Charlie Hebdo suspects boxed in, swear to die as “martyrs”

January 9, 2015 • 5:29 am

Just two quick items from this morning’s news

1. The New York Times reports that both suspects have been located and surrounded in a town near Charles de Gaulle airport outside of Paris:

French security forces have surrounded a town northeast of Paris where the two suspects in Wednesday’s terrorist attack at the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo appear to be barricaded at a printing business in an office building with at least one hostage, the authorities said.

Earlier, the police said the suspects had stolen a car and exchanged automatic-weapons fire with the police.

2. And this just came in from my CNN email news feed:

The two suspects in the Charlie Hebdo attack spoke to police by phone and said they wanted to die as martyrs, French lawmaker Yves Albarello told a TV station.

Albarello is the local member of parliament for the district where a police operation is taking place.

I suspect that “dying as a martyr” involves not suicide, but a glorious death in a gun battle with police. Let’s hope they capture the suspects alive and that no police are killed during that operation. France has no death penalty, so I’d prefer to see these killers spend the rest of their young lives in jail than expire thinking they’re going to get those virgins in Paradise.

67 thoughts on “Charlie Hebdo suspects boxed in, swear to die as “martyrs””

  1. Are we sure that the virgins are all nubile? Might they not be old virgins? Might they be male virgins?? Bit of a chance they are taking…

      2. So what happens if a ‘muslim’ child dies? I am serious – what do they think? Can anyone tell us?

        I should point out that I think the idea of a muslim/christian etc child is as absurd as the idea of a Socialist/Conservative/Republican etc child.

      1. None of these guys are capable of a normal, healthy, fulfilling relationship with a woman. It’s quite sad really – explains the desire for the 72 virgins in some ways.

      2. ‘The women of paradise are unblemished, menstruation free, free of faeces, urine, phlegm, and children, because Allah has cleaned them of all impure and foul things.’

        Well I agree kids can be pretty foul, specially other peoples’ kids.

        Technically speaking the Mullah is correct – the women of paradise are free of that stuff. They’re also free of everything else too, since they don’t exist.

        Anyway, bugger virgins (no not literally!), I’d rather have women who, like, know what to do…

    1. That’s absurd, and it prevents them from showing real news like the Charlie Hebdo or Jyllands-Posten cartoons. I suspect that there is no such stricture about showing cartoons mocking Jesus or Moses.

  4. To hell with the suspects, let’s hope nobody else gets killed.

    (Umm, yes, I would prefer they take the suspects alive, for some value of ‘alive’, but on a scale of 1-10 their welfare ranks as .001 compared with anybody else involved…)

    1. I would prefer they take the suspects alive, for some value of ‘alive’

      My feelings exactly. I certainly don’t want to do them the favor of giving them the easy way out. Aside from that, I am completely indifferent about what happens to them.

      Let’s just hope that nobody else gets hurt.

      1. I think it would have made a difference if they had been taken alive. They were determined to die, that’s for sure. Being taken alive and being held accountable in court would have been the worst possible humiliation for them.

  5. I will admit that in that Taliban school massacre I felt a degree of frustration that there isn’t a Hell those suicide gunmen could be sent to…

  6. France 24 are reporting another shooting in a Kosher Supermarket in Paris. It’s believed it is the same suspect that killed the policewoman yesterday. This is also a hostage situation.

    1. And that gunman has reportedly said he’s keeping his hostages until the situation with the other 2 hostage takers ends.

  7. I really hope they get them alive too, could they gas them or something to tranquillise them? Oh please oh please oh please.
    I would like them to fully repent and regret their actions and turn into Majid Nawaaz- type anti-fundamentalist charcters…sigh, if only.

    1. One can dream.

      I, too, hope for live capture. And life without parole seems appropriate to me.

  8. The gunmen probably figure (correctly) that the longer they hold on and remain in the news, the more followers they will inspire.
    Main stream news media will present the murders as an attack on themselves while cowardly and self-servingly (for they are sponsored by Mid-East oil interests) refusing to reproduce the Charlie Hebdo essays or say anything that might be considered offensive to faith. CNN, NBC, Fox and the broadcast media in general are a significant part of the problem.

    1. Not wanting to be a Fox apologist, but they have shown the “offending” cover – I was watching when they did.

      1. It is shameful that mainstream news operations leave it to Fox to set the standard of journalistic honesty.

        I can’t believe I just wrote those words.

        1. Yes, well, several presenters and commentators have also managed to pin the blame entirely on Obama, so it’s not all good. But at least there’s no one taking the “not Islam” line that many on MSNBC are taking.

        2. Your fingers probably feel dirty having typed them. You need to go wash them now!

  9. I am opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons but the strongest emotional one is that it allows monsters to get off relatively unscathed.
    It still pisses me off that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people then skipped with only a couple of years in jail.

    1. For some weird reason I read ‘Anders Behring Breivik’ when you said that. Who, by the way, is apparently NOT enjoying his life in solitary confinement. (And it probably will be ‘life’. Although 21 years is the maximum sentence under Norwegian law, it can be extended for 5-year periods if the prisoner is considered to still be a danger to society. Anyone care to give odds on whether Breivik will ever get out?)

      1. If I were the sentencing judge and could choose any sentence I would have the victims families make videos about the lives of the innocents taken and what was taken from those who lost them.
        Then I would have them played on big screen TVs in the cell so that he could never escape seeing what he did.
        Dick Cheney’s would run for half a million years. If only we could keep him alive that long.

        1. I think Cheney could be fitted with a black helmet which would sustain him like a pale, gelatinous brain in a bottle for about 250 years. Enough suffering?

