Don’t expect deep thoughts this week, for I’m struggling with recalcitrant book prose, and beyond that all I’m fit for is reporting on the lunacies of the world. But this is a good one, for it combines all the best of America: guns and God.
The Louisville [Kentucky] Courier-Journal has an article this week whose title tells all: “Kentucky Baptists use gun giveaways to lure unchurched to Christ.” You couldn’t make that up, could you? And it’s just as bad as you think (there’s an amusing but also frightening video at the paper’s site):
In an effort its spokesman has described as “outreach to rednecks,” the Kentucky Baptist Convention is leading “Second Amendment Celebrations,” where churches around the state give away guns as door prizes to lure in nonbelievers in hopes of converting them to Christ.
As many as 1,000 people are expected at the next one, on Thursday at Lone Oak Baptist Church in Paducah, where they will be given a free steak dinner and the chance to win one of 25 handguns, long guns and shotguns.
The goal is to “point people to Christ,” the church says in a flier. Chuck McAlister, an ex-pastor, master storyteller and former Outdoor Channel hunting show host who presides at the events as the Kentucky Baptist Convention’s team leader for evangelism, said 1,678 men made “professions of faith” at about 50 such events last year, most of them in Kentucky.
In Louisville, he said, more than 500 people showed up on a snowy January day for a gun giveaway at Highview Baptist Church, and 61 made decisions to seek salvation.
McAlister’s boss, Paul Chitwood, the Kentucky Baptist Convention’s executive director, said such results speak for themselves. “It’s been very effective,” he said in an interview.
One of the giveaways was near Murray, Kentucky, where I spoke at Murray State not too long ago. Here’s one of the lucky converts there:
They do, however, interview other pastors and laypeople who think this guns-for-Jesus gambit is a travesty, which it is. It makes me ashamed to be an American. When I feel this way, I remember H. L. Mencken’s quote from The American Mercury:
QUESTION: If you find so much that is unworthy of reverence in the United States, why do you live here?
Answer: Why do men go to zoos?
Some of the funnier quotes from the Courier-Journal piece:
- “The day of hanging a banner in front of your church and saying you’re having a revival and expecting the community to show up is over,” said McAlister, who hosted the religious-themed “Adventure Bound Outdoors” on the Outdoor Channel for 16 years.“You have to know the hook that will attract people, and hunting is huge in Kentucky,” he said. “So we get in there and burp and scratch and talk about the right to bear arms and that stuff.”
- Asked what Jesus would think of the gun giveaways, McAlister said, “I don’t know, but he was pretty handy with the whip when he ran the money-changers out of the temple.”
- A Baptist church in Oakwood, Ga., last year gave away .22-caliber rifles at services to attract men who don’t think going to church is “manly,” its pastor said, according to news accounts.But Chitwood said McAlister came up with the idea of focusing the events on the hot-button right to bear arms, and McAlister said it was his idea as well to give away firearms in larger quantities.“We have found that the number of unchurched men who will show up will be in direct proportion to the number of guns you give away,” McAlister said.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
h/t: Barry
Ohh my god….
You reckon they’ll run a background check on them fellers who win them raahfles?
Are they required to? (I would hope so, but …)
Maybe this is good thing. To me it shows that religion is in its death throes.
That is what I got from this too, as well as there are some parts of USA that get all nostalgic thinking of medieval Europe.It is very strange that some churches are resorting to bribery to increase their numbers.
Bribery was the only thing that ever got me into a church, I was 5 and the bribe was hot chocolate with mini colored marshmallows. I remember the hot chocolate, but nothing else.
For me it was the church across the street who brought in a magician one Sunday. He made a delicious chocolate cake that was made from a box of Tide soap. Yummmm!
I thought it was the communion wafers that were made from cardboard…?
b&
Lunacy – They should stick to giving away fishing gear, of which Jesus would certainly approve, and perhaps water walking equipment too: http://spas.about.com/od/exercise/a/waterwalking.htm.
“Yea, verily, I will make you fishers of men” (or words to that effect). Now, the denomination of my childhood apparently is making it “hunters (shooters?) of men.
