Courtesy of Pink News, we have this appalling cartoon produced by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. A mother teaches her daughter why same-sex marriage is wrong, and why you can’t get to Heaven if you’re in such a marriage. Truefact: the loving Jehovah won’t let you in if you don’t follow His rules, and one of those rules is no gay marriage!!!
The Disney-esque production belies a message of pure bigotry:
Note the mother’s claim, “People can change!” That is, being gay is a choice, and you could have chosen otherwise. That’s only one invidious result of religion’s insistence that people have libertarian free will.
The late rock star Prince was a Jehovah’s Witness, and, as the Associated Press reports, a true believer:
The two met while playing separate shows in Nashville, Tennessee, in the mid-1990s and Prince asked Graham [Prince’s bass player], who was a Jehovah’s Witness, to come on tour with him. Graham said Prince was deeply interested in the Bible and they would talk about it for hours.
“He asked me questions every day, every week — sometimes we would bring up the sun talking about the Bible,” he said.
Later, Prince asked Graham if he would move to Minnesota to continue teaching him about God and his faith. He accepted, and Graham and his family relocated from Jamaica, where they had been teaching Bible school.
Prince’s interest in the Bible grew and eventually he came to the conclusion that he, too, wanted to become a Jehovah’s Witness, Graham said. Later, Prince began worshipping at a Kingdom Hall just outside Minneapolis. Graham said he considered Prince to be his “spiritual brother.”
It was important to Prince, like many artists, to give his fans joy with his music, Graham said. But the most important thing to him was not just giving people a “temporary feeling” from a record or album but being able to share scripture, he said.
“His joy — his biggest joy — was sharing the hope of everlasting life,” Graham said.
I wonder if Prince thought that everlasting life was barred to those in a gay marriage.
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“Let’s practice being ignorant, narrow minded, myth believing bigots!!”
Prince was a great musician and songwriter, but his JW-ness appeared to warp his moral compass. Sinead O’Connor tells a story that suggests he thought inflicting violence and giving chase was the appropriate response if someone swore at him.
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/news/a44490/sinead-oconnor-prince-punch/
If that stories true, I can totally see the exact thing happening to me if someone like Prince chastised me for my language. Who does he think he is, telling someone what language to use?
He sounds utterly joyless, frankly. No wonder he died young, poor bugger.
Gay marriage bad, but sexy music good.
Kevin Smith’s tale of visiting Prince’s Paisley Park is quite interesting and entertaining. Warning: liberal use of f-bombs.
“One man and one woman.” Except, ofcourse, if you’re Abraham, Gideon, Solomon, David or any other Old Testament male protagonist. The cartoon seems to have gone global. Here is the Dutch version.
Wow, I had no idea Jehova’s Witnesses had the gall to do it in the Netherlands, where I live. Luckily it’s being roundly mocked
How does that contemptuous dismissal go? Something like “big bile duct, small mind”?
Poor Prince, enormously talented but apparently a pain-killer addict for past few years. Wonder if/how his JW delusions contributed to his demise?
Well, one possibility is that he was in a lot of pain. His doctors had apparently recommended he get both hips replaced, but he wouldn’t do it unless they could perform the procedures without blood transfusions. Supposedly they told him ‘no’, so he never had that done.
And hips in need of replacement can be extremely painful. As in hard to remain conscious painful.
So, he brought it on himself. No need to waste sympathy on him. Apparently the JW’s prohibitions don’t apply to drugs, then.
(I know the determinists would say he had no choice; just as I have no choice in thinking that people who are oppressed by others deserve my sympathy ahead of those who do it to themselves).
cr
If true its still sad.
Yeah, I was a bit harsh there.
cr
The cartoon is disgusting on so many levels.
The young girl reminds me a bit of hentai images. It reinforces my view of JWs as sexual repressives.
News flash…the deeper into religion anyone goes the deeper into sexual repression.
It’s never a shallow pond with religion, there is no bottom to the justification for self-torture.
Not just religious people, but homophobics in general seems to be suffering from a serious case of sexual repression.
Just the other day I was amusing myself by reading a comment thread about a video game character that was revealed to be gay. Most people were luckily supportive, but there were a few homophobes there.
