More Republican madness in Iowa

October 26, 2015 • 11:30 am

If you really need more evidence that Republican politics in this country is becoming like the religion of so many of its adherents, driving them to madness and irrationality, read this article from Rachel Maddow’s blog giving the reasons why Iowa Republicans like Ben Carson, who’s now leading Donald Trump by 9 percentage points in a new state poll.

First, a summary of why the Republicans from that state like him. THIS IS NOT FROM THE ONION!:

CSC4or_VEAAsBmO

Had a good laugh (or facepalm) yet? Here are all the data:

If we combine “very attractive” and “mostly attractive” responses, these are Iowa Republicans’ positive feelings about Ben Carson:
1. “He is not a career politician”: 85%
2. “He has no experience in foreign policy”: 42%
3. “He was highly successful as a neurosurgeon”: 88%
4. “He has said the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is the worst thing since slavery”: 81%
5.  ”He has an inspirational personal story”: 85%
6. “He has raised questions about whether a Muslim should ever be president of the United States”: 73%
7. “He has said he would be guided by his faith in God”: 89%
8. “He has said that Hitler might not have been as successful if the people had been armed”: 77%
9. “He approaches issues with common sense”: 96%
10. “He has conducted research on tissue from aborted fetuses”: 31%
The blog notes that we should pay attention to items 4, 6, and 8.
It’s clear that it’s nearly impossible for either Carson or Trump to say something so manifestly stupid or offensive that it would hurt their standings among Republicans. That party is so desperate for a candidate that many adherents have become completely irrational. I wonder what the more liberal Republicans think of this madness.
h/t: Grania

83 thoughts on “More Republican madness in Iowa”

  1. “He approaches issues with common sense”

    This translates to “He’s as ignorant on issues as I am”.

    1. Yup. The good folks want a man of the people who makes judgements using his gut and the down home sense God gave him — just like they try to do. The high marks given to “inspirational personal story” show that they’re looking for someone they can admire and identify with: Jesus will take care of the rest. Vox Populi, Vox Dei.

      1. I never understood why anyone would want an Average Joe in the White House. I’d much rather have one of those “elitist snobs” with their ivory tower education and experience as the leader of the country.

          1. They’ll say the same doesn’t apply to Ben Carson because he’s a neurosurgeon. It’s very hard to persuade someone away from a decision they feel they’ve made for the best reasons using their best judgement.

          2. Is the, “dumbing down of America” so complete now that the masses, like ghetto kids who beat up another kid for getting good grades, have decided that they don’t want anyone smarter than they are to run the country? Scary, indeed…..

          3. Just a couple of thoughts that came to me reading your comment – are USians as a people getting insecure? Or does the idea of American exceptionalism mean that Sarah Palin is better than anything the rest of the world has to offer?

          4. More like indoctrination into a fictional paradigm to make it real. The Nazis did it, the Bolsheviks did it just about anyone can do it if they know how. Think of it, they are an open cult. They have all the parallel news outlets, humor outlets etc. Education and of course churches etc. And to them anything outside that bubble is suspect at best and Devilnazimuslim toxic horrors at worst. Many if not most or all of them are authoritarians both leaders and followers. They just love psychopaths as we are shown as being the best people out there. Though the package labeling is different, they have the same ingredients. Donald Trump is just one example. There are many more and not just in the Republicans.

        2. It makes some minor sense from a representational viewpoint: the President proposes the budget and negotiated treaties with foreign nations. We the people would like him/her to propose budgets/make treaties that best reflect our wishes. If he/she doesn’t know, doesn’t understand, or doesn’t care about our priorities because he/she grew up in circumstances that 99.9% of us don’t share, that may be a problem.

          But that’s in theory; in practice, I agree with you that having a very smart and well-educated president is much more important to good governance than whether they grew up in a family that drank high-end wine rather than budweiser.

    2. Imagine, just for a second, the idiocy of applying such sentiments to Carson’s own profession. “I just want a brain surgeon with common sense.” Exhibit A demonstrating the absurdity of this position is Carson himself. Clearly, his common sense is lacking, yet he’s a stellar surgeon. I’d want someone well trained and experienced in brain surgery operating on me. The same principle applies to the Presidency.