So, what bait are they using to attract the wimminfolk?
What, fishing gear like this? 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-MpXCMcIs
What about turning Swords into ploughshares? forgotten?
Irrelevant propaganda.
Matthew 10:34, Luke 19:27, Revelation, even the Sermon on the Mount…Jesus is repeatedly revealed as a death god — quite unsurprisingly so, considering his father is a war god.
Like it or not, these churches are preaching a much more theologically-defensible and historically consistent (think of the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Conquistadors, the Pogroms, the Holocaust, etc.) gospel than any Enlightenment-inspired liberal protestant pastor ever does.
b&
Exactly. This kind of shit is much more in line with genuine original christianity than the sophisticated flavors espoused by most modern apologists.
Yeah, thanks, but I’d much sooner have the intellectually-suspect (but far more civilised) modern apologists any day. Much easier to live with.
I don’t give a monkeys whether fundamentalism is theologically defensible or historically consistent, the sooner it goes the way of Quetzalcoatl and Moloch the better.
Sure, that it pretty much the only reasonable position in my opinion as well, regardless of any monkeys. My point wasn’t that fundamentalists were better or more respectable. My point is that christianity is complete bullshit, even the modern liberal flavors. The point is that if you want to proclaim your religion to be one of love and peace, you can’t rationally support that as being derived from the bible, jesus, jehovah.
So a liberal christian saying that more fundamentalist christians are doing it wrong, or that arguments against more fundamentalist claims are off point because no one really believes that, is not a valid defense of there own beliefs. They would have to give up the bible. Shouldn’t be too much of a problem. They hardly use any of it anyway.
I do agree with you, except on one point (though i don’t know if you were trying to make it) – I think you might find that though they hardly use the bible, they would be extremely reluctant to admit that, and pointing it out in too stark a light could well drive them back towards orthodoxy or fundamentalism. I’m quite happy for them to ‘do it wrong’ if the net result is a more tolerant atmosphere.
To misconstrue those two verses on your part is clear indication of confirmation bias. The Matthew bit is nothing what you make it to be and the Luke bit you are clearly grasping at straws.
You of all the people’s comments I read on here are the most ridiculous. Stupid Jesus myth stuff that is tired and easily refuted.
ORLY?
So that’s where Christians get their perverted notions of “family values” from — Jesus himself!
And it’s quite clear from your statement that you’ve never actually read the Bible yourself, else you’d recognize the parable in Luke 19 as being a preview of what Jesus himself will do “Real Soon Now™” come Armageddon. You know? White horse? Flaming sword? Kill everybody with the help of his True Christian™ loyalists and sort ’em out hisself?
Far from grasping at straws, Luke 19:27 is the entire point of Christianity. Jesus the death god is the bastard rape spawn of YHWH the war god, and Jesus’s ministry was nothing more than setting the stage for the Ultimate Battle to finally bring an end to the Great Eternal War.
Neither is this some wacko fringe opinion; just look at the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Conquistadors, the Holocaust, and countless other examples of Christians doing as Jesus told them to and spilling the blood of Jesus’s enemies at his altar.
“Love god” my ass. Love gods don’t rape themselves into virgin girls’s wombs, and they sure as shit don’t infinitely torture men who look admiringly on a pretty woman and fail to immediately gouge out their own eyes and chop off their own hands, as Jesus made clear in the opening verses of the Sermon on the Mount of Death and Despair.
Oh, this is gonna be good — I just know it.
Refute away.
Present for us credible evidence that the Bible isn’t a fourth-rate barbaric faery tale anthology — that it doesn’t open with a story about an enchanted garden with talking animals and an angry wizard, that it doesn’t feature a talking plant that gives magic wand lessons to the reluctant hero, and that it doesn’t end with an utterly bizarre zombie snuff pr0n fantasy in which the King of the Undead orders his thralls to fondle his intestines through his gaping chest wound.
Do you have any contemporary evidence of any of these spectacularly unbelievable events? You do know that we’ve got lots and lots and lots of stuff from that time and place, none of it mentioning the Great Zombie Invasion of 33, right?
