Thursday: Hili dialogue

September 18, 2025 • 6:45 am

Welcome to Thursday: September 18, 2025, and we’ve had lovely weather in Chicago, even into the eighties (Fahrenheit). It’s National Cheeseburger Day.  (Didn’t we just have one?)  Well, an iconic place to get cheezboigers is the Billy Goat Tavern underneath Michigan Avenue. Remember this SNL skit? The diner was in fact modeled on the Billy Goat Tavern, where members of the Second City comedy group gathered in Chicago:

It’s also National Red Velvet Cake Day, First Love Day (mine was Devon Powell in the fifth grade), Free Queso Day at Moe’s Southwest Grill, World Bamboo Day, and Rice Krispies Treats Day (I love ’em but haven’t had them in decades). Rice Krispies Treats have their own Wikipedia page with a mouthwatering photo:

ImGz, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons

 

Readers are welcome to mark notable events, births, or deaths on this day by consulting the September 18 Wikipedia page.

Da Nooz:

*The WaPo reports that, as we all expected, the firing of the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which involved her trying to be safe and sensible about vaccine mandates for children. Her boss, RFK Jr, who fired her, really doesn’t want any vaccines for kids, as far as I can tell (I think he’s lying when he says otherwise).

Susan Monarez, who was fired last month as director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told senators Wednesday that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. pressured her to change the childhood vaccine schedule and told her he was also speaking to President Donald Trump about the issue.

Monarez told members of the Senate health committee that she was fired for “holding the line on scientific integrity” and pushing back on demands from Kennedy to preapprove vaccine recommendations from his advisers who have criticized vaccines. Testifying at a hearing earlier this month, Kennedy told senators that Monarez was lying, while conceding that he asked her to fire senior staff.

Monarez, in her first public appearance since her firing, said Kennedy told her that “every day” he was speaking to Trump about changing the childhood vaccine schedule and pressed her to back him.

Debra Houry, one of three top CDC officials who resigned in protest of Monarez’s firing, is also testifying. She said she had to push back against Kennedy for trying to disseminate misleading medical claims through the CDC.

. . . . One theme of the hearing: Democrats describing the witnesses as courageous, while several Republicans attack their credibility.

“I want to thank you for being public health heroes,” Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Massachusetts) told Susan Monarez and Debra Houry.

From the AP:

Monarez said in her testimony that Kennedy gave her an ultimatum: “Preapprove” new vaccine recommendations from a controversial advisory CDC panel that Kennedy has stocked with some medical experts who doubt vaccine safety or be fired. That panel is expected to vote on new vaccine recommendations later this week. He also demanded Monarez fire high-ranking, career CDC officials without cause.

The parties were the other way round during her confirmation. Here’s Democrat Tim Kaine apologizing for his behavior during Martinez’s confirmation:

And Republicans acting well!

Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-Louisiana) pushed back on suggestions that it was inappropriate for Susan Monarez to contact him before she was fired.

“It is entirely appropriate for someone with oversight concerns to contact my office, or me, or frankly, any of us,” Cassidy said, adding that he contacted Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the White House to share his own concerns about what Monarez alleged.

Monarez testified that Kennedy told her not to speak to senators.

Apologies from Democrats and Republicans defending an RFK Jr.-fired defender of vaccines!  What is the world coming to? I’d like to see more apologies like this one, though.

*Many of us, including me, thought of Obama as a pundit, a man of gravitas who was generally correct, but at least worth listening to. I don’t quite hold that view now, but I do share his feeling, just expressed, that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a turning point in the toxicity of political discourse. I think it’s the beginning of a downhill slide, but Obama merely said it was a “turning point,” though he doesn’t say in which direction,  But I do feel something has changed; perhaps it’s the jubilation of the Left this time when Kirk, an opponent, was killed (the Right is not immune to that, but I happen to be on the Left). From the AP:

Former President Barack Obama says that the United States is at “an inflection point” following the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk and that President Donald Trump has further divided the country rather than work to bring people together.

“There are no ifs, ands or buts about it: The central premise of our democratic system is that we have to be able to disagree and have sometimes really contentious debates without resorting to violence,” Obama said Tuesday night during an event in Erie, Pennsylvania, hosted by the Jefferson Education Society, according to a transcript obtained by The Associated Press.

