For Holy Week we have more official policy of the Catholic Church, from the Catholic Catechism:
2353. Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
2396. Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
Now we all agree that sex with very young people is indeed immoral, and it’s recognized as such by laws in many places. But unmarried sex? That’s not a sin, but a great blessing. And granted, it’s doesn’t always have happy consequences, but neither does drinking wine—another great “blessing” of the world. The sexual conjunction of two human bodies can be one of the most pleasurable and fulfilling activities of our existence, and we can thank evolution for associating it with the orgasm, a evolved neurological reaction that, to many, is the acme of human pleasure.
The Catholic Church uses sex—or rather its absence—as a way to control people, to keep them in a constant state of guilt, and to keep them coming back to the church for absolution and penance. What better way to keep people in line than by grasping the levers of our most powerful psychological drive: sex. By not letting people be about their sex lives, and attempting to burden sex between consenting adults with all kinds of religious freight and guilt, the Catholic church is immoral.
Remember, Catholicism’s official policy remains that you can go to hell for having unmarried and unconfessed sex. The word “grave” is, of course, associated with mortal sin.
Some liberal church.
I think we’re always going to have love/hate relationship with our bodily pleasures, ie. sex, intoxicants, and rich foods. We crave these things because they stimulate certain bits of our neurology in powerful ways, but they also present significant hazards, depending on usage and circumstance. Contraception and antibiotics have done a lot reduce (though not eliminate) the medical hazards of sex, but it remains a minefield of potential emotional hazards. However, obfuscating that with a load of theology doesn’t help.
Yeah, but there’s a difference between hating the hazards of sex, and hating sex itself because you think there’s something wrong with it.
Of course the hazards are bad. But the act itself is wonderful. As long as there are people who say that it is evil (under any circumstances), it is necessary to keep proclaiming how wrong that is.
I don’t understand/agree with any of what you’ve written here Eamon
I don’t recognise it as true. You use “we” when maybe you should use “I”
I don’t have a “love/hate relationship” with my wants/desires/pleasures.
I think you’re talking about guilt, but I’m guessing
I mean “we” as in society: we’re always going to be trying to put rules around these things, which won’t quite work. Look at the silliness of liquor laws in various places — trying to keep a lid on things like public nuisance and alcoholism (because some individuals will always abuse these things), but without the excesses of Prohibition. Or the guilt people feel for falling off a diet.
Getting religious strictures out of the picture would help, but I don’t think it makes the whole problem magically disappear.
Potential abuse is not the reason why rules grow up around pleasures though. That is a modern way of looking at the issue, and even then that was originally rooted in religious mores and is only very recently informed by medical concerns.
In the past it may have in some way been a way of regulating competition for a resource; but most of all a way of the person(s) in power demonstrating their power & control over others in the group.
“Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.”
That’s rich, coming from the Catholic Church. Corruption of the young is one of their primary businesses.
Woo, 4 for 4 in the sins of the day. I like the interactive posts–keep ’em coming.
Weeell, here we go, 1st Corinthians 6, verses 9-10 (from King James hisself):
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind;
“Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Ah, yeeaaass, “fornication,” from the Latin “fornix,” for “vault.”
The first verse indicates some significant obsession with sex(ual activity of others).
If “the solitary vice” warrants mention in these verses, why not murder, owning slaves, beating slaves and wives, treating wives as chattel.
Of course, back then they did not know about testosterone, vasopressin and oxytocin; no idea that male fetuses had erections in the womb; no idea of X and Y chromosomes – they blamed women for not baring male children.
(Though in chickens [“Z” and “W” chromosomes?], the hen does determine the sex, is that correct?)
What does the omniscient Catholic hierarcy make of Onan’s coitus interruptus?
I think it would be more appropriate to trace the etymology to “fornax”, or “furnace”. Not much beats a hot, molten vagina.
Furnace + vault = hot box. You can both be right.
Heh.
Molten? Now that’s some poetic imagery.
Yes, voluptuous vaginal vagaries.
Fornix means archway; the archways of Roman construction such as aqueducts were a favourite hangout for prostitutes in ancient Rome. Fornicare is a verb meaning to frequent prostitutes.
So, for all the talk about architectural phallic symbols, there are far more vaginal ones!
