Back in June I posted my worries about Mohamed Morsi (a member of the Muslim Brotherhood) having been elected President of Egypt. I was told by some of my readers to “calm down,” since Morsi was either a moderate or a meaningless figurehead. I don’t think that’s proved to be the case. Check out this video, which implies that he’s not a moderate. Here Morsi joins a cleric in a prayer for the destruction of the Jews and infidels.
My prediction: Egypt is moving slowly towards a state run on Islamic law, along the lines of Iran.
And don’t say he’s just along for the show; he’s participating.
h/t: Malgorzata
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I’m not optimistic about the future of our planet. The main reason is because these religious cretins are given so much credence.
One word:
Pinker.
A little deeper analysis:
Pinker’s and others, e.g. Rosling’s, observation of increasing functionality of societies implies religion will decrease eventually. (For the correlation between religion and dysfunctional societies, see our host.)
Neither of them can guarantee that the trend towards healthier societies continue, some of it isn’t even well understood I gather (e.g. decreased violence), but it is enough to take an optimistic outlook as baseline for the moment.
IMO, the trend will not continue. I believe that ethics is contingent on prosperity, which has generally trended upward along with the expansion of our species.
But what goes up must come down. Global climate change and the continued depletion and degradation of natural resources mean that bubble is about to pop. Scarcity is going to lead to a lot of fear, paranoia, and aggression. We are already seeing the edges of civilization beginning to fray. Riots at home and abroad. Crashing economies. The rise of Tea party lunacy and deepening strains of incompetence in our political institutions. The slide back into barbarity is beginning.
Humans are like grasshoppers. In times of plenty, individuals are docile and content. But when conditions worsen and the environment can’t sustain their numbers, they transform into a swarm of locusts–a mindless mob.
Let me be the devil’s advocate here.
Even if Morsi was against it, do you think he could/would have interrupted the cleric? His brain stopped working once he entered the mosque. He is muttering something to himself, not sure he is repeating what the cleric said – with the obligatory back & forth rocking (similar to shuckling).
This reminds me of the scene from Borat:
When the Arab Spring started, I told my friends they were merely trading one dictatorship for the other.
I’m afraid I may be proven right.
Doesn’t it suck when you can’t be happy about being right?
So much for Islam being “the religion of peace”
I think there is reason for hope. The citizens of Egypt, Libya and Tunisia now know at least that revolution is possible; if conditions become intolerable they have a weapon in their hands to change it.
Most Western nations required at least three revolutions before they settled on an enlightened democracy, though admittedly the US was an exception. I don’t see why the Arab nations should require any less.
corio37: “I think there is reason for hope.”
In what way is this reason for hope? The preacher said:
“Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters
Oh Allah, disperse them, rend them asunder”
I would say that this is a reason for how our hope has proved us wrong.
I’d be interested to hear which Western nations you think went through three or more revolutions before settling on democracy.
On the other hand, one could argue that the US, far from being an exception, had to go through at least two more revolutionary phases, the 1860s and desegregation, to resemble anything approaching an “enlightened democracy”.
In Mexico we’ve been through two, and we are a pretty bad democracy.
True. But on the other hand, while the first US presidents were all privileged white upper class slave-holders, Mexico had the great Benito Juarez, a native Zapotec from a poor rural village. I think there are many things Mexico can be proud of.
Honestly I am a bit skeptical when the translation is provided by a group whose mission statement used to read “In its research, the institute puts emphasis on the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel.” And it was started by former members of IDF. And it has been criticized extensively for being biased. And has been criticized for misleading translations multiple times in the past.
OK, YOU find a correct translation of what the preacher said and report back here, so we can discuss the real thing. For now, I accept the translation as correct, knowing what I know of Islam and its views about Jews.
Josh may have a point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
Or maybe not:
http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/06/26/cut-on-the-bias/
So what is the correct translation of the preacher’s sermon? If you are so eager to say that the translation isn’t correct because it comes from a site you don’t agree with, then provide a translation that you think is correct and we’ll take it from there.
