More sport-related blasphemy: I suppose this sort of thing is par for the course at UK soccer games, but it’s just not done in the U.S. It’s worth a mention, though, if for no other reason to show that this sort of sentiment is still alive in the U.S. As Yahoo News reports:
Administrators from a Massachusetts Catholic high school have apologized after students at a basketball game reportedly chanted “you killed Jesus” at Jewish rivals.
Dozens of students from Catholic Memorial School in West Roxbury were reportedly heard chanting the offensive phrase at Newton North high school, which has a substantial Jewish population.
In the face of swift and widespread outrage, Catholic Memorial School released a statement concerning the incident on Saturday.
“Catholic Memorial School is deeply disturbed by the behavior of a group of student spectators who made an unacceptable chant Friday night while playing Newton North High School,” school officials wrote.
The Archdiocese of Boston even gave a statement on the matter, notes WCVB.
“We are pleased that the administration of Catholic Memorial took corrective action immediately during and after the basketball game. This incident, while not representative of the school community, presents an opportunity to promote an important learning experience for the students,” the Archdiocese said.
I’m not going to make a huge deal of this, and maybe the Catholics were just messing around, but it’s worth remembering, as a riposte to those who claim that Hitler exterminated people from atheist motives, that the Christ-killing trope is, in the end, why he did in six million Jews. And, of course, blaming the Jews for killing Christ has long been a part of Catholic teaching, tempered only in the last few decades.
h/t: Lesley
There are idiots and anti-semites in every age group, and many teens are very mature. But I suspect the only reason why this chant caught on rather than the initial chanter just getting funny looks is because we’re talking a crowd of competitive, amped-up teen agers here. One of them jumped off a figurative bridge and – surprise surprise – a bunch of others elected to follow him/her.
Well said, agreed.
Religion doesn’t cause bad behaviour. These are just bad men who, if religion didn’t exist, would have found some other way of demeaning their rivals, like beating them at basketball or something. #notreligionsfault.
Just kidding. It’s totally religion’s fault.
That’s hilarious, I wrote my comment before I saw Eric’s.
Did my coffee transport me back in time? Ghetto of Boston, 1933? This is malfunctioned prejudice on a classroom level of acceptance.
I do recall teaching an all boys HS (Catholic) where eugenics was a common trait among the students. They were not sincerely prejudice, they just thought stupid people should be eradicated. I found this peculiar as they never properly defined who would be considered ‘stupid’ and who would do the considering.
I properly concluded that fascism begins at testosterone driven puberty.
The assumption on the part of those calling for eradication of any group, “stupid” or otherwise, is that they will not be part of the “eradicated”. They seem not to imagine that they may not be in the elite deciding group. Who decides who decides? What are their qualifications? What are the characteristics for selection? Where is the line of demarcation between intelligent and “stupid”? Which IQ tests will be used (as though IQ tests truly measure intelligence)? Who’s to say criteria won’t be changed to include ever more people?
One thing that has always puzzled me is why
anyone thinks that eradication of any group will permanently solve a problem. In addition, some people seem to think that
wiping out “stupid” people will be especially beneficial because the won’t produce “stupid” progeny (as though
only intelligent people produce intelligent progeny and only “stupid” people produce “stupid” progeny). It would be somewhat like wiping out all people with a certain genetic disease in order to eradicate the disease.
Be careful what you ask for and set in motion. It may bite you in the derriere.
The rejoinder could be: Your Jesus Is A Fantasy
Didn’t Aldo Nova do a song about that?
Yes, it is a little known fact that Aldo Nova’s smash hit, Fantasy is actually about Jesus. 😀
As far as I know, according to the US legal tradition, it is practically impossible to charge a person with murder if the victim’s body is not available ;-).
Corpus delecti. The “body of the crime” — although, technically speaking, it requires only that a sufficient body of evidence establishing a crime, not an actual dead body, even in a murder case.
Still, given the numerous sightings of the alleged decedent still being among the quick during the 40 days following the alleged deed, I’d say it’s a very defensible case. 🙂
No, it’s not impossible, and has been done numerous times.