Do you have anything refuting the passionate (and obviously correct) arguments of early Christians such as Justin Martyr of the wholesale syncretism at work in the synthesis of Christianity and related Pagan religions?
How about a preprint of the greatest archaeological find in all of human history?
Or is it just your position that the living incarnation of the god who Created Life, the Universe, and Everything was moved to come and reveal himself to his Creation and Explain his Wishes for us…but he’s also so much of a prankster that he was careful to only leave behind evidence that nobody with half a brain can take seriously?
Cheers,
b&
It must have been Satan that changed the Bible words. LOL
If you put any attention at all towards what Christians say, it’s pretty clear that Satan is far more powerful than any of the gods they worship.
b&
Is it insecurity that drives the bond between religion and guns? Why is there a cultural connection between gun lovers and many Christians? Maybe it is the fact that religion provides guidelines for empathy that regulate its extension to others so that if the need ever arises ‘higher justification’ is granted for taking another’s life.
Yes, religion and gun ownership have something in common at their foundation – fear, born of ignorance.
“hunting is huge in Kentucky”
Not as huge as poaching. When I lived there, some eastern counties didn’t even have hunting seasons. Western KY has several “wildlife management areas” (deer farms) for repopulating the poached-out counties year after year.
A connection between deer poaching and snake handling?
Why do it, (repopulate the deer that is), since all they’re doing is giving the poachers more free targets at public expense? Just… stop. Then the poachers will have nothing left to shoot except (by the occasional happy accident) each other.
Actually, this is a great idea. These ignorant people will probably have accidents and eliminate themselves and neighbors. Darwinian selection for our amusement.
… You’re terrible person. I have a friend who teaches music down in Kentucky. If she was accidentally shot because of a neighbor who wasn’t trained to handle firearms but insisted on doing so anyway, I’d be rather upset. And what it’s selecting for isn’t exactly clear: not making sure one’s neighbors do not own firearms? Good luck finding housing in many parts of the US then. Not packing up and moving to a country with stricter gun laws? I don’t exactly think they are so desperate for music teachers who play in community orchestras that they’d grant her a visa.
If someone harms themselves due to negligence with a weapon, one can at least say ‘well, people should take precautions when doing dangerous things, or accept the increased risk’. But harming others is unconscionable, and it seems to be others who are harmed when untrained, reckless, or entitled people own firearms.
Apparently you totally miss the sarcasm.
“… and it seems to be others who are harmed when untrained, reckless, or entitled people own firearms.”
That was my point. Guns don’t belong in the possession of most civilians.
Or, for those who insist on taking the opposing position…well, in that case, the same “most citizens” would need to be regularly trained and certified and drilled in their responsible use and protection; see societies like Switzerland and Israel.
We here in the States have the worst of both worlds: too many guns and not enough people who know what to do (and not to do) with them. And, given the demonstrable irresponsibility and idiocy of the citizenry as a statistical whole (with, yes, of course, notable individual exceptions), that’s why I’d outlaw the sale of ammunition (including brass) save in a very well-regulated manner. If you want a gun but you don’t want the responsibility, get a muzzle-loader or flintlock or the like. Still great for hunting for food, and if you actually need more than that for self-defense then you can form a legitimate local militia / police force / sheriff posse and jump through all the necessary regulatory hoops.
b&
That’s a great argument…. except for the fact that almost all gun owners and almost all guns are never involved in anything untoward.
I cannot remember where I saw it, but even Switzerland has a higher death rate from guns than most European countries. That “well ordered militia” is not quite as disciplined as myth has it. Where people have guns, people die from guns
Here is a good start for you…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
A more complete and comprehensive list:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
Thank you!
You’re welcome.
I like tying the conversation to actual data. Switzerland is a bit of an outlier, but most gun deaths in Switzerland are from suicide. I guess if you decide to commit suicide and a gun is available, you are apt to use it.
You’d think that Constitutional originalists would support that notion — you have a right to bear the arms that were available in 1787.
Concur.
The hunter who can acquire game via a muzzle-loader ( not to mention a bow and arrow), versus an AR-15 with a night vision scope, is to be all the more admired for his hunting skills.