If the preacher didn’t say “Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters”, then what did he say?
Quite shrill about this aren’t you? You’ll note that my post is not “eager” to point out anything except that Josh’s, and now revelmundo’s concerns for the objectivity of MEMRI may have grounds.
For all I know, the preacher intoned the faithful to use bleach whenever washing whites.
I meant “admonished,” not “intoned.”
In any case, the whole world over, politicians attend religious services as demanded by an overlong held custom of politics.
Imagine an American politician attending a liberation theology service where part of the sermon’s message was “God damn America.” It could happen. Should we worry about such a man? Perhaps, perhaps not.
I sent the link to somone in Egypt for verification of the translation. I don’t know when a response may be forthcoming, but I’ll post here when I hear something.
Oogedy Boogedy religion may be the lesser of their problems.
Egypt might be heading into a Malthusian crisis. They are rare because we usually manage to stop before that point. Data.
1. They have 80 million people and a high birth rate. That is a lot because the vast majority of the country is just sand.
2. The Nile no longer reaches the ocean. It’s all used for agriculture mostly.
3. The Nile delta is sinking while the oceans are rising. What could go wrong here?
4. 40% of Egypt’s population lives on $2 a day. There are the usual third world income differences, lots of poor people, a few rich.
Last time world food prices rose, they had food riots. Which was the start of the end for Mubarak.
Their food, poverty, and population problems are solvable right now. But I wouldn’t bet on Moslem clerics to be the ones to do it. Someone had to explain to the head of Saudi Arabia’s religious establishment that the world isn’t flat, no matter what the Koran says.
IIRC, he later changed his mind. I suppose someone explained that these days, that claim wasn’t (literally) going to fly.
And below that it’s turtles, all the way down.
“My prediction: Egypt is moving slowly towards a state run on Islamic law, along the lines of Iran.”
My prediction: ALL Islamic states are on that road. Yes, including the ones laughably called “secular,” like Turkey.
It’s a simple matter of physics. Islam is an unstable isotope. Either it fails to reach critical mass, in which case it withers away and dies. Or it does, in which case, it’s gonna blow.
Definition of critical mass: one true believer.
This seems grounded more in fantasy than in fact: Turkey has has a secular constitution for about 90 odd years now. In fact, at times they actually seem too zealous about it: Parties can be banned if they are found to be too Islamic in nature. Further, they have even banned Islamic headscarves for women for quite a large fraction of that time.
Fantasy seems a bit strong, but I’ll admit to pessimism. And while ninety years seems like a good track record, successful resistance to Islamism may yet be ephemeral: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/turkey-in-transition-less-europe-more-islam-a-446163.html
I have little doubt that your assessment of Egypt’s future w/ Morsi is spot on. I am wondering, however, on what solid evidence you have – after viewing the video – for your conclusions.
The U-boob video is dubious. Yes, it appears to be a production of MEMRI all right but do you know enough of MEMRI to “trust” their assessments and video productions of mid-east events and politics?
How can we be certain that the video is legit and not just a mock-up of several videos produced by a prankster?
The U-boob “description” was non-existent. This immediately raised my bullshit detectors.
It look suspicious to me.
It’s not just based on that video; it’s based on his statements about the recent anti-US sentiment and his slowness to act when the locals went after the U.S. Embassuy.
As for MEMRI, I don’t think it’s ever been found “guilty” of false videos, mistranslations, or the like. It has a good reputation for honesty. If you think the translation of this video is bogus, I challenge you to ask an Arab speaker.
I have to say that I wonder whether peoples’ automatic dissing of MEMRI comes because it portrays so graphically the anti-Semitism of many Arab states. People would rather accuse the Israelis of lying than come to grips with the vile anti-semitism that is endemic in the Middle East. I don’t understand that.
As I said, I’m very skeptical about MEMRI. Even a cursory look look at MEMRI’s Wiki page didn’t leave me feeling any less skeptical. The sections “accusations of bias,” “selectivity” and “translation inaccuracies further my skepticism.