“And when it happens to some, but even if you think they’re, quote, unquote, on the other side of the argument, that’s a threat to all of us,” he said. “And we have to be clear and forthright in condemning them.”

Obama has kept somewhat of a low profile in his post-presidency. Responding to a moderator’s questions Tuesday, he addressed Trump’s rhetoric after Kirk’s assassination, as well as other administrative actions.

The Democrat spoke about his own leadership following the 2015 slaying of nine Black parishioners at a Charleston, South Carolina, church, as well as Republican then-President George W. Bush’s actions following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. He said he sees the role of a president in a crisis “to constantly remind us of the ties that bind us together.”

The sentiment among Trump and his aides following Kirk’s killing of calling political opponents “vermin, enemies … speaks to a broader problem,” Obama said.

He’s right and statesmanlike, of course (what a difference from Trump!), but I wish he’d weigh in a lot more often. Obama’s words carry a lot of weight, and the black community are also big fans (remembertheir increased vote for Trump in the last election).  Obama doesn’t have to pronounce on everything, which would cheapen his words, but on more than he does. He also is wary of impugning Republicans, which is okay. I’m very glad he weighed in on Tuesday.

*The Free Press takes out after the Attorney General in an article called “Pam Bondi vs. the First Amendment“, subtitled “At last, something we can all agree on: The attorney general has no idea what she’s talking about.”

At last, something we can all agree on: Pam Bondi has no idea what she’s talking about.

In an interview that aired on Monday, our attorney general said that the federal government would crack down on “hate speech” in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s assassination last week.

Hate speech is not illegal. It is not even a legal category in the U.S. Yes, we have laws against incitement, defamation, and libel, but nothing so broad and amorphous as “hate speech.” As Kirk himself once put it: “Hate speech does not exist legally in America. There’s ugly speech. There’s gross speech. There’s evil speech. And ALL of it is protected by the First Amendment. Keep America free.”

But the most powerful law enforcement official in the country does not seem to appreciate what Kirk—and practically every account on X—understands.

“There’s free speech and then there’s hate speech. And there’s no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie,” she said on The Katie Miller Podcast. Bondi added: “We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech.”

It was a stunning statement, particularly from a Republican attorney general. The GOP has insisted for years now that it is the party of the First Amendment, and Vice President J.D. Vance has made free speech a signature issue, going so far as to criticize our NATO allies in Europe for their chilling suppression of this most fundamental right.

. . .But in the aftermath of Kirk’s assassination—a moment of justifiable sorrow and anger—this administration seems to have forgotten the most basic American principles at the moment we need to remember them most.

In a ham-fisted attempt to backtrack, Bondi said on X that “free speech protects ideas, debate, even dissent but it does NOT and will NEVER protect violence”—as if anyone was arguing anything to the contrary.

. . . The upside of Bondi’s statement is that it has been robustly denounced by observers across the political spectrum, from the far right to the far left and everyone in between. We’ll take unifying moments wherever we can find them right now. But the fact that our unity is born out of our collective alarm that the Attorney General of the United States lacks a basic grasp of the Constitution she swore to uphold is cold comfort.

Yep; if we don’t watch out, this administration is going to turn the U.S. into the U.K., at least as far as hate speech is concerned. To see how it will begin here, have a look at this recent letter from four faculty members at Williams College, touting reporting “hate speech”, which they don’t define, and calling for its suppression. (By the way, quite a few of Williams’s “hate incidents” are likely hoaxes—most college hate incidents are—but the College won’t release the results of the investigations, even though showing that some “hate incidents” were actually hoaxes would reduce the atmosphere of fear and division on the campus.)

*Speaking of free speech, Laura Ann Rosenbury, the President of Barnard (at the rock bottom of FIRE’s free-speech rankings of colleges), has written an op-ed in the NYT called “Now is the time for colleges to host difficult speakers.” It’s also archived here

Colleges and universities have long resisted polarization and monolithic thinking by invoking these commitments to open discussion and inquiry, and we must continue to do so. College campuses must remain places where students are able to ask and grapple with hard questions, especially those that are uncomfortable and even hurtful. Higher education’s role is not to erase conflict but to channel it into dialogue, debate and learning. To do so, educators and students must face ideas we find offensive and speakers whose words cause pain.