Especially since, even if one goes along with the idea that it applied to military arms even including battleships…well, that would mean private — even corporate — ownership of ICBMs. Or at least tactical nuclear field artillery. Certainly land mines.
If it’s reasonable for the international community to ban national ownership of weapons as it sees fit, then it’s damned well reasonable for nations to do the same within their own borders.
b&
Oh, my apologies. I’m not very good at sarcasm on the internet.
As a conniving Jezebel once told me, “Email is SO one-dimensional.”
” ‘We have found that the number of unchurched men who will show up will be in direct proportion to the number of guns you give away,’ McAlister said.”
Science! And religion! Compatible!
Nice!
….ah boy..!!
Um, you’re raffling off guns in a church. Seems to me you’re the money-changer of the story, not the Jesus.
Bingo! Good point.
“Ye who are without sin, fire the first shot.”
Also somewhat of an obscene suggestion it is OK to massacre large populations of folks who are doing things you don’t like.
It’s the worst quote of the piece.
I’m a Murray State professor who attended Dr. Coyne’s talk last year (we didn’t meet in person). I’ve never commented here before, but I’m glad Jerry came to western Kentucky.
Also, I live about 11 miles outside of Murray, right on Kentucky Lake, and “Poplar Spring Baptist Church” is the closest church to my house (a few minutes drive) and I am hoping not to be “eliminated” by one of my gun-toting Jesus-loving neighbors. Incidentally, “Poplar Spring Baptist Church” is also where I vote (and that’s the only time I’ve set foot on their property).
I hope the hair in your photo is a wig, ceemeck, and you’re sporting a fake glasses/beard disguise. If not, maybe it’s a good idea to visit the university drama department for some appearance altering advice. The subject topic post might attract attention from some local “hunters” interested in you as a target.
I doubt many of them are going to find jesus through the barrel of a gun, but apparently it’s all about numbers…..and possible donations.
I guess god needs his own militia. Onward Christian soldiers!
A caption for that painting.
Next step in attracting more men to church: hookers and booze. You can sin and repent — same convenient location.
…but wasn’t Christianity founded at least in part as a reactionary movement away from the Vestal Virgins and the Dionysian cults? Seems to me that Christians have always had sever hangups about sex, and I’m not so sure I’d trust them to get it right after all these years.
…besides, not to tie this in with one of Jerry’s posts from yesterday or anything, that’s kinda exactly how the Catholic Church runs its priestly class, except their hookers are a bit…um…young…and not exactly professionals nor volunteers….
b&
“wasn’t Christianity founded at least in part as a reactionary movement away from the Vestal Virgins and the Dionysian cults?”
Evidence?
I have no doubts that something like this has been done before, sometime throughout the history of xianity.
Sure has.
Now *that* sounds like my kind of church! 😀
Also, waaay more socially responsible than handing out guns! (I assume the female company were well paid for their attendance…)
You forgot some fattening food to go along with it. 😀
Who needs courage when you have a gun?
For one semester, I had a Murray State alum as graduate student in my research group. I took her off the hands of a colleague, from whom I learned by that experience the meaning of the phrase “damning with faint praise”. She was terrible, more than a bit unbalanced, and bailed out into another group from which she somehow squeaked out a PhD. (Not that it ultimately did her any good – she was fired from a postdoc at a national lab and given 10 minutes to clear out her desk, unprecedented treatment for a “scientist” in the lab.)
Anyway, while she was still a grad student in her final grad research group, this extremely volatile and emotionally unbalanced individual came back from Christmas vacation and happily announced that she had received a handgun for Christmas from her Dad. I never thought it might have had religious significance for her.
I think they should be giving away swords. In Matthew Jesus did say “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword.” What could be more Jesus-like than having your trusty sword at your side for every one to see that you are one with him.
ah, but that refers to the civil rights movement in the US of the 1960s…
Nice musical references at the end of this article and the recent article titled Pope Francis shows his true colors.
“Praise The Lord And Pass The Snakes”
-Hot Tuna
“Won’t Get Fooled Again” (Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.)