The “description” under the U-boob video was blank. This concerns me. Never will you see a group like Media Matters, AU, ACLU or FFRF, for example, do something like that.
I’ve been duped a couple of times into believing that something was true and later learned that I had been duped, a victim of a hoax. I began to develop a six sense about these sorts of things, and I had that immediate sensation when I reviewed this case.
Something just doesn’t smell right to me.
PS.
Re: the Wiki page. Take a gander at where MEMRI finds its praise: from the likes of total morons – Glenn Beck, Brit Hume, Thomas Friedman, Jay Norlinger.
Being associated in any way, other than a mental ward nurse, with these jackasses should automatically bring skepticism to the MEMRI name. If GB likes ’em, you can be fairly certain that they too are probably gonzo.
When I saw this post, I wondered how long it would take before “MEMRI is biased” came up. Comment 7. Not bad.
“I don’t understand that.”
That surprises me. Don’t they have Israel Apartheid Week at The University of Chicago?
The reason is that it is now standard on much of the left to argue that Israel is entirely, or at least largely, responsible for the problems of the Middle East. Anything that suggests this may not be the case, and that Israeli Jews may have reason to be a little nervous, must be shown to be wrong. MEMRI has such a large collection of articles and videos demonstrating that, as you say, anti-Semitism is rife in the Middle East, that something must be done to discredit it. Very few people in the West speak Arabic or Farsi, so the “incorrect translation” ploy works well. Pointing out that it is run by ex-Mossad or IDF personnel is also a winner. Everyone knows how evil that lot are.
I don’t speak Arabic so I have no idea what those guys are saying. In this case I do believe that MEMRI probably translated correctly. I remember a few years ago asking a Lebanese friend about about one translation and he said he would have translated it differently but it wasn’t anything absurd.
The real problem with MEMRI is what they translate. No ally of the US or Israel gets translated when saying anti-Semitic bullshit. Mubarak was anti-Semitic but MEMRI never translated those statements. Sadat was *extremely* anti-Semitic, a Nazi sympathiser and he is considered a beacon of moderation in the west, an example to be followed.
MEMRI translates whatever it wants, it’s their right. But translating only silly/absurd/crazy things by US/Israel enemies is deceitful and dangerous. A couple of years ago Hezbollah was promoting peaceful demonstrations in Lebanon and western media described these non-violent demonstrations almost like terror attacks. Right now, in some regions of Lebanon people with al-Qaeda flags and insignia are beating and even murdering Shia and Alawite but this simply does not get reported in the west and anti-Semitic absurdities won’t get reported in MEMRI because they are paid by the US and Saudi Arabia.
That is definitely not correct. MEMRI published hundreds of translations from Egyptian governmental press och TV during Sadat’s years, inclusive a lot of anti-Semitic statements. Likewise from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE etc. MEMRI publishes also material written by liberals and reformers in the Middle East, by feminist movement and other dissidents. I suggest just opening MEMRI site and see the variety of material, inclusive anti-Semitic statements, by allies of U.S., definitely not only silly/absurd/crazy things. But saying that Saudi Arabia is paying MEMRI is undoubtfully silly/absurd/crazy thing. Was this your gut feeling or do you possibly have the slightest evidence for it?
When Sadat was enemy …
It was, of course, mu fault. I meant to write “in the years of Mubarak” and ended with “Sadat”. But somehow I doubt that Paulo Jabardo made a similar mistake and wrote MEMRI instead for HRW in spite of that this human right organization solicited financial help from Saudi Arabia, but not MEMRI.
Who said anything about HRW? They have their own problems. By the way, leaked emails from HRW clearly stated that there were recommendations to not come too hard on Israel to not upset Jewish donors. On the other hand in the case of Syria they openly cite youtube videos as evidence. Now, I don’t have any particular problem with that but HRW would *never* use youtube videos when issuing a report on Israel.
