant Mehta, Richard Carrier, Massimo Pigliucci, Phil Plait, most all of the contributors to the Pandas Thumb and to Critical Rationalism (.net), and … no, I could go on, but surely you already have an ample list of bloggers and others whom you especially enjoy reading.

    2. I (for one) favor the change (wider exposure, more suitable for the full range of your interests scientific and freethinking); but regardless, I’m with you and will “go” wherever you go.

      I’m sorry Frank, I don’t quite follow why such a move would be “more suitable for the full range of your interests.” How is WP any less suitable in those terms? Jerry has complete control here and IMO has the most diverse and impressive collection of commenters I’ve ever seen.

      1. Jerry asked, and I expressed (in brief) my own personal opinion of the moment, Diane, for whatever value great or teensy mine may have.

        If you have a different opinion, no need to be “sorry,” for opinions vary. Widely. About everything! Neither you nor anyone else is obligated to share my opinion (and I am not obligated to defend my opinion or engage in debate on the issue). Jerry asked, I gave my opinion, you gave yours, others are giving theirs (some in brief, some at length), Jerry will weigh them for merit (or lack thereof, and mine may well be lacking) and for the preponderance of sentiment which hopefully he will find helpful, and all is well and normal and will be good however Jerry decides (it seems to me).

        1. Hmm… I don’t think Diane was challenging your opinion, just asking for clarity re your logic. You could likely have explained that apparent non sequitur in fewer words than you used to defend your right not to provide such an explanation! 😏

          /@

    3. I just typed “evolution bl*g” (minus the obfuscation) into Google.. This site came up as the second hit. There was no Patheos link on the first page. How is moving there going to widen exposure?

      Since Patheos seems to be themed on “the conversation about faith”, I think exposure is more likely to narrow.

  5. If it’s true that your readership will increase it seems to me to be a good idea. I’m not sure I’ll continue to read unless the interface is convenient (I’m a mobile phone reader). I’ll certainly continue to read your major works however. Keep up the good work.

    1. I read several Patheos “web sites” from my phone already (android, Galaxy S5) without a problem. Other than the ads, that is.

  6. I dont comment here often, but I do read every one of your posts, and I really like the current website, as I can use my WordPress reader to follow your posts easily and there are no annoying adverts (often adverts for religious orgs at that) to get in the way.

    In my experience reading some of the Patheos atheist blogs, the comments sections do get a much greater share of religious proselytisers and trolls, probably because of the site’s many faith-based channels, which could be irritating.

    But, of course, it’s totally up to you and if you did move I would no doubt follow you across.

    1. I think Jerry could block them. But I wonder if his current list of blocked people would follow him if he migrated.

  7. I like your column the way it is, but I am very old so probably too apt to be set in my ways so must be open to change. I’ll follow you wherever – but I REALLY hate ads and they are pervasive in this tech world.

    1. Ditto, except I’m not sure if 49 counts as ‘very old’.

      I just went over to the atheist channel of Patheos, and if WEIT doesn’t go there, I don’t intend on going back. I like my atheist posts diluted by other, more interesting things.

      Patheos seems like a poor fit with WEIT, since atheism is only one component of WEIT. I also like the lack of ads and the simple format of this website. The dense, cluttered Patheos site stresses me out. Ugh.

      1. Well, I am old (84) and I guess that is my reason for not wanting the website to change. I do read The Friendly Atheist on Patheos but I really appreciate the look of this site and all its quirks. Somehow I feel it would just not fit among other sites; it is so different from anything else. However, I would follow it anywhere.

      2. I would second that emotion, this is not just an atheist site, and we do read the science, even if we apparently don’t comment on it enough 🙂

        Ultimately it’s your living room, and there are advantages and disadvantages to everything.

        When I went to look on Pathos, I got an ad for a wine cooler and (among a lot of other junk) something about how the lochness monster disproves evolution. The ads were not as intrusive (at least on a laptop) as at FTB – which have pretty much made me give up going over there, but they would certainly be a distraction. I normally read on my phone about half the time and ned to see how that looks. OK – having checked – they are pretty bad on the phone.

          3. Oh dear. I haven’t fully explored the Patheos website. According to that writer one of the “flaws” in evolution is the Cosmological Argument?! Is this sort of trash usual in some parts of Patheos? Maybe it can be a good sign that they really do let you publish what want and the commenters were educated enough to quickly refute it all.

          4. Only some of the commenters there were educated. A lot of them started citing Stephen Jay Gould about how embarrassing the fossil record is for Darwin, and so on.

            b&

          5. There are some pretty bleargh “pro-life” and anti-secular/dominionist-lite posts too.

            One example: The Earth is the Lords blog, which attempts to equate an anti-abortionist stance with environmentalism.

            Or the Hispanic Evangelicals and the Lambs Agenda, which shows about as much clear thinking and balance as Bill O’Reilly, but a lot less anger.

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hispanicevangelicalsandthelambsagenda/2014/02/townhall-exclusive-where-church-and-state-collide/

    1. I thought at first Jerry was serious, then thought it was a wind up, as it looks like a website devoted to religion (yeuch!)…

      Now I think you all think he IS serious?!

      Well:
      1/ if the website that you link to refects in any way how your pages will appear, then I don’t really like that in format & the clutter on the page. It looks horrid.
      2/ it looks (correct me if I am wrong) very ‘American’. I realise that you are, & often there is natural weight on that & your concerns about the US constitiution & US education relating to evolution & secularism, & I have no problem with that, but you also have a wide international readership – would new readers (I welcome that of course) be in the US or around the world?
      3/ would posts on evolution or biology/natural history get lost?
      4/ you post a fair number of items we might term ‘fun’, like cats (I know – cats ARE serious to you!) or optical illusions etc., & Greg & Matthew also contribute… would those things survive?

      …still not sure you are serious…

          1. One thing I always liked about Patheos is that if you click on the “Blogs” tab it lists the categories alphabetically. Guess what comes first?

          3. It should be disturbing. The Patheos network treats atheism as just another faith, which is:

            a) Ridiculous.
            b) A position Jerry has spoken against.

            It kind of undermines the “Atheism is not a faith” message when it is appearing in a “Faith Channel”.

    1. That (having Rulz) shouldn’t be a problem for any present WEIT fans, and Jerry too (already) has Rulz — preeminently reasonable Rulz.

