57 thoughts on “Jesus ‘n’ Mo ‘n’ feminism”

  1. Yeah but as the SJW’s would say, if one of them feelz like a feminist, who’s going to oppress xie by imposing a gender on xie?

    cr
    (Not sure if I got the right terminology there…)

    1. Well if they internally identify as women then yes, they can speak on behalf of women. Having been through the same struggles etc – FGM, having to wear a veil, being regarded as property, all that stuff.

      1. Someone once made a great comment about all of this gender bending stuff.

        That if gender identity (in some cases, actual biological sex) = nothing more than a declaration, a declaration that cannot be challenged (if you do challenge said declaration then you are a bigot)…

        Then if 50% of the world’s male leaders all claimed a gender identity of ‘woman’. would the SJWs accept that women now have equal representation in government? What about CEOs? We always hear that there are not enough woman CEOs. If 50% claimed to identify as women, could we then say that the glass ceiling has been smashed?

        When you apply reductio ad absurdum logic to SJW POMO thought, it is shown to be the bullshit that it is.

        1. Just to clear this up, while agree with you on the absurdities of the SJW position, do you ultimately accept the gender identity of a person who has been diagnosed as transgendered and made attempts to genuinely live as the opposite of their birth sex, especially if they have had surgery, changed their name, etc.?

          I just see you bring up this issue constantly. Whatever fraction of 1% of the populace are trans, and then whatever fraction of that are genetic males who identify as women, just doesn’t seem germane compared to the violence and misogyny women face from non-trans perpetrators, like the Abrahamic religions.

          1. Oh, certainly. If a person has actually transitioned as you describe, then I accept that. Furthermore, I think they should be able to have their ID changed, which would definitively solve the matter of things such as bathroom rights, etc., for them.
            (My understanding is that, unfortunately, this is not possible in some jurisdictions.)

        2. Very clever. I am immediately recommending this to my male writer friends so that they can be eligible for the Orange Prize. Too bad it wouldn’t work for Muslim woman who’d claim to be men.

  3. The sad part is the poster can be taken as a joke like the cartoon or the cartoon can be taken as real proposal like the poster – works either way.

    1. There’s an annual conference about the advancement of women’s rights within Saudi Arabia. No woman has ever even been allowed to attend, let alone speak.

  4. Love it! Only one tiny nit to pick: Orthodox Jews observe separation of the sexes only for prayer and dancing (women don’t dance where men can see). It’s not perfect, but it sure ain’t sharia!

      1. We (you and I) are describing the ultra orthodox, by the way, and not the modern orthodox. I’m not even sure whether all the ultra orthodox observe that plane thing. I don’t recall it, but I haven’t been on a plane for some years, now.

        1. “modern orthodox” – almost an anagram for oxymoron – if you use the linguistic equivalent of sophisticated theology.

          1. Actually, no. The orthodox movement, as known today, is relatively recent in Jewish history, and the reform movement much newer, and the reconstructionist movement much, much newer, and the openly secular Jewish movement newest. The conservative Jews, actually middle of the road and not at all like American political conservatives, is the oldest, as I understand it. And I grew up in it.

          2. The modern orthodox are more ordinary in dress, blending in better in public, though they do wear yarmulkes (kippot). That sector moved from the right back toward center. The conseradox moved from the center just a little to the right, so the two outwardly seem similar but have underlying differences in perspective. The orthodox view ritual more as requirement, the conservative more as tradition. Even the reform movement is going back to wearing yarmulkes in the synagogue, reaching for harmless yet symbolic tradition to help feel united.

        2. In standard Jesus & Mo cartoons, Jesus represents a somewhat evangelical extremist version of Jesus. Mo represents a somewhat extremist version of Mohammed. So I think the strip works and is entirely reasonable and consistent in having Moses give voice to an ultra orthodox position of Judaism. IOW, I don’t see much to your nit.

    2. So, if we are into nitpicking, what makes you assume that Moses was a Jew? On the assumption that he really existed (unlikely btw), Judaism post dates him by hundreds of years.

  5. That poster was unintentionally funny – it reminded me of the famous picture of the (all male) audience at the Saudi Womens Conference.
    That said, there are plenty of women who are Muslim and feminist – both the secular and the Niqab-clad religious variety.

    1. Or the U.S. senate hearing from a couple years ago about abortion. Guess the gender balance of speakers at that event!

    1. Perhaps this would be a good time to review the difference between ad hominems and insults, at least as traditionally understood. 😉

      “He’s an idiot.” is just an insult.

      “He’s an idiot, so ignore that argument of his.” is an ad hominem. (And an insult.)

    2. I just watched the debate, which was posted by the guy who was against the proposition that Muslim women need feminism. I don’t even know where to start.

      Did you know, for example, that it was Western feminism that caused the Iraq war, and that’s why women are now suffering under ISIL?

      Women, apparently are just not capable of being equal – it’s obvious because an all male sports team “always” wins over an all female sports team. We in the West just don’t understand things like men needing to inherit more than women.

      Even the guy in support of the topic was going on about “allowing” women to do stuff like work and get an education.