What you don’t seem to realize is that there are “coalitions” in the middle east and one of them includes US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. Under the leadership of the US *not* Israel. And MEMRI is one of the organisms pushing this coalition’s agenda but of course they have their own agenda.
There is an obsession with Iran and anything anyone there says will immediately be translated by MEMRI (and those things *should* be translated). On the other hand the samething doesn’t happen in relation to Saudi Arabia. And in no Universe is Iran worse than Saudi Arabia. Occasionaly they will translate what some Saudi guy says because it is just too much and, well, they are Arabs after all… But in general, US allies get a free pass (on MEMRI and big media).
So it would seem that HRW is neutral: on the one hand they take money from Saudi Arabia, on the other are careful about what they say about Israel.
Obsession with Iran: I would be obsessed too if my neughbour called me “a cancerous growth which must be cut out”.
Indeed. While MEMRI’s translations might or might not be accurate, there’s no doubt that it has a pro-Israeli agenda. As this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker says:
– Its co-founder and president, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Col Yigal Carmon, who spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.
– Of the 6 staff members, three others also worked for Israeli intelligence, and another in the other Israeli army’s Northern Command Ordnance Corps.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that the translations are inaccurate, but it does mean they are likely to present a selective perspective of the Middle East designed to bolster a particular view.
That’s interesting. Am I to understand that Jeremy R. and Paulo Whitaker, while presenting facts, are somehow distorting them because, undoubtfully, they have their past and their points of view which makes that their statements “present a selective perspective of the Middle East designed to bolster a particular view”?
I guess we all bring our baggage to everything we say. Personally I can see both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian dispute.
But it does worry me to find (which I didn’t know before) that a group being presented as if it were neutral is in fact clearly not neutral. That doesn’t negate what they say, but does mean the output is likely to be one-sided.
Even when they are the biggest platform for dissident voices in the Middle East?
…well yes, why not? It doesn’t mean they’re not important , or what they say is wrong, it just means being aware that they’re not neutral and therefore will be selective. Surely the more influential they are, the more important it is to know that.
I speak Arabic, and I can confirm the translation is accurate. However, I disagree with Jerry’s prediction that Egypt is going to be a second Iran. IMHO it won’t. Although both countries fall under the same wider Islamic umbrella, each follows different school of Islam and each has different political structure. The majority of the Iranian people are Shiite twelvers Muslims, and their political system is more centralised under velayat-alfaqih, a spiritual, papal-like leadership. This makes the country more coherent and easier to control and manipulate. Where as in Egypt, Islam is more diverse and fragmented, and there is no identifiable central spiritual leadership to exert effective control. Add to that, the large Christian minority and the much larger liberal and secular section, which unlike in Iran, it operates openly and actively, and you have quite a formidable obstacle and resistance to any attempt to swing the country to a more fundamentalist rule.
Yes, the translations you hear may indeed be accurate. No debate there.
What makes you come to the conclusion that a picture of Morsi praying to his sky fairy wasn’t clipped and the joined with a video from another scene or event altogether unrelated to the Morsi event to make it appear that the two events are related?
Please explain how that is unlikely?
It’s possible, but its really quite unlikely for two reasons:
1- As Jerry said, MEMRI has an excellent history in exposing statements and practices without attempts to falsify or manipulate them. Someone would’ve spotted such attempt. I’ve never heard any such claim.
2- cursing Jews and kuffar (infidels), is almost standard practice in muslim religious speeches (mainly among Sunni speakers). So it’s not considered by a devout Muslim (as Morsi is) as anything unusual or something to be avoided. On the contrary, cursing Jews is encouraged. Look at these two verses from Quran: “you will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associated others with Allah” (Alma’ida 82). Say, “Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way.” (Alma’ida 60). Those who Allah made them apes and pigs in the second verse are the Jews. If Allah the almighty himself has cursed the infidels and Jews, who is Morsi to object?