      [I can’t speak for others of course, but I (for one) don’t want to be around people who balk at preeminently reasonable Rulz; do you?]

  11. I like WEIT exactly the way it is.

    You say Patheos has assured you that you would have complete control over the content.

    Would that include the ability to ban trolls and other badly behaved internet life forms, as you do on your current web site ?

    Also, if you moved to Patheos, would you have to start referring to your web site as a bl*g ?

    1. I second this concern about “trolls and other badly behaved… life forms”.

      The risk does not seem to balance with reward.

    2. I’d read you wherever you go, but this website is clean, no ad distractions, no gimmicks to make you have to click to read “below the fold” on every article.

      I do read “Friendly Atheist” but the format is clearly designed for commercial purposes, not for reading pleasure. You have to click on every single article to read the whole article. The ads are extremely obnoxious and sometimes involve autoplay sounds and/or stupid click-bait gifs. For months, every time I opened up Friendly Atheist, a baby would make a nasty wail after a minute or two, on every single story. Their tech help is a slave to the ad income, while WordPress has some decent tech help that really wants to make your website a pleasure to read, not click-bait.

      The commenting community on Friendly Atheist does not have the same character as this community. We would have to wade through large volumes of substance-less comments to find the good ones. It’s hard to see how you could police that, since the substanceless ones would probably not generally be disobeying Da Rulz. On the other hand, there are a small number of very good commenters there who would add to the diversity of intelligent opinions in your comments.

      The Disquis commenting system is not the greatest. A few days ago I found out that I can also comment under the user name BDole, someone I don’t know, who apparently has made many of his own comments on Patheos sites.

      This place is clean and neat, and feels like a home. Hope you stay here, but of course I’ll follow you if you switch.

      1. This is pretty much my feeling. I am subscribed to some Patheos blogs, but I don’t think I’ve ever commented there because of all the trolls. I don’t like Disgus. I guess I’d just have to get over it. I can see the positive side.

        I would, of course, continue to follow your website, but I’d prefer to stay here.

      2. I agree that Disqus is not a well-designed comment system.

        It’s hard to follow subthreads in mobile view because it allows only two indentations.

        The voting feature means that replies to unpopular comments, replies that may contain something worth reading or spark an interesting debate, sink to the bottom of the thread. I’d prefer the comments simply be posted in the same order they were received.

        Relatedly, in a large thread, Disqus will only load a small number of comments at a time. You have to repeatedly “load more comments” to get to the bottom of the thread, and Disqus doesn’t load very quickly. WP comments load much, much more quickly.

        1. Jeez, everything I read here about Patheos makes me want to throw my arms around Jerry’s ankles, screaming, “DON’T GO! DON’T GO!”

          Lou, Beef, Heather, & Steve make some excellent points for maintaining the status quo!

      4. Also, the RSS feed seems to be broken, at least I was unsuccessful in my attempts to subscribe to the Friendly Atheist – the feed was serving HTML.

      1. I totally agree, one of my concerns (on PCC’s behalf) was whether Patheos allows to enforce idiosyncratic rools our whether these are centrally controlled.

  12. I’ll follow you whatever you decide, but I like the little community you’ve built for yourself. I like feeling like you read your followers comments and that you have ultimate control over who is allowed to comment.

    Go with your gut!

  13. I really like that this is a website that is not a part of a “network.” It can feel like the group sites are just a self reinforcing feedback loop.

    That being said, I would still read your work if it was placed on Pathos. Would Pathos allow you to keep your usual guest authors?

  14. While tech support and more exposure is a nice thing, I like the clean, no frills design of this site.

    Patheos is not too bad and I wouldn’t run away screaming. I read some Patheos blogs and the religeous crowd can be a bit annoying. I guess that would mean more moderation work for you.

  15. I don’t like the idea of you moving to Patheos mostly because the ads are really distracting and they slow down the reading experience as you often have to wait until all the ads are loaded so that you can read the post (especially if you have a slower internet connection).

    I also question the “more readers”. Sure, you will probably get new readers but will they be good quality readers or trolls? You get lots of new readers here now so it’s a question of quantity vs quality and from some of the comments on the Patheos site I am leaning toward the increase in reader quantity being a sacrifice to quality.

    I think in you’ve built up your own brand. I can see going to Patheos if you don’t have a brand of your own, but you do so I think staying independent is worthwhile — oh and as for technical help, you have such a vast group of readers that I’m sure many have WordPress experience and could do just as good a job in technical support as the support Patheos offers.

      1. I, too, agree with everything Diana points out, but would add that an ad blocker improves readability.

    2. That’s a good point, too, all the tech heads in the community. Managing volunteers can often add headaches that you don’t get from paid support though – if not headaches, just effort and waiting for availability. With the right folks it can definitely work.

  19. Dear Jerry,

    I have been a reader for some years and this is my first comment. Please do not, I say do not, move. It will not be the same. When Mano Singham moved from obscure but private blog at Case-Western U to Free thought Blog, I did not approve of it. I am right, it is no longer interesting though widely read.

    My wife and I are researchers at Vanderbilt. If you happen to come this way, you can expect a good South Indian dinner.

    Amarnath

    1. A similar experience was when PZ moved to his current location some years ago. Pharyngula is now a mad-house of ads ads ads. I especially dislike the one that butts in on the side, moving the post to the right. And the ads are often REALLY inappropriate. Pro-religion, or anti-feminism in the case of Pharyngula.

      1. Yep. I’ll add that there are ads and there are ads. FTB (like many sites now) seems to use the worst, most bottom of the barrel ad service – this means the intrusive ads that pop in on the left, and pop ups (or new tabs) when you click a link.

        I haven’t been to Pathos in a while, so I’m not sure what ad service they use, maybe it’s not as bad. They’re not all terrible.

        But like most, I’d prefer a site without ads.

  20. I think it’s important to hear from people who are not particularly invested in either option; so here’s my opinion:

    I don’t care either way; I’ll read your website regardless.

  21. I love WEIT. I like Hemant Mehta and his Friendly Atheist site at Patheos. But a distraction for me at his site is the advertising.

    I hate the way the Internet is degenerating into clickbait. WEIT’s pure honest website environment is a gem that I’d be sorry to lose.