Anyway, the original etymological discussion reminded me of this: http://www.hulu.com/watch/61320/saturday-night-live-shimmer-floor-wax
Islam and Catholicism happen to coincide on all these points.
As Jerry said, the whole point is to keep everyone (including those who don’t believe) on a short leash.
I have to say that this list of sins is a bit unfair to straight people. I’m trying to follow along and play Stupid Catholic Sins Bingo and I feel that not being gay is seriously hurting my chances of getting a “Bingo” early in the game. Sigh, clearly there are some advantages to being gay.
😉 Yes, there are. I like your attitude.
Even if you’re not gay, you can still choose to indulge in gay sex. Never forget that Woody Allen quote: “Being bisexual means you double your chances of getting lucky.”
A friend of mine described herself as “Bi-erotic and hetero-affectionate”. She and her husband indulged together in three- and foursomes with same-sex activity but emotionally remained firmly committed to each other (they also never played separately – only together).
Yeah. And according to the Catholic Church, that would be simultaneous homosexuality and fornication! (Did we already do adultery, ’cause it might count there, too?) They would stand a very good chance of getting a Bingo.
Good at least to know that homosexuals aren’t also fornicators. (I had tacitly assumed that they fell into that class too). So, while the unmarried are apparently SOL in regards to any sex it doesn’t say that those of us who are married can’t hook up with other married couples – so swinging is OK (or does that fall under chastity?)
It doesn’t matter. Anything you enjoy doing is probably a sin. Even married sex is a sin if it isn’t for the express purpose of making babies.
Here’s a flowchart to help Catholics decide…http://tinyurl.com/4yg4xl4
What’s the ‘Married more than three days’ thing? Do you have be married for three days before you can consummate the marriage? I never heard that one before.
You’ll have to read Professor Brundage’s book to find out. I knew James Brundage rather well – went to high school with his son & took a couple of his courses in college.
so the vasectomy was a bad thing?
The question of whether gay sex is fornication is like the question about whether a ham sandwich becomes less kosher if you add cheese.
. . . It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons Moreover,
. . . it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
. . . Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity . . .
Sex and lust and fornicating = grave = death.
Who knew that making love was such a high-wire activity?
I could certainly be misinterpeting that, they do love to compose their stuff to be as nebulous as possible, but that sounds a bit worrisome. Might this be the root of the catholic church’s attitude towards child molestation within their ranks?
As for fornication being a sin, there is no hope for me, I am going straight to hell. Also, who in their right mind would want to marry someone that they had so little, or shallow, experience with that they had never had sex? That is idiotic and a recipe for a failed marriage that is maintained only because god said so. Meanwhile the couple becomes more miserable with every passing year.
Well, I was lost at age twelve.
yeah, me too .. and then I KEPT diggin’
Immorality: the morals of someone who is having a better time.
and
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
H. L. Mencken
Inb4 Daniel posts something contrary.
It’s worth pointing out that a study in 2006 showed that 95% of people have extramarital sex at some point in their life. Presumably that would include many preachers and abstinence-only educators.
The worst part about hell is how crowded it is.
Perhaps you mean pre-marital, rather than extra-marital?
(subscribing)
Some people must really have low self-opinions (or just be intensely terrified) to allow a pack of elderly virgins (many of whom aren’t very good at staying that way) to lead them around by their bits. It never ceases to amaze me just how obsessed the Papacy is with stuff that’s none of its business (and not within its skillset).
I must concede, though, making gossiping about your private life to a priest mandatory was genius; really sets the tone for your relationship with the Church (fucked if it’s about your relationship with God – all you ever get to do is talk to his bouncers). The Vatican’s certainly got its chops down, being a “spiritual” empire and all and claiming middle-man status and absolute jurisdiction even after you die. If Catholicism was just a temporal, material empire but made the same ludicrous demands of its subjects, the natives would’ve looked at each other, said “fuck this for a game of horseshoes”, revolted and razed the Vatican half a millenium ago. But no, God’s Goombah threw in the ol’ eternal carrot/stick and bingo – frightened ignorant villagers have passed this ghastly voyeuristic blackmail on to their kids for 1500 years and counting.
Is it possible to have “lust” for ones spouse?
Also, I wonder if, in response to rational humans trying to resist the siren call of sex (hormones), those who have successfully resisted have gone extinct, and those remaining have that much stronger a sex drive?