One guy spent a dozen posts describing how all gays are into S&M and he was so shocked at all the things those icky gays did. Of course, he took great care to describe all those supposedly icky things.
I found the freudian supression funny before I thought about how horrible it must be to lead a life of such sexual frustration. Makes me feel sorry for the JW people making this video.
In the spirit of the recent 400th anniversary of Shakespeare, the phrase “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” springs to (totally non-Freudian) attention.
Well, that was depressing. I had no idea Prince was JW. Haven’t been up much on pop music lately.
This is so ironic, given that he formed part of the sound track for my coming out in the mid-eighties, while I was in grad. school.
Huh.
A funny thing I came across in the comments of a post about Prince’s death on a science blog the other day, a self proclaimed “open minded, following the evidence” creationist explaining how 7th Day Adventist’s are a Christian sect but that JW’s are just a cult.
I nearly snorted my brains out.
Apparently Prince was raised a 7th-Day Adventist, and converted to the JWs in the early 2000s after bassist Larry Graham influenced him. I hear tell it was at a vulnerable emotional time for Prince (a child had died), which is fairly typical for such conversions. The hope of a resurrection can be extremely stong, even though imaginary.
I would like someone who believes that being gay is a choice, put it to a test. Choose to be gay for just a day or two. No need to jump into bed just be a gay person. Then since it is a choice, choose to revert back to whatever you are now.
Propaganda and Brain Washing. The cartoon conveniently skips the buy-bull’s references to marrying your rapist or your brother’s widow, concubines, incest, etc.
Of course thy’re not going to point out the non-child-friendly parts of the buy-bull until they’ve got people hooked. They might be delusional believers in invisible sky-fairies, but they’re not idiots.
If it says so in the bible then it must be true because, as we all know, the bible is the inrerrant word of god and must be true. Still finding it hard to understand how Jehova knows what makes us happy but bans pretty much everything which is interesting or fun. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what happy is?
Surely this must count as child abuse if not out and out hate-speech? Then again, that does seem to be the special power of Abrahamic religions, the promotion of hate.
If it says so in the bible then it must be true because, as we all know, the bible is the inrerrant word of god and must be true. Still finding it hard to understand how Jehova knows what makes us happy but bans pretty much everything which is interesting or fun. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what happy is?
Surely this must count as child abuse if not out and out hate-speech? Then again, that does seem to be the special power of Abrahamic religions, the promotion of hate.
That piece of halibut is good enough for Jehovah.
Seriously twisted, will be adding this to the list of things to discuss when they knock at the door
Obligatory Python reference noted 😉
cr
Regarding Prince, I find it puzzling that a person with such creative talent – which you would think must be the product of an unconventional, independent mind – was apparently so gullible and willing to have someone else’s religious dogma imprinted on him. His bass-player was a JW: Prince talks to him a bit and in turn becomes a JW. If the bass-player had been a Catholic, a Shia muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu or anything else, would the outcome have been the same? Did he have no sceptical instinct at all? Did he never think to question the nonsense he was being fed? My feeling is that most of the people who post here (let alone our host) could demolish the doctrines of the JWs without breaking sweat. I’ve argued them to a standstill a few times when they’ve come knocking on my door, and I have no more than an interested layman’s knowledge of Biblical criticism or Christian theology. But apparently the Purple One just swallowed everything his pal told him. Very odd.
My observation is that the gullibility level of artists is actually higher than for other people. Perhaps it gives them a sense of belonging that they can’t get otherwise?
Yes, I think that probably is a part of it. Another prime example being Madonna and her dabblings with Kabbalah. I don’t know if she’s still into that, but she made a big thing of it at one time.
Perhaps the Beatles started it all with their Maharishi phase, although I believe that only George Harrison bought into eastern mysticism on a permanent basis – the other three all became disillusioned with the hirsute con-artist in a pretty short time.
I agree that artists are actually more gullible than average, but I don’t think it’s because of a desire to belong somewhere. Given the subjective nature of the arts, many artists fetishize keeping open minds, to the point that, yes, their brains wind up on the floor. An effect of this is that genuine criticism has become just about taboo. There are certain superficial ways to criticize art, but more often than not, and particularly if you don’t have an impressive set of credentials, if you criticize something, many in the arts will simply think you don’t get it. Another effect of subjectivity is that artists become good at constructing ad or post hoc rationalizations for why their work looks or sounds the way it does, a la a just so story. Where else do we find that kind of behavior?