Yet new strategies are also needed. Some on social media have attempted to minimize the broader implications of Mr. Kirk’s assassination by pointing to his extreme views, such as his arguments that some gun deaths are an acceptable price to pay for the right to bear arms. These attempts are like blaming a victim of sexual assault for going to a party wearing provocative clothing.

Instead of demonizing or valorizing any individual viewpoint, we must focus our energies on combating the groupthink that shifts us away from intellectual exploration and discourse — and, sadly, toward violence. To do so, we must critically examine how our campus cultures have evolved and need to change. Recent conversations about higher education have focused primarily on undue government interference. But we must also acknowledge the ways higher education is under attack from within.

Throughout the country and on many campuses, it is too easy to retreat into silos, reject nuance and seek out only those courses, speakers, colleagues, friends and environments that buttress our existing worldviews. The campus disruptions I’ve seen over the past two years — disruptions that have interrupted classes, destroyed property and restricted access to libraries — reflect this siloed mind-set. Protest should not silence others, and advocacy of political views should not undermine our academic mission.

To pave a different path forward, many colleges are now offering courses and programs on civil discourse and dialogue. At Barnard, we have started a new multiyear initiative of workshops and study groups to cultivate curiosity, broaden inquiry and help students engage others holding differing views with empathy and open minds.

But we all must do more. We must have the courage to explore ideas that diverge greatly from our own. That will mean inviting a diverse range of outside speakers to campus. We do not need to create a specific balance of views; we must simply engage with the widest possible spectrum of views respectfully, without disruption or violence.

This is all meant well, and, indeed, a program to expose students to diverse viewpoints is good (we have one here).  Pity it’s a bit mundane and a little too late. However, maybe the NYT published this because it’s the words of the much-criticized Barnard College (Rosenbury has been there for over two years). Perhaps she took the FIRE ratings to heart.

*I’m happy with my iPhone 13, but we’re on the 17 now, and there are FOUR models of the 17, including a mini. The WSJ weighs the relative advantages and disadvantages of the three types of 17: the mini, the regular, the Pro, and the Pro Max. A few words on the comparisons (quotes are indented)

Battery life:

Over the past week, I re-created my daily routine from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on a mix of 5G and Wi-Fi. Here’s what was left in the tank at bedtime:

• iPhone Air: 19%

• iPhone 17: 27%

• iPhone 17 Pro: 30%

• iPhone 17 Pro Max: 54%

Although the iPhone Air’s battery depleted the quickest, it wasn’t the letdown I had feared. Meanwhile, the 17 Pro Max could have kept on going for another day.

Cameras:  As expected, the two top-of-the-line models took better photos:

••• iPhone 17 Pro and 17 Pro Max

The Pro models add a third lens, a telephoto (now also 48 megapixels) for true optical zoom up to 4x and “optical-quality” up to 8x. Compared with the non-Pros, I saw the biggest difference with videos—they’re more stable and they sound better.

Verdict:

Honestly, if your current phone is going strong and compatible with iOS 26, you might not need to upgrade at all. If it needs longer battery life, a battery replacement might be the best move. Analysts are pointing to 2026 as a potentially bigger year of updates, with a foldable iPhone at the high end. We might also finally see promised AI upgrades, such as a smarter Siri—the real change we’re all waiting for. Apple is lagging behind its Android competition on both fronts.

I know some people change iPhones yearly and cars nearly every other year, but I’m happy with my 13, as I can use my Panasonic Lumix point-and-shoot camera for photos that matter.  My battery power is at 87%, and at the iPhone store they told me not to replace it until it gets to 78%. That will take a while given I’ve had it several years. I take good care of my phones, and won’t replace the one I have until it’s no longer compatible with iPhone software (my previous model was the iPhone 5!). In the meantime, a battery change is way cheaper.

Meanwhile in Dobrzyn, Hili and Andrzej are squabbling over dinner:

Hili: What are we going to eat for dinner today?
Andrzej: Whatever.
Hili: That’s not an acceptable answer.

In Polish:

Hili: Co będziemy dziś jedli na obiad?
Ja: Cokolwiek.
Hili: To nie jest właściwa odpowiedź.

