Here are two short (ca. 7 minutes each) clips from Friday’s “Real Time” show with Bill Maher; watch ’em before they take them down. They’re both good–and larded with humor.
The first is his opening monologue about the censorship and fear of American media. Maher points out that Jimmy Kimmel’s firing occurred exactly 24 years after Maher’s firing, also from ABC, and Kimmel was Maher’s replacement. As Wikipedia notes,
ABC decided against renewing Maher’s contract for Politically Incorrect in 2002, after he made a controversial on-air remark six days after the September 11 attacks. He agreed with his guest, conservative pundit Dinesh D’Souza, that the 9/11 terrorists did not act in a cowardly manner (in rebuttal to President Bush‘s statement calling them cowards). Maher said, “We have been the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That’s cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building. Say what you want about it. Not cowardly. You’re right.”
Maher supports Kimmel’s right to say what he wanted, but adds, re Charlie Kirk’s killer, “It is a fool’s errand to try to say that these nuts who do these things are on a team.” At any rate, Tyler Robinson is, to Maher, is simply a nutjob who shouldn’t be put on either the Right or Left. He’s right in that it’s not very relevant, as political violence comes from both sides, but I’d say that Robinson is more Leftish.
It’s a good monologue with some grabby jokes, but, as always, Maher’s position is clear. I kow Maher has writers, so I wonder how much of these monologues are of his own creation. But for sure the delivery, which is great, is his alone.
And in the later sit-down bit, Maher once again takes up the political affiliation of the killer in a “five stages of grief” schtick about political violence., with the last stage being, “Please don’t be in the same ethnic group as me.” The message is the same as above: don’t put nutjobs who commit political violence into political boxes. (Maher said at the start that he was giving his message prematurely.) He gives quite a few other examples of hard-to-place criminals or accused criminals.
If America is to become less tribalistic and divisive, this desperate effort to pin blame on those not of your tribe has got to stop.
Finally, here’s a screenshot of Maher’s reaction to the display of anti-Israeli sentiment at the Emmys (I couldn’t resist: he gives a flehmen response at 5:31).
“…but I’d say that Robinson is more Leftish.” I find it so disappointing that you keep asserting this is the case – especially when touting Maher saying that we shouldn’t label him. Robinson grew up in a Republican household in a family that loved guns in conservative Utah. There is no record of him ever voting. Perhaps it’s true that he found himself in love with a man who was transitioning, but that alone hardly makes him “Leftish”. (Look at Caitlin Jenner, for example, a trans Republican.) If anything, Robinson took Kirk’s anti-trans views personally because of who he happened to love. That doesn’t make him “Leftish” at all, it just makes him conflicted. And his brain decided to resolve that conflict through murder.
SO sorry I disappointed you. I just gave my tentative guess, but, as I said, it didn’t matter. But I am SO disappointed that you chose to be rude instead of adducing the facts.
Don Cody was rude? As an uninvited suggestion – stop being so sensitive.
An uninvited suggestion: go comment at Pharyngula, where civility is not prized. People are supposed to talk to me as they would if they ere in my living room, and they do not tell me how to feel. You just violated two of those. Newbie, of course. . .
Since when does growing up in a household loyal to party A mean that one must be loyal to Party A oneself? Also, politicial affiliations change with time. In this day in age, being in any sort of relationship with a trans person puts one clearly on the “left”. (I put “left” in scare quotes because much of what seems important to them today has little if anything to do with the traditional leftist/progressive/liberal/social-democratic agenda.)
Of course, taking a wider view, many people’s views are probably a mixture of typical “left” and “right” views. There is a dangerous tendency to put people into boxes, which is exacerbated by a two-party system.
Philip, I did not say Robinson was still a member of “party A”. And I disagree that simply being in a relationship with a trans person “puts one clearly on the ‘left'”. People are complicated, especially when it comes to who they fall in love with.
I hate to say this, but go to Da Roolz on the left sidebar and read rule #9:
https://whyevolutionistrue.com/da-roolz/
The guy was a nut. He was into computer games with erotic content about furries. His politics may have been right in some respects, left in others, and what have you. But his real identity was pure screwball.