        2. Well, my sentence on Breivik would be solitary confinement in one cell (not three rooms) with NO TV, reading matter or anything else, no contact with the outside world, nothing. And let him go slowly insane all by himself.

          Incidentally, I’m also opposed to the death penalty, primarily because sooner or later you end up executing an innocent man by mistake – which is (IMO) almost the worst crime of which any system of government is capable. Obviously this isn’t a contingency in a case like Breivik’s where identity is certain.

          1. By some definitions, solitary confinement with no amenities would be considered torture. If you agree that there’s no libertarian free will, a terrorist is not morally responsible. How could that treatment be justified?

          2. How can any sentence be justified on the grounds you state?

            Nevertheless, people are normally punished for their crimes. And Breivik’s was spectacularly evil. Therefore he deserves something far more severe than a common-or-garden murderer.

          3. I’m not sure I agree. Your “deserves” sounds like the retributive idea of justice. If you assume Breivik could not do differently given his physical structure and environmental influences, confinement for a very long time might be appropriate, without total isolation or sensory deprivation. The mental suffering of such treatment is just as real as waterboarding.

          4. What he “deserves” is irrelevant.

            What matters is protection of other people from crimes like his. That means lock him up for a very long time. To some extent it means publicize the consequences to other potential criminals will, possibly, be deterred. Torturing him serves no purpose but to dehumanize the rest of us, particularly those performing the torture.

          5. ” If you agree that there’s no libertarian free will, a terrorist is not morally responsible. How could that treatment be justified?”

            About the same way your proposed treatment of Dick Cheney (with which, by the way, I heartily concur) could be justified…

          7. From the sound of it he was quite enjoying his insanity (though not his imprisonment). I would make it all un-enjoyable for him. Not ‘la-la I’m the great saviour of white civilisation’ insanity, but ‘let-me-out-of-here-i-can’t-stand-it-any-more’ insanity.

            (Though the court found that he was technically sane)

          8. Again, I would argue there is not really a difference between sane and insane re moral responsibility. Either way, the fellow could not have done differently without contracausal free will.

    1. Yes, along with these French language publications:

      Le Devoir.
      Le Journal de Montréal.
      Le Journal de Québec.
      24 Heures.
      La Presse.
      Le Soleil.
      Le Quotidien.
      Le Droit.
      La Tribune.
      La Voix de l’Est.
      Le Nouveliste
      Métro.

        1. The National (English) have published the photos as well. I think it’s just English CBC. English Canadians are bad ass too 🙂

        2. Yes but it’s not due to language so much as history. The Quebecers were finally able to throw off centuries of intellectual imprisonment by the Catholic Church and since that happened so recently there are many who still recall the struggle and what it was about. Quebec is not the last bastion of liberal values in Canada but it is certainly the largest and strongest.

  11. “I suspect that “dying as a martyr” involves not suicide, but a glorious death in a gun battle with police.”

    I would guess that Islam proscribes suicide, just like Xianity. Put yourself in a suicidal situation where you can kill others — martyrdom and paradise (pair o’dice). Kill yourself by any other means — hell.

    Lead those sheep to slaughter Mo!

  12. I spoke to Jehova, God and Alla this morning. I asked the three deities if 2 senseless criminals who planned and committed multiple murders could possibly become martyrs. They all shook their wise bald heads and said ‘no’ in modern English. God said briefly, “If you want to be a martyr, first you have to become a Christian, and dedicate your life to love”, and then Jehova said, “and to become a Christian, first you have to become a Jew because God’s son came only to save the Jews, and it will cost yur $100 for the paperwork”. Alla said, “I am the new kid on the block so I will defer to them, besides, these terrorist terds will have to go to hell for what they’ve done. They can never be granted the status of martyrdom”. Then an angel appeared out of nowhere and I was quite startled. He asked “will that be all? These deities are very busy trying to control the universe, so you must be quick!”. I said, “yes that’s all”, but one question for you, “are you for real? did any of this happen?”. He responded, “no, you can rest assured it is only your active imagination interpreting recent events, trying to come to terms with widespread confusion regarding who is eligible to be a martyr. These images and conversations exist soley within your mind.” “OK, Thanks, I just wanted to be sure.” I said, and walked off into the distance getting smaller and smaller the further away I went, until I was too small for the naked eye to see (the end).

  13. When Islamists express a wish to die as martyrs in a gun battle with police, we should make sure that, IF they manage to provoke a shooting, they will be shot by a woman. I understand that this is so shameful it completely removes any hope they have of paradise. This seems to be a belief we could usefully pander to.

    1. It’s one the Peshmerga (Kurdish army) are taking advantage of in Iraq and Syria. Their female soldiers are doing a great job.

      1. I just Googled the Kurds. While religiously diverse, most of them are Muslim. Which I guess demonstrates only that it’s misleading to assume that all Muslims are the same.

          1. Happens all over this discussion, explicitly or implicitly. Though not necessarily in this particular thread.

          3. Can’t be bothered dredging through past posts for examples for you to nitpick.

            It’s frequently implied in the ‘moderate muslims are enablers for the extremists’ comments, for just one example.

            I’m quite happy to leave it to the commentariat here to recall for themselves whether they’ve seen it.

            But I am pleased to see that you presumably disagree with lumping all Muslims together.

            I’m off to bed.

          4. I’m (or others are) accused of claiming “>i?all over this discussion” that all Muslims are the same. And you can’t be bothered to point to any actual examples of this. Despite the presumed easy discovery there-of.

            I don’t think there is anyone on this page who has made such a stupid claim. If it is true then it is worth demonstrating. Don’t wimp out now.

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