Really frickin’ difficult, for sure. But doable with the right facts.
Heh, I thought along similar lines before I saw your comment and commented at the end.
There is more to that incident then what is written up here. The Catholic Memorial students were chanting “you killed the Jews” but the other students chance it back about the Catholic school being a “sausage fest”. It was not clear who chanted what first.
The Catholic Memorial administration has forbidden any of their students from attending the next game at all.
I thought this was well-handled by the CM administration actually. In addition to the ban from the championship game, offending students have to personally apologize to the top admins from Newton North and shake hands. And the Newton North principal was very gracious and acknowledged that they have their own issues to deal with and principles to reinforce as well.
Seems odd to me that Christians see the crucifixion as a good thing, yet think the Jews are evil for crucifying him (even though it was the Romans).
You expect logic from religion???
“Young woman” translated to “virgin”
Trinity: 3 in 1 or 1 in 3???
Atheist bible guy here. I just have to pop in to say that whole “young girl” to “virgin” business is actually pretty complicated! Much simpler to say the macro details are silly.
I think that it is exactly atheists who should study the Bible. Maybe Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs can also do the job. But any believer in an Abrahamian religion is likely to be too much influenced by his faith.
“2 in 1, 1 in 2, flush’em both down the loo”
-Derek & Clive
The RCC has glossed that to “perpetual virgin” — which is a whole nother series of miracles, since the gospels identify JC’s siblings.
Actually, the correct answer is: “It’s a mystery.”
There is no proof that he (jc) actually existed let alone that he was crucified by the Romans. This makes the whole business even more absurd, as usual.
Pretty much everyone here agrees with that, but one can still expect internal consistency within a mistaken worldview.
Crucifixion was a Roman way of execution.
BRIAN: What will they do to me?
BEN: Oh, you’ll probably get away with crucifixion.
BRIAN: Crucifixion?!
BEN: Yeah, first offense.
BRIAN: Get away with crucifixion?! It’s–
BEN: Best thing the Romans ever did for us.
BRIAN: What?!
BEN: Oh, yeah. If we didn’t have crucifixion, this country would be in a right bloody mess.
Even though it never happened for Jesus, like Zeus, is a mythical character.
Yes, quite!
/@
I think it goes like this:
“I’m a Catholic and I’m glad Jesus died for my sins but I also hate Jews. How can I satisfy both these stupid ideas in one way?”
Foolish Consistency meet Little Mind Hobgoblin.
Yes, they certainly know how to PR the event. With words like – deeply disturbed, opportunity for a learning experience. I would call that BS. These kids know exactly what they were doing because it was learned in the catholic community where they live. The only reason for the disturbed so deeply was they said it out loud.
Where would you not hear this – an atheist school.
Yes! I’d never heard of the “Jews killed Jesus” thing throughout my secular schooling. I’d come across it in an historical context in my teens, but didn’t think it was a thing anymore.
Then I heard someone complaining about it being said on the news on TV. My Christian father (who was full of such “wisdom”) said he didn’t know what they were complaining about – they did kill Jesus.
This stuff is learned from other religious people and thus perpetuated.
I should perhaps point out that my father was someone I stopped listening to at about the age of three.
Sounds like a very smart three year old. I have a hard time understanding the excuses or passes people want to give to these kids. In short order they will all be adults with the same junk packed into their tiny brains. The Catholics always get a pass, even all the pedophiles. Soon we will see St. Pedophiles.
Yeah, I have never heard the term “Christ killer” from any group other than Catholics. As an atheist, I didn’t even know what the hell they were talking about and as a Classics grad I totally thought the Romans really killed Christ.
I wish I were there to yell “Pontius Pilate was only doing his job!” at no one in particular.
My father was Presbyterian. However I went to Sunday School and church into my teens and never heard the phrase. I always thought it was Pontius Pilate too.
I also always wondered what they were complaining about anyway – Jesus supposedly came to die for our sins so surely whoever killed him was just doing God’s will.
