My talk at ASU last night (poster below) was live-streamed, so although there was an overflow crowd, lot of other people apparently watched it on the livestream feed.
I thought it went well, and, surprisingly, there was virtually no hostility from the audience, either in their reactions when I said things like “we must loosen the hold of religion on the American mind” or during the Q&A period. No creationists came forth, either.
The book-signing, during which I had to draw many cats (they sold out of books, and virtually everyone knew the secret phrase, “Felis sylvestris catus“), also was heartening. Lots of people confessed to me that they were also nonbelievers but couldn’t “come out” in a place like North Carolina for fear of alienating their family, friends, or coworkers. If you were one of them, thanks for sharing, and if at some point you feel like going more public, I’d urge you to do so. I see the growth of atheism like a nuclear chain reaction: for every person who goes public, that inspires several others to do likewise. What I do know is that there are lot of closet atheists in Boone!
But reaction wasn’t uniformly positive. If you look on the ASU Facebook page, you’ll find an announcement of my talk with, as of 10 a.m. today, 72 comments. (A faculty member alerted me to this.)
This is what we’re up against, and I suspect most of these folks are either students at or alums of ASU. Note that all of these were posted before my talk!
And then there were comments bespeaking the worst sort of antintellectualism:
Don’t worry, Ms. Cobb, I’m leaving today. And, fortunately, the people I met at ASU were, unlike you, lovely and hospitable!
Yes, Mr. Long, that’s the way to oppose an idea: remark on the speaker’s appearance. Stay classy! But I have news for you: I resemble a monkey because I am closely related to them—and so are you. And, whether or not you want to believe it, both you and I are apes. Yes, apes!
There are of course positive comments on the thread, but so far not much reaction to the talk itself, which should be interesting. I welcome pushback because, as General George Patton said in the opening speech of the eponymous movie, “Every true American loves the sting of battle.” I prefer lecturing to an audience that includes some opponents!
Thanks very much to the friendly students and faculty of ASU I met, who ply their trade in one of the most beautiful locations in the U.S., and especially to Dr. Howie Neufeld, who took a lot of time out of his busy schedule to sponsor me and shepherd me around.
Sweet! Well done sir! In African apehood solidarity!
I’d only scrolled as far as the image of that comment when I felt compelled (I have no free will) to go to the Facebook page to add, “We ALL resemble monkeys — because we evolved from a common ancestor that lived tens of millions of years ago.”
And then I scrolled further …
Perhaps, “And you sir, resemble a FISH!” would’ve been wittier.
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Damn, don’t you hate missing out on putting a witty comment?
L’esprit de l’escalier — which is what I’m feeling now, seeing as how I’m about 12 hours late to this thread.
Fortunately, on the internet, it takes a long time to get to the bottom of the staircase.
The perfect phrase! I always learn something here!
Jerry, you fight the good fight. It often baffles my mind how some folks can actually tie their shoes in the morning, much less go to college. Not every person was created logically equal… thanks for trying to make a difference.
“tie their shoes”…naw, they have Velcro, instead of laces.
hahahaha… or slip ons 😉
Those chaps shoe their ties as well.
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Just amazing. That this level of willful stupidity would be so mainstream and acceptable. In a university!
As an alumnus of the other ASU — Arizona State University — and somebody who still lives in Tempe, I’d love to see you give a similar talk here.
I don’t have any connections in the biology department…but I bet Lawrence Krauss would be more than happy to put you in touch with somebody.
And you’d get a most welcoming reception, too. Richard was here a few years ago and filled Gammage Auditorium, a huge Frank Lloyd Wright concert hall.
Cheers,
b&
Facebook posts are hilarious! I was wondering if anyone has had a run in with a creationist or faith head that has turned ugly? Especially you Dr. Coyne, do you have a particular memorable or maybe even scary example to share?
I once had someone cross post a lot of teaparty crazy, mostly stuff about how America was a perfect paradise before Obama and now its LITERATELY HELL.