  22. Obviously, it’s your decision, but as an independent, solitary sort myself, I like the individual nature of your current blog. A quick visit to their site showed me not only a lot of ads, but also too many “voices”. You put a lot of work into your posts, and I’d hate to see your efforts just be part of some “channel”.

  23. By the sound of it, it gives you loads you dont need whilst giving you stuff you dont want!

    My 2 cents says ‘if it aint broke, dont fix it ‘

    1. Exactly what I was going to post. I like the simplicity and ease of use of this site. Sometimes sites get complicated because people need to justify their jobs and constantly come up with ‘fixes’. (And I say this as a retired IT techie myself.)

  24. Ever since watching the mess which Free Thought Blogs became, and it being tainted by one particular blogger, I think you are better going alone.

      1. “If you mean the co-founder, I’m not sure “taint” is the right word.”

        No, but it is anatomically close enough.

  25. I’m not in favor of a change. I read Friendly Atheist and I’m annoyed by the ads that pop out at you.
    I’m a little worried about the type of new commenters you might get. Some on Hemant’s site are frivolous. But, perhaps those readers would not be attracted to WEIT.

  26. I would say no, if you don’t need the money then there is no reason to loose your autonomy.
    You’d also be associating with the other channels on the patheos network not just the atheist channel.
    No control over adds means you can have the odd auto player. Also some very odd juxtaposition based on the content of your posts.

  27. I read via RSS and then save the articles I want to read into Instapaper, so I really don’t care that much about site design concerns. I prefer this site to the much busier looking Patheos, but I wouldn’t see either much.

    My big concern is will you have your own RSS feed on Patheos? I see an Atheist Channel feed over there, but I want to read YOUR stuff specifically. Much of what I see in the Atheist Channel would just be clutter to be skipped past for me.

    I also have a bit of a bad reaction to the idea of reading WEIT on a site where the “Resources” pulldown menu includes “Astrology”. and the site slogan is “Hosting the conversation on Faith”. It seems like it would position WEIT into a position of competing equally against other belief systems for which there is no evidence.

  28. I hate advertisements.

    They wouldn’t drive me away from WEIT, but, were I the one making the decision, that would be a non-starter for me.

    The email interface that WordPress provides is the only way I can manage the flood of comments. If Patheos doesn’t offer a similar function, that would drive me away.

    Also…there’s an hell of a lot to be said for independence. Once you go to an ad-supported site, there’ll be multiple pressures…first, on increasing traffic for the sake of increasing traffic, and then from the ones who write the checks to write what they want you to. There might not be much pressure, and it might take a long time to build, and the owners might insist that there never would be any such pressure…but it’s as inevitable as water flowing downhill.

    It might be worth considering occasionally writing a paid piece for them, as you’ve done for Salon. That sort of thing can work well for all involved.

    But upping and moving…I’d recommend against it.

    b&

    1. I agree with Ben, particularly regarding his comment about managing the ‘flood of comments’. I have not found a similar, user-friendly function at Patheos, although it might exist.

  29. One significant downside to Patheos, for me at least: some ads are written such that if you’re reading a post on an iPhone, which I always am, they automatically redirect to open the App Store app, just by scrolling down, not clicking (tapping) on anything. This makes it literally impossible sometimes to read an entire post. It doesn’t always happen, and I don’t know the pattern or if there’s any way to avoid it. I wrote to the Patheos contact address and reported it; have not received a reply. Obviously their model includes ads, but I would think they would not have to accept any that include this redirect code. I don’t know if this issue is specific to Patheos, but I’ve only seen it happen there. They may have even addressed it, since I haven’t seen it happen recently.

    Bottom line, this is one of my fave web sites, and I will certainly follow wherever you go, but there’s a chance that this move could make it impossible for me to read the posts. My input, for what it’s worth.

    1. This happens on other sites as well, but “hijack” ads on Patheos are far more common. I read FriendlyAtheist, but have basically given up on reading it from my phone because of the lack of adblock to prevent the ads that redirect you automatically (losing the article you were on).
      To prevent the auto-appStore ads, I’ve turned on ‘restrictions’ on my iPhone to say that installing from the App Store is not allowed. This prevents these types of ads, but it means I have to occasionally turn it off to run updates, or when I actually want to install something. Why Apple can’t give an option to “Never Open App Store From Safari” I’ll never know.

    2. Advertisements are a notorious vector for malware, in no small part because advertisers feel compelled to use similar techniques to make it past those who block them. That then makes it easy for the even more unscrupulous to craft ads that piggy-back on all the hard work the advertisers have already done to hijack people’s browsers.

      I’ve got adblock installed, and even still Patheos keeps popping up incredibly annoying windows begging me to let them annoy me in perpetuity. It’s pretty clear they care most about capturing eyeballs and not as much about the content they’re serving.

      Remember: if money is changing hands and you’re not paying nor being paid, you’re what’s being sold.

      b&

      1. Brilliant quote!

        “Remember: if money is changing hands and you’re not paying nor being paid, you’re what’s being sold.”

      2. Really? What version of AdBlock are you running? I have it too on Chrome and it blocked 28 ads over the course of going to patheos.com and then navigating to The Friendly Atheist blog. I didn’t see anything sneak through. I’m running AdBlock 2.14.4.

        1. It’s also 2.14.4, but on Safari.

          The ads that made it through were “Like this shit? Click here to be buried to your neck in it!” ones from Patheos itself.

          Typing that name once again strikes me…I can’t help but read that as an elision of “Pater” and “theos” — God the Father. And they’re likely also playing off “pathos,” as well It would be utterly mind-boggling to me to tell people to find Jerry at blogsite network whose name is basically a latinized version of the joke Catholic church name, “Our Father of Perpetual Suffering.”

          b&

          1. Apparently the name is a portmanteau word from ‘path’ + ‘theos’, thus ‘g*d-path’ or ‘path of g*d’ or some such foolishness.

            It was founded by an evangelical Christian & her Catholic spouse (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1895735,00.html). They aimed to create the “WebMD of religion and spirituality” — hence the slogan: “Balanced views of religion & spirituality” (http://archive.sltrib.com/printfriendly.php?id=10708099&itype=storyID).