I agree with this view. It’s not necessary to label Robinson as entirely on the left or on the right or anywhere else on the political spectrum. It’s sufficient to say he killed Kirk because he opposed Kirk’s views of genderism and wanted to protect his “trans” boyfriend. That’s the plain reading of his notes and text messages.
“Robinson grew up in a Republican household in a family that loved guns in conservative Utah.”
Yes, because teenagers and twenty-somethings are notorious for slavishly adhering to the faith and politics of their families! As to Robinson, I think the evidence leans toward Jerry’s conclusion, and the Republican-voting Jenner is the outlier that proves the rule.
I agree with the larger point. The tendency to bin killers is misguided. But as I said here the other day, what is crystal clear is the political leaning of nearly all who celebrate Kirk’s death and justify his murder. I think the social implications of this are far greater than that of Robinson’s identity.
Honestly, I never said Robinson was still a Republican and was only stating the fact of his upbringing. I have NO idea what his current views are. No one does and that was my point (admittedly expressed poorly.) It was recently reported that they could find nothing that ties Robinson to any left-leaning groups. Yet we have a Justice Dept that will try their hardest to paint him as a Radical Leftist because that is what Trump proclaimed. IMO, at this point, labeling the guy Leftish, or Rightish, or Liberal or Conservative is premature at best and unproductive at worst.
Don, as I have been labeled all the above and more, I fully understand your point!
I think we are in agreement: Placing political labels on killers is, at best, a secondary concern and is oftentimes misguided and driven by partisanship on each side. I also find it misguided to automatically label a killer as “crazy” or “mentally disturbed,” as so many tend to do.
My greater concern is that it is clear from multiple surveys that the farther to the left one SELF-identifies, the more likely that person is to support political violence. Even at the extremes this is still a minority, but it is a growing and significant minority, especially among the young. Curiously, we see precisely the opposite on the rightward side of the political spectrum. Perhaps this shouldn’t be surprising, as the population of very conservative Christians swamps that of the potentially-violent handful of neo-Nazi types that we have in the country. I suspect this is one case in which those who derive their morality from commandment—Thou shalt not kill—are to be preferred over those who readily embrace nihilism or an ends-justifies-the means morality to celebrate and excuse murder. (And, yes, I am all too aware of how the conservative right can lose its moral bearing when the killing is done by the military forces of the State.)
You can find survey data about political violence at YouGov and the Economist. I deleted the links because they kicked me into moderation.
He wrote Antifa messages on the remaining cartridges. His mother said he had recently become radicalized on the Left. He murdered a prominent conservative speaker. His political alignment is quite evident beyond simply being gay with a trans boyfriend.
What is also clear – from recent shocking polls that Doug alluded to – is the astoundingly high percentage of lefties or “liberals” who support political violence compared to the tiny percentage of conservatives who say the same. I used to vote Dem but, as Bill Maher likes to say, I didn’t leave the party, the party left me.
The reality is (as the very same Economist showed days earlier) that actual political violence is far more common from the right. Generally an order or two of magnitude higher each year. My belief has long been that attitudinal support for political violence might actually be more often than not a symptom of its rarity rather than a predictor of its likelihood. Because, in the US, threats have crossed into reality many times, people on the right may be more cautious about endorsing political violence in surveys or in group settings. They know it’s not an abstraction; it’s something that really can happen. In contrast, people on the left (especially younger liberals) have less direct experience with real-world left-wing violence. For them, “political violence” can feel like a slogan or venting mechanism, not something that carries immediate real-world consequences. In Canada where political violence has been much, much lower than in the US acceptance of political violence in surveys that I have looked at has been higher than it is the US (~20% vs ~12% – although there are always polling methodology issues). From 2022 through 2024 the attitudinal support for political violence among the right in Canada was sky-high and common in casual conversation (like from my next-door neighbor minutes after first meeting him the day I moved into my current house, and an hour or so later from the guy who set up my internet, and the next day from the two guys who showed up to assess the plumbing situation for my planned renovations), but it was also clearly a case of expressing frustration and talk being cheap in low-risk contexts. We similar things in all kinds of contexts (for instance how students in safe high schools will often talk much ‘tougher’ than students in gang influenced schools – low-risk contexts).