To me, it is more complex. I think it is mostly atheist students who organize “divestments”, boycott Israeli academics and offer whole-hearted support to all thugs who want to kill off the Jews.
I have been an atheist all my life and I never heard that. They would not be atheists that I would have anything to do with. Kill off the Jews you say? That comes from the likes of Iran and their terrorists, from Nazi organizations and from the KKK. None of these are atheists.
This story has been a bit overblown and is, I think, not really an example of true antisemitism rearing its ugly head. It was teenagers taunting each other with offensive chants at an emotionally charged ball game between rivals. I am very familiar with both schools and their history. At the game there were taunts going back and forth between the crowds of students and the main gist of the Newton North jeers were directed at the fact that Catholic Memorial is an all boys school and that of course all the CM students are thus homosexuals…, “sausagefest” was the chant used I believe, and the Catholic Memorial kids responded in kind. Both school’s administrations were appalled and apologetic. Immaturity and run of the mill meanness meant as clever, one-up the other guy taunts, and got out of hand obviously. Open bigotry in the Boston area was very common when I was a kid, but this event represents more of an anomaly these days than something indicative of the city, which is a much nicer place than it used to be.
But hey what about those chickens with dinosaur legs?
“Open bigotry in the Boston area was very common when I was a kid, but this event represents more of an anomaly these days than something indicative of the city, which is a much nicer place than it used to be.”
I think it’s only an anomaly in the “you killed Jesus” sense in that it’s perhaps not as open. Other forms of bigotry have had revolutionary movements that have raised people consciousness. Women’s rights, gay right, civil rights. What has happened over the last 50 years (when I was raised in the Boston area) that would cause people’s attitudes towards Jews to evolve, in a positive way, to any significant degree?
Boston and the greater Boston area used to be partitioned into far more segregated neighborhoods and school districts than is now the case. Open racism, ethnic chauvinism, and often hostility towards any perceived outgroup was the norm more than the exception, at least in my neighborhood which was a little rough. Nowadays, for most people and particularly those under 30, the identification of individuals with specific groups is not such a big deal. More people, greater diversity, and the more knee-jerk bigots dying off… those are what’s changed I’d say.
“More people, greater diversity, and the more knee-jerk bigots dying off… those are what’s changed I’d say.”
I’m not sure that anti-semitism qualifies as the same type of knee-jerk bigotry that dies off as easily when Catholic kids are still essentially being taught from an early age in Sunday school that the Jews killed Jesus. I’m sure it’s died off some but less so than bigotry that kids are religiously indoctrinated into.
I’ve found that certain neighborhoods in Beantown have some of the most entrenched anti-Semitism to be found — not the most virulent (by far), just the most persistent (as in “blah blah blah, those goddam Jews, blah blah blah”). It doesn’t seem these Bostonians even know why they cop an attitude about Jews. It’s more a cultural trait passed down through the generations, like being a Bruins fan or going to the dog track in Revere.
It was always a very tribal town.
Sorry to hear that hasn’t changed.
I’ve never lived in The Hub, but years ago I married into a big shanty-Irish clan from Cambridge, so have spent some time in “the area” (or “arear” as the case may sometimes be). 🙂
I grew up outside Boston. If you’ve ever read “The Body”, by Stephen King, or seen the movie “Stand By Me”, based on that story, you have a very accurate picture of my childhood.
Sure, both. When it comes to Boston fiction, I’m a fan of Dennis Lahane and George V. Higgins.
Ah, but what of Robert B. Parker? Or William G. Tapply? Hell, even Gregory McDonald?
“I’ve found that certain neighborhoods in Beantown have some of the most entrenched anti-Semitism to be found…”
And others the most entrenched anti-Spic,-Mick,-N-word, -Dago…
WE spent 5 years in the Boston area in the early 80’s and I was surprised to find so much racism in what was (especially then) considered to be such a liberal state. (“Don’t blame me, I’m from Massachusetts.”)