To your point #1: I think JC is mistaken about this. Have you read their Wiki page? MEMRI does not have an unblemished history of truth telling. Take a look at their Wiki page. Go to the bottom of the page where there is a references to “accusations of bias,” “selectivity” and “translation inaccuracies.”
After you’ve reviewed that, read further and discover who gives this outlet their attention and blessings. The name there shoul give you considerable pause.
Your point #2, although accurate, is beside the point we’re hashing out here.
Given the huge amount of material they post, their record is good. I suppose you’re saying that the anti-Semitic cartoons I’ve posted in the past from MEMRI, as well as other videos, have all been faked? Give me a break!
And of course some dubious people will give it their blessing. That’s completely irrelevant to whether they are presenting faked material or material out of context.
I have presented videos and cartoons promulgated by MEMRI showing the pervasive anti-Semitism of Arab countries, views officially promulgated by the state (go here and here, for example). If only half of the stuff MEMRI presents is accurate (and I deny that the figure is anywhere close to that), it would still show the vile and endemic anti-Semitism of many Arab nations.
I also contend that if some organization were devoted to presenting anti-Arab cartoons promulgated by Israeli media and the Israeli government (these would be a lot harder to find), readers wouldn’t question their veracity. The fact is this: people are just down on Israel, and therefore selectively criticize them, ignoring the endemic and disgusting anti-Semitism promulgated by Arab governments and media.
“I suppose you’re saying that the anti-Semitic cartoons I’ve posted in the past from MEMRI, as well as other videos, have all been faked? Give me a break!”
No, I’m not suggesting this at all. I’m referring only to the video posted here. When I view a video of this sort, I take immediate attention to any sign of it having been “pieced together.” To me, this video has all the attributes of a selectively spliced propaganda piece, in fact, it reaks of it. To be more certain about this, I went to again review the video so I could more clearly point out the reasons I have come to this conclusion. I found that the video was “removed by the user.”
For me at least, the very names of Glenn Beck, Brit Hume and the other dishonest baboons that make a mere-daily appearance Fox and Friends and on every Reich-wing TV talk show they could schedule cause me great concern. I personally wish to be nowhere near the camp these morons call home. Whenever I see their names associated with anything, I make sure I run hard in the opposite direction. Their names associated with any cause, I feel, is a solid piece of evidence that what they support is totally bogus and Reich-wing driven.
I don’t discount anything asserted here about the repugnant crap disseminated by the Arab news and propaganda market. I’m in total agreement. This kind of production, however, produces in me the same type of suspicion.
Something is very wrong. I can smell it. And for me, the stench is not subtle either. The fact that this video has now been removed really raises my antennae. I think it should for everyone as well.
My second point which you have dismissed is actually in the heart of the issue. Cursing Jews is standard practice in Muslim religious speeches. This is an undeniable fact.
Now, what do you expect of a devout Muslim, who happens to be the head of an ISLAMIC party as well, and so a prominent example, to do with his raised hands in prayer when the speaker starts cursing Jews? lower it? Stand up and leave?
whether MEMRI’s video genuine or not is really besides the point. The fact remains that a devout Muslim will have no qualm in cursing infidels and Jews. And and if he happens to be a head of state as well who was caught on video doing just that, there is no case for dismissing that evidence on the improbability of the act itself, which is basically what you seem to be doing.
to Revelmundo. This video is not removed, it is available both on YouTube and on MEMRI’s page. I wonder if there is not some problem both with your sense of smell and your vision.
Thank you for bringing some knowledge of the countries involved. To say Egypt could be run like Iran betrays ignorance of both countries, shariah, Iranian theocracy, recent Egyptian history and the role of the Egyptian military (including US payments to them). Serious confirmation bias here as well.
Didn’t the US think the Iranian military was properly bought before ’79?
It was, although not as much and not as directly through foreign aid checks. I’m glad you brought this up. Our payments to Egypt since the camp David accords are basically to keep Egypt on the same page as Israel (not the other way around). Thus, if any politician threatened Israel, or even started helping Gazans, US dollars are gone. A powerful disincentive for even the MB to toe the line.
