Here’s a segment from this week’s “Real Time” show in which Bill Maher addresses the epidemic of obesity among Americans. While he, like me, is against “fat shaming”—telling obese people that they need to lose weight (that’s their doctors’ job), we both object to the recent movement to de-stigmatize obesity by pretending that it’s not harmful. Of course it is: it’s associated, as Maher says, with nearly every health issue you can imagine. Yet with the rise of the “body acceptance movement,” we constantly see claims that you can be “healthy at every size“.
But that’s not true. On average, you’re less healthy if you’re obese. In a 2010 National Institutes of Health study, researchers found a decrease in longevity with every ranked step up on the body mass index (BMI). And overweight people know this. As Grania used to tell me, “You don’t have to tell people that they’re damaging their health by being overweight. They already know they’re overweight and the consequences of it.” Thus it bothers me that truly obese people are celebrated as being role models by virtue of their size. Yes, some people may consider them attractive, but nobody should aspire to their size. But, as I said, it’s not our job to police people’s weight. It’s the job of physicians, who are in charge of our health.
Using his trademarked combination of snark and data, Maher goes after the palpable obesity of Americans, something that’s striking when you’ve just returned home from, say, France or the Netherlands. As he says:
Being fat is bad thing. We shouldn’t taunt people about it, and overeating shouldn’t be singled out at the only vice; it’s not. We all have something. But there’s no “smoking acceptance” or “drunk acceptance”.
That, of course, raises the issue of why being obese is not only not shamed, but celebrated, while smoking or drinking to excess is not only demonized, but criticized in public. I remember that when the day my mother died, I went to the store and bought a pack of cigarettes. I almost never smoke a cigarette (I occasionally bum one), but this time I felt I needed the comfort of a cigarette to deal with my grief. When I was standing in line and asking for smokes, the guy behind started in on me: “Don’t you know that smoking cigarettes can kill you?”
I’m sure lots of smokers hear that, even when they’re smoking in legal places, but why is it okay to call out smoking but not obesity? (I wouldn’t call out either.) After all, it’s just as hard to stop smoking or drinking as it is to lose weight, so it’s not a matter of obesity being incurable. No, it has something to do with obesity being a characteristic that’s always visible, and thus something we should accept and not demonize, just as we should accept and celebrate differences in racial characteristics.
But I digress; Bill Maher deals with the issue far better than I:
That’s where I heard Weight Watchers literally removed the words “weight” and “watchers” from their name. A glance at Wikipedia and Google results confirms the precision of this claim,
I didn’t know that! So now the are WW International. Which, I suppose, means they are mostly concerned with whole wheat?
No, they like World Wars.
Or World Wide, or World Wrestling, or World Wildlife, or …
In this case I can be a Roman numeral
Witty observation
That’s like double speak for the deeply offended. Is our entire language and culture becoming so full of euphemism and codes hiding the truth that we are no longer speaking God’s English language? Books by good authors might have to have warning labels.
The funny thing is the new name is completely counterproductive: “Double you, double you” is presumably not their aim for the participants.
I’m a member. I’ve struggled with weight all my adult life.
Shucks! It will always be Weight Watchers to me. I joined reluctantly at the insistence of the doctor back in 1972.
But now, oh jeez, it’s “Wellness Works”. That’s the WW, the “Double-you, double-you”, which I find clumsy as the dickens.
No, I still say “Weight Watchers”, and I still struggle like the dickens.
Oh hell’s bells! They KNOW that most people will fail and will come back! They give us “Free lifetime membership” which is free as long as we remain within two pounds of our goal weight. And they know that 95% of us or so will fail and will come back and pay $$ again.
My weight has been up and down for these decades. In addition to Weight Watchers I did the short-lived Conway Club, the eventually apparently bankrupt LA Weight Loss, and spent nine years in Overeaters Anonymous (and don’t get me going on that 12-step bunch which I consider a cult).
After years of just flopping around and feeling miserable, my daughter and I went back to Weight Watchers, which changed its name early this year to WW, Wellness Works.
Here we go again. Success at first, and now we’re struggling and failing again.
Oh hell…I don’t know what the answer is. All I know is that we haven’t found the answer yet.
Wellness Works – didn’t know that.
Why not try reading Presto! by Penn Jillette? Ray Cronise is featured in it. I put links on this page to sample talks.
And while it’s not quite the same topic, it is still acceptable to joke about drinking in a way that makes light of alcoholism. Just think back to “Cheers,” where Norm (“Norm!”) was, simply put, an alcoholic. Why is this funny? And among my friends, it’s common to joke along the lines of “boy, what a week, is it too early in the day for a drink?”
I know most of this is just social convention, but I don’t see the same thing happening as often with smoking. There is the trope with a scorned lover drowning their sorrows in an entire tub of ice cream, but I don’t see overeating treated like this as often as I do drinking.
The food industry— which is diverse— doesn’t have lobbyists advocating for “overeating,” as do the single issue liquor and tobacco industries.
Or Belgium (although I think these Americans were played by Canadians):
The problem for me with using the word “palpable” when speaking about obese people is that it makes me want to palpate them, which would get me slugged to be sure.
Yes, if we really want to know what the American past time is – Eating would get the nod. I recall George Carlin did a good job on Americans and eating that you can see on You Tube. It is very much like the last bit you just covered, coffee and Starbucks. Lets see what we can do to something with no calories in it to make it really fun.
I think people are shamed in public for being overweight. I know I’m shamed for being pale. I’m told, even in my 40s when I’m long past my expiry date, that I look bad because I’m white and I can’t do anything about that but because people think I can, they tell me I’m unattractive. So, I can definitely say that other people are getting remarks whether it’s considered socially acceptable or not.
A few years ago I had major surgery for cancer, essentially an incision that went from almost midddle of abbomen to within a few inches of spinal cord. I was fortunate to be thin and in good shape.
But while in the hospital I became acutely aware of what a huge problem treating obese people is….as example, the number of nurses required to turn a patien over or to help get out of bed. And that is just tip of the iceberg. It’s also a huge issue in elder care.
So I wonder, What will be the effect of these expenses on a nationalized healthcare system, especially since many of the countries which are used for expense benchmark don’t have the kind of obesity rates present in the United States.
My local paramedic firefighter friend spends *most* of his time trying to transport people over 300lbs who cannot move on their own.