      1. He is a fine example of the type of person they want in their new empire. One that is a real live neuro surgeon yet knows the mythology they believe backwards and forwards from way back. (It means he lied on his tests when the gave the required answer yet thought it false) no imagine a place where those are the only and right answers. I know, it sickens me too.

      2. I just a brain surgeon with faith. Clearly, if he is a successful brain surgeon he does not use faith. The Christian conservatives who think otherwise are deluded.

        1. I think the real question here is does Carson have enough faith to perform brain surgery on a fundamentalist in such a way that changes her brain chemistry so that she embraces reason and frames arguments against Carson’s faith in a way that also makes him change his mind?

          Then we can say, “We haz a miracle!”

  2. It’s Iowa. They have been on the extreme edge and way out of the mainstream ever since I can remember.

    1. I think you have to add republican to that comment about extreme edge. Would hate to think you painted 100% of us with the moron brush.

      Actually, in the Eastern half of the state, they have always been more democrat than republican, although that has changed some. I have to admit, Iowa is looking more like Alabama all the time but we hope this is a phase they are going through, similar to a two year old.

      1. I did mean Republicans.

        (I had to add in my name and email to do this comment. First time for me)

  4. 10. “He has conducted research on tissue from aborted fetuses”: 31%

    Errr, is that a typo from the original article (the picture link just came through as “CSC4or_VEAAsBmO” here? Geographical limitations?) or did the sample group seriously misunderstand a question? Or are the statements of the presidential candidate really that bizarre?
    I would have thought that conducting research on aborted foetuses was a bit of a red-flag issue for a lot of the right wingers of America. Probably (well, maybe) worse than admitting to eating them.
    Shaping up to be an entertaining election campaign. I’ll pass on the popcorn, but I think some hot fresh crumpet (dripping, with butter) and a nice cup of tea would be about right.

      1. Too much antics ; I’m not sure if single-malt or functioning-liver would be the limiting variable.

      1. So, Carson is deranged ; his supporters are deranged, or both?
        Both I would suspect. This is not good for anyone concerned.

        1. Whether they’re deranged is probably a matter of opinion. I’d certainly opine they’re lacking in judgement. Unfortunately, they probably all think they have a clarity of vision the rest of us lack. Who was is who wrote about the confidence of the ignorant?

          1. Throwing around such psychological terms, and some not, really doesn’t help things in the long or short run. They say the same about us.
            So it is awash despite facts to the contrary.
            If they are really moral, ethical people they will over look the atrocities that are in their religion. Though I wonder how many want to be the Christian version of Saudi Arabia? I shudder to think how many. [It certainly has rubbed off on Israel, or is that the other way around? Either way is bad bad bad. And the US is an empire in all but name and with what few stops we still retain from our damaged and decaying Republic being undermined for some time.]

  5. Most surprising: 31% view “He has conducted research on tissue from aborted fetuses” as positive.

    Does that mean 31% of Republicans polled have poor English comprehension skills, or do a surprisingly high percentage of conservatives hold a positive view of a fairly controversial area of research? Obviously it’s going to be a bit of both, but I’m curious as to where the majority of those 31% fall on the foetus-tissue research issue.

    1. This just shows you what a great candidate Carson is: He could EAT aborted babies, and they’d still love him in Iowa.

      1. 🙂

        Yep, probably about half the 31% probably approved him with no thought at all.

        The other half probably interpreted the question to mean “He has Googled (= ‘research’) for horror-stories about aborted foetuses” and ticked the box accordingly.

        cr

    2. There’s also another possibility: the people answering the poll think Carson’s done research ABOUT the ‘horror’ of tissue from aborted fetuses, bringing it all out into the open in a daring public expose.

      Of course, that might fall under “poor English comprehension skills.”

      1. Yes, I think that’s the most likely explanation. What they read was:

        “He has **+~**# ##**+~*+##### §”??##*+*# ##*+ aborted fetuses”

  6. If this guy won the majority of primaries, could the RNC still nominate someone else? I bet the RNC is freaking out since they know BC would be trounced in a general election.

    It is interesting to watch the Republican party become dismantled and disgraced from the inside, and every year, their nominees seem to be more extreme and delusional. Iowa Republicans are the epitome of low-information voters, following their delusional candidate down the drain.