Your key-word is “neighborhoods.” So many of the big cities back east remain self-segregated. Boston, of course, is also home to something like 80 institutions of higher education; i.e., filled with the intellectual elite. Race and class in America…
And the other major cities are classless havens of altruism?
The most racist guy I ever met was a black guy who hated Mexicans. He was from L.A.
All the big cities have enclaves of bigotry. I’d say the situation in the east is a bit more so due to history however.
I’ve lived in Portland, spent time in CA & WA, and lived in Boston & NY. There is a difference between east & west. While racist friction is evident everywhere, it was only in the east that I ran into strong divisions amongst Europeans…(True of Chicago too, I believe.) Of course that’s not all bad–nothing like going out for Italian food in the North End! (Boston)
As demographics keep changing, the situations are always fluid, of course.
Guessing there ain’t much moss gathered on a rolling stone like you, huh Diane? 🙂
😀
Well, I’ve been collecting bryophytes in Michigan for about 3 decades…sigh.
I left out the 2 years I lived in Texas because I didn’t really get familiar with its big cities…Loved my time in Austin, though.
And this in yesterday’s Milwaukee news.
Group: Anti-Semitic incidents on the rise in Wisconsin schools
I find that more ominous than this Boston story, if only for the differences in Boston’s vs. Wisconsin’s histories.
Lenny Bruce had a whole bit about the Jews being Christ killers. He would relate how a friend of his tried to take the rap and, to absolve all other Jews, left a note in his basement that said, “I did it. [signed] Morty.” When Bruce was accused of being a Christ killer, he would say, “It wasn’t me. It was Morty. I have an alibi. I was at the movies.” If he really wanted to shock his audience, he would say, “Yes, we did it. Not only that, but when he comes back, we’re going to kill him again.” Sometimes funny, sometimes not, but always on target.
I admire the chutzpah but question the wisdom of (Jewish) science-fiction author Harlan Ellison who when confronted with a similar situation in Atlanta, Georgia, said “Yes, I did ma’am. Hammered in the nails myself and enjoyed every bloody minute of it.”
Yeah, I’ve never been able to see what was so terrible about the accusation ‘you killed Jesus’. So what, who cares, the bugger had it coming, and anyway he was a Jew so who else was going to kill him?
(Besides which, God set the whole thing up so who ya gonna blame?)
cr
Ballsy move by Ellison in the land of Leo Frank’s lynching.
Speaking of “at the movies,” I didn’t get a chance to see Mel Gibson’s totally 100% accurate documentary about this, but I heard about the verdict: “Jews guilty.”
As someone who was raised Catholic in the Boston area I can say this was commonly used insult against Jews. At that I time I don’t recall anyone being reprimanded for it any differently than they would be for calling someone fat. It wasn’t that it wasn’t true, but that you should just keep it to yourself, and not say anything. I suspect that attitude persists.
Religion poisons everything. Even sport.
Having gone to school in West Roxbury (Roxbury Latin School NOT Catholic Memorial), I am quite familiar with CM, as we called it.
Back then, it was the last stop before reform school, or the penitentiary. Though going to CM was a good training ground for a life in organized crime. Being insulted by CM was a badge of honor.
Yes, RL and CM were different sorts of places indeed. And when it comes to the penitentiary, I suspect I knew some of whom you refer to. But last time I was in that neck of the woods I found it rather drastically changed, the present imbroglio nothwithstanding.
Kind of like the difference between Oxford and a borstal.
I’m surprised to hear that about the folks from West Roxbury; they seemed so nice back during the busing crisis. 🙂
I don’t remember what West Roxbury was doing during the busing crisis. I just remember South Boston went starkers. My sister and I couldn’t figure out just who would WANT to go to school in South Boston, let alone be bused there.
I also seem to recall that CM drew from all over, not just from West Roxbury. I do know no one would let their kids go to dances there.
My understanding is that they had a couple particularly nasty incidents in West Roxbury, though not the persistent ugliness that went down at ground zero in Southie.