LITERATELY HELL
Well, at least he made a difference. How did he manage to get all those kids and ex-kids that had been left behind to learn to read? That’s quite an achievement. If only he could do the same for spelling ability.
Also there’s one of my favourite t-shirt messages involved here.
Misuse Of
“Literally”
Makes Me
Figuratively
Insane
Could be a canny allusion to our president’s having written two best-selling memoirs (and to how well-read, and well-spoken, he is compared to his predecessor).
Looking after the talk:-
The most “Liked” comments in the ASU facebook page are all pro-evolution
Thanks for including the Facebook link to read more comments. I found a well mined Darwin quote I haven’t heard before. Maybe it’s just the pages I read but it seems like atheists and science fans own the internet. There is more love for you and science on that post. It’s really nice to see how quickly, and sometimes intelligently, science gets defended on the internet.
Also, it would be weird if you didn’t look like a monkey.
Well done Jerry, keep up the great work on all our (less well qualified) behalves 🙂
Most encouraging news, a great start of the day here in Kentucky (and on the edge of Appalachia), GOOD JOB and THANKS, Dr. Coyne!
Typical Appalachian comments. The Bible Belt is a mental illness.
Hey, now… I was born and raised (and still live) in North Carolina. We’re not all a lost cause.
One of my buddies from Seattle is from N Carolina. He only visits briefly once per year to visit his family: He says he has a limited tolerance for, “the Bubba Factor”.
I love that!
I’d call it a “psychological disorder” that has come about as a result of children being taught that certain lies are true.
Sometimes I think the only hope for the US is to federalize the school system, outlaw home and religion-tainted schooling, and teach the truth to young kids before their minds are warped. But I am well aware that a serious proposal to such ends would be met with an incredible uproar.
I was born and raised and educated in Alabama, and it was only by the hard work and persistence of people like Jerry and my local Univ. biology faculty that finally made me see reason. I think it’s easy for outsiders to see all of the South as a lost cause, but we aren’t, and I hope that many great scientists and outspoken atheists continue to pound away on folks down here. It’s worth the effort.
Off topic: Jerry, I believe today is Pete Seeger’s birthday. Thought it might merit a post from you if you have time. His influence on American banjo picking was large, if not quite as large as Mr. Scruggs’s.
It IS Pete’s birthday! 94 years old and going strong. What an inspirations that man is!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY PETE!
Thanks to Youtube posters, I’ve just recently discovered that a number of old classics I heard on the radio decades ago and could never track down since – almost forgotten they existed – were Pete Seeger.
(Youtube’s amazing for things like that, though obviously the coverage is rather random).
Welcome to the South. I used to live in NC so I have an understanding of the deeply rooted religious groupthink there. The kind of people who are likely to show up at your talks are atheists or at least people who are not so brainwashed by religion that they regard any challenge to their faith as offensive or scarily sacrilegious. So I’m not surprised that your audience was accepting of your talk, yet there were plenty of naysayers lurking in the social media. Keep up the good work!
I keep hoping that some skilled psychologist will come out with a book (or even a pamphlet) laying out effective strategies for breaking through the believers’ shells, to sow the seeds of doubt if nothing else.
Hola RFW . . . A couple of places to start that describe a basic approach are “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion” by Jon Haidt and “The Authoritarians” by Bob Altemeyer. Haidt is basically an evolutionary psychologist and Altemeyer is a social psychologist. Altemeyer’s book is available as a free PDF at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/. They helped put things in perspective for me and helped me understand how and why they behave the way they do and how to approach them . . . FWIW
I recommend Altemeyer’s book, it is fascinating and illuminating.
Heh. Yes it is . . . 🙂
Different strokes for different folks, with a bit of each for all.
That includes science education like WEIT, ridicule like Zombie Jesus, and impassioned wonder like Sagan.