    1. Wouldn’t put to much stake in these results from Iowa. First reason is the survey says it is on likely GOP Caucus attendees. That would be the craziest of the crazy. These folks spend a lot of time locked in churches and don’t fit in well with the general public. Also note that the entire population of rural, white Iowa is less than one percent of the total population. Many of them would not be able to cross a busy street without assistance.

        1. I’m not sure how that r got in there? since I have to fill the name and email on every comment I may have clicked it in there by mistake. Pain in the butt – wish this thing were fixed.

    2. I have exactly zero confidence that “BC would be trounced in a general election.” Bush Jr got into the Whitehouse two times. Yes, one time the SC helped place him there. But if it hadn’t been a near tie in the first place the SCs judgement would never have come into play.

      Not to mention that John “Bomb, Bomb Iran” McCain and Sarah freaking Palin came very close to making it into the Whitehouse, and that was after the country was already reeling from two terms of Bush Jr plus the largest campaign effort in US history.

      Even if Carson ends up falling behind by the time the primaries arrive none of the other republicans running are significantly better. Shit, Donald Trump would probably be the least bad of the current bunch. I will be extremely relieved if the Democrats manage to hold onto the Whitehouse, but until that actually happens I don’t think we can discount a republican nominee merely because they are too crazy or moronic. Recent history has shown that there is no such thing. Heck, almost certainly past history also. I’m sure this isn’t anything new in human history.

      1. Agreed. The country doesn’t really need better candidates, it needs a better electorate, which seems to be getting dumber by the minute.
        These trends all lead to a rise in the level of unpredictability, and I would be dismayed, but not surprised, if the country elected someone who is a young-Earth creationist and who rejects several whole fields of science because they to not comport with his 7th-Day Adventist nonsense.

  7. I’ve visited Council Bluffs, Iowa several times on business (one of my former employer’s data centers was located there). You can’t drive more than a half mile without seeing a church, billboard, or other sign proclaiming G*d’s message. Faith addled doesn’t begin to describe the residents.

    1. I used to live across the river in Omaha. We always lovingly called Council Bluffs “Counciltucky.”

      1. Hey, if you think there are lots of churches in the Bluffs, try counting them in Omaha.

  8. Professor Coyne makes this statement: “I wonder what the more liberal Republicans think of this madness.” I think it would be more accurate to substitute “less conservative” for “liberal.” Liberal Republicans that existed in the 1960s and 1970s are long gone. There are very few Republicans that can even be called moderate by any objective standard, particularly on the federal level. The coup against John Boehner in the House of Representatives illustrates the hold of the far-right loons on the party, even though most Republicans are archly conservative, but not crazy right conservatives. The media, in its never ending attempt for “balance” characterizes arch conservatives as moderate. It’s an Orwellian use of the language. Here’s an interesting take on the media by Paul Rosenberg, writing in Salon.

    http://www.salon.com/2015/10/24/lets_call_them_all_lunatics_fearful_balanced_journalists_let_wingnuts_run_wild/

    1. I did not take time to read the whole article but there was no need. First picture/face I saw there was Steve King. If you stack up the whole bunch of lunatics in the party, that guy will be at the front of the line. Iowans continue to elect that guy and he is certifiable.

  9. It’s interesting. From this side of the pond, the Republicans seem to have gone collectively insane with their choice of candidates.

    Whereas here it’s the left wing party that seems to have gone insane. So traumatised are they by their recent election defeat that they’ve elected a leadership so far to the left of the mainstream that even most Labour MPs think they have no chance of winning the next election.

  11. They are looking for a savior, not a president. And Carson, to them, looks like the “chosen one.”

  12. My mom is a conservative, and there’s just no talking sense into her. Once a person decides that they are conservative, tribalism takes over causing a kind of cognitive dissonance that blocks and distorts information.

    At some point intellectualism itself becomes a suspicious enemy and a pride in ignorance forms. It’s both interesting and disheartening to have someone so close to you caught in this tribal partisan trap.

    2. I think the key to understanding this kind of conservatism is to recognize that the dissonance and distortion comes from having reached a threshold of fear. Fear stoked by Faux News and talk radio. The rational faculties have shut down and a reflexive rigidity takes over. All they have is resistance to any complex idea. Only an uncontrolled emotional reaction is available to them when they’ve reached that state. You have to wait ’till they have moved through it and found a more stable environment, at which point they will return to reflective thought.