          2. I think the only “balanced” view of religion and spirituality would be the anthropological one. What sort of “balance” would be called for with respect to haruspex, divination, or the Evil Eye?

            If a believer could demonstrate the superiority of a particular modern religious tenet to sacrificing a chicken, belief wouldn’t be necessary. So “balance” therefore would equate all shamans, regardless of tribe…and I think we’re pretty much agreed about the silliness of reading tea leaves…but I’m sure that’s not the type of “balance” they’re looking for at Patheos….

            b&

          7. I thoughts like that. I like Hemant Mehta but am put of by the tone of the site.
            It feels to me like a religious site pandering to alternatives.

            And, a bit like Nye v Ham, Jerry being there may give some credence, or undeserved balance to some that do not warrant it.
            Patheos, sounds religious to me.

    3. Wow, do advertisers really do that to you? Why on earth do people like Patheos think this sort of thing is acceptable?

      If I read them on an iPhone (which I don’t, I use a laptop) I’d immediately boycott them out of anger.

    4. I use a newsreader (Feedly) for non-WP sites, which avoids a lot of the ad annoyances. Some blogs only put a teaser or above-the-fold content in their RSS feed, which is a pain; Hemant Mehta’s blog feeds the whole post.

      1. I use Feedly for ALL sites. WEIT is the only one that I select to send me an email for each post (in addition to the Feedly RSS)

        1. Actually, I use Feedly for everything I read as well. The WordPress app just happens to make commenting handy dandy as I’m logged in for other stuff already.

        2. ditto here. I follow dozens & dozens of sites via feedly (just skimming the headlines for most, obviously), but *actually navigate to* only three of them. WEIT is one of those three. (I come for the comments).

          1. [In hindsight, my comment seems to imply that I valued the comments more than Prof. CC’s posts. This is inaccurate].

            For clarity: I read & enjoy WEIT posts, too (& thus do come here for the posts), but can read them within feedly. Reading comments requires navigating here.

      2. Feedly is great. An RSS reader is a great time saver, and a great time waster, if you want it to be. Regardless, WEIT is my daily go to site. Jerry does an impressive job of keeping the site refreshed with new, insightful posts; doing his day job; writing the albatross; and having a globe trotting life. 😮

        I also subscribe to Planet Atheism as RSS – which is a little redundant since Planet Atheism is an RSS aggregator, but they manage a list of atheism related sites so I don’t have to. I may eventually just subscribe directly, but I get more variety by not doing so, given that I wouldn’t actually bother to subscribe to some of the feeds, such as PZ’s blog. Curiously, WEIT isn’t in the Planet Atheism feed.

        I do like that WEIT gives full RSS feeds, but I also totally understand why ad driven sites like Patheos don’t – they get paid for web traffic, not for people subscribing to RSS, so they need the click throughs (though it is also possible to put ads in line in RSS feeds).

        1. Feedly is how I found this site but now I just come here directly & don’t bother with many other sites.

  30. After visiting Pathos and reading the blog post “Atheism in the U.S. is not about civil rights” with the comment “…but if there are any civil rights issues plaguing atheists in the U.S., they’re so small compared to any other historical civil rights struggle that invoking that language itself is extremely offensive and disproportionate.” My opinion is that moving to Pathos would be beneficial for that site, not so much for you.

      1. I found the main page a bit annoying and confusing. I went to pathos.com and selected one of the editors’ picks and wasn’t impressed. If Prof. CC moved I would have to find a way to avoid the rest of the site and the ads.
        It’s one reason I only read The Friendly Atheist if there is a link to a specific post.

    3. I agree – it would be interesting for Patheos first, they could be certains advantages for Jerry, but also inconveniences (it is like leaving an independant house for a condominium). And, selfishly, for us the readers, I would miss the simple and clear layout of this site, and its independant immune defense system.

    4. Wow, that is mind-boggling. Sure, being banned from holding office in several states and being the most distrusted demographic in the country really pales in comparison to anything else that’s going on.

      Of course, they’re probably speaking in a historical context, but I don’t think being an open atheist in the south during the Jim Crow era would have been a particularly safe bet. Nor is it a particularly safe bet now in many rural locations.

    5. My main concern would be precisely that it would attract more eyes which, regression to the mean and all, would be mostly lower quality eyes with lower quality, but not necessarily rule breaking, comments. So then you’d have to decide if you’re going to moderate comments based on quality and not just Da Roolz or if you’re going to let the comments section devolve into… well, every other comment section anywhere on the web.

      At the least, I think I’d spend some time reading the comments on other sites hosted there to get an idea what you’ll be attracting.

  31. If technical support is currently causing you problems, I can see the value in moving to a network.

    From a personal perspective, I hope you decide to remain a standalone site. Blog networks always seem to involve drama of some kind at some point (it seems to be the raison d’être for some). I prefer the atmosphere here.

    Frankly, moving to Patheos would be better for their resume than yours, particularly with the Albatross coming out. I don’t think you’ll be lacking for new commenters.

  32. I just went to the Patheos web site and was barraged with ads for diabetes. It kept popping up. Annoying. You may get lost in the plethora of other blogs. I am a new subscriber and I like what I see and read.

  33. I would decline the invitation. Joining Patheos seems like an anithetical direction for WEIT, the website. Perhaps a wonderful invitation to be sure, but can anyone imagine THE nieghborhood Tom cat joining… a D*G pack?

    1. spelling error alert! SORRY 🙁

      Antithetical
      adjective 1. directly opposed or contrasted; mutually incompatible.

  34. If I were you, Jerry, I would NOT move to Patheos.

    You created yourself a well respected brand name with ‘WEIT’.
    Moving it to Patheos, I think, will make it susceptible to being lost in the noise: your voice will be one amongst many others (mostly dissenting ones).
    I think you will actually LOSE visibility.
    You will no longer be Professor Ceiling Cat! You will just be an opinion amongst many others.

    The format … I just went over to Patheos .. and I didn’t like the look of it AT ALL .. WAY too cluttered: too much info-noise on a single page.
    Besides, the channel only has ‘Blogs’ and ‘Columns’, not ‘Websites’.
    And then the big thing: who doesn’t hate ads? I was already not liking it, when suddenly a pop-up windows, asking me to subscribe to something or another, was plastered over the text I was reading.
    That’s when I IMMEDIATELY left the page.

