Update: the heated bogroll dilemma

April 19, 2016 • 5:13 pm

Reader Jiten called my attention to a tw**t by Graham Farmelo, an author who wrote a terrific biography of Dirac (see my short review here):

You’d think, wouldn’t you, that the inventor of the roll would know which way it should be oriented. But to me, the decisive argument is that cats prefer unrolling toilet paper oriented in this way.

82 thoughts on “Update: the heated bogroll dilemma”

  2. There’s no evidence that the roll is hung in the picture. It may just be convenient to draw it that way to show the features of the TP rolls.

          1. That’s what I call the “cat-accommodationist” orientation!

            There are worse things, however, than your cat unrolling all of your (improperly aligned) toilet paper- it’s the dreaded “fluddleluddles”, when too much pressure is applied in pulling off a piece and you end up with half the roll on the floor.This almost NEVER happens if the roll is aligned properly!

          4. I thought Ceiling Cat was the All-Powerful Cat, in which case orientations chosen by mere humans would be a matter of utter indifference to him.

    1. macro aggression directed at Diana;-)

      PCC(E): In the absence of a current live cat on your premises, do YOU unroll the roll all over the floor?

  4. Now to settle the issue on what was used before the invention of toilet paper. No need to go into detail.

    1. Gross, I think we talked about that here before. I seem to remember sticks, rags, rocks. It was awful! We seem to be living in the golden age of butt wipe.

      1. Sorry, I wasn’t here for that, I mean glad I wasn’t. Butt, the Sears catalog had other uses.

        1. I remember reading that the Romans used sponges on sticks- problem was, if you couldn’t afford one, you had to SHARE!

      2. In the Appalachian South of yesteryear, corn cobs were apparently the prime method.

        My grandfather once posed to me a question refulgent with critical thinking: “Given two corn cobs, one red and one white, which would you use first, and why?”

        The proper answer: use the red first, then test with the white. If you did a good-enough job with the red, you can save the white for next time.”

        Such apparently were the economics of mountaineer life.

      3. When I was younger I did a lot of camping. The right kind of leaves at the right times of the year are not too bad. But the best thing is to just remember to pack in some toilet paper.

        However I am now spoiled. I can’t even understand how I survived before the advent of flushable wipes.

      2. I thought we would now argue “from the left”, “from the right”.

        Cats can bat with one paw horizontally.

          1. A conscientious cat could use one paw to unroll it all and use the other paw to roll it back up.

        1. That price must be at a, “Bed, Bath, and Beyond” store- I remember seeing toothbrush holders starting at twenty-five bucks. One of those stores that cater to people who have more money than brains….

        2. The gov’t should have put WorldCom ex-CEO Dennis Koslowski (sp.?) in charge of military procurement.

    4. But then you have to decide whether to install the roll right handed or left handed.

  7. Number one, I don’t think we can draw any conclusions from this. There is no context; it simply shows a roll floating in space, not in situ.

    Number two, even if we were privy to the inventor’s intended orientation, I don’t think that precludes the possibility that the other orientation can also be correct.

    (Joking aside, over the top is in fact the objectively correct way to dispense TP.)

    2. Actually it’s much simpler than that.

      Number One is a relatively easily dispensed liquid.

      Number Two is a solid to semi-solid material that typically requires a bit more effort and time to hygienically dispense.

        1. But my way, the spider falls backward and to the wall. Your way, the spider falls toward you.

          1. Thanks, D, for always pisting that spider photo. I’m gonna be turning on the bathroom light if I need to get up in the night😖

          4. It is because of this picture that I put a plastic spider on our bog roll. I learned to not do it again.

      3. Oh that spider photo…

        I had essentially that very decision to make when traveling in South Africa. One night we were sleeping in lean-tos and the guide showed us a very open looking area with a toilet “for emergencies.” Late that night I really, really had to go, and I tiptoed through the bit of jungle to the toilet, with a tiny flashlight.

        There was, of course, a MASSIVE spider sitting right on the front of the toilet seat. I was dying to go “number 2” and this beast was between me and my destiny. I tried throwing leaves at it, some dirt, etc, but all it would do was shift an inch in response, and then right back into position.

        Ultimately I made the choice. (Sorry if this gets closer to graphic…) I did a number 2, squatting/hovering over the toilet just above the spider, with my flashlight aimed at the huge spider sitting there between my legs, hoping, as my legs were shaking trying not to sit on the spider, that it would not leap on to my very closely dangling privates.

        There…now you all know me a little better 🙂

        2. Somewhere the spider is telling an equally scary story–from her POV–to her fellow arachnids…”there they were, hovering right above me…!”

          1. Haha! “First he threw stuff at me! You won’t believe what he did next!!”

        3. “There…now you all know me a little better”

          The spider does, anyway…

          cr

  10. An earlier patent by Mr. Wheeler shows the paper hung over the top towards the user, in what I might refer to as the “Jerry” or “anti-Diana” direction.
    See US Patent No. 333,183, which shows the roll on a hanger.
    http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00333183&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0333183.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0333183%2526RS%3DPN%2F0333183&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
    Sorry – that’s a very long URL, but that’s what’s on top of my screen when I pick up the image from the PTO PATFT database. Perhaps someone can cut and paste the picture into a comment.