And “out” atheists to serve as an example and to apply peer pressure and to offer support. And more….
b&
It’s hilarious to know that those people who commented so stupidly on the fb thread have no idea they are sexually mature baby chimps (paedomorphism), and they look exactly what they are, not much different than Jerry or any other human ape. However, they do seem to be lacking another expression of paedomorphism, that is, curiosity.
(If those folks read my comment, they probably will be insulted that I linked a word starting with paedo with them. :-))
So long as you don’t call them bibliophile, just ask Ray Comfort what an insult that is 😉
To me, the saddest part of most of these FaceBook comments is not that the people are so hostile (which is deplorable, but expected), nor that they don’t know much about biology (which is also kind of expected) nor that they don’t understand what science is(which is par for course for creationists). It’s that, for all their proclaimed Christian beliefs, they clearly don’t understand Christianity either. The house of straw that is their world is built on quicksand.
I think the Josh comment about the flat world was meant as a burn on the guy’s comment above who used the tired “you’re all fanatical zealots” argument.
That’s how I read it too.
Boone, NC, has 51 religious organizations, between churches and ministries, listed by Google. That means they can give at most 2652 anti-Darwin sermons a year. You’ve got them panicked.
As a fellow ape, I salute you for the work you do.
The world has a long way to go.Opening the minds of many people is quite a daunting task.Why do creationists insist evolution rejects their god? Evolution simply states that life evolves.The evidence and facts prove evolution.
Keep chipping away Jerry.Maybe some day?
“Why do creationists insist evolution rejects their god?”
Because these people figure they can’t have their god without their Bible, and a specific lens on the Bible at that.
They aren’t just theists, or even Christians. They’re Bibliolaters.
Not even that. They are “my-own-personal-interpretation-of-the-few-parts-of-the-bible-that-I-know-are-right-because-in-my-own-diseased-little-mind-I-am-the-ultimate-authority-on-truth” simpletons. Their minds are made up, and ain’t no one gonna bother them with the facts. They would be pathetic if they weren’t so dangerous.
Please pass me a banana! Of course the dunderheads didn’t show up at the event (or maybe were there & just kept silent), they wouldn’t dare risk exposing themselves in front of such an ignorant ape like JC. (Oops just noticed “JC”, maybe that’s the problem they have?)
The Facebook comments enrage me.
Why do the people with the tiniest minds so often have the biggest mouths?
Well, they have available the vacant space for big mouths…
Prof., I think you should say to these people – “Eating of the Tree of Knowledge will do you no harm now. That’s all been done and dusted a long time back, so why don’t you buy my book and share some knowledge.”
Only downside, you might get called a serpent rather than a monkey.
” . . . you might get called a serpent . . . .”
In Appalachia it would be “sarpent.”
In regard to Jon Holly Hussey.”You either believe in the bible or none of it.” .He should read the bible. It is full of bigotry, endorses slavery,killing babies,women are basically dirt,just to touch on a few points.Oh, and if he is your neighbor,don’t even try cutting your grass or working around your home.The bible says you shall be stoned for working on the sabbath!Amazing? No.Ignorant yes.
He did get one point correct though. Without Genesis and Sin there’s no point in Jesus. That’s the true reason so many christians are creationists, they know that if they accept evolution the logical next step is to reject christianity.
I fully disagree. You can believe that there was a ruler named David, and one named Solomon, and on and on, without believing in talking snakes or water-walking death-defying god-avatars.
Sadly, however, even the exploits of the kings of Israel described in the book fail to match the archaeologic evidence.
This has always bothered me, I do not understand the purpose of believing in only parts of the bible. I mean if its true then its true and you should believe all of it.
If your going to pick and choose what you want to believe would not simply making up your own rules or finding a book of rules where you like all the rules be better?
I have been told by christians that the bible is in essence a guide on how to live your life, basically a list of rules, if your only going to follow a small fraction of the rules, why bother?
It’s a way of maintaining your belief when common sense and a modicum of knowledge of how the world really works starts to make inroads into your faith.