Back when I was a volunteer firefighter the EMT’ referred to the obese as toads in order to let the firefighters know that there was some heavy lifting required.
Perhaps one of the reasons for the differences in social sensitivity between being fat and smoking or drinking is that fat children are (or were – times are a changin) relentlessly bullied and harassed. Children can be incredibly cruel and few are more subject to that cruelty than other fat kids. So we* all remember what we did to the fat kids in school and then as we age, because we have bad eating habits and don’t exercise, we start spreading. The shoe then is on the other foot.
*”we” in the editorial sense. Present company excluded.
“So we all remember what we did to the fat kids in school.”
I certainly do. In fact, one of the poems in my first book of poetry, Listeners at the Breathing Place, contains the stanza:
I thought of Jerry Grant and me
perfecting our private whistle,
pooling our strengths against the strangeness of girls,
and losing, and of Thomas Grubham,
the fattest kid in the Cub Scouts,
who could never get the hang of cruelty
no matter how hard
we pumped it into him.
The cruelty is nonexistent in my community. I just got both of my kids out of elementary school and I never heard of anything like what I grew up with in the 80s.
It’s ok for kids to be fat. That is the norm. To me, that’s child abuse. The solution is obvious: cut class time in half till age 12 and make most of the day PE. They will be happier, healthier, and smarter.
Body Mass Index (mass divided by height squared) is a pretty crude measurement of obesity. It works in some cases, but not well in people with a lot of muscle. Vladimir Klitchko (longtime heavy weight champion with chiseled physique) is 2 meters tall and 100 kg so BMI = 100/(2×2) = 25 = overweight.
A weight loss program will show no improvement according to BMI if five pounds of fat are converted to five pounds of muscle. There are devices available (fancy scales) that estimate muscle and fat content. A low fat-to-muscle percentage is a much better health indicator.
I was a competitive athlete for a number of years and my BMI was frequently in the “overweight” category (usually only just). Fortunately humans, especially those in health care, are easily capable of understanding if the BMI is an appropriate metric to use in any particular case.
You don’t need all that stuff to figure it out anyway. All you need is a mirror.
Yes I mirrored my self to anorexia in my younger days and always thought I was fat.
A much more reliable method is to just keep some of your old clothing. I have many pants and shirts from years ago. I can instantly assess my size just from how my clothing fits.
Yes, but it works. In science there is no such thing as a perfect metric. BMI is just one tool used to determine relative health. There are many people who are above their BMI because of excess muscle mass. But for the average person it works very well.
No, it works very poorly for individuals, as the people who first proposed it recognized. It is valid for populations not for individuals.
It’s a horrible measure for individuals.
Here’s why.
BMI is totally off for tall people, too. My husband is 6’4″ and even when he was quite slender, his BMI indicated he was overweight.
You don’t have to return from overseas to notice the regional frequency of this problem. Go from affluent urban areas on on east or west coast (especially from the west coast) toward the interior of the U.S., and you will definitely notice a difference.
It’s almost totally a class issue. I live in Texas and go to an affluent gym and also to one far less affluent.
The difference in obesity rates is like night and day….just astonishing. In the less affluent one you see people of unimaginable obesity, something obvious in the locker room in many details.
In the richer gym, almost no one, maybe 1 handful, could be considered obese. And it’s not just an issue of age.
And also, there is an issue of race involved, with white people tending to be thinner than blacks and hispanics ( I also shop at places like Sam’s.) Yes, I am aware of obesity issues among whites.
“Who the fuck died and made you Surgeon General?”, is what I hope you said to the officious buttinsky.
Naah, I just fixed him with a withering gaze and said that I don’t usually smoke but my mother just died and I needed a cigarette.
Hmmmm, because upon a bagazillion occasions
an eyeroll just is not enough of a response
and because, then, I require a more potent
deal such as “a withering gaze,” I googled
same so as, practicing my acting skills,
I could at a needed time, then, display
‘ne off.
This = http://www.insider.com/michelle-pfeiffer-scarface-tribeca-film-festival-weight-question-2018-4 = … … came up within
my search upon how, say, to ‘adopt’ such
a portrayed feature … … such
“a withering gaze.”
So, indeed: I like hers, Ms Pfeiffer’s, and
‘ll try, well PCC(E), to hone it for myself.
For my required future response – use.
Blue
I was very interested that he linked this to health care for all–that we have some responsibility, too. Some skin(s)–our personal hide and dollars–in the game. Maher said some things out loud that need saying. And as he does so often he developed an evidence-based case for it.
An even better episode of Bill Maher’s “New Rule”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQBIBjbpzoQ . Ukraine wisely elected the comedian Volodymyr Zelensky to be President. We in the USA desperately need Bill Maher to become our Chief Executive.
I liked how he showed pictures from 50 years ago marking the anniversary of the moon landing and noting how there were no heavy people in the pictures. The “fat man” from the circus from 100 years ago looked like just a “guy” from now.
People do say to me I need to gain some weight as he pointed out. I don’t react.
Yeah, when I was a kid in the early 70’s watching “All in the Family”, I thought Archie Bunker was really fat. Now he looks average to me. Strange.
I recently saw the documentary “Fed Up” that covers this topic: http://fedupmovie.com/#/page/home
We don’t hear much talk about the power of the food industry, but their influence on our legislators is supersized!
I’ve come to appreciate Bill Maher’s takes 95%+ of the time. On the weight issue, I agree it should not be treated as a non-problem, and should be treated as a leading public health issue, with science leading. But this is only the surface issue. On a deeper level, for many obese with real eating problems it is like being an alcoholic: with it comes a sense of shame and despair, and it’s as hard for many of them to “just eat less” as it is for an alcoholic to stop drinking.
I have obese relatives, who I noticed on FB, before the unfriended me for being atheist and intelligent (I shit you not, they were pissed at me for that and told me so), would post pictures of food, recipes and platitudes about Jesus. It’s only over the last few years that I can stand to look at images of food. When I was anorexic, I found images of food really off putting and didn’t understand why anyone would want a calendar of food images.
I bet you really miss the platitudes about Jesus. 😎
Haha hells no! But I have been told, as you know, by strangers on FB that I’m going to hell. That’s actually entertaining for me because I can post it on my own FB and amuse my atheist friends.
I weigh 106 pounds.
I used to weigh 198.