    I would hate to see you give up your nice, uncluttered, informative website that is clearly ‘so you’, and become ‘just another blog’.

    Please don’t go! WEIT is unique. I think you should keep it that way.

    (If there was ONE thing I would like to see added to WEIT, it’s the possibility for commenters to edit (and thus correct) their comments).

    1. Spot on comment. If money is not an issue I suspect the other benefits can be gained without going to Patheos. Why lose the high quality brand you already have – and I am pretty sure that merging it into Patheos would eventually do that.
      There is a strong sense of community around this website – big but not too big and not so small as to be the same limited group-which I think would soon get lost

    2. Agreed, with respect to predicting a net loss of readership by moving there, as opposed to the overall gain predicted. Also cringing to see “WEIT” under the umbrella of a host with haloes and other such claptrap embedded directly in their logo. And, while I’m at it, I might as well also unburden myself and mention that the ads and, especially, extreme clutter over there are off-putting to me as well. That said, if there are other benefits to the prospective move that aren’t currently being considered, I’d be open to hearing them and re-evaluating at that time.

  35. Patheos has gotten worse and worser as the clock ticks. More and more and more ads and other junk on screen. They also like to click-bait, and like to chunk up long posts. Sidebar ads pop out all the time now, and even though I keep trying to defeat ads, the ad people are always ahead of the pack. Please, no.

  36. Agree with Diana, Ben etc above – advertising is deeply irritating, and the lack of it at BBC and WEIT are certainly one part of why they are usually the first two sites I visit.

    In particular I agree with Paul S immediately above. It looks rather like a case of “That would look very good on their CV, not so good on yours”.

  37. I’d rather you stayed here. I like the look of the site better than the ones I’ve seen on Pathos, and I hate the ads. Ads with movement in them distract me and annoy me. However, if you do move, I’ll still read your bl — sorry, website.

  38. One thing to consider: When you are part of a group, you are associated with what they say. I think PZ Myers ran afoul of this a few times at ScienceBlogs. Atheism, as we have seen, doesn’t imply a broad consensus on social and political topics.

  39. I admire WEIT as an independent, unaffiliated stand-alone. Moving is your choice, obviously, but I would urge you not to join Patheos. In my opinion your move would benefit Patheos far more than it would benefit you.

  40. I read Friendly Atheist and a few other Patheos blogs, and, like the others, I don’t like the ads and the trolls. But worse, I feel HM now writes for page views–profits. There’s too much of the “stupid christian tricks” and less Friendly Atheist insights. Here, at this website, I really feel that you are writing what you truly *want* to write, but once profits enter into the picture, the urge will be to write more clickbait.

    I know you hate being lectured about your own motives, but you asked!

    1. “But worse, I feel HM now writes for page views–profits. There’s too much of the “stupid christian tricks” and less Friendly Atheist insights.”

      Yes, and too many videos of Hemant’s talking head. Talking head videos typically don’t add any value over the written word, and you can’t scan through them quickly the way you can text. And the videos come with a “please support what I” plea for cash donations – how can Patheos pay Jerry if they are always begging for money????

  41. My instinct is that you should NOT move to Patheos. The ads are a big part of this but you’ve got your own individualistic site here which I fear would get subsumed by the Patheos brand.

  42. Positives to moving to Patheos:

    Your RSS feed would get better. I notice strange behavior with your existing one. Often re-listing articles numerous times. I haven’t looked into it, but I’m guessing that edits are generating new GUIDs.

    Possible more traffic, as articles of yours will appear alongside others on the main channel.

    They pay. You might not *need* it, and it won’t support you, but might buy you a new pair of boots.

    If you are logged in to Disqus – you do get a digest, and get alerts to replies, etc. So, no need for the endless “sub” posts.

    Downsides to moving to Patheos:

    Their ads are terrible and intrusive (often hijacking the browser, at least on mobile)

    You’ll get more religious trolls as they’ll see your article in the comments feed and jump in to defend their faith.

    Their comment system is Disqus – which is used at a LOT of sites. If you want to keep a separate identity on WEiT than you have on other bl*gs like Friendly Atheist – it makes it far more difficult as if you’re logged in on one, you’re logged in for all (unless you use a different browser, etc.).

    That d*g-dammed “Like what you’re reading. Consider subscribing to our newsletters …” pop up every time! (No, I don’t want to subscribe, leave me alone. Thank you very much.)

    1. “No, I don’t want to subscribe, leave me alone. Thank you very much.”

      Subscribe with a fake email (e.g. no.thanks@go.away, or a ruder version of the same) and it’ll set a cookie which means it won’t come up again.

        1. It also depends on how insistent the spammer is on validating your email address. I’m sure many have checks to eliminate all “example” domains, along with any other obvious fake ones.

          For me, the only winning move is to not play. If somebody wants to spam me, I don’t want anything to do with them.

          b&

      2. Yes. My situation is that I have my browser dump cookies at close. So, until I create an exception for that cookie to remain persistent, I see it over and over.
        I typically do like Ant suggested of using example.com for domains on any form I don’t want followup, as I know I won’t be accidentally subscribing some poor sap like I would potentially be doing if I just “made up” a domain.

  43. I really like the site as it is. I think it is highly desirable to be independent of a “family” and I do not like the idea of advertisements. Of course the content is the most important and I will follow the website wherever it is.

  44. Jerry,
    I see the commerciality of Patheos as a necessary evil for bloggers who need to make money out of it as a major part of their income. For bloggers in that position, such as Hemant Mehta, it is understandable.

    For people who don’t need that income, other websites are much nicer and friendlier to read (Patheos is ugly to look at).

    In short, WEIT is a website, whereas Patheos is a collection of bloggers.

  45. Stay independent. I love your blog and refer others to it.
    And – have a wonderful trip. I enjoy photos of your “noms” and comments on your stays.

  46. The only thing that would change for me is the link in my favorites bar… if you can make a buck out of it, reach more readers and have less of a hassle with the technicalities, go for it. I know the Friendly Atheist blog on Patheos, can’t say the ads bother me. Plus, you can always just come back here if you don’t like it, right?

  48. I find their site to be a mess, but they will pay you and you will be part of a larger bl*gging community if that’s what you’re looking for. I will not visit that site because it’s unreadable and frustrating by design.

