Soccer game in Turkey turns bad

November 20, 2015 • 12:03 pm

This saddens me immensely. I’ve been to Turkey four times, love the country and its people, and, until recentlyat least, saw the country as inhabited by moderate Muslims living under a largely secular government (Ataturk is one of my heroes). And yet the Erdoğan government is turning the country back into a theocracy, and many inhabitants are apparently going along willingly. I can only guess what my liberal Turkish friends think of all this.

One bad sign: at a soccer game between Turkey and Greece on Tuesday, a moment of silence preceding the game, requested in the name of the victims of the Paris massacre, was interrupted not only by booing, but worse. As CNN reports, quoting other venues:

It’s hard to hear what’s happening in the video, but according to reports from Reuters and CBS, some fans of Turkey’s team booed, hissed and chanted phrases such as “Allahu akbar” (which was said by the terrorists during the attacks and earlier this year during the attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris).

A similar incident took place in October as a moment of silence for the victims of the bombings in Ankara, Turkey, was met with jeers.

Regardless of whether they shouted “Allahu akbar,” this is still very bad form, and not worthy of the Turkey that I know.

The report also notes that Turkey’s coach, Fatih Terim said, “”We shouldn’t portray ourselves like this. When our fans act like that, we will have a hard time explaining ourselves to the rest of the world”, and “Why can’t we show just a minute of respect? … We are better than this. If this would have been done to us, we would be really upset. If we don’t act like we did today, we can prevent sports from being sacrificed to terrorism.”

Here’s the video; judge for yourself.

h/t: Andrew S.

50 thoughts on “Soccer game in Turkey turns bad”

  1. There is some cultural context here:

    “http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/an-explanation-for-why-turkey-fans-appeared-to-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-attack-victims/#.Vkyl9jlPPzw.twitter”

      1. I don’t know anything about Turkish customs, by I imagine their coach does. Why did he say that the fans were being disrespectful if they were just honoring the Paris victims in the customary Turkish way?

        1. Well, I don’t have an answer for that.

          But you can imagine that some Turkish fans might have had mixed feelings given the lukewarm response from Europe (or, /the rest of Europe/, as many Turkish people see it) to the recent attacks in Ankara; no monuments were lit up, and very few Facebook avatars were overlaid, with the Turkish flag.

          /@

          1. Well, it may be that the coach realised the ‘customary Turkish way’ of chanting patriotic slogans (if that’s what it was) would be seen by the world in a false light.

            It may also be that some sections of the crowd were annoyed that their own shocking massacre (102 dead) had hardly been noticed, as you say.

            Either way, it seems it would be misleading to interpret the commotion as any sort of support for ISIS.

            cr

  3. Well, Turkey may be turning, but remember that it is quite recently that British soccer fans used to make what I can only call “monkey noises” when a black player got the ball, and racism of all kinds is quite common in the game. I too love Turkey, and am frightened of where Erdoğan is taking it, but soccer (or what the rest of the world calls “football”) is not necessarily a good example of the political canary in the mine. All sport polarizes.

    1. Yes, and I deplore the behavior of British fans who do that. I don’t think it’s necessary, as we don’t see that in, say, American baseball games. Sure there are fans, but no longer any racism, though there was when Jackie Robinson came up.

      1. For the most part, British soccer fans have not behaved in this way for about 20 years. Anyone caught doing so these days (eg on TV or on the club’s CCTV) would face a lengthy ban from all football matches, and possibly prosecution.

        Russian fans are currently the most notorious footie racists in Europe, although (sadly) some Italian club supporters still behave badly too. But the game has mainly cleaned itself up – in this respect, at least!

        1. BBC Radio 5 had an eye-opening interview with a fanatical follower of England just before the England-France friendly the other night. He appeared to be someone who had part-devised the commemoration and presentation of Wembley for the game – the ‘Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité’ advertising boards, the red, white and blue light-show, the words of the Marseillaise reproduced on the giant screens, the tricolore cards for sections of the crowd to hold aloft.

          Having mentioned that England fans end up in some dodgy and quite frightening places abroad and their poor treatment by local coppers in countries like Kazakhstan, he explained that he was looking forward to the show of solidarity in the spirit of Tom Paine and the revolutionary lyric to the French national anthem.

          Now there’s something you hardly ever hear in the U.K. Tom Paine! Obama could only slyly allude to him in his first Inaugural Address. England footie fans for the Enlightenment: there’s a turn up. x

        1. Every country that plays football (with one exception) calls it football. The french call it “football”. Germany – Fußball. Portugal- Futebol. Spain – fútbol.Russia – futbólu.etc, etc.
          The world governing body is Fédération Internationale de Football Association.

          It’s never soccer.

          2. It was often called ‘soccer’ (short for Association Football) in England in my youth. It is only recently that – invariably English people – have come to like to pretend that ‘soccer’ was never used and to assert that it shouldn’t be used. Identity politics.