Basically, it is your average intelligent person trying to revise and rationalize what constitutes “their” faith so that they can believe in it without being too embarrassed about its truth-claims.
Yep, my very cursory understanding is that when archaeologists started digging out there back in the ca. late 1800’s, they were surprised/disappointed only to find holes in the Holy accounts.
Is it possible to have the live stream re-played. I missed the first portion. I enjoyed the last 10 min only..
Kae
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I went to ASU’s Facebook page and read the comments . . . Actually, they weren’t as bad as I expected . . . I grew up in very rural eastern NC and now live in one of the reddest counties in the state. One has to choose one’s words very carefully when one is out among the Great Unwashed. Having said that, I temporarily lost my composure while reading the comments and got to the one that said: “This is a shame…what about a speaker on the Truth of Creationism? Equal time???” I had to reply . . . I invited him to sign me up. That I’d be more than happy to come challenge and debunk it for him . . .
So far, no takers . . . 🙂
P.S. Dr. Coyne, I hope I didn’t invade your turf . . . You hadn’t responded to the comment and I figured that you’d had enough of NC for a while, so I didn’t feel too badly about stepping up . . . 🙂
I read those FB posts with disgust, not because of what those people believe, but because of their blatant anti-intellectualism. Not to mention their fundamentally illogical viewpoint…If I don’t like it, it must not be true. And rude, terribly so. I’m a southerner and I ashamed of them, and my late (and religious) grandmother would tolerate none of that kind of talk. But that’s what religion does, it frequently provides a phony self-assurance which allows one to make incredibly stupid statements with a total lack of self-awareness.
To cite from the Buffalo Beast,
“Chuck Norris: Doesn’t understand evolution, despite access to mirrors.”
That was probably also meant as an insult about his appearance but really, it is true for all of us. Just look at a soccer player celebrating a goal in slow motion and tell me you don’t see a dominant ape beating its chest. Just look at a baby cuddling in their mothers arms and tell me you don’t see a monkey carrying its baby around. The similarities are so striking that it is ridiculous to deny them.
Hi Jerry ! Is a video available on Youtube? I checked yesterday…
Can’t wait…
I don’t know. There was some talk of that, but I’ll have to ask the folks at ASU what gives. If it goes up I’ll let people know.
I actually admire the honesty in Jon Hussey’s comment. He makes a great point that you don’t often hear coming from more liberal believers who accept evolution but still believe that Jesus died on the cross and ascended into heaven: If evolution is true, then there was no Adam and Eve and no original sin, therefore Jesus died on the cross for nothing and Christianity doesn’t make any sense. It exposes the utter poverty of the wishy-washy, liberal, anything goes Christinaity.
It was a pleasure to see Jerry in person at ASU. Many students present, of course, but I could hear some close to me who were obviously impressed with some of the evidence Jerry presented. Cool to witness the young minds putting it all together. I was surprised none of the religious spoke out during Q&A.
And, of course, I was able to get my copy of WEIT signed. I’ve had it for a few years, but now I have a cat picture w/ autograph addressed to my two young sons.
The level of ignorance in the Facebook comments is breathtaking.
Yup; largely WILLFUL ignorance at that. Truly stunning. And exhibited publicly with pride! To borrow from Vonnegut (and slightly paraphrase), the rational mind reels…
That’s a very good point Frank. At this stage, the evidence for evolution is available everywhere and accessible to anyone. Even if you have to read things multiple times to learn them, to fully understand them, it is almost criminal not to. So ignorance like that would have to be willful.
What rudeness! You don’t look like a monkey at all, although I do find you vaguely neotenous. Or maybe it’s just that you sometimes appear in photos with ice cream on your face and your hair is kind of perma-rumpled. In a good way! Either way, sometimes, at random intervals throughout the month, I occasionally think “I wonder if Dr. Coyne is easting enough these days? I feel like he might not be eating enough. Someone needs to make that guy a meatloaf.”
Listen to Maino, and don’t let the haters get you down!