That is 5.6 billion people.
1. Think Allah is up to it?
2. Are we going to have another Big Flood? How is Allah going to fit 1.4 billion Moslems on a big boat?
3. If Allah hates non-Moslems, then why did he make so many of them? The gods don’t seem to be very good at planning ahead.
There is always a possibility of conversion. If everyone were to convert, there would be almost seven billion happy muslims on the planet.
“Happy Muslim” is not a concept I’m familiar with.
I have known many that would fit the description, at least as much as someone would fit “Happy Christian”.
For what it is worth, Islam (like any other grouping of people of that age) is not a monolith of doom and gloom. If you don’t believe me, just try listening to a Qawalli performance, preferably with lyrics at hand :).
Not according to the Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Mustafavi Khomeini:
Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious. Islam does not allow swimming in the sea and is opposed to radio and television serials.
I especially like the last bit about swimming and TV, best to cover all the bases I say.
I never believed for one moment that the “Arab Spring” would herald anything but religious dictatorship. The clerisy is the most well organised and authoritative group after the government and the army in these countries, so once the government collapses, if the army is onside with them the mullahs have no real opposition. Add to that, that 98% of the population is Muslim, poor and uneducated and it’s hard to see how anything else could happen.
Agreed. Similarly, Libya will soon be (perhaps already is) run by Islamist terrorists. Give me a good old secular tyrant anyday.
Power vacua are like that, unfortunately.
And that’s where the foreign powers should remember what they did – if you collaborate to stamp out democracy and such, why is it surprising that another brand of authoritarians is ready to take power?
The shame of it is how islamasists were so easily able to high jack the revolution from the students leading it. Scenes of Copts and Muslims; men and women, joining hands to topple Mubarak were inspiring. But the uneducated masses weren’t in the streets, but their votes after the revolution held the keys to control. And the Islamic Brotherhood speaks to them, not university students.
In general terms, this is an unfortunately common trajectory for revolutions. After younger, more educated, more liberal citizens lead a popular uprising, there is a period of chaos, and the masses fall into line behind a new conservative regime. It (famously) happened all over Europe in 1848.
The anti-semitism of the Arab nations is without dispute, Morsi is a true beleiver and supports the creed and teachings in the Koran- secularism is lost in Egypt.
Here’s a quote that often comes to my mind when considering the current religion-driven convulsions in our world-
From, “The Blue Death”, by Robert D. Morris:
“The death of an old idea, however, is a
protracted and ungainly thing.”
I, too, am pessimistic about the Arab Spring turning into an Islamic Winter (pace Pinker), but not on account of a rhetorical sentence by a fanatical preacher.
What about this:
O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all
This is the second verse of “God save the Queen” and the reason it no longer sounds threatening is not because the sentiments expressed are not bloodthirsty, but because British society (on the whole) has evolved into a more secular direction.
Yes. But the translation of Ahmedinijad saying a similar thing about Israel turned out to be something less serious.
http://www.fair.org/blog/2012/04/19/now-they-tell-us-iran-didnt-actually-threaten-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map/
Is it possible that Morsi’s prayer is also being mistranslated.
Even if it is an accurate translation, you do realize that there is no God and such prayers do not work, right? Besides Egypt does not have the capability to harm Israel. Israel has 200+ nukes. Egypt has zero.
See Basees’ comment and other comments here.
And of course such prayers do not work. You do realize, however, that believers all over the world tend to help their deity of choice a hand if (s)he is a little slow in carrying out their whishes (commands?)? All that energy spent on whishing others to be erased from the face of the earth would be better spent on worthier causes.
Can I suggest that US voters ask their government to stop supporting Egypt (& Israel) with money for arms & make aid available for solely humanitarian ends? That would be a start.
See –
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/the-us-and-egypt-sure-look-like-allies-at-least-on-military-matters/262411/
Aid to Israel (& others) –
http://foreignassistance.gov/OU.aspx?FY=2013&OUID=164&AgencyID=0&budTab=tab_Bud_Planned
It would be “a start” all right – the start of the end of Israel.