    1. That was from 1885, and is the earliest patent I can find in a quick classification-based search.

    2. How to do that:

      { is really a left and bracket and } is really a right angle bracket below

      {a href=”URL”}text goes here{/a}

    3. That seems to to show the opposite.
      The graduation lines showing curvature at the top also show curvature at the bottom.
      With shadowing at the rear where the sheets part company with the roll.
      It would be plain if it were just hanging down.

      1. I don’t think so.
        If you look at the tear line on the roll (as opposed to the one below the roll), that tear line must be on the side facing the viewer to be visible, so the paper goes over the top of the roll from the inside outwards.

        1. Nope.
          You can still see tear lines in the rolls at various points.
          The line you refer to is just an example showing that there are tear lines at regular intervals.

          The line actually being torn is back behind the shadowing.

          Why have that shadowing, at the same distance from the centre as the top.

          The back sheet is clearly being shadowed by the roll, Else, why the shadowing?

  11. When I first read the title of this thread I thought we were talking about HEATED toilet paper…

  12. This was settled centuries ago by Aristotle: http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/ari/oth/oth02.htm

    “If then (1) the body, whose movement is circular, is fire or some other element, its natural motion must be the contrary of the circular motion. But a single thing has a single contrary; and upward and downward motion are the contraries of one another. If, on the other hand, (2) the body moving with this circular motion which is unnatural to it is something different from the elements, there will be some other motion which is natural to it. But this cannot be. For if the natural motion is upward, it will be fire or air, and if downward, water or earth… These premises clearly give the conclusion that there is in nature some bodily substance other than the formations we know, prior to them all and more divine than they. But it may also be proved as follows. We may take it that all movement is either natural or unnatural, and that the movement which is unnatural to one body is natural to another-as, for instance, is the case with the upward and downward movements, which are natural and unnatural to fire and earth respectively.”

    So the hand should move downward, which is the case for the “from the front” method, for water or earth (as referenced above #1 or #2). The only exception is after eating spicy food: if fire is involved then an upward movement would be appropriate, or the pull from the back method.

    Cheers,
    Markham

  13. I am currently in Japan, otherwise known as the land of the heated toilet seat. This led me to misinterpret the head line. I found myself wondering why on earth the toilet roll needed to be heated! Perhaps it is to keep the spider warm?

  14. I side with PCC(E), Aristotle and cats everywhere – over the top is the only way (unless you are trying to defeat the intentions of a cat or a toddler.)

    Another objection to the ‘under’ method (aka the Dark Side): if the roll in question happens to be installed in the ‘under’ direction in one of those recessed TP dispensers found in public facilities, you could spend all day turning the roll in the correct (i.e. heretical) direction only to have the contents of the roll pile up in the back of the dispenser. The business end would never present itself.

    And for something not quite completely different, does anyone remember Kinky Friedman’s song ‘Mens Room LA’? The first half of the song has a great premise, but unfortunately the 2nd half fails.

    I saw a picture yesterday
    In a men’s room near l.a.
    Lying on the floor beside the throne.
    Had I not recognized the cross
    I might have failed to know the boss,
    I thought, lord, you look neglected and alone.

    I picked it up with lovin’ care,
    I wondered who had placed it there,
    When l saw there was no paper on the roll.
    I said, lord, what would you do
    If you were me and I was you,
    Take a chance, save your pants or your soul ?

    (2nd part omitted)

  15. Over the top is the only way otherwise “Toilet paper origami” by Linda Wright makes no sense

  16. “The heated bogroll dilemma”

    Saw the headline and I was trying to figure out what the purpose would be in heating a bogroll.

    Given the low heat capacity and the low thermal conductivity of paper, there doesn’t seem to be much point.

    Also, for reasons of conductivity, the heat would need to be applied to the outer layers of the bog roll. Possibly a small radiant heater element that the paper passes through on unrolling. It would need to switch off automatically when paper withdrawal ceased, to avoid cooking the paper and presenting the user with the burning bogroll dilemma.

    cr

  17. There is another way; put 5 or six rolls in a a pretty basket on the floor beside the toilet. This way there is no akward reaching behind to the wall, no opportunity for feline unrollment, no danger of running out, and should a spider stake a claim to a roll, you can just pick another. A roll can even be picked up in the orientation of your coice! Down with the holder, I say

  18. Hmm. Makes me wonder if all the cats I’ve had the fortune to serve were somehow abnormal…
    They all left the toilet paper alone if it was hanging down in front, in the – to my mind – correct rolling direction. My first girlfriend drove me to distraction by always hanging it backwards, but my cat loved her for it.
    In any case, assuming my cats weren’t all complete wierdos, it would appear that not even cats are agreed on this point.

  19. No matter what you say, I still prefer standing the roll on end on top of the cistern.
    I’ll get my coat.

  21. “You’d think, wouldn’t you, that the inventor of the roll would know which way it should be oriented. But to me, the decisive argument is that cats prefer unrolling toilet paper oriented in this way.”

    So true. And by this same immutable principle, as defined by the earliest inventor, the proper place for a pilot on the outside of the plane… Certainly argument by authority and appeal to antiquity can’t possibly *both* be wrong 😀

      1. If you look at the illustration carefully, those pax have got legroom and masses of elbow room – something you would have to describe very carefully to any airline exec these days as they would be utterly unfamiliar with the concept.

        cr

  22. Also patented that same year – the electric tattoo machine (patented by Samuel O’Reilly, December 8, 1891) Which is why you’ll find many tattoos of the number 1891.

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