It is reprehensible for anyone to celebrate a murder but I do not believe that “the political leaning of nearly all who celebrate Kirk’s death” being leftist is really evidence of anything at all. One would hardly expect those who agree with Kirk’s political position to celebrate his death! Most people on the left have not celebrated Kirk’s death (and speaking critically about the things Kirk stood for is not equivalent to celebrating his death, as some seem to think) and Democrat law-makers have spoken with respect and sorrow in response to his murder. The recent history of political violence in the US makes it very clear that the right has its fair share of people who are more than ready to accept the use of murder and mayhem to achieve political goals. The Proud Boys and their ilk have made it plain enough that they believe violence is a legitimate way to achieve the kind of society they aspire to.
I don’t think Bill Maher meant this, but Charlie Kirk’s producer had this to say in relation to the Kimmel affair:
Only a right wingnut would have heard that message in Kimmel’s monologue.
Perhaps. I think Nellie Bowles, as quoted by Jerry in yesterday’s Hili dialogue was probably closer to the truth:
Agreed. And I would extrapolate to Trump and his minions.
Since you took that as rude, I apologize. It never occurred to me that feeling disappointment at someone stating something was a sign of rudeness.
Well, Don, Jerry just does not like to be told how to feel, what to think, what to cover on this website … Jerry is 75 years old and has had a very successful career as a scientist … so yeah, disagreeing with him is okay, but none of us is Jerry’s father or mother.
Peter, point taken. I’m only 10 years younger than Jerry. It was certainly not my intention to tell him what to feel or think. I thought I was expressing my own feelings with that comment.
That is a good point from Maher that it’s more important to place the assassin into the nut job category than into the left or right category. Even if he was on the left or right, he was more bonkers than either of the other two things.
But unfortunately that argument isn’t going to prevail when leaders (Trump especially) and most influencers only campaign from the left or right.
Re Maher in the 5:31 photo I’m not sure if it was a flehman response as described in the Wikipedia link, so much aa standard grimace (facial expression of disgust, disapproval) but the point is clear.
Re describing Tyler R. as “left” or “right”, scare quotes deliberate, there seems to be rush to place him in the “political spectrum” doesn’t there? But it’s not straight-forward, I think, because what is presented seems more like mish-mash with no coherent politics. I’m not quite sure what left or right means these days. As self-described “left” for most of my life, it bums me out to no end to find trans to be “left” stance, for example, and it’s not comfortable to see an unbalanced nihilist such as Tyler Robinson described as “left”. This all leaves me stranded elsewhere, ah well, I can regard myself as a moderate centrist, whatever that means. That would meet with disapproval with many people I’ve know (“afraid/unwilling to take a stand”?. etc.), to which I might say I need reality-based information.
+1 Tom, I wish I would have expressed myself as well as you did.
His own mother described him as having recently been radicalized on the Left. I would think she would know. Plus him calling Kirk a “fascist” is a very leftie thing to do – they call anyone who disagrees with them “fascists” these days (“racist” seems to have gone out of fashion).
Let’s get real here. This was a political assassination and those can come from both sides. Oswald was a far leftist, and James Earl Ray was a far rightist, just to cite two famous examples.
I don’t find it surprising that the murderer was motivated by trans-related thoughts. The rhetoric coming from radical trans activists is completely unhinged. Ask JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, Kara Dansky, etc.
Just to give an example:
So not allowing a trans-identified male in female competitive cycling, this is considered “genocidal”.
Radical trans activists have convinced themselves that it is a human right to be a woman. And, of course, they are likely to believe that words are violence.
“Let’s be clear: Transgender equality is the civil rights issue of our time. There is no room for compromise when it comes to basic human rights.”
President Joe Biden, tweeting from his account on Jan 25, 2020 (emphasis added)
I have to admit being surprised that Maher didn’t push back a little more regarding America’s lack of a female president when compared to the rest of the world, including Pakistan. While Trump won the 2016 race, Hillary did win the popular vote and almost won the Presidency. I would not be surprised if the first woman president is a republican.