  13. This reminds me of what I saw at a McCain rally in Iowa (October, 2008). Note: this was at the start; McCain had yet to make his entrance.

    I bit my tongue hard…I was trying very hard not to laugh out loud as I heard this:
    “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g0d3_KE5js”

  14. 4 & 8 are by far and way the most disconcerting.
    As for #5, Ben Carson’s story really IS inspirational, but his views still give me more perspiration than inspiration.

    Reza Aslan has said that Sam Harris is a great neuroscientist, but lacks training to say anything about religion. I’m waiting for him to discount #6 on similar grounds.

    Re” “That party is so desperate for a candidate that many adherents have become completely irrational.” I think cause and effect here may also (or even moreso) go the other way.
    I think it is around the year 2000 that the Republican Party morphed into a National Lampoon parody of itself.

  15. I want to get one of Amorphia Apparel’s Tea Party shirts (“Obama was born in the darkest depths of Mordor. That’s why I’m voting Tea Party”), but I’m afraid that people would take the shirt seriously or think that’s what I really believed (or even share that belief!). This poll is evidence that my fear was not without base.

  17. I admit to laughing but am aware of how serious a problem this is. I am not an American, but this problem has consequences well beyond the borders of the USA. Maybe you should build walls, to keep things in.

  18. I think that the Venn Diagram of the two sets:

    1. Candidates that can be elected in the GOP primaries

    2. Candidates that can be elected to the US Presidency in the general election

    … no longer has an intersection.

    The tea baggers are ensuring permanent also-ran status for the GOP (at the national level).

    And I’m enjoying every minute of it.

  19. I’m curious how Republicans in general feel about Carson’s race, and if he’ll be subject to the same vitriol that Obama has gotten since he took office.

  20. > “He has said that Hitler might not have been as successful if the people had been armed”

    In answer I’ll reproduce this famous table by Emil Gumbel, counting political murders in Germany from 1918 to 1922 – that’s before Hitler began to play any role in German-wide politics or even wrote Mein Kampf.

    http://www.projektwerkstatt.de/antirepression/justiz/strafen_rechts_links_1919bis22.gif

    The important part are the first two lines: 354 murders committed by right-wingers, 326 of which went unpunished; 22 murders committed by left-wingers, of which 4 went unpunished.

    In summary, Hitler came to power on a substrate of right-wing violence, emanating from – armed people, mostly royalist ex-soldiers.

    1. Well, you could argue that the problem was that left-wingers and jews weren’t armed.

      And of course you could also argue that the USA isn’t remotely the same as post-1918 Germany.

    2. It is also quite a leap to say that a minority of German citizens armed with small arms would have stopped the Nazis. In 1940, the French army with about three million men under arms only lasted six weeks.

      There were also very active armed resistance movements in most of the countries occupied by Germany during the Second World War. While they certainly hurt the German war effort, certainly none of them could be said to have stopped the Nazis.

      It seems to me like Carson is just making stuff up.

  21. “You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.

    You know… morons.”

    The Waco Kid.

    1. Do you yourself, of that of the Waco Kid’s script then, believe this statement of his to be true ?

      Blue

      1. … … the Kid o’the Texans’ Waco, o’course, w no morons there, say, o’the Seige – variety, not ?

        as of “On August 5, 1989, Howell released the “New Light” audio tape, in which he stated he had been told by God to procreate with the women in the group to establish a “House of David” of his “special people”. This involved separating married couples in the group and agreeing that only he could have sexual relations with the wives, while the men should observe celibacy.

        He also claimed that God had told him to start building an “Army for God” to prepare for the end of days and a salvation for his followers. Howell filed a petition in the Supreme Court of California on May 15, 1990 to legally change his name “for publicity and business purposes” to David Koresh; on August 28, he was granted the petition. Many of the members of the group had been involved with the Davidians for [ … … ] a few generations.”

        … … but no morons there, o’course ?

        found at http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

        Blue

  22. Item #7 is the most irrational and should disqualify anyone for president that makes this statement.

  25. I’m a feriner, as Bush would say, so could someone tell me if the Republican Party has anyone who would make a decent president (not necessarily any of the declared candidates). They surely cannot all be idiots.