    1. I guess to clarify part of what I find frustrating about Patheos and other sites that use similar design is that I hate reading sites where the column I’m currently reading takes up between 1/4 and 1/3 of the screen real estate, while the rest is filled with adverts and plugs for other columns and then they push pop-ups all over the 1/4-1/3 of the screen I’m trying to read on every single page. It’s also fails to load frequently and requires me to allow all java script on the page before I can read comments or reply.

  51. Personally, I don’t like the Patheos site and avoid it. Nothing against it especially — if people have figured out a way of making money simultaneously out of atheists and Mormons etc, good luck to them. It just doesn’t appeal to my private taste. I wouldn’t visit it.

    I would be sad to see this site change, and I expect that it inevitably would. This is the only site where I read almost every word, and regularly read through a great deal of the comments.

    I also like the format of this site.

  53. This is the first comment I have posted, although I read your site daily and have for years. Unless it offers you clear advantages that you really need, I hope you won’t change your site. Of all of the sites I visit, yours and Sean Carroll’s are by far my favorites. I’m not sure it could be any better. Thanks for all the work you put into it and enjoy India.
    ps – I would, of course, continue to visit even if you do move.

  54. Hm, it’s a tough one. I had never looked at Patheos before; my first reaction to the site was ‘eh’. Certainly it’s slick and has volume on its side. But it seems both too topical and too diverse. It is a site devoted to discussions of faith, and atheism is one of eleven faith channels. About half of the articles highlighted on the atheist page looked like HuffPo-style stuff I wouldn’t read. Which may be why they are asking you to join. Being part of a larger, widely-read site is great, but I’m not sure if I’d say that Patheos is the right one.

    1. Yes, that’s a good point. WEIT would look good on the Patheos resume, but Patheos not so good on Jerry’s!

  55. Stay where you are Jerry. Your readership is building. Your ‘lone wolf ‘ status is very appealing. I’d be disinclined to find your fine work amongst the clutter.

  56. I prefer your current website that is ad-free and independent. My sense is that WEIT already enjoys strong readership; would the change really bring in that many more? I think the user experience would diminish greatly with ads and the change to a “noisier” site.

  57. I had never heard of Patheos. Looks like a religious or accomodationist clickbait generator. Posting an article on there once in awhile might reach new people, but your current site is more scholarly and readable.

    Ads are more than just annoying. They can also build up clutter and potential malware on your computer.

    I abandoned my free WordPress and Flickr sites when I grew tired of having my content used without compensation to promote someone else’s agenda and to sell ads over which I had no control. My own website pre-dates social media and probably needs to be made more usable on small devices, but at least I have full control over it and can update it when/how I want to.

    2. “Looks like a religious or accomodationist clickbait generator” – that is why I seriously thought Jerry was kidding! It just looks like it is all about religion, even if it is not, that is what seems to underlye the site… ‘beliefs’. This site however is not just opinion, it is also about evidence.

  60. I’ll add my voice to the please don’ts. The layout is so badly cluttered, the advertising so intrusive, and the comments so full of shallow point scoring and drama that I can’t be bothered with it, even though Pathos has a few excellent bloggers.

  61. No!!! Don’t, please. Your great characteristic is you are totally independent. Do you want more readers? You get them when some other site publishes your articles, like The New Republic.

  62. I comment on the Patheos atheist network, and my immediate reaction to the idea is, you will have to deal with people who have no inclination to follow your Roolz.

    I’m a silent but daily reader here, and find your website a tranquil haven in many respects.

    This is a civilized website. Not so much over there… To maintain the maturity and focus, I can see the necessity of you continually applying, or threatening, the banhammer.

  63. I would discourage the move. You would be diminishing your status as a scientist who just happens to be an atheist. We appreciate you status as a person who is a protector of scientific inquiry and empiricism.

  64. … and so here’s another thing I love about your website (and why it’s by far my most frequented (clicked) one): You ask for reader feedback!

    Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

    I like your site just the way it is. I like the way the comments work. I would prefer those not to change.

    HOWEVER: Since this is your readership and income we are talking about, I will be fine with it either way and if you move, I’ll just change my bookmarks figure out the comments and carry on.

    (Now, I may have an issue with a new page getting blocked at my work. not sure about that. I haven’t had patheos sites be blocked before; but I haven’t clicked on them much either …)

  65. I would follow you anywhere but I really like this site the way it is. Patheos is interesting but I would not like having to navigate through other stuff just to get to your content. WEIT is the first thing I check almost every morning.

  66. At the risk of sounding self-serving, you have a very select readership here, Mr. Coyne. Comments are most often thoughtful, engaging, and well written, which always adds to the experience of visiting your websites and reading your posts. I think, more often than not, it doesn’t matter what you post, someone is guaranteed to comment something wise and conducive to dialogue. I doubt that the same is the case with Patheos.

    I visit your website everyday, sometimes more than once, and as others have said before, the community we’ve built here is very valuable to me, as I sure it is to you.So I say, if you don’t really need the dough, keep what you’ve created over the years.

    1. Yes, there is some selection process going on here that works counter to Sturgeon’s Law: Waaaaay more than 10% of the comments on Jerry’s website are worth reading.

      In fact, I think it turns Sturgeon’s Law on it’s head: More than 90% of the content and comments on WEIT are worth reading and seriously thinking about.

      Come to really think about it: This is the reason this website is my favorite website (full stop): There is something about this place (in addition to DA ROOLZ, which are vital) that attracts my tribe to read and comment here.

      More ≠ better in this case, in my opinion.

      You might get more click and more comments; but my guess is that the huge majority of these will not be worth reading or thinking about. (I’m thinking (Sturgeon’s Law)2. My own personal corollary to Sturgeon’s Law is Sturgeon’s Law of the Internets, which is: 99% of everything on the internet is crap — (Sturgeon’s Law)2)

  67. If I were to decide, I’d say no. Too much adds, a terrible layout and you’ll be just one of many. I actually don’t think it will give you a lot to move over there. Independence is always better.

  68. My reasons are entirely selfish but I hope you stay here. I really dislike the annoying, space-hogging ads — especially the ones that move around. That format will mean, for example, that the nice pictures like the readers wildlife photos will be squeezed into a smaller area of the screen.
    I will look up top to see how one might block the ads (for free? Probably not) in case you do make the move.