Prince was a Seventh-Day Adventist before he converted to the JWs. From what I know, that’s less of a “conversion” than a slight tweak.
“It’s fun being in Islamic countries, to know there’s only one religion. There’s order. You wear a burqa. There’s no choice. People are happy with that.”
But what about women who are unhappy about having to wearing burqas? “There are people who are unhappy with everything,” he says shruggingly. “There’s a dark side to everything.”
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jun/23/prince-interview-adele-internet
Ah, this is obviously a definition of ‘fun’ of which I was previously unaware.
‘Order is fun’.
Could be ranked alongside ‘War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength’.
cr
Another reason why the postmortem praise for Prince was excessive.
Just attempting to clarify what you mean, do you mean that the praise of his musical talent wasn’t warranted? Or, further, do you mean that because of other perceived negatives about him, in this case him being a JW, that he does not deserve to be praised for his musical talents (even granting that they are legitimate) as he has been?
“Just attempting to clarify what you mean, do you mean that the praise of his musical talent wasn’t warranted? ”
No, I mean the excessive praise for him as a person was excessive, unless we assume he didn’t ascribe to, or was unaware of the bigoted teachings of JW. You can acknowledge his contributions to music without bestowing sainthood, or expressing love for the man, and much of what I’ve seen energizing the reaction to his death is fans in tears talking about how much they loved him.
Thanks for taking a moment to clarify.
The JWs knocked on my door last week, and we ended up talking for over an hour. I wrote about it on my blog, but one of the several things I didn’t mention in my post (there was just too much to write about it all) was when I challenged them about their views on homosexuality.
The woman went on about the Bible telling us homosexuality is wrong and all the usual crap. Her “compromise” with my view was that women (but not men) could be a JW as long as they were celibate. I think she was assuming I was a lesbian though, so it might have just been the first part of my conversion. She reassured me that it would be fine – that she was celibate because she wasn’t married, so it’s no different really for a woman to be celibate for life.
The mention of marriage distracted me down the path of the Church forcing itself into the marriage approval business in general, and I never properly talked about the LGBT topic. I’ll be ready next time they turn up.
Patience, you have, patience.
I could never last last a proposition. I would be like Sher Kahn telling Kaa, “No, I can’t be bothered.”
If they’re wasting their time flapping their gums at Heather, then they’re at significant risk of having doubt injected in their certainties, and they’re not using their time on more susceptible targets. Double win.
Still takes huge patience. The last time they tried my place, they got me while I was up to my posterior in emergency plumbing, and they got a very anatomically challenging range of suggestions about where their buy-bulls were going to enter the darkness. Oddly, they haven’t been back – guess they didn’t see me as worth saving.
I’ve never done it before, and I didn’t plan it. It was interesting though. Although most of my family still belong to various religions, they’re also largely secular so I’ve never properly talked to a real person with these views. I felt a bit sorry for her really because her view of the world is so limited by what can’t be called anything other than brainwashing.
There’s an ongoing debate between gay Christians and conservative evangelicals over whether or not the strong bond between David and Jonathan in 1st Samuel is a gay relationship of not, given that David says J’s love is “greater than the love of women” and the two make a lot of binding covenants with each other.
IMO, the fact that these overtones are systematically removed in the much bowdlerized Book of Chronicles in retelling the story indicates that at least someone back then realized you could read it that way.
Some Feminist readers also see lesbian overtones in the story of Ruth and Naomi (her mother-in-law). Ruth’s vow to Naomi has been used in wedding ceremonies for centuries.
Still there are those pesky passages in Leviticus which has a fair share of some fairly evil stuff in it.
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I’ve never quite gotten past the fact that the Jehovah’s Witness magazine “The Watchtower” takes its name from the same Bible passage as Bob Dylan’s most widely-covered song “All Along the Watchtower”
Interesting that a full blown JW would have departed earth without a Will to insure that he left bundles to the church. Unless one is found it appears his kids and or half kids will be fighting over the money for a long time. Maybe the JW’s will be in there fighting as well.