  26. Neither Trump nor Carson will be the Republican nominee. The Republican party establishment — which has a lot of soft power to control the nomination outcome, as well as a fair amount of hard power to control the delegate count directly — will not stand for it.

    The Party establishment is interested in two things: a candidate’s electability and his commitment, if elected, to enact the GOP agenda. Neither Carson nor Trump fits that bill, and the Party isn’t about to turn the reins over to amateurs anyway. (Hell, I doubt Carson or Trump, if put on the spot, could give a coherent account of the Republican party legislative agenda.)

    In every presidential contest going back to Bush I in 1988, the candidate favored by the Party establishment has won the Republican nomination. (With the exception of W in 2000, every contested GOP nomination going back to Reagan in ’80 has gone to the top also-ran from the previous nomination cycle.)

    As far as I can tell, between the two of them, Trump and Carson haven’t got a single endorsement from a Republican Party establishment figure. (Compare the endorsements Hillary has thus far racked up from the Democratic party establishment.) Republicans up for reelection, especially those in a contested jurisdiction, have no interest in running on a ticket headed up by Carson or Trump. Endorsements from such party regulars can carry a lot of weight with the local electorate during the primaries.

    The GOP establishment has hesitated to bring the hammer down on Trump and Carson for a couple reasons: First, notwithstanding its size, the Republican field doesn’t contain a true Party-establishment favorite. (Jeb! would be the guy in other circumstances, but he’s been hampered by Bush fatigue, by his brother’s failed legacy, and by his own lackluster performance.)

    Second, the Party establishment doesn’t want to give Trump any justification to stage a third-party run. It wants to ensure the public perception of fairness — and to trap Trump from within until it’s too late for him to make a third-party run. Look for the Party establishment to start slamming doors shut on Trump and Carson early in the primary season.

    1. Sounds pretty reasonable and in normal times all that is needed is to give out the name of that mystery candidate who will be moved forward and accept the nomination. However, these are no longer normal times in the crazy party and it is difficult see when are the king makers going to step up and bring sanity to this. I do not see Carson holding up as they move to the southern primaries, and you won’t hear any in the media saying that out loud. They also are not likely to be nuts about Trump down dixie way either. So it just might be that help from the GOP establishment won’t even be necessary.

      1. I suspect that Trump and Carson will self-destruct once there’re more than rightwing activists and political junkies paying attention to the race. I also suspect that one of the GOP establishment’s tacit concerns is that there’s a segment of its base — the segment they used to fear might be siphoned off by a David Duke third-party run — that will not vote for a black man. They won’t vote for Hillary or Bernie either, of course. Just stay at home (or go ‘gator huntin’) on election day. The last thing the GOP wants is to put any of its ordinarily solid-red states in play due to low voter turn-out.

    2. I assume this party establishment consists mostly of elected officials. If so, almost every one of these officials is vulnerable to a challenge from the right. Which means that the party establishment can try to rob the Tea Party favorite of the nomination as a group, but they have to expect it could well backfire on anyone whose name is tied to the coup.

      1. The Party establishment includes, among others, elected Republican officeholders and past officeholders, their staff and former staff, RNC members (past and present), some think-tank types, people who held appointments and staff positions in prior Republican administrations (some of whom anticipate doing the same in any future Republican administration), the traditional donor base (not the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson types, but the ones who have given to the Republican nominee in election after election, decade after decade, sometimes generation after generation), and the Party-machinery types (the people who can be counted on, election after election, to work for the Party nominee and to mobilize the ground troops to get out the vote during general election campaigns).

        As political neophytes, Carson and Trump have no loyalists; they have fans. They are in no position to wreak revenge upon the Party establishment (anymore than the fans of Herman Cain or Michele Bachmann could extract revenge after the last nomination cycle). The rank-and-file will fall in behind a new (more-traditional, though perhaps equally conservative) candidate.

        Moreover, much of what happens will occur behind the scenes, well out of the sight of the kind of people who show up for Trump or Carson campaign rallies today. Anyway, the Party establishment views this not so much as a “coup,” as a righting of the ship.

  27. Charles Pierce described the problems pretty accurately ten years ago in Greetings from Idiot America: w*w.charlespierce.net/32/articlePage. It is a long article, but (I think) well worth reading.

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