      It was all pretty ghastly.

      1. I was a bit confused watching it because I skipped around. I initially thought the first speaker was against the proposition because he was couching everything in the teachings of islam. Then the other guy started talking… It was basically a debate to settle the question: “without men, are women useless or worthless?”.

    1. Far be it for me to actually support anything Trump says, but unlike most of the GOP he’s for a progressive tax system and increasing taxes on the 1%.

        1. Sure, depending on which crowd Trump is addressing. What he says about Israel in front of the general masses (TV audience) is pretty different from what he said at the AIPAC meeting, for example.
          As one pundit (PBS NewsHour, about 3 weeks ago) put it, he says anything and everything, so those who hear him can cherry pick and say, “See? He does agree with me!”

        2. Yes, seriously. Otoh, according to the CBO, his tax plan blows out the deficit by 21 trillion over ten years. Cruz’s and Sanders’ plans apparently do something similar. Of course, they all say the CBO is wrong.

          1. Do you realize if Trump wins the election it will be the first time in history that a billionaire moved into public housing vacated by a black family!

          3. Very good! 🙂 I think Al Sharpton has been saying something similar!

  9. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of these guys actually claims that “Islam is the correct feminism”, or the like. I’ve seen *that* done with many religious based sexisms in the past (including the separation of prayer in Orthodox Judaism, the lack of female priests in Catholicism, etc.)

    1. They both say Islam is perfect, but some people aren’t interpreting it correctly because of their culture.

  10. It’s unfortunate that the debate didn’t get exposure before it took place. It’s the epitome of tone deaf speech that should not only be allowed to take place, but publicized to show how ridiculous the concept is.

  13. Women aren’t magic, and don’t have access to special knowledge applicable to equal rights. Indeed, one of the toxic problems with feminism is how feminists treat men (shut up and listen).

    The reality is, it depends. Men can be great feminists and women can be misogynist.

    But also, men do not grow up as women. They don’t have the same experiences. They do not have the same biology. That all counts and cannot be handwaved away.

    Men should absolutely not be told to ‘shut up and listen’ just because they are not women. Their opinions *are* valuable. But also, women should not be prevented from telling their own stories (as is often the case in Islamic nations) because the presumption is that ‘men know what’s best for women’

    As a woman I can fight for men’s rights regarding laws that are unfair to men, but men, who actually do suffer from these bad laws, should not be silenced or ignored.

    1. Excellent points, and that was really the whole problem here. It was men deciding what it was OK for women to do because they couldn’t be allowed to decide for themselves.

      One of the speakers was saying what a waste it was that there are so many highly educated women in Saudi Arabia, but most weren’t being allowed to work, and he thought men should allow them to work. The other said educating an intelligent woman was never a waste, and he didn’t see what the big deal was. Which got a lot of cheers.

      In some ways I can sort of see it. My father didn’t think women needed an education because they were only going to get married and have children. If I was brought up in a society where that attitude was the norm, I’d have been pleased to at least be “allowed” to get an education.

      1. I think that the concept of ‘lived experience’ matters, but only up to a point.

        As with most decent concepts – trigger warnings, intent isn’t magic, and so on, ‘lived experience’ has been ruined by the SJWs, who take it way way way too far.

        Lived experience DOES matter. The experiences of people who suffer oppression DOES count. Their voices should not be ignored. If a Muslim woman is a victim of misogyny, I should not speak over her and tell her that, as a white western woman, my opinion matters more because reasons. However, we get into trouble when the SJW version of ‘lived experience’ is in use, which is “subjective experiences are magic and they trump all logical thought’, which is why we have SJWs all over universities claiming that anything and everything is now a microaggression.

        We must not silence or ignore people who are oppressed, but we are also under no obligation to take everything they say at face value with ZERO critical thought. Trust, but verify.

          1. Thank you Heather, that means a lot coming from a whiny rotter!

            And thanks for watching that ghastly video for us, I just don’t have the ‘spoons’ for that kind of misoygnist bs.

        2. You’re both right. I think Cindy summed it up excellently there.

          (Does that sound patronising? Wasn’t meant to. Am I being too PC in feeling the need to ask myself that question? Seeing as it’s Cindy and Heather, I’m probably safe. At least I hope so)

          cr

          1. Yes. Complimenting women is deeply sexist.

            Though, if you state that you identified as a woman for the duration of that comment, all will be forgiven!

            FYI, you’re not alone. I play online games, and I found myself hesitating to use the word ‘crazy’ in game chat, lest someone accuse me of ableism:( An irrational thought, yes, but the SJWs never let up, to the point that you start to second guess yourself. Every thought is potential wrongthink. /triggered

            RELATED: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/focusing-on-her-pleasure/

          2. Well, I actually identified as a disembodied non-gender-specific intelligence for the duration of the initial brief comment (one that thought ‘she’s right, that makes sense’).

            It was only in afterthought (afterthoughts doth make cowards of us all) that I wondered if it could come across wrongly.

            😉

            cr

  16. Islam and rape, punish the victim jail for having sex out of wedlock or if married punish for adultery.

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