*******************

From Meow:

From The Dodo Pet:

And to complete the cat trifecta, here’s one from Cats That Have Had Enough of Your Shit:

From Masih, a woman breaks the law by singing (just look at the first tweet as I can’t separate them and already posted the second). She’s committed two crimes: singing and walking outdoors without a hijab.

More pushback against Islamic patriarchal theocracy, this time reposted by J. K. Rowling:

A beautiful flower video found by Malcolm:

Two from my feed. First, one on woke language policing:

Sound up a bit on this one. The caption is 100% correct!

One I reposted at The Auschwitz Memorial:

A 12-year-old French Jewish girl was gassed to death as soon as she arrived at the camp.

Jerry Coyne (@evolutionistrue.bsky.social) 2025-09-18T11:21:36.055Z

Two posts from Dr. Cobb. First, how an animal (sea slug) photosynthesizes (see video below the “skeet”):

http://www.cell.com/cell/abstrac…A host organelle (in sea slugs) integrates stolen chloroplasts for animal photosynthesis

Harmit Singh Malik (@harmitmalik.bsky.social) 2025-09-17T17:04:20.110Z

And here’s a YouTube video showing how it works, and this counts as Matthew’s second tweet. The amazing fact in this video is that the algal genome has algal DNA that makes proteins that keep the stolen chloroplasts photosynthesizing (they need proteins):

25 thoughts on “Thursday: Hili dialogue

  1. Even before the Free Press piece was out, Bondi had clarified her remarks to say that she only meant speech that incited violence. This illustrates an issue I have with the right and today’s discourse, though. The Right too easily adopts the language of the left to play tit-for-tat. The Left screams about hate speech and then the Right says, “Oh, look you hate speech, too!” The Right needs to be rejecting the language and the ideas they represent.

  2. Let’s remember that RFKJ was a lifelong Democrat. When he tried to primary Biden, he was declared persona non grata and was drummed out of he party. He then ran as an independent and was polling at about 8%. Trump was very happy to accept RFK’s endorsement and his supporters.

    The Democrats should have allowed a regular primary instead of kicking people like Dean Phillips and RFKJ out of the party because they challenged Biden.

    1. Maybe kicking RFK out of … well.. anywhere is a good idea as he is a crank, a conman, a grifting danger to public health, Lysander?
      Agree you in theory on Dem primaries, but not this his case.
      best,
      D.A.
      NYC

      ps, love the Japanese flowers from massimo and will retweet. Massimo is great but if you follow him he’ll glut your feed!

  3. A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
    A decent provision for the poor is the true test of civilization. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (18 Sep 1709-1784)

    1. Yes, they should not be condemned to starve and freeze in the streets. A system of workhouses would offer decent provision.

  4. Photosynthetic Sea Slugs very cool & thanks for abstract and video – the organelle is a kleptosome, good sciencey humor. The algal to sea slug gene transfer for chloroplast maintenance is also intriguing. Can’t access the full paper, but also from the abstract: “We leveraged this discovery to find that organellar retention and digestion of photosynthetic cargo has convergently evolved in other photosynthetic animals, including corals and anemones”. Looks like a good topic for TWiEVO.
    Flower time lapse delightful, as are the baby goats (kids), and I’m always charmed by cats.
    Women’s rights: Afghanistan repression continues. Since I was “peaked” some time ago, I’ve been following the sex realist/gender critical people closely — La Leche League was trans-captured some time ago — disturbing. There’s a YouTube video from Gender a Wider Lens — featuring Helen Joyce interviewing Marian Tompson, a surviving founder of LLL who recently resigned from the board. “Chest feeding” – bah!
    And another poignant photograph from The Auschwitz Memorial. Those always get to me.

    1. Maybe kicking RFK out of … well.. anywhere is a good idea as he is a crank, a conman, a grifting danger to public health, Lysander?
      Agree you in theory on Dem primaries, but not this his case.
      best,
      D.A.
      NYC

      ps, love the Japanese flowers from massimo and will retweet. Massimo is great but if you follow him he’ll glut your feed!

      1. It’s been a good week. The flowers strongly brought to mind the first colour nature documentary I remember — Disney’s The Living Desert (1953). Even today IMDB rates it 7.4/10, despite the old production technology.