I had two health problems that prevented me from moving around easily. One was corrected surgically, and the other with meds, so that once I could move, I began to lose wight. Over a period of a year-and-a-half, I slowly became a more normal weight as I was able to get around better; I got interested in power-walking, which I would not have been able to do.
The medicine I was taking at the time (and still take) was costing me $400/month. It was a struggle to pay for it, but I did because it worked so much better than anything I’d used previously. It is now generic and costs $10/month.
The surgery was paid for by my insurance, but my doctor had to fight for me to get it. I have a friend who is currently overweight who needs the same surgery I had; when she was evaluated, she was told that her condition was not yet bad enough for them to pay for it. What’s next, when she deteriorates enough will they tell her she’s too far gone and they can’t fix it?
My point is that sometimes situations are more complex than outside observers realize. Our healthcare system is set up to benefit the for-profit industry, not to help people. Many times people are actively sabotaged.
Sure, some people are just eating too much. But beware of simplifying what is complex and can be a lot more than what you see on the surface.
L
Congratulations!
To understand how amazing that is, consider carrying a single weight-lifting plate (aka free weight) – one that’s about the size of a dinner plate is ~10 lbs. – in a backpack during one’s day. It would immediately be a nuisance. You did that times almost 90.
Um, s/90/9/
Yes. People don’t realize how even small things can so drastically affect your mobility that they lead to other issues. I’m dealing with issues with my feet right now that affect me walking (I sectional Achilles tendinosis so micro tears brought on by equinuus foot) and I can tell you it can lead to all sorts of problems when you can’t walk much. I’ve even heard of people who have. Even out off for surgeries for legs and hips gaining weight and developing diabetes.
The mobility thing is a big issue for me. Once I got my problems under control, I felt like flying. Of course, I was not in shape at first, so flying was only a fantasy, but little by little I got there.
People don’t realize how issues which affect mobility can have a ripple effect. For instance, meds that I was taking prior to the one that finally worked were “solving” the problem, but the side effects were causing me to not be able to sleep, so I was exhausted all the time. That alone will compromise mobility.
Universal healthcare, however we get there, should be a priority. Healthy people contribute more and cost less. My surgery may have cost my insurance company upfront, but in the twenty years since I lost the weight I have not cost them anything except for an annual physical and mammogram. So, they ended up ahead.
L
Yeah, definitely. Before I got a knee injury, I was in good shape. I had no health insurance and had to scrape together $12,000 to pay out of pocket for surgery and live with being crippled for the several months it took to do that. Then I had a six-month recovery from surgery and couldn’t afford physical therapy. Ever since then I’ve been slowly gaining weight since I can’t move as well. (The surgery didn’t fully correct the problem – or at least I never fully recovered – but at least I can walk and jog lightly.)
But it’s true that I also eat too much for my current level of activity and I know that. Well, I eat what I’ve always eaten and it’s a habit that’s hard to change.
Your’s is a great success story. Good to hear. “Many times people are actively sabotaged” – I could tell a few stories…
That’s a hard fight. There is a lot on the surface that makes these problems look simple, but it’s almost always complex.
I recall that decades ago [in UK] it was commonly said that fat folks were jolly & funny, but perhaps the truth is they were figures of fun – the but [butt?] of jokes & thus cheered up all around them in a less sensitive era. I have an image of Oliver Hardy or the laughing policeman in my head as I write this.
Anyway, we should not make fun of fatties – they have enough on their plate!
“Anyway, we should not make fun of fatties – they have enough on their plate!”
I couldn’t let that one go by without a good guffaw.
I’m pleased someone clapped 🙂
We may not have clapped but most of us snickered!
I didn’t snicker, but I winked to myself.
Haha I guess you did a pun there too.
My favorite is Almond Joy, but couldn’t figure out how to work that in 🙂
Not reached the UK except for a period in WWII when it was in GI rations. We have an inferior copy from Mars [not the planet unfortunately] called the Bounty, which like the mounds has no almond! Good, but not an Almond Joy.
I think we have those here too – don’t they have coconut on them?
All three are essentially the same – chocolate covered coconut flakes
Almond Joy, CCN + milk choc + one almond
Mounds, CCN + dark choc
Bounty, CCN + milk choc
In 1990, the average rate of obesity in all states was 11.1% with Mississippi being number 1 at 15%. Colorado was the lowest at 6.9%. In 2017 Colorado was still the lowest, but at a whopping 22.6%, which is higher than all states in 1990! West Virginia leads the pack at 38.1% and the US Average in 2017 was 30.6% When we travel back to our native Indiana [33.6% obese], we marvel not only at the numbers but also of the size of fat folks – 300 pounders seem to be a dime a dozen.
Wikipedia’s entry on this shows: ” Between 1986 and 2000, the prevalence of severe obesity (BMI ≥ 40 kg/m2) quadrupled from one in two hundred Americans to one in fifty. Extreme obesity (BMI ≥ 50 kg/m2) in adults increased by a factor of five, from one in two thousand to one in four hundred.” That’s enough for me to want to make a better effort myself. I’m not normally considered fat at 180 lb, but I could still improve. I was 150 lb when I was 20, but that would be an unrealistic goal. Maybe a fasting day or two, like Jerry does, would do the trick.
Here’s my weight loss graph in Euro-units – I’ve gone from 205 lb to 188 lb in 14 weeks. By mid-March 2020 I will hit my target of 143 lbs. In summary I’m aiming for a 63 lb loss & I’m 25% there.
https://flic.kr/p/2hcyP9y
I ballooned sitting in a wheelchair & need to lose a lot before walking again.
My daily plan is:
3 x 20 minute exercise mat at times I like during the day. [That’s the hardest part of the regime at the beginning because stressing underused joints & muscles = aches & pains]
1 hour swim on each of 3 days a week
1/2 pint fresh, real [as in not concentrate] fruit juice + vitamin D for b/fast
As much water, tea, coffee as desired [no milk or sugar is my norm]
One ‘meal’ only in the early to mid-evening
Bed no less than 3 hours after the ‘meal’.
TO DETERMINE ‘MEAL’ OPTION FOR THE DAY:
I roll a D10 dice at 6pm
1: No food
2-5: One hot meal
6-10: One cold meal
Cold meal is just a bowl of muesli, extra nuts + milk
The reason for the die roll is to save messing with a calendar & if I drift above my target green line I can adjust the odds. Tomorrow I go to the odds below because I’m above the trend line I set myself:
1-2: No food
3-5: One hot meal
6-10: One cold meal
Easy plan to execute if eating for one & if one is not slave to the gut – I don’t have cravings nor hunger pangs so it’s a doddle. Not a good plan for those with IBS or sugar balance problems of course.
