The Free Press article (see below) is in fact correct in extolling how great and yet how overly criticized is the music of Billy Joel. I agree with author Eli Lake, though Joel’s music is hardly unrecognized: you can hear it on all the “oldie” radio stations. Right off the bat I can name three all-time classics written and recorded by Joel: “Piano Man,” “Uptown Girl, ” and, my favorite, “Only the Good Die Young”, a work of genius about trying to court a parentally cloistered Catholic girl. In fact, let’s hear that one right now. The words are clever and the tune original and memorable. I’ve put a live video below, but you can also hear the recorded version here.
If you have a subscription to the Free Press, you can read Eli Lake’s anodyne piece by clicking below (it’s not archived), but also hear about the rock greats who consider Joel a genius. I agree. Where Eli Lake goes wrong is his list of other bands that he ranks up there with Joel, and there he’s just dead wrong. He also dismisses bands that were great, like the Eagles.
A few quotes:
Rock music is a fickle thing. There are some artists who will be forever cool like Bob Dylan, Elvis Costello, or Nirvana. And then there are the unapologetic sellouts, the stars that sold a stew of pabulum and clichés to millions of eager sheep. The Eagles or Electric Light Orchestra come to mind. These are the frauds whose insipid compositions inspired a new generation of punk rockers to burn down all that came before them.
“Frauds”? FRAUDS? This is where I began to suspect that Lake doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I agree with the Electric Light Orchestra being pabulum, but The Eagles? Well, this is all about taste, of course, but I’ll claim that several Eagles songs are classics, and these include “Lyin’ Eyes”, “I Can’t Tell You Why“, and “The Boys of Summer” (granted, it’s by Don Henley and not his Eagles, but it’s still a wonderful song about growing older).
Here’s my favorite, “Lyin’ Eyes”, about a woman, married to an uncaring older man, having an adulterous affair.
As for Elvis Costello, meh, and I never got into Nirvana. Now I grant that, as a proportion of total musical output that was great, Joel edges out the Eagles, but dismissing their music as “pabulum” is stupid and ignorant. (I will admit that “Hotel California” is dreadful.)
Anyway, I’ve defended the Eagles, so let’s see what the article says, correctly, about the quality of Joel’s music:
The bard from Hicksville, Long Island [Joel], hated the critics who looked down their noses at him. He used to rip up their reviews onstage and encourage his adoring fans to boo them. And after more than 50 years of taking their slings and arrows Joel has achieved his revenge in a two-part HBO documentary that aired on July 18 and July 25. And So It Goes, named after one of the deep cuts from his 1989 Storm Front album, is littered with interviews from a slew of recording artists universally acknowledged as rock’s gods. And whaddya know, all of them can’t shower enough praise on Billy Joel.
“Billy’s melodies are better than mine,” says Bruce Springsteen. Paul McCartney reveals that Joel’s “Just the Way You Are” is a song he wished he had written.
Most astonishing of all, Nas, one of hip-hop’s titans, couldn’t stop gushing about one of Billy Joel’s schmaltziest hits, “Piano Man,” with its lilting waltz rhythm and poignant sketches of the barflies Joel encountered when he played at a dive bar in Los Angeles. “‘Piano Man’ is a mirror facing a mirror,” the rapper says. “You can just see infinite reflections.”
He’s right. The lyrics of “Piano Man” are sheer poetry.
I will try to find and watch that HBO documentary, though “Just The Way You Are” and “Uptown Girl” are not exactly how Lake later describes Joel’s music:
Great music finds an audience. And Billy Joel found his. He did not invent a new style. He did not pioneer a new recording process or write songs that sparked a revolution. Like so many great writers, he wrote what he knew, which in his case was the angst and heartbreak of middle-class late-20th-century suburban life.
Here Lake is just phoning it in. Does he know that “Uptown Girl” is about Joel’s romances with Christie Brinkley, whom he later married, and Elle MacPherson? That hardly shows “the angst and heartbreak of middle-class suburban life”, for Joel wouldn’t even have had relationships with those lovely women had he not been famous for his music. Yes, in the song he takes on the persona of a “backstreet guy,” but there’s no angst in that song. Nor is there any in “Just the Way You Are,” which, while excellent, is a conventional love song. (Listen to it here.)