Here is some more discussion on this video, with a confirmation of the translation’s accuracy from a source I consider trustworthy.
I don’t think this is a reason to panic though. Egypt has pledged to keep its peace treaty with Israel. US aid to Egypt is conditional upon Morsi keeping that treaty, and other conditions of protecting women’s rights and religious minorities, so for now they have genuine incentives to behave with moderation.
We have our religious crackpots here too. Plenty of Christians in the US offer similar prayers against Muslims, and sometimes their taint touches politicians. Generally we insist our politicians denounce such messages, but the GOP has too few with the good sense and courage to denounce similar attacks on Muslims.
Here is another point: the prayer is not commanding Muslims to commit violent acts against Jews; it is asking Allah to “deal with” them, to “disperse them” and “rend them asunder”. That last could be interpreted as murder, but it could also mean disrupt the unity of Jews. I think a lot of cultural knowledge is needed to really draw an accurate conclusion about what these phrases actually mean to Egyptian Muslims. Certainly they can’t mean anything positive toward Jews or infidels, but they may not be considered incitement to violence. This may be more on a par with Christian prayers that the whole world should be Christian, that all non-believers should find God or else be incinerated in the apocalyptic end times. We live with many Christians who have views toward us that are similar to those expressed toward Jews in this video. We can engage in economic transactions with them, we can live in neighborhoods with them, and our children can attend schools with them. So it is not necessarily a cause of great alarm, though it is a cause for real annoyance, and a cause to criticize them.
I think a Christian praying to God to “disperse Muslims”, to weaken them, to deal with them, to cause their religion and their goals to fail, would sound less surprising to us, even though it is equally detestable.
It appears in the video that Morsi is very intently and sincerely absorbing this message, so it does not speak well for him, and it is fair and proper to demand that he publicly renounce these sentiments. That is a matter for Egyptian democracy to address.
But still this is not cause to panic that Egypt will become Iran or Saudi Arabia, or support terrorism. There are millions of secular Egyptians, and many many millions more moderate Muslims. In Egypt, women are free to go to school, go without the hijab, have professions, drive cars, etc.
If Morsi and his party try to enact oppressive sharia principles into law, they might overreach and find themselves overwhelmed by a democratic backlash. They must tread carefully. They are subject to many constraints.
The scary Islamic stuff is not any different than the scary Christian stuff we have here, although in Egypt they have real political power. The open question, the one that Egypt’s future hinges on, is how honest and fair their institutions of democracy will be. If they maintain free press and fair elections, it may be quite difficult if not impossible for Morsi or his ilk to make Egypt into a conservative theocratic state.
Another point that I think bodes well for Egypt’s future: despite some scuffles, some vandalism, some real violence and death, overall it is remarkable that power transitioned and government was reconstructed with nowhere near the violence needed in Libya, or the horrors transpiring now in Syria.
That seems to me a sign that it is a country with the capacity to implement a healthy democracy and rule of law.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think people are falling for some old propaganda here. The former (dictatorial) President Mubarak talked up the extremism of the Muslim Brotherhood in order to justify repression.
But there have been democratic elections now and the worrying aspect of the result is not so much the success of the Brotherhood, but the fact that the Salafist party – which really IS pretty extreme – got 20% of the vote, mainly from poor rural areas where they do a lot of good charity work, thanks to money coming in from other Arab states (who get their money from us buying their oil).
The fact is that Egypt is a very religious (and still very poor) country full of young people with little hope for the future. The best that can happen is that a moderate form of Islam comes to dominate its politics and that the economy delivers improved standards of living. If not, we’re all in trouble.
Bad news indeed, and very bad for business in Egypt. If the Salafists have their way, all the ancient monuments will be destroyed and so would all the treasures of Egypt’s national museum – and of course there will be numerous other social evils thrust upon society. Egyptians are very very worried.