I have fairly severe IBS and this would probably still work for me. I stick to reducing exposure to FODMAPS foods. They are everywhere and everyone is different to what they react to the most. For me it’s garlic. And garlic is in everything. If I eat a small amount of garlic or garlic powder, my stomach bloats and I look 6 months pregnant. I will spare you the rest of the intestinal descriptions. Suffice it to say my stomach wants no part of it and just fobs it off to the colon to deal with. So, in other words, i think your method would still work and i like the idea of rolling a die because for the love of all that is holy I hate figuring out what to eat and will eat the same thing everyday until I never want to eat it again just to avoid trying to figure out what to eat.
A very good point. By dicing it one is not needing to think about food at all – not having food at the centre of ones thoughts & just obeying the dice like a slave is paradoxically freedom, when on a diet regime. Must obey the dice in all things though!
P.S. I never say die – so to speak. 🙂
Good Grief – You could be teaching classes to the rest of us on this problem. The word I am looking for that most do not have is discipline. You obviously have it in large amounts. My only problem is what happens to nearly all of us going into old age and that is the need to cut back. We cannot eat like we are 30 when we are 69 or even 60. If we do not pay attention or have someone get on our butt about it, pretty soon you look like those guys walking into Walmart. We just make excuses and there really aren’t any.
Thank you Randall. I was tipped off by my body in small ways that I was doing something wrong or I had an illness. I was thinking it was my biome or an allergy arriving at 63 years of age. Rot of course!
Symptoms that have disappeared with loss of only one stone & disciplined day & no booze:
** Acid reflux [couldn’t sleep flat]
** Related to above sudden intolerance of dairy – wouldn’t stay down even when up & about
** Spices as above & I bloody love spicy food
** Poor concentration
** Chronic tiredness
** Poor balance [not booze – this persisted even when booze free for a week]
** More intolerant than usual high intolerance levels [that’s of people, not weather, not animals]
** Reduced hand coordination
Putting myself on a diet/exercise program solved all the above – much of the symptoms are only tangentially related to weight, but once I could kip properly the other benefits followed. And some nice ladies down the pool assists probably. 🙂
Quit a success story. Gives the rest of us something to shoot for.
Let’s see how it pans out although I’m certain I will hit my target. The one thing I know is diets fail more often than not – with the deblubberer putting it back on & even overshooting their start point.
More than 80% of obese people who diet gain it back, because crash dieting activates the body machines famine setting – body more efficiently conserves body fat [it is claimed] & this setting remains active even when the crash diet ends. Thus the rebound is quicker & harder than the crash.
People gained back some of their weight with a setting on low, burning about 700 fewer calories per day than it did before they started losing weight in the first place.
On the assumption the above is not baloney [it might be] I’m not crash dieting [I could lose that 60 odd pounds easily in 26 weeks not the 52 I’m going for] – a slower loss supposedly doesn’t put the body into its famine mode setting [I have my doubts], but also my D10 regime is easily adjustable for life without calenders & that ridiculous calorie counting fad. Calorie counting is fine for science measurements, but it’s also a sure fire way to turn a mentally well balanced fatso into a neurotic, food obsessed bore who is often still a fatso. 🙂
When I’m back walking I can return to a more expansive lifestyle & keep the dice in a drawer for if I go +5% regain or some such.
Gosh! You make it sound easy. 😉
Michael: You are doing the right things.
We only know one thing, for sure, about diets: They don’t work.
When someone tells me about their new diet, I always ask (if I choose not to remain silent), “Can you do that for the rest of your life?”
If not, it’s pretty much a waste of time.
I tell people, at risk of speaking cliches, which I hate, that I have changed my relationship with food. I have changed my lifestyle.
My weight loss rate was 13-14 days per pound (linear regression). I tell people: I’m not in a hurry. I’m not going back to how I lived before. I’m in this for the full-lifetime haul.
http://www.berettaconsulting.com/barbarossa/PandJ-Family/2018/2018-03-04/Weight.jpg
What motivated me? I had a stroke (out of the blue, an ischemic stroke — and I’ve always had “fabulous” bloodwork, cholesterol numbers, despite my overweight). My numbers are even better now. And, very luckily, I have no perceptible after-effects of the stroke.
(I knew immediately I was having a stroke and called 911 immediately. I was being treated with 45 minutes of first onset of symptoms. I was very lucky to have a top stroke center near as well.)
That’s encouraging news. Though I’ve never had a real life threatening condition, I had chest pain which I took to be a heart attack some time ago. It turned out to be some musculoskeletal kink that recurs, but is seemingly benign. The experience does keep health and diet on my mind. I’ve been quite lucky healthwise speaking.
I admire your self discipline. My plan sounds pretty wimpy compared to yours. I plan to stop eating ice cream and reduce my wine intake by 50%. My graph will not be as radical as yours, but if I drop from 180 lb to 170 lb, I think I’ll be pretty happy. My exercise routine takes care of itself since I am rehabilitating my lawns and gardens which gives plenty of opportunity to expend unneeded calories.
Think Thin Thoughts.
Ditto for my plan, but I am headed in the right direction. Exercise is key for me as well – in addition to lawn and garden work, I play basketball twice a week, and also get in a little walking/biking. I have also gotten in to the habit of only eating about one half of the restaurant portions, taking the other half home for a second meal on the following day.
I like the doggy bag trick too. I’m a member of a birding group so once a month I usually can count on some hiking.
THE DICE MAN
The was an episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon starts making decisions based on dice roles, including if he should go to the bathroom or have another beverage.
To save brain power/time expended on determining trivial decision outcomes I believe – not seen episode. Dicing to include bodily functions is a bridge too far though 🙂
Isn’t corn syrup the root of all evil? Many people eat out of boxes and corn syrup is used a lot.
My weight issues sound much like yours – as I crept past 180, it became clear that I really should weigh about 165. And at my age, 73, it boils down to eating two meals a day – a cereal and fruit breakfast and a decent late lunch/early dinner. And of course a good IPA during the ball game!
Another good idea. Thanks for your suggestion.
What changed in 1990 or somewhat before that can account for these astounding numbers?