          3. Tim,a search in UK newspapers over the last 20 years shows “soccer” is never used except when referring to the “american soccer league”. The word has become archaic -like “apothecary”. Feel free to use it but don’t get disgruntled when others think it’s an affectation. Maybe some upper class rugby types used the term “soccer” in your youth. They did call their own sport “rugger”. If you said to a football fan – “are you going to the soccer match?” – it would immediately mark you out as lacking all knowledge of football matters.

            Some Irish may have adopted the American practice but the governing body is “Football Association of Ireland”.

            The first rule of football is……don’t call it soccer.

          4. Soccer is an English term it fell out of use in England during the 80’s, it’a not an American term. It was first used in England as shorthand for association football just as rugby football was rugger.

            If you look at either the Irish Times or Irish independent online guess which section “football” is under… GAA and soccer is under soccer!
            Some of us, it’s one of the first things you get slagged over when you’re in England is calling it soccer, that and the inability to pronounce “th”.

          5. Kieran, yes, I’m aware the word “soccer” was invented by the english. I’ve absolutely no objection to the Irish and Americans using the term within their own countries. Just be aware it’s not used elsewhere.

          6. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it called “soccer” in Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa? I recall that one of the 2010 World Cup games was played in a stadium called “Soccer City.”

          7. It’s called ‘soccer’ in NZ because ‘football’ has been pre-empted by rubgy union. In Oz they have some rather better variant called ‘rugby league’ or ‘aussie rules’ (that may be the same thing, I wouldn’t know).

            cr

          10. Except when it is. See my comment about the UK elsewhere, kieran’s comment about Ireland, and the US. So, not just one exception.

            Note that “soccer” comes from “Association football”, the style of football, different from rugby league and rugby union, that is governed by the Football Association.

            /@

  5. JAC – its not quite the same thing but it bears noting that your city’s hockey team, the Chicago Blackhawks, is notorious for its ‘disrespectful’ screaming/jeering during the national anthem.

    Personally while I don’t like either (the Turkish or Blackhawk behaviors) and would agree the Turkish behavior is worse, given the historical context I think any Greece/Turkey sporting event that doesn’t end in a riot or people dead should probably be considered a success.

      1. The cheering during the anthem at a BlackHawk game is not meant to be disrespectful of anyone or anything. It’s simply a local tradition that dates back to the 1980s during a playoff game.

    1. Oh hell no! I’m as much an out atheist as the next guy, but I won’t be shouting anything at an Islamist so I can live to shout such phrases from a safe distance.

    2. “La yujid Allah” = “There is no God” …but I wouldn’t go saying that just anywhere.

  8. I have only been to Turkey twice. I would love to go back,but am hesitating now. I found the Turks to be friendly, laid back and open. I’ve already mentioned a waiter in a Turkish restaurant who shooed away a dog which was bothering a cat out in the street. I was shocked when Erdogan was re-elected. But then, I am shocked by most elections these days. Who votes for these guys? Anyway, I still hope they will get out from under him.

    1. Erdogan, like the mullahs in Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, derives most of his support from rural, conservative voters. Of course, Erdogan also, cynically, launched a new assault against the Kurds so he could play the anti-terror card. Still, when our views of a culture are confined to Istanbul, Teheran and cairo, we probably get a distorted picture of a society.

  9. Maybe we should just be grateful that a friendly international between Greece and Turkey is taking place at all.

    Having a minutes silence at football matches is not really sensible. There are often a few idiots who don’t want to show respect. We have a long history of this in Scotland.

  12. I am Turkish & I was horrified when I heard what happened.
    Unfortunately I was not surprised with this behavior at all.
    Earlier, it was regular to see our anti-democratic-islamist President Erdogan attending to the football games, especially to the games played in Istanbul. During those games, the president, prime minister etc. were always booed by the Turkish football fans (majority of the fans in three Istanbul teams are secular middle-class people, they were also active during the Gezi Park protests). Of course, the protests during the football games were against anti-democratic & islamist actions of these guys. Then, they found the following solution. Of course, they still could not attend to the games of those teams where fans enter by paying for the tickets and get freely into the stadiums. For this & couple of earlier games in which national team played though, the government and its political party started gathering “fans” those are the young supporters of the ruling party. After this game against Greece, it was also reported in Turkish press that the group that booed during a minute of silence was the young people who were members of the ruling party.
    It is also well known that our government & erdogan himself supports rebelling groups in syria. And it did not bother them if the money and the guns etc. could go to the terrorists of the ISIS! Maybe they intentionally wanted the guns to go to the ISIS.
    Alas, for the first time in the history of the country we have such an anti-democratic-islamist government. They are ruling the country for ~13 years, and since from the beginning, the secular groups in the country kept declaring their deep concerns about the actions of these guys. But the EU & Turkish liberals kept supporting this guys claiming that this government was democratic (they were similar to the German Christian democrats etc etc). Of course if economy is stable, we know that no one really cares about democracy anymore. Hopefully this view will change!
    Now we are here: ruling party supporter “football fans” behave horribly & support the actions of the religious fanatics. Terrible!
    I want to finish now. But before that let me mention you that intellectuals of the Turkish secular movement (i.e. Kemalist journalists) were murdered brutally by the islamist groups (i.e. Hizbullah) in 90s. Then beginning of the 2000s, public elected this government; they always kept reminding their religious motives, their disrespect for Ataturk etc. We can go even further back in time, but it is unnecessary at the moment. Here is couple of links that shows the secular journalist/writers who were murdered horribly by such islamist groups those located in the country in 90s:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahriye_%C3%9C%C3%A7ok
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan_Dursun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C4%9Fur_Mumcu
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammer_Aksoy
    https://cpj.org/killed/1999/ahmet-taner-kislali.php