Does the religioso think someone sinful because he has testosterone coursing through his veins? Verily, apparently sinfulness is to be attributed to some molecule composed of H,C,O, (N, P, S – what else)?
Does anyone know of someone trying to calculate the ballpark odds of any one of us “popping” into existence? (Dawkins has reflected on the unlikelihood qualitatively, on how lucky we are to be alive.) For, it seems that, with every succeeding generation of humans, the likelihood of any one of us “popping” into existence becomes less and less. Seems that’s a good thing to remember any time we have a major hang nail and are inclined to “whaaah!” about some rediculous personal inconvenience.
(This reflection is under the influence of Merlot.)
Re: “carnal union.” (If one is married is it “spiritual,” not “carnal,” union?) “Chili con carne.” “Carnivorous.” “Carnival.”
“Manha de Carnaval.” Meat. Flesh. Meat cleaver. The husband cleaves unto his wife. We’re not to eat of the “cloven” hoof. Is it possible for Protestant preachers to “lust” after their wives?
Give her a good flourish for me, young feller!
Sounds like some damn good Merlot! 😀
Hahaha, Man I’m So going to hell!
Only religion can turn one of the nicest, most-pleasant, most-satisfying, most-pleasurable experiences of life into an activity that dooms one to eternal torment.
Really? And people believe this crap?
Our little cat-licker Daniel is completely under the thrall of this notion — that sex is “evil” or “dirty”.
Nonsense. It’s just sex, people.
Fornication like this you really should have champagne.
My grandmother once said something like “How else are you going to get to know someone [you might want to marry]?” Given her age (in particular the time of her growing up and coming of age) that struck me as a pretty radical (i.e. liberal) view.
I’m not 100% sure of the details but I think she got pregnant (no pill back then) and married the man, and stayed married for life.
Grandpa could be a difficult customer, but he stuck with her and worked his butt off for her and the family. In the end he nursed her for a couple of decades until she died. Given the times they lived through (including the Great Depression) it would be difficult to argue that she made a very bad choice.
I think we are very lucky that we now live in times when fornication, with all its downsides, can be easily accommodated, and religious “teaching” on the matter can be safely ignored as being pretty irrelevant. I think the appropriate methodology to dealing with it is one of harm minimisation, and with that in mind go out and bonk who you please (so long as they are consenting adults). The RCC is just way out of touch, although it seems there are many catholics who are more sensible.
Thank-you for doing this series. I was a Catholic who for most of my formative years sincerely believed that fornication was a mortal sin. There is nothing “liberal” about these quacks.
I feel like ants are crawling on me – oh dear, there I go, formicating again! Sorry god/ess!
The term “dirty” can be in different colors.
One is the frightening-dark color. “If you do it, you are bad! “.
But there is another color, I am not sure how to define it – I do think that sex without “love” in a certain sense is “dirty”.
“Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman.”
So according to the catholic church, fucking kids is not fornication.
So sex between married people isn’t fornication?
Sili – nope.
If you’re married to each other, it’s a holy act.
If one or both of you is married to someone else, it’s adultery.
“It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons”
It is if you’re doing it right.
Pre-marital Sex
“It is written (Tob. 4:13): ‘Take heed to keep thyself. . . from all fornication, and beside thy wife never endure to know a crime.’ Now crime denotes a mortal sin. Therefore fornication and all intercourse with other than one’s wife is a mortal sin.” – St. Thomas Aquinas (“Summa Theologica” 13th century A.D.)
“Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.” – 1 Corinthians 6:18
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” – Mark 7:21-23
“Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” – Hebrews 13:4
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience….” – Colossians 3:5-6
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.” – Ephesians 5:3-5
“[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” – Galatians 5:16-21
No human society has flourished by treating sex as ‘just something you do and that’s it’.
Sexual inmorality brings about the corruption of societies, as was the case with Ancient Greece and Rome.
The finality of sex can be known by the purpose of the genitals of any sexually-reproduced plant or animal. In the case of the rational animal Homo Sapiens, it needs to understood rationally also. Are the eyes for seeing? Quite clear, isnt’t it.
I live sex as God wants it. Open to life and for the pleasure of my spouse. Never have been happier.
And how do you know exactly how God wants sex to be? Please respond!