    2. The Le Leche league scandal in England, with the excellent exposee by Helen Joyce (damn I love that woman!) on Gender a Wider Lens was incredible. Just… bonkers.

      best to you Tom,

      D.A.
      NYC

      1. Thanks. Back atcha, as some say in the variable PacN’West.

        Some weeks ago I had sent a private email to our host two local news items (Eugene Weekly and local NPR) featuring men in dresses “trans-women” brandishing firearms and these same extensive stories not — not! — portraying them as dangerous nut cases & the whole thing bonkers. Like it was valorizing the whole thing. And is there a line of that mentality to the Charlie Kirk murder? Is this a rhetorical question? I was not sure if it wold be inflammatory to post:
        https://eugeneweekly.com/2025/06/19/armed-and-fabulous/
        https://www.npr.org/2022/12/15/1140713659/oregons-lgbtq-community-worries-that-a-new-law-will-keep-them-from-obtaining-gun

        Note to Jerry: if this is inappropriate please remove it and accept and apology. I had wanted to bring it to a wider audience. It’s hard to keep sense of proportion and feelings are running high. But when I saw these new items my blood ran cold, like, uh-oh, no good can come of this mentality.

        1. Yes Tom.

          There’s a growing disquiet about the trans “get yer guns” approach. Even though the “genocide” committed on them is in their own heads, a man – and I mean usually a man – with a gun is a serious proposition irrespective of the merits of his argument.
          Ha! I’d argue that the fact he is using a gun at all in a political debate suggests we are dealing with an unreasonable person. (Can’t remember the Seinfeld joke about this, but it is funny. Later….).

          “Trans” has changed in short order, a decade and a half. It started off as a kink for AGP(Autogynephilic) men, and …also… a mental/brain disorder like apotemnophilia (“Cut my legs off!”) – interestingly in the same part of the brain, and equally rare.
          So those two unusual groups.

          THEN.. it warped into a “Civil Rights” cause, (2012-ish, thx Instagram and tumblr!) …boosted by the misguided instincts via liberals like my NYC neighbors and the media (consider “I am Jazz” on ABC).

          the 3rd act:….recently has become a “symptom pool” from which a lot of seriously dismantled nutjobs drink. All kinds of co-morbidities, mainly what’s called “Cluster B” ones: the nasties – psychopathy et al.

          That’s how I see the contours of this amazing social mania I’ve studied up close for 7 years (and actually blew apart my own family eventually, but that’s separate).

          On submissions: In my experience, sometimes I send stuff to the editor which he reposts, other times not, and I can only imagine he has a huge in-box. I never take it personally.
          all the best Tom,

          D.A.
          NYC

          1. DA: I didn’t take it personally badly. I wasn’t asking to repost, it was part of something else, sort of an FYI. (But it was creepily predictive. People need to chill!) Our host been gracious to me & he did put up something cute I sent. Sorry about the family rupture — I hear of these things.

  5. My wife and I share an iPhone 13. It seems to be working just fine. My first generation iPad Pro (released in 2015) is also working fine, but is no longer being supported with security updates. A few apps are no longer compatible either. So, I’ll probably be buying a new one fairly soon. I’ve replaced the battery at least once.

    These devices are amazing and can last quite a long time. Battery replacement services are readily available. My iPad has a physical switch that works intermittently, but I have been able to keep it going with an occasional tiny spritz of contact cleaner.

    Today’s news? Mostly bad.

    1. She was simply my classmate in elementary school. We were both “safety guards” with the white belts and raised and lowered the flag together. I was sweet on her but I think my feelings went unrequited. I sometimes wonder what happened to her. In case for some reason somebody who knows her reads this, we were at Cherrydale Elementary School in Arlington, Virginia.

      1. Ah, another nostalgia blast. Elementary school “crossing guard” with a white Sam Browne belt. AFAIK no coworkers had a crush on me; if they did it went sadly unrequited.

      2. It’s late, don’t know if you’ll see this, I was a safety guard, too! Very proud we all were, 6th grade — posted at a street crossing walk in the winter in Wisconsin. Later they had adults with flags and fluorescent vests, and a lot more traffic, too.

  6. Considering the appalling behavior of Rand Paul and certain other members of the committee in their treatment of the former CDC director, Kaine’s apology surely irked them to no end.