    I do see that the readers comments there can be ‘nested’ like they are here. I do like this arrangement since one can follow the thread of a conversation that way.

  69. “I like being a lone, adless wolf”. Please keep it that way! I beseech thee, O Prof Ceiling Cat.

  70. You’re doing just fine where you are. Don’t do it. The fact that there is one downside should dissuade you not to mention two or three. Seems like they want you more than you want them anyway. Besides the folk who want to find out WEIT have already found this site. New readers might not be that desirable.

  71. *Your* site allows for large, even oversize photos- of shuttle lift offs, Chicago sunsets and nature photos. *Their* site seems to only allow for a half size portrait photo. (“Spot the nightjar” in a small portrait format size photo?)

    New readers will be brought in by the superb quality of your photographs. (“Spot the nightjar” in a 3×3″ photo?)

    If they can’t accommodate *your signature look,* give it a pass!

  72. Would be interesting to follow your postings, especially since they do not have a theism as a religion prerequisite.

  73. My problem is that WEIT would go from a science (plus the rest) website to a religious website.

    An explicitly anti-science one at that, besides having religious “channels”. It has an “astrology channel” “powered by tarot.com” for FSMs sake!

    I am sure Patheos is a good resource on religious basics and intercourse. But it makes me think of Templeton (from the latter) and old religions (from astrology) at the same time.

    Would I follow? Difficult question, since while astrology isn’t click-supported they are site-supported. My gut reaction: no.

    1. I agree that if Dr. Coyne still wishes to consider his non-blog as science first and culture/atheism second, a switch to Pantheos may not be a good idea. I’m a little uncertain from the post, though, whether the new website would completely replace this current one.

      There is probably no BAD decision here, only an optimal one.

    2. I had the same gut reaction. The science and other content that is posted here would not fit into the Patheos “faith first” environment. The whole idea of “Atheism” being a “Faith Channel” which I assume is where WEIT would end up, doesn’t fit with a “science first” atheism.
      Regardless, I would still follow.

  75. As a daily reader of your website and an infrequent commenter, I hope you do not move to Patheos. The Patheos implementation is a CPU hog that typically uses 100% of my CPU time while I am reading one of their postings. I imagine this is due to all the ad and tracking activity their sites use. However, you must decide and I will still check your site each day regardless of your final decision.

    1. I have the same problem with the Puff-Ho website (Huffington Post). I have trained myself to press the “X” button on my browser to halt content loading as soon as the text I want to read appears.

        1. I suspect the opposite of the refresh button most likely situated next to the URL. In Chrome it is an “x”. Not sure of the other browsers.

  76. I hang out at Slacktivist on Patheos, and one issue with the network is Disqus, the discussion engine. It can be temperamental and wonky at times, and always takes time to load (since it is hosted separately from the website proper). It’s fussy and cluttered (with all the “upvoting” silliness), and I find it much less usable than the straightforward comments functionality of WEIT. If the commenting community is a major concern, I think the commenting engine is important, and I don’t think Disqus has any real advantages over the one here.

    I also think that a move to Patheos would naturally push this website away from the pure science articles, and push your prospective audience for those kind of articles away. I know they say they will give you carte blanche, but as far as I know Patheos doesn’t have any other science writers — the focus of the network is on religion, and I think that, at the very least, those looking for science article would be less inclined to go to Patheos, and you might find yourself engaging more and more with the atheism side of this website.

    All in all, I don’t think it is a good fit.

  77. Regarding technical support, I think there is a good chance that there is one or more regular readers here that are capable and would offer their help.

    Regarding moderation, the same as above, only more so. The issue for you would be deciding who to choose from among the volunteers.

    Regarding viewers, I am a bit skeptical about there being a positive increase. I imagine there would be at least a temporary large surge in growth, yes, but I bet that it would settle down to about the same as you have now. At least if you are counting only the viewers that you would like to have. It is a given that the need for moderation will go way, way up.

    Regarding the number of viewers, how hard is it for people to click a link and open a new window to WEIT? WEIT is pretty well known and seems to get quite a bit of exposure through other websites.

    Regarding advertising, Ben and several others have said it already.

    I have seen successful websites with a solid core of regular viewers upgrade to larger more commercial sites many times over the past 12 years or so. Off hand I can’t think of a single time that the move turned out to be an obviously good thing for the website, though I don’t of course know anything about how much money the proprietor made, so in that respect it may have worked well for at least awhile. But, I can think of several off hand that, at least from my perspective, began a steady downward trajectory after such a move.

    From what I’ve seen regarding moves like this it is extremely likely that in the medium term there will be a big change in readership. WEIT will lose a significant number of its current readers. It will gain others.

    I’ll follow it if you move, at least until I don’t care for it anymore. I am not worried about your content changing, but the other major factor for me is the regular commentors. If that changes for the worst, that would really suck.

    1. “the other major factor for me is the regular commentors. If that changes for the worst, that would really suck.”

      Agreed, 100%. This is my tribe and I like it. Please keep the tribe together!

  81. I like being invited into your living room. It’s a friendly living room where we can enjoy polite conversations and heated discussions among friends. Please don’t even move the furniture!

  82. I don’t like the Patheos idea. I am not down with the “conversation about faith” shtick – although I have to say, my only contact with the site I think has been Hemant Mehta’s blog and I’m not sure I ever saw the HuffPo-style home page until today. At least Atheism gets its own “channel” – more than you can say for HuffPo – but it is just thrown in there among the “other” faiths, and I don’t care for that.

    Also the behavior of the Patheos site on iPad is kind of weird, which is common on sites that have lots of ads and other embeds. It’s a turnoff going to click on a link, and then having the page suddenly shift and instead of an astronomy post I’m reading about Kardashians.

    If you feel the need for more robust technical support than you are currently getting, and moar features, there are WP hosts which provide excellent support and set up for surprisingly low cost given allowed traffic.

  83. I prefer your Living Room! and your Guests Posts! I vote stay but will still visit you at Pathoes

  85. I would follow you anywhere but I don’t like when my familiar haunts suddenly look too different. I am comfy with status quo.

    Besides, I don’t see that handy button in the corner where I can check if anyone replied to me. I do see lots and lots of extraneous material, though.

  86. Please don’t move to Patheos!

    Adam Lee, author of Daylight Atheism, used to have his own website, where he posted long essays and regular blog posts, and had a following of thoughtful, articulate commenters who added a lot to every conversation. Like WEIT. Then he moved to Patheos, and it all went out the window. He writes as beautifully as ever, but the commenting community took a steep dive.

    At Patheos, the comments are sorted by “best” by default. Well, I don’t care what other people think of a given comment — especially the kind of readers Patheos caters to, but in order to read them in chronological order, I have to go through an extra step. I think that the whole idea of up-voting and down-voting comments is a poor fit for WEIT anyway.

    And that “Like what you’re reading?” come-on that pops up on every godamn page is beyond annoying! [Solution: stop loading the page as soon as you see the headline. Of course you won’t load any comments either, but almost all the comments are vapid or incoherent anyway, so who cares?]

    So please stay away from Patheos!

    1. Good comment i dont think we read comments just to see the best… often its the worst that gets the gears moving. if i only read what i agreed with or likeed certainly i would be less thoughtful

  87. Is it one or the other? why not both? If it is a binary choice, stay “a lone, adless wolf”
    Following are 4 good reasons not to change sites.

    … When Faith Versus Fact comes out, I bet your readership here will certainly expand due to your hard work and arguments, as opposed to some faith based belief from Patheos.

    … Is Patheos looking to ride your coat tails after the publication of Faith Versus Fact? Since bringing in all your readers will increase the total add money’s for the powers that be at Patheos. (my nod to back room conspiracy theory)

    … Maybe “Faith Versus Fact” should be Patheos subtitle with every one of their multiple religious and woo channels on one side and the lone wolf atheist channel on the other.

    … Finally, I concur with many others here that Professor Ceiling Cat’s CV will add more to their wall than the name Patheos will add to our distinguished Professor’s wall.

  88. Something is usually lost in these parallel moves. WEIT as an “atheist channel” already seems mistaken.

    I’ve owned a couple of businesses and did things my way despite monetary incentives to become part of the herd. I have no regrets. My service was 100% me and my patrons appreciated that.

    Just my .02

    Mike

  89. I don’t understand the complaints about ads, there is nothing easier to avoid. I never see ads on FTB, for instance. I don’t know about phones, since I can barely see numbers, let alone try and read an article on a phone.

    That being said, I like it the way it is, and would vote to remain here.

  90. No, Jerry, please don’t move. The ads are extremely intrusive, and you’d just be making money for someone else.
    I rarely visit Pharyngula any more since it moved to freethought blogs as I find the pop-ups and the clumsy design horrible (that and the fact that PZ is perpetually angry about everything, but that’s another matter)
    If it ain’t broke……..

  91. Please don’t move. I found Patheos too slow and cumbersome to read on an Ipad. I went there for the first time and had a struggle fighting with the ads to make the print bigger and to move them off to the side. Of the several blogs I clicked on, I didn’t see anything that came close to the depth and variety and daily surprises worthy of I find on your present site.

    I chuckled reading the comment about how it would look “too American” after getting blasted with the ad about “which-fat-celebrity-high-school-yearbook photo do you recognize?” (makes me wonder what cookies they found in my Ipad to suggest that link). I often want to confound the sophisticated logarithms that “suggested” diabetes products for one of your other readers, by making random, bizarre searches on Ebay just to see what Facebook post comes next.

    You are classical music. You belong uninterrupted on a public channel and not on “K105-your-trendy-Abercombe-Fitched-station.”

  92. I find this site so much more than an ongoing discussion of religion. Beyond the already well described ad issues, my lurking on patheos was short lived because of all the WLC clones. Between you, Ben and Sastra they seem to be few and far between here.

  93. Another vote in the “no” category.

    I like the simple functionality of wordpress. I have read a few pathos blogs once or twice, but the whole format just seems ugly and commercial.

    Also, more readers would mean more noise in the comments and IMO the comments here are the most pleasant comments on any blog, I would for that to change.

    Finally, I hear you need to become a d-g owner to get a blog over there. No cats aloud.

    Probably.

  94. Someone mentioned your “brand”. Great point. You have a great brand established. You don’t need it lumped into some category at Patheos.

    If you want more readers, I think there are other methods you can use to drive traffic to this site.

          2. Holland is just a couple of hours away so it could go either way.

            I promise I’ll use organic ingredients and make an all state approved batch as well. 🙂

    2. Someone mentioned your “brand”. Great point. You have a great brand established. You don’t need it lumped into some category at Patheos.

      As ProfCC said, several times (most recently concerning the “Ham-on-Nye” sandwich debate), ProfCC may well look better on Patheos’ CV than Patheos looks on ProfCC’s CV.
      en_gb “CV” ~= en_US “resume”?

  96. A concern with the ads is that if one is using a phone or tablet, the kinetic, moving ads might slow things down. I do not know if that is true (I use a computer), but it would not surprise me.

    1. They sure slow me down on a computer!

      I used to think it was unethical to block ads. Ads are the reason content is free to the rest of us. Plus I’d grown quite adept at ignoring them–at least in print media. But internet ads are torture! They interfere with, interrupt, and destroy the reading experience, and then there’s the malware risk! The only reason I don’t yet have ad blocking software is because I understand it takes a lot of computer memory, something I don’t have at the moment…

      I often just abandon an attempt to read something I’d otherwise like to if the ads are ruining the experience. Reading should be a pleasure, not a threat to one’s blood pressure.

  97. Oh, dang! It’s been nice to be able to go to at least one high-level atheist blog without having to wait forever for it to come up or getting the dreaded, “Disqus seems to be taking its usual sweet time. Reload?”

  98. Signal-to-noise ratio and user experience are so much nicer here. Comment quality on WEIT is high, lacking the buckets of derp found elsewhere.

    Their site is a dog’s breakfast.

    Len Dawson should not go play in the peewees.
    Please don’t go.

  100. I vote you keep this web site. Patheos is too big, a huge mix of stuff. I don’t “follow” it for that reason. There are many sites out there that are crammed with stuff, and it is tedious to wade through it all looking for the gems. This site has long been a favorite because I click the link and it goes right to the content, without all the usual internet noise. It is a nice little haven I would miss if you move.

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