-The Who
“So we get in there and burp and scratch and talk about the right to bear arms and that stuff.”
Yes. My favorite quote for the day so far.
Mine too. Though he forgot to mention that they also peed on trees.
“Pisseth against the wall,” if you want to be biblically correct.
Your bible-knowledge surpasseth mine!
Nothing new, except the contest part, as far as I am concerned, alas:
I was in Indiana a few years ago – flew into Indianapolis and took a taxi (effectively) from there to Bloomington. Along the highway early on was a strip mall or something of the sorts where there was a business advertising something like “Church and Ammo”.
Asked what Jesus would think of the gun giveaways, McAlister said, “I don’t know, but he was pretty handy with the whip when he ran the money-changers out of the temple.”,
Statements such as this test my support of the First Amendment and the narrow definition of treason in the Constitution. To some christians this statement is a call to arms and a declaration to get rid of the “bad” people, i.e. non christians in government. It is an invitation to holy Insurrection.
I think i’ll go sit on the back porch, enjoy the sunshine and try to think more pleasant thoughts, and remind myself that this idiot is a nobuddy speaking twaddle, maybe a beer will help.
Treason? Seriously?
You know, this might just be a group of nice people who like guns and would never use them irresponsibly, going to a church filled with other nice folks.
There is at least a one-in-a-million chance that this is not an article about a group of hyper-Christian theocratic fascists arming themselves for the next Inquisition, intent on citing chapter and verse while plugging the gays, atheists, and Muslims full of holes.
Read my third paragraph. I was spouting off (:
I also live in a state where christians bring guns to church and say many of the same things … it can be very scary here.
I worked as a corps boy at a Methodist summer camp that was rented by different denominations each week. Nearly all the churches were easy-going, fun people – EXCEPT the Baptists. They were the thinnest-skinned, most vindictive, and meanest people I ever dealt with.
The Landover Baptists are particularly touchy – have a look at their forum ;).
I have often had great laughs on their website, especially with Betty Bowers:
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
Try again: forum
I just got around to peeking at that Landover Baptist web site. Goddam.
Here is the disclaimer published down at the very bottom of their pit. It is not Onion-style facetious:
The information presented here is Biblically accurate. Opinions concerning the technical difficulties, fitness requirements, safety, and ratings of self-crucifixion, flagellation, stoning, destroying enemies of GOD utterly, without mercy, and other activities inherent in Christianity are subjective and may differ from yours or others’ opinions; therefore be warned that you must exercise your own judgment as to the difficulty and your ability to safely protect yourself from the inherent risks and dangers. Do not use the information provided on this site unless you are a True Christian ™ who understands and accepts the risks of participating in these activities. Landover Baptist Church makes reasonable efforts to include accurate and up to date information on this website, errors or omissions sometimes occur, therefore the information contained on here is provided “as is” and without warranties of any kind either expressed or implied. Viewing, reading, or any other use of the information contained within this web site is purely the voluntary will of the viewer or user. You, ‘the viewer’ or ‘user’ shall not hold the publisher, owner, authors or other contributors of The Jesus Experience responsible for any incidents related directly or indirectly to the Experience. Landover Baptist Church, et. al., assumes no liability or responsibility for your actions.
LOL … you can tell they are “run” by a lawyer.
Er…Landover is one of the Great Old Ones of satire….
b&
I been had!
:-[
Love Betty Bowser.
This is the most convincing satire site, IMO:
http://objectiveministries.org/
The radio reminds me of a story my dad told me – missionaries raised funds to provide radios that were locked (through crystals) to a certain station that played religious stuff. I forget where this was, but the natives figured out how to unlock the radios & enjoyed listening to the local rock station instead. 🙂
Ha!
Yay natives!
Just in case you didn’t know…
😀
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church
“nice people who like guns and would never use them irresponsibly,”
I have come to doubt the existence of such people. Maybe some exist somewhere, but where?
Well, a lot of my neighbors, as a matter of fact. Here in Michigan.
I, too, often feel the need to apologize to non-Americans about stuff like this. It is embarrassing. You would think that this might be an April Fool’s edition of the paper …except it’s still March.