    Regarding other Congressional committee testimony, I can’t stand Kash Patel generally and specifically his imperious imposition of himself in the Kirk murder investigation. (Where has he thusly imposed himself in all murder investigations across the fruited plain?) But, as opposed to wilting like a salted snail, I’m hard-pressed to object to his standing his ground in reaction to the obstreperous (breathtakingly-entitled, narcissistic?) behavior of certain U.S. senators, regardless of political party affiliation. Ah, the most exclusive club on the planet. (Where do they learn this behavior? Or does it just come naturally on account of being a half a chromosome away from a chimpanzee?)

  7. Looking at Filippo’s comment above, I fail to see what was appalling about Rand Paul’s behavior. You decide.

    I recommend watching Rand Paul’s five minutes of questioning the fired CDC director Susan Monarez. (For those abroad who don’t know the Kentucky senator, he is an ophthalmologist who completed his MD and residency at Duke University.) I’ll let others decide whether Ms. Monarez is “holding the line on scientific integrity” on these specific issues. Paul asked her basic empirical questions, the answers to which should have been at the fingertips of any CDC director or her key staff. She had no answers. He did. Anyone here can confirm which, if either, of the two parties was correct.

    The real debate here does not—or at least it should not—reduce to the tribal simplicity of “vaccines good” or “vaccines bad.” Readers from other countries will wonder what all the fuss is about when people in the United States are denounced as “antiscientific” and “antivax” for wanting to bring the US childhood vaccine schedule in line with what many European countries do.

    https://x.com/SenRandPaul/status/1968341174814400653

    1. The real debate here does not—or at least it should not—reduce to the tribal simplicity of “vaccines good” or “vaccines bad.”

      Quite right. The problem is, no matter who you talk to these days, that’s precisely what it does reduce to, including in the US Senate. I don’t agree with many of Dr Paul’s positions (at least the few I know) but in the video you linked, he’s right – as far as he goes. There isn’t positive evidence of certain beneficial outcomes to innoculating 6 month olds with covid vaccine (of course he leaves out the question of other benefits not mentioned…but I’ll leave that there).

      He was only able to do a couple of ‘gotchas’ on Dr Monerez because of limited time but also, really, that’s about all he has. He’s right about those and he’s right about Dr Monerez’ motives (IMO). You may have felt Dr Paul got the better of Dr Monerez there but that’s only because he didn’t really let her respond, did he? He should have, even if he was right.

      It was entertaining though and that’s what this is all about; it’s theater, nothing more.

      1. I am neither cheering for a team nor looking for “gotchas.” Paul’s track record in hearings suggests he would have welcomed data-driven responses from Monarez. She did not provide any. He countered with data. A reasonable course would then be to analyze that data, determine the strength behind it, assess whether strong studies conflict, and determine the gaps in our knowledge. This is especially so regarding gaps in our study of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of this new class of medical intervention.

        Here’s one example: Remember how everyone was told that the lipid nanoparticles stay in your arm near the vaccination site? It turns out that is not true—not even remotely so, unless the ovaries and other organs have relocated since I was dissecting cadavers in my human anatomy days. Spike protein persistence in the body? Who knew? Yet many of my scientifically-literate friends simply assumed that we must have had, prior to vaccine approval, all basic biodistribution and relevant immunological studies. We didn’t. Now we need to figure out the implications of things that we are belatedly learning.

        Paul and I would both be perfectly content with the course I outline. The politicized vaccine cheerleaders, however, who have confused their tribalism with science advocacy are not and would not. They have retreated to slogans, dogma, assumptions, smears, and selective reading. They are becoming like the zealots of the opposite pole whom they oppose. Unfortunately, that process mirrors that of many other cultural flashpoints—and science is the worse for it.

  8. Just as a point of order, it likely is incorrect for the CDC Director to directly contact a congressmen without coordinating through the cdc or hhs congressional liaison office. There is concern in the US government that employees properly and positively represent funded programs and policies to the congressional funders. Of course, Cassidy could have called a hearing and requested her presence as a witness under oath or she could have gone to the CDC or HHS Inspector General (if that position still exists after trump eliminated a bunch of them) and invoked whistle blower status…not a bad idea at that point as I see it.

    At least that is how I remember our NASA policies from twenty or so years ago. I was allowed personal meetings/lunch/dinner with our congressman whom I had known as a friend for many years without any agency liaison red tape, but an official visit was a horse of a different color.

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