Nina Teicholz (The Big Fat Surprise) puts a lot of it on increased sugar consumption.
This was intended as a reply to Douglas E’s post #18.
One thing that popped into my mind is the level of activity of folks now versus in the 1990’s or earlier. A quick look at some research indicates that this is one factor, and another is the huge increase in number of calories consumed on a daily basis, especially meat. I had to think about how the size of restaurant portions seem about 2-3 times as big as they used to be.
https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/obesity/
Teicholz claims red meat consumption declined over the period when obesity started climbing. In general, she argues dietary fat is not the culprit at all, The subtitle of her book is Why Butter, Meat, and Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet.
Her views are controversial, and I don’t have a strong opinion if she is right on this. But it’s rationalization for eating what I like, and using the exercise side of the equation to remain in good health – it involves a lot of exercise.
Teicholtz is a fraud. She has no clue what she is talking about. She along with noakes and taubes have created a narrative that is as illusory as intelligent design.
As written before, I don’t know if she’s right. However, a great number of her detractors, sounding like you, tend to push me her way.
What should push you her way is evidence — not vacuous opinion.
The result of the demonization of fat is that most people in the U.S. are now fat. The culprit in our diets is sugar, not fat.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html
Yes. The demonization of sugar even though sugar consumption has declined, fat consumption has increased. The inability to accept the facts: the obesity epidemic is the result of the consumption of too much fat, too much protein and too much carb ie too much energy is sobering. In nutritional science it is an accepted fact. See stephan guyenet at whsource, and seth yoder at the science of nutrition.
Ray Cronise points out the energy density and composition of the western diet :
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/met.2016.0108
For a popular account see Penn Jillette’s Presto.
Ray Cronise – TED Med talk on thermal loading (or insight to why Michael Phelps could eat what he ate while training): https://youtu.be/UrQ_ldCwKUQ
Penn Jillette at Google – book talk – : https://youtu.be/4jBWUhFagXM
^^^i didn’t watch the whole thing but read his book, so..,,
I point out a common piece of nonsense right in plain view in the title:
“Why Butter, Meat, and Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet”
A diet is inanimate. Not alive. How are things that are not alive judged to be healthy or not? They aren’t. It is also meaningless to suggest specific foods will maintain a healthy individual because the quantities are unspecified. As such, the author’s truth claims originate from the snake oil sector. The language matters. The title also matters to the extent that I would strongly judge this book by its cover alone.
As I understand it, sugar is burned preferentially before fat. Which means too much of either is bad for you. Too much sugar and you’ll never burn off the fat. But then if you don’t have too much fat in the first place, there’d be no need to burn it off.
cr
All hail the pure sugar diet! Excuse me, is this your tooth?
My teeth are fine, thank you. I’ve still got most of them. And I didn’t see a dentist for decades until a couple of years back. (It is only now that dentistry has improved to the point where going-to-the-dentist is no longer the most fear-inducing experience of my life).
Flouridated water helps enormously. And regular brushing of course.
cr
I have shitty teeth. Sure, they look fine but I’ve had lots of cavities and I’ve had 3 root canals with one resulting in an implant and one getting a brand new infection in the bone 2 years later. I go to the dentist for a cleaning every 3 months and brush and floss religiously. I’m lucky my work has a really good dental plan.
George Monbiot has an interesting article about this.
Some of the points he makes:
* Obesity data from the UK only goes back to 1988, at which point people were already getting fat, but in the US, which has better data, the inflection point seems to be around 1976.
* People in the UK ate more in 1976 than they do today.
* People working at hard labor are much more likely to be obese than those working in offices, so it’s not simply a matter of jobs being easy these days.
* Despite smart phones and video games, children’s overall physical activity is the same as 50 years ago, but children are much fatter now.
* Physical exercise doesn’t seem to be strongly correlated with good weight.
* Endocrine-disrupting chemicals, adenoviruses, etc. don’t seem to be sufficient to explain the trend.
His observation and belief:
“Yes, we ate more in 1976, but differently. Today, we buy half as much fresh milk per person, but five times more yoghurt, three times more ice cream and – wait for it – 39 times as many dairy desserts. We buy half as many eggs as in 1976, but a third more breakfast cereals and twice the cereal snacks; half the total potatoes, but three times the crisps. While our direct purchases of sugar have sharply declined, the sugar we consume in drinks and confectionery is likely to have rocketed (there are purchase numbers only from 1992, at which point they were rising rapidly. Perhaps, as we consumed just 9kcal per day in the form of drinks in 1976, no one thought the numbers were worth collecting). In other words, the opportunities to load our food with sugar have boomed.”
Yes, contrary to some of the hysterical, evidence free criticisms above there is support for sugar consumption being at the root of obesity problems. I’ve seen enough reversals in dietary theory to reserve judgement.
I do find limiting sugar has the surest effect on my own fitness. I can have a one pound rib-eye and bottle of wine a couple times a week and not gain fat, even as I consume a lot of milk and cheese. Add a couple more cookies every day and that changes. That it works for me doesn’t mean it will work for you, and that is a problem with this science, one size does not fit all – the mutation allowing people to consume milk as adults is conclusive proof.
How do you know there is a “root” to be found?
Like most who have had to lose weight at one point or another, I have some sympathy for Maher’s points, and also for overweight people.
I’m 55, and have been slim for most of my life with the exception of two times where I overate, for too long, and put on some serious weight. About 12 years ago, over the period of a couple years, I went from 150 lbs (5′ 9″) to 196 lbs. Somehow got addicted to eating crap, and stopped moving. It felt truly, truly awful! I got back to my healthy pattern, dropped all the weight, and have been that way for 10 years or so. Then, had a confluence of major stressors about 1 1/2 years ago, working night and day, and stress-ate, becoming addicted again to fat and sugar.
It was truly bizarre going from having good eating habits, and indulging in sweats whenever I felt like it without it triggering over-eating, to becoming what felt like a slave to crap food. And my tolerance for being even a bit hungry when trying to work seemed to totally collapse.
No amount of fat-shaming poking fun at me from my wife and kids helped in the slightest. I knew EXACTLY what to do, and how to eat, to be healthy. I’ve been doing it most of my life. But no matter how many times that part of my brain yelled at the addicted part, it just didn’t matter. All good intent was gone by mid-day when the “I have to have it” portion simply over-rode my reasoning mind.