    2. That’s insightful, Onar.

      We discovered in North Cyrpus that Turkish Cypriots are very liberal Muslims and few regularly go to mosques. (In fact, I probably went into more mosques in a week than must Turkish Cypriots do, if our guide was correct.) And Kemal Atatürk still seems to be held in high regard – we were there for the anniversary of his death.

      But it was clear that the new settlers from mainland Turkey are more traditional. And the Turkish government is giving money to towns so that each can build schools … and a new mosque. No mosque, no money for the schools. This struck me as odd, given my (shaky) understanding of Atatürk’s establishment of a secular government. But it makes far more sense in light of your comments about Erdoğan’s government.

      I must say that it struck me as funny, and impious. that the muezzins’ calls to prayer all seemed to be recorded – and were certainly delivered through loudspeakers that sprouted from the minarets of every mosque – and ended with very noticeable and incongruous hums and clicks.

      /@

  13. This saddens me greatly too. I love Turkey and the Turks in general. For the most part they are very hospitable and friendly. My wife is Turkish, although having lived in Australia for such a long time, she says ‘Turkish AND Australian’. Erdoğan is certainly taking the country backwards.

  14. Turkey seems to always have been in a struggle for secularism. It’s so fragile and I’m always routing for the secularists to win out (clearly).

  15. Although I admire and respect the training and physical expertise that goes into playing, “organized” sports (including, “solo” sports such as gymnastics, skiing, etc.), I view the parallels with religion as inescapable:

    (1) Most die-hard sports, “fans” (short, of course, for, “fanatic”) are inculcated with this fascination in childhood: children are dressed in sports-logo clothing; they are taken repeatedly to events where deep emotional bonding is felt with a happy and frenzied crowd; they are taught that to do without sports is a bad thing and that one should be upset if anything reduces one’s participation in the phenomenon; they are trained to “identify” with one team, and one team only.

    (2) The vast majority of sports fans are, “moderates”: although they may feel that the adulation of their particular game of choice is integral to their lives and sense of belonging and well-being, they are generally good citizens and don’t do things like picking fights over it or spending the rent money to go see a game.

    (3) Then there is the small percentage of, “extremists”: they pick (or HAD picked for them, in childhood) an arbitrary group of strangers to whom they form such a deep emotional attachment that they refer to them as, “MY” team- they identify so strongly with this team that any “insult” to the team is perceived as personal, and they may go on adopt the position that such insults are worth taking revenge over; so strong is this, “artificial identification” that violence often becomes an option in expressing their views or outrage.

    I have freaked out several sports fans when, overhearing them avidly discussing one player or team or another, I’ll say, “Organized sports is the tool of the devil” (this especially gets the attention of those fans who also consider themselves good Christians). They step back, saying, “WWWhhhhhaaaat????” and I’ll say, “Well, the merchandising of these events sucks billions of dollars out the economy, money that could be used to permanently, instead of temporarily, improve our quality of life- they are used to encourage people to drink far more than they need to and to consume far more than they would normally; public funds needed desperately for infrastructure, health care systems, etc. have to compete with demands they be used to build stadiums and sports complexes; schools routinely cut worthwhile educational programs so they can astro-turf their football field, etc., etc.”

    Of course, the conversation gets a little strained after that; most shrug it off as if I’m joking (I must add that one could say similar things about many other aspects of our society, especially with Americans just having spent over two billion on Halloween, and are now headed into the orgy of overconsumption of the holiday season).

    The phenomenon is as much divisive as it is unifying, especially in the Third World, where different cities, provinces, and states, and countries end up separating themselves into, “foes” so far as their favorite teams are concerned. The, “big four” (baseball, football, basketball, and soccer) have also been increasingly turned into shallow displays of, “knee-jerk patriotism” and regionalism.

  16. I recently read a few articles about the Armenian genocide and ended up losing quite a bit of my respect and admiration for Ataturk. I am by no means an expert on this topic, and you may know more about it than I do, but it seems his desire for Turkification of the country was not entirely beneficent. He also made some deals or compromises of very questionable ethics with an “ends justifies the means” mentality. I think he’s admirable in many respects, but I’m not sure he’s worthy of “hero” status. (Again, I could be wrong here. I haven’t read extensively on this topic.)

  17. Ataturk must be spinning like a Centrifuge in a Uranium Lab, it always amused me to think that Turkey ,alone among Muslim Countries, banned the Veil from Public Buildings , while in the UK you can walk around covered from Head to Toe with no-one having any idea who is under the Robes.

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