Maybe it’s early onset dementia, but I really don’t remember. I think I was at college when all that went down. UMass Amherst. And if you knew what I was up to at Umass (it was the early ’70s), you’d understand that some things are rather…blurry… to me.
I always thought it was weird that West Roxbury was so white, while Roxbury was so black. Then again, I have spent my life hearing, when I say I went to Roxbury Latin, “Oh, Boston Latin!”
No. They aren’t the same. No offense to Boston Latin, a very fine school. But not in the same league. What crosses we have to bear…(Like anyone gives a shite.)
The crucifix is the symbol for Christianity. Many Christians wear miniature crucifixes around their necks. This raises a question in my mind. Do you think that if the electric chair was used for execution in Jesus’ time that Christians would wear miniature electric chairs around their necks and each church would have a replica at the front of its hall?
I recall that (Jewish) comedian Lenny Bruce posed that same question.
Yes, and the Catholics love a good execution, just not that one.
Funny how you never here about the catholics and their role in the Holy inquisition!! Remember burning Giordano Bruno at the stake or the Galileo affair?
The town I grew up in was home to both a Catholic seminary and a Jewish yeshiva, the two of them not much more than a block apart. The two schools frequently competed against each other on sports fields and gymnasium courts (especially since neither school had the manpower to compete against the area’s much larger public and parochial schools).
In the Spring, on my way home from baseball practice, I’d see the yeshiva students and the seminary students walking up parallel streets leading to the baseball fields behind city hall that my team had just vacated, their bats slung over their shoulders, spikes strung over the barrel, ball gloves propped on the end. The Jewish kids wore baseball pants with tzitzis; some had the Cleveland Indians’ “Chief Wahoo” logo stitched onto their yarmulkes.
The sight of those kids walking up the ridge to go play ball never failed to stir in me a nascent sense of patriotic pride. This story fills me with its opposite.
Yes, comparing your story with the OP story makes me want to paraphrase: “trash talking poisons everything.” Whether these students are actively anti-semites, go-along anti-semites, or were just reaching for an insult of convenience and didn’t really care about its content, a bigger point to be had here is that they have utterly lost the concept of friendly rivalry/competition. Of respecting ones’ sporting opponents even while trying to beat them.
Though I guess I should be a little charitable, since in this case it wasn’t the athletes themselves that did the deed, but rather the spectators.
Too bad they didn’t chant back, “your god is imaginary!” 😀
“I suppose this sort of thing is par for the course at UK soccer games,”
WTF???
I’m dimly aware that UK soccer hooligans taunt each other, but I’m not aware that their taunts are commonly antisemitic.
cr
When I lived in North London many moons ago the only antisemitic taunt that I was aware of was when Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur were playing. The Arsenal fans (the hooligan part) would make a hissing sound supposed to immitate the sound of escaping gas. This was due to the fact that there were more Jewish people living in Tottenham than in Highbury. I don’t know if that still continues.
Yeh. Not saying it never happens, just that it’s certainly not ‘par for the course’.
(Possibly partly because Jews aren’t very prominent in soccer).
If PCC was referring to taunts in general, that might be more credible.
cr
“… would make a hissing sound supposed to immitate the sound of escaping gas.”
That is beyond the pale! Where are the intelligent humans to get this point across to them?!
This is soccer hooligans we’re talking about. The UK has the best (worst?) soccer hooligans in the world. The ISIS of sports fans.
(Actually, a bit like ISIS, they usually attack other sects of soccer hooligan. They don’t usually bother with unbelievers such as, say, tennis fans).
cr
It wasn’t the Jews, it was the Italians.
Yeh. When I’m in northern Italy in a few months time, I must remember to yell out the car window, ‘You killed Jesus’.
Actually, I think I’ll settle for ‘You killed Boadicea’, which has the advantage of actually referring to a real person.
cr
Typical mindless religious ignorance.
There whole stupid Jesus story is meaningless without his (so called) death.
And, Jesus was a Jew.
And, double and, if Jesus didn’t want to die he could have used his god magic, unless,
Jesus is not much of a god.
See? Logic poisons everything …