Oh well, it’s all good for the lawyers.
Jerry, looks like the entry to paradise is through airport security. Be prepared for an eternal goosing 🙂
@1:47
little girl: “…but I want everybody to get to paradise!”
JW mom: “So does Jehovah!”
me: “Actually no. Jehovah only wants 144,000 people to get to paradise…so if your Mom refuses to let you have a blood transfusion…because Jehovah doesn’t like those either and you die…your chances of making it are slim to none…closer to none honey because your Mom intends to make it to paradise even if she has to fuck you over…say by lying to you in a cartoon…again. Sorry lying is what they do”
That would be about 1.7% of the (current (-ish)) JW skull-count. Actually, no – considerably less than that, depending on the number of formerly-JW corpses rotting around the world, since you’re in competition with them for a place on the gravy train.
I was going to say not to forget all the posthumous conversions, but then remembered that it was the Mormons who did that.
That’s what I was going to say.
Everyone can not go.
Liars.
Great!
I can’t make up my mind regarding the TSA check before entering paradise.
Is he leaving his bag of Gay behind, or does he have liquids that are not packed in a transparent, secure, tamper-evident bag by the retailer that do not show signs of tampering when presented to TSA for screening and are each under 100 millilitres?
I wish Mommy had explained this.
“Mom” looked really familiar. It took me all day but I finally realized that she looks very like Kim Rosenthal, Mike Doonesbury’s wife from the Donnsebury comic strip.
One problem with the JWs is that their view of sexual morality is basically Victorian, with all of the associated myths. Homosexuality is not a state like heterosexuality, but sin — behaviors rather than a psychological state. Thus, it can be changed by repentance, just as any other kind of Biblically defined tendency to sin can be.
The JWs, being extremely insular, pay little attention to realities that go against the Victorian/Fundamentalist leanings of their tradition. That’s why they’ve gotten themselves in real hot water over their child molestation policies, where they quote the Bible’s so-called two-witness rule to avoid properly handling molestation cases.
I snorted at the “tell her about the animals” part. While I see the appeal of snuggling up to a friendly tiger, any tiger that didn’t, on some level, see me as food would not be a tiger. You’d think that people who go on about the evidence of “design” in nature would perceive that tigers are designed from the ground up to be sneaking, ripping, tearing, killing and eating machines. If they are not killing and eating machines, they aren’t tigers.
Religious nonsense really can be staggering. Will we snuggle up with the friendly ticks too? How about plasmodium? Will that be a helpful thing in paradise? Ah, I really feel rejuvenated this morning after that that mosquito gave me a peppy injection of plasmodium!
🐟 <- halibut
What this video does well is to show that many religious people believe they are acting out of love, wanting only good (as they see it) for others. Since JWs don’t believe in Hell, there is no threat of eternal torment. It really does come down to them trying to lovingly show people what their deity wants.
Yes, they are completely wrong about LGBT topics. It’s just very hard to combat this particular approach.
So Jehovah doesn’t like Gay Marriage, nor does he like Patients having life saving Blood Transfusions , Jehovah is just a humongous Dick!!
I do find their use of Disney-like animation to be their attempt to keep their kiddos interested while learning all things JW. I wish I could charge them with the crime of luring children into a dangerous undertaking much like some have sued cigarette companies for luring children into smoking by marketing them with a Camel on them. I’m sure they have another video for the kids showing why daddy can not have a beard or why their family can not celebrate birthdays and many other holidays save graduations and their wedding anniversary along with their once a year super special day they all wait to see if anyone thinks they are of the 144,000. Oh, and the conventions. The rest of the year it’s all about how many meetings you attend and how many doors you knock on and how many new “studies” you get from knocking. I will offer the occasional brave JW team of two that knocks on my door a bottle of water knowing they most likely will toss it out no matter how thirsty they are because of their religious persecution complex allows them to think that the devil’s army is so strong and it does not want Jehovah’s people to save anyone so the water could be poisoned to stop the truth from coming to the people. At least that was how many of them thought years ago when I was told to toss out cookies and water that was given to me from a householder. I told my mother the bigger sin was wasting perfectly good food that wasn’t at all likely to be poisoned. She stared at me for at least five minutes after I said that.