What Would Jesus Draw?
Is there no limit to their insanity?
Interesting site worth studying that shows mass shootings in America (with maps):
http://massshootingsamerica.wix.com/massshootings
It should be noted that Kentucky has had relatively few mass shootings. The site also has data on Mental Health Services provided by each state.
Cum ta Jayzus! Ya git a free steak dinner, and ya’ll maht win a GUN!
Ah’ll betcha thet if Jayzus had had a AK-47, he woulda REALLY cleaned up thet temple, and them Romans wounda’ had sech an easy tahm of hit arrestin’ him!
You’re right: you can’t make this up- that’s the scary part….
AK-47? That’s a *commie* gun! Only terrorists and Muslims use AK-47s! Real Patriots (TM) and Jaysus use AR-15s when Defending Freedom against random targets.
You want proof, I seen it on th’Intertoobs
http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly050504.htm
and that sure ain’t a AK-47 Jayzus is totin’.
Don’t stop there, serve beer in church instead of wine…
I bet these folks wouldn’t be so keen on the Salvation Army handing out guns to the homeless at soup kitchens. “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, they will repay you by busting a cap in your ass.”
Arm the homeless!
From the Arm the homeless! link (I love shit like this):
When contacted, Badger initially insisted that Jack Kilmer was real. But a few days later, Badger and two of his classmates, Douglas Lloyd and Eric Zimmerman, released a notarized statement confessing that the Arm the Homeless Coalition was a hoax. There was no Jack Kilmer. There was only a post office box and a phony press release.
In their statement, Badger, Lloyd and Zimmerman explained why they did it: “The project was conceived to draw attention to the issues of guns and violence, homelessness and media manipulation in our society.” But they went on to say they had been unprepared for the savage backlash the hoax had received.
I dunno. My cousin shoots black powder cap and ball. He told me he had a hard time getting caps, part of the present ammunition shortage. There are some downsides to the extremely successful Obama stimulus of the arms and ammunition industry.
That’s what happens when you take all their guns away.
The pastor of the Baptist church in which I grew up was well known to be among the best, perhaps best of all, pistol shots in town. We respected him because of this, as well as for many other reasons, mostly revolving around his being a regular guy who had made his living as a plumber and general working man before hearing the call to preach and attending divinity school. His personality and the respect we had for him made this church the most successful of several in town.
He kept a .22 target revolver in his office at the church.
“outreach to rednecks”
I always thought ‘rednecks’ was a term of abuse. A bit like ‘trailer trash’ or ‘hicks’ or ‘yokels’.
But anyway, if these unbelievers are capable of being lured into a church by promises of more weaponry, do we really want them in the ranks of unbelievers anyway? Good riddance and the church is welcome to them. Don’t let them drool on the seats.
It once was a pejorative but it seems to be something red necks now embrace.
Beat me to it.
And some of those rednecks are actually good ol’ boys…
The origin of the term, “redneck” began with the wearing of red handkerchiefs around the neck by striking W. Virginia miners in the labor violence of the early 1900s.
Makes sense. I thought it had to do with the farmer/laborer working his fields, with the hot sun bearing down on his neck day after day, the remainder of his body shielded by clothing and wearing a hat.
Same here.
I did not know that. Thanks for the lesson–that’s a noble heritage.
God Bless America.
snowconenyc.com
Didn’t Jesus say – “blessed are the ‘piece‘ makers”?
Nah, that was cheese makers.
Good one!
I’m not into guns personally.
I am often personally uncomfortable when having discussions with Christians who have the views expressed in this article. I think it comes from a dangerous place in our hearts and is opposed to scripture. Although there is a significant amount of violence in the bible I believe that two teachings of Jesus inform how we should think in regards to the underlying motives for events like that.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and those who live by the sword die by the sword.
“Render unto Caesar what is Caesars . . . .”
I’m inclined to wonder whether the Private Corporate Tyranny has been and is more and more replacing Caesar.
So what’s with all the tax exemptions for Christian churches and clergy?
I guess Jesus’s triumphant return come Armageddon isn’t going to be so triumphant after all, eh?
b&