If there is anything that would convince me we don’t have free will…THAT type of experience would be it! 🙂
And I put on weight that I never imagined I’d put on again.
Fortunately, my internal “switch” turned back on, and I can’t be absolutely sure why, maybe a lessening of external stress to a degree, and almost overnight I no longer craved junk food. I could be in a room with a pile of freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies – my go-to trigger as I’d been eating at least one big one per day – and not have the slightest problem ignoring them. Now I’m back to eating “normally,” and the weight’s been dropping off again, quickly. Will be back to my normal weight in a month or two I figure.
So my point is that, having now experienced this twice in my life, I have some real empathy for people whose brain is stuck in that food addiction state. And I really try to refrain from being judgemental.
On the other hand, as someone who is usually slim, and lucky to be able to ultimately get out of those unhealthy patterns, I do look at grossly overweight people and the thought goes through my head “Ok, so I put on a some weight, but I took it off. I can get putting on some weight…but how do you allow yourself to keep going and put on THAT much weight to the point your very ability to move and live life is impeded? I get scared as hell if I even start putting on 20 or 30 lbs, let along a hundred or three hundred!”
I guess if you have the brain-addicted-to-bad-food happening but also within a social surrounding where everyone else is doing it and so you don’t have even the social pressure to stop, that’s a deadly combination. As one seems to see in parts of the USA.
I have found myself, on some occasions, medicating myself with alcohol for external stressors. So far, always with benign and reversible consequences.
I am ashamed to admit that observing the “huge” number of excessively fat people around me is disturbing. Especially the children. But, I try to remember that not all of them are fat due to overeating or eating junk food. Some have health issues that make them fat. Some take medications that cause excess weight.
My husband had high triglycerides which caused him to develop a “beer belly”. He was treated by physicians with niacin (which caused a terrible, itchy rash), then massive doses of fish oil that didn’t reduce his triglycerides. It was only when we tried him on a low-carb diet that his triglycerides got even close to normal and he lost about 50 lbs. Previously, his blood had to be sent to a special lab to be tested because of the extremely high amount of fat in his blood.
Yes. Some people are fat because of what they eat, or the amounts. Some of these people live in locations that are “good food deserts”. Some may not be able to afford nutritious foods. Many can’t afford to see doctors. And, yes, this problem affects us all.
Re triglycerides – there is a genetic component to levels of tris and some folks can live long healthy lives with very high levels.
You are right about a genetic component to levels of triglycerides. My son also has high triglycerides controlled by a low carb diet. When my husband’s were first discovered, they were 1800+ when normal is considered to be 150 or less.
Fat shaming is good. I wouldn’t call “fat ass” someone in person, but we need people like Bill Maher saying exactly that on TV. Unfortunately he didn’t mention what I think is one the most important problems with obesity: obese parents humiliate their children. When I was a kid, I was always ashamed of my obese relatives.
My grandmother was obese and I was never ashamed of her. I felt bad for her because she’d actually hide food in the house like an addict. She had diabetes and was very unhealthy. She died in her 60s.
At the same time people praised me for my slim figure and I was starving myself and underweight. My doctor mentioned to me that it was bad but no one ever said anything negative and I enjoyed losing weight for the positive remarks. It’s an interesting thing.
This is real and frustrating. At my lightest, I was not by any means my healthiest. A diet of coffee, cigarettes and chronic stress might make you thin, but certainly not healthy.
–
A few years back I decided to try to make a point of letting people know I was pleased to see them without tying it to their appearance. Where in the past I might have said, “You look wonderful, so nice to see you!” I now go with something like “I’m so happy to see you, how wonderful to connect again!”. It may be a small thing, but I like to think I’m not accidentally hurting someone by complimenting what might actually be a bad thing.
Yes and it happens to women with cancer as well. They often talk about how they are complimented for being dangerously thin. Some reply, “this is what malnutrition looks like”.
I didn’t want to be more specific, but I was fine with my grandmas being a bit overweight. But when I see young kinds walking behind their parents’ fat asses, I know how they’re feeling.
As others above have pointed out, there is a class issue here as well. A few years back I was on an investigatory board looking into food insecurity in the rural region where I lived. I’ll never forget what one social worker said to us regarding meal preparation and healthy eating – ‘The dollar burger wins every time. In terms of caloric bang for your buck, it can’t be beat. In terms of speed and ease, it can’t be beat. It will be the death of us’. I agree with his sentiment.
I was horrified when I went to The States and saw a family of behemoths get off the tour bus, waddle into the theme park and ride mobility scooters to the nearest taco joint. I so hoped I wouldn’t have to sit next to their likeness on the plane home.
The latest news (as summarized by ScienceBasedMedicine) suggests that ‘fit but fat’ is not healthy in the long term.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/update-on-the-obesity-epidemic/
However there is also a definite trend in the ‘Fat Acceptance’ movement to treat those who attempt to control their weight as ‘Apostates’ who need to be ‘shamed back into the fold’. This article linked off Wikipedia is revealing.
https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/big-trouble
In Auckland (NZ) hospitals there is a big issue with hospital beds for extremely obese people. They have to be especially made, they’re expensive, and they need a lot of them. Auckland has a high Pasifika population, and it’s a cultural thing with many Pacific Island cultures to be overweight as it’s a sign of high status.
I think shaming people for being overweight is different from smoking etc. because it’s about people’s physical appearance, so it’s more personal and nastier. However, I agree we shouldn’t be celebrating being overweight.
We have a problem with obesity in NZ too. Iirc statistically we’re second only to the US these days, or maybe 3rd. Bad anyway. We’re addressing it starting from when children are really young. Even primary school children can tell you what the best foods to eat are. References to good food are in all parts of the curriculum, even ones like maths.
It’s a long-term approach that all political parties are supporting. It’s the sort of thing you can do when you have a single-payer health system because there’s the long-term goal of a healthier population meaning they will cost less in terms of health in the future, which is particularly important with an aging population and less younger people to support them with their taxes. (We’re doing stuff in relation to smoking too.)
Most schools have vege gardens, and the children are taught to grow the veges, then cook them themselves. A point is made of ensuring good taste and making the whole thing enjoyable.
Most schools ban things like sugary drinks too. Kids have water in their drink bottles, there are guidelines for parents on the sort of thing to put in lunchboxes. More and more schools in poorer areas have free breakfast in schools programmes so the kids are ready for learning.
It’s being tackled in adults too. There’s been a big focus on Type II diabetes in particular, which includes weight loss programmes and ongoing support to keep the weight off.
Interesting to see how NZ is doing. I admire the government putting pressure on the problem without apology.
When I was sub teaching at local high school, I noted that there was a soda machine in the teacher’s lounge but not in the rest of the building. Once, a student begged me to get him a Coke from the machine. I knew a 16 year old addict when I saw one and refused.
My motto for… well up to now, since early teens, some fifty odd years, is from some lyrics in a Jethro Tull song:
“Dont want to be a fat man, i havent got the patience to ignore all that”
And just for the humour id finish off with,
“roll us both down a mountain and im sure the fat man would win”
Im thin and i get skinny comments, how do you stay that way they ask… exercise, played drums all my life, stuff like, dont take lifts if stairs are an option, i love walking, eating fresh vegetables like a religion, know when you’ve had enough and i dont eat shit between meals.
Perversely, this allows me fo eat shit ( big cake fan ) when its offered or i feel like it…
Wait, “roll us both down a mountain and I’m sure the fat man would win” ? Didn’t Galileo debunk that myth?
Ha.ha yeah… Ian Anderson, who wrote the song, probably didn’t do the experiment, musician extraordinaire although he was… eh still is, touring and all.
The solution is that more people should smoke. A joke, of course, but sometimes I wonder about those old pictures, like the 1969 moon shot Maher mentions, or 1930s footage of factory workers you can view on youtube and how many of those folks also chain smoked high nicotine cigarettes, which suppresses appetite.
It’s not like the American diet (or lifespan) has been in monotonic decline from the start. On the contrary, on average Americans are living longer than ever. In the 19th century foreigner’s would comment on the insane levels of American alcohol consumption, often consumed morning, lunch and evening. If that were to happen today, it would be called an epidemic of alcoholism.
Mostly true, but USA life expectancy has been on a downturn for three years – this is without world wars or plagues, the grim reaper is walking among a fracturing society is my best guess looking from the UK [& we will follow of course].
The CDC says this is due to increases in drug ODs [opioids], liver disease [maybe alcohol & obesity] & suicides [no reason given]. Suicides globally have dropped 33% over two decades, but increased 30% in the USA for approx the same period.
Life expectancy in the USA is around 3.5 years less than Canada.
SOURCE
The problem is, I think, multifactorial. Eg the intestinal microbiome undoubtedly plays a role in metabolic syndrome. After a stomach bypass most DM II sufferers normalise their blood sugar within days, well before they start seriously losing weight. What also changes in days is their intestinal microbiome. Not a proof, but a strong indication the microbiome plays a role. It is not very clear how the diet influences this, but it probably does.
A high sugar and starch intake is also suspected to cause obesity. Note that alcohol is also a kind of carbohydrate.
Hormones can influence too (eg the truncular obesity associated with chronic steroid use). And then, of ourse, exercise, I think that it has been well established that regular exercise is beneficial.
And I didn’t even mention the ubiquitous use of antibiotics, that most certainly has an impact on our microbiota. Undoubtedly there are some direct genetic factors too.
There are a few other things that are very probably true: that the low fat diet with all these low fat products, where fat is replaced by sugars to make them palatable, has had an negative impact. As have all these highly processed foods with lots of preserving, anti-caking, anti-foaming, etc. agents.
However, there is no reason to believe GMO’s would have had an impact
Nutrition ‘science’ is hardly a science (yet), not in the least because people are known to lie nearly systematically about what they eat.
Any woman will testify about how hormones play a part in weight gain and weight loss. Also medications…my use of Lyrica for chronic pain and migraines gave me a 10 pound weight gain that I lost as soon as I stopped taking it. Using topiramate as a migraine preventative, made me lose 10-20 pounds (I liked that pill but it made me stupid as it slows neuronal activity).
Supersize everything & corn syrup – what else?!
It’s just another symptom of modern woke-ness gone wild. We are required to pretend that being fat, or deaf, or blind, or mentally retarded, or crippled, or having any other disability, is perfectly all right and not a disability at all, even though anyone with half a brain can see perfectly well that that’s exactly what it is, a disability. We’re even required to pretend that disability doesn’t exist, lest the sufferer feel embarrassed.
‘Otherwise abled’ is not just an offence against grammar, it’s a transparent attempt to compensate and usually self-evident nonsense.
Consideration for afflicted peoples’ feelings has somehow morphed into the ludicrous situation where disabilities are now somehow unmentionable – in the same way that homosexuality used to be unmentionable in the bad old days. We don’t talk about it.
cr
FUUUUCK!
I just went and weighed myself. 87kgs. With a roughly-measured height of 169cm gives a BMI of 30.5 which is ‘obese’.
So then I measured myself again more carefully and without slouching (or cheating) and added 7cm (3″) to my height and got my BMI down to 28 which is merely ‘overweight’. Moral: Slouching makes you more overweight! 🙂
But anyway, this thread has decided me that I need to diet a bit (which I have never, ever done before). And keep up the walking, so long as my dodgy ankles will last (obviously losing a few pounds would help with that).
cr
The “never dieted before” lifestyle landed me way into the obese category a few years back. The solution for me ended up being…. wait for it….. diet and exercise, and now I hover around normal-to-overweight threshold.
(Pro tip based on personal experience: don’t drink as much, if that is part of your lifestyle. I think most of my loss results from following a “never drink at home unless you have guests” rule. My collection of single malt Scotch seems rarely needs to be supplemented!)
My rule is don’t drink your calories unless it’s really worth it. This is where people going to Starbucks get themselves into trouble.
Well, to be fair, it depends on what they order. Black coffee isn’t much of a problem there, except in the taste department.
Yes of course. I’m referring to 80% of the other drinks which often involve whipped cream.
I guess for me, wine is calories that are worth it. But, my plan is to reduce the amount.
Just don’t eat dinner – the anorexic guide to weight loss.
LOL
I’ve been giving that a lot of thought lately. 🤔
“Just don’t eat dinner”
Yay! Works for me!
Which is to say, that’s probably why I’m only ‘overweight’ and not ridiculously fat, despite never having actually dieted.
Not eating breakfast probably helps, too.
The trick is to be too lazy to feed my face, or having more interesting things to do. 😉
cr
I never eat breakfast either. I’ve always hated eating in the morning. It makes me feel sick. I think it’s because I’m really a night owl. Waking me up is bad enough. I usually eat something around 11:30 am or noon.
@Diana
Me too. I’m definitely a ‘late’ person. At least partly because when I’m doing something I hate to stop it and go to bed.
Of course now I’m retired and don’t have to get up for work in the morning I’m much worse.
cr
If I don’t have to go to work, I become completely nocturnal.
You’re a true owl – I would expect only grudging daytime appearances outside your roost
With this kind of selective pressure for diurnality, I suppose we are witnessesing a speciation event. Observe, Homo macphersonius.
Haha. I’ve been like this all my life too. My mother was exasperated with my nocturnal habits and my hate of morning. It doesn’t help that I have pale skin and I’m prone to anemia. That’s how vampire rumours get started. Good thing I didn’t grow up in the time of witch trials.
You’ve chosen the perfect alter-self-image.
I also can’t eat garlic.
GB: Your comments are 100% reflected in my experience as well.
I view all carbs as empty calories. Unnecessary. So, I tend to spend my empty calories on drink.
And too much is definitely a problem: The calories direct from the drink, it causes one to be more susceptible to snacking, it stops one from moving, and it slows you metabolism. Ugh!
I rarely drink alcohol. I have a number of bottles of my favourite beer in my fridge but I usually forget to open one. Just on Saturday night (when I remember) or some TV program on the dangers of alcohol prompts me – which averages about one bottle a week.
I do drink far too much coffee (with milk and sugar in it) and Pepsi Max (the no-sugar stuff) – I should probably switch to more water.
cr
Well there’s your problem! You’ve lost the primary substance to cut back on!
I am aware of that! 😎
I faced the same problem recently when I had an attack of gout. I read all the literature on what to avoid for gout –
Shellfish – hate them.
Liver, kidneys etc – ugh!
Red meat – I’m not fond of it, usually only have it in meat pies.
Alcohol – very little.
So I’m already doing most of that stuff, it doesn’t leave a lot of room for manouevre.
And every article I read has a slightly different list – a bit like diets, really. Which one to believe?
Oh, and to put the icing on the cake – “fasting … can actually increase the chances of an attack [of gout] and should be avoided.”
Might as well give up and die already, eh?
cr
Good point. Death solves all these problems.
infinite:
This isn’t correct as stated unless the version of fasting you mean is where one abstains from liquids as well as solids. And AFAIK that form of fasting is a religious observance & not a health plan.
Gout is the condition where high concentrations of uric acid form crystals in the joints leading to severe, painful swelling. Drinking plenty of water while “fasting” will clear the uric acid & will eliminate any pre-existing gout.
My doctor just ran blood tests for uric acid. My bet is I don’t have any. He admitted he was fishing. I asked him to look into an orthopaedic surgeon referral.
Yeah I know what gout is. I was just quoting the first Google link that came up –
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315732.php
Which contradicts one means of losing weight, which is fasting.
The one thing most sources seem to agree on is that everything from gout to heart disease to joint health and exercise is greatly improved by NOT being overweight. Which is a great Catch-22.
cr
No, it isn’t a Catch 22. That link you are quoting says “fasting” increases the risk of a gout attack [& doesn’t define what they mean by fasting], but there’s a link to another site in their quote that speaks of “dieting” & doesn’t use the term “fasting” at all. That source link says “dieting” is good for reducing existing gout & preventing gout. It also recommends coffee & water when dieting for gout treatment.
Strangely enough your link, lower down on the the same page says “…losing weight can lower the risk of developing further gout attacks”
I conclude that the author, Silvana Montoya defines “fasting” as including not consuming liquids otherwise the page makes no sense to me.
I have a few comments. First, BMI is a bad measure of weight health. Here’s why.
If you are short, maybe it makes some sense. But it’s stupidly off the mark for tall and/or highly muscular people. And it matters, because important decisions get made off it for individuals — and shouldn’t be.
I have been working on losing weight for a while now. I’ve done OK (see graph). I’ve shed about 22% of my (much too high) body weight. (This is a little out of date.)
http://www.berettaconsulting.com/barbarossa/PandJ-Family/2018/2018-03-04/Weight.jpg
Note how noisy the data are. These are (nearly) daily data, so there’s a lot of variation.
Here’s how I did it.
I exercise – hard – for 50 to 70 minutes every day. I do a 14-mile time-trial on my bicycle most nights, which is about 51-54 minutes at 15.5-16.5 miles per hour (depending on the wind), average speed (in addition to weight lifting, and chronic PT exercises). This is a pretty intense workout. (If you’ve never done so, try to average >16 mph for an hour — it’s hard work!)
I’m almost 60 years old, have one artificial hip, the other bad knee, pretty bad asthma, a bad back, and have had one stroke (thankfully, as the neurologist described it, “tiny”). On Friday, I averaged 16.5 mph for 51 minutes. I feel pretty good about that.
My hat is off to you, exercise-wise. There’s no way I could maintain that sort of lifestyle. For me, I just try to satisfy my nagging Apple Watch’s demand that I “close my rings” which mostly translates to getting out for a brisk walk every day for a half hour or so. In winter I try to get to the fitness center four times a week and use the rowing machine or stationary bikes. (I’m 69, today!, and also have a fake hip.)
No need to go as hard as I do. I’m kind of addicted to it.* Walking every day is certainly all that’s needed (and how our ancestors evolved, in my opinion).
(* I spent my 20s and 30s climbing mountains, skiing down them, and WW- and sea-kayaking.)
Happy Birthday! 🙂
Heh… Well, they also evolved drinking beer! At least for the past 10,000 years or so.
And, thanks.
I didn’t know the company formerly known as Weight Watchers has a kayaking program
🙂
Since this thread has kind of transformed into “dieting, self-help”, anyone here tried intermittent fasting? Either day on day off, or monthly three day fasts.
Our host does this, fasting two days a week (if I remember correctly).
I tried skipping meals if I could, in the midst of eating small quantities of potatoes or other near-zero sugar foods, with the intent to rapidly (weeks to months) lose weight – in the end, 30 lbs. at greatest.
I do that now occasionally but only if I had a big meal before. It seems to me letting the material stall inside the digestive system isn’t a good idea, for a number of reasons including how I felt.
And now, from the opposition, James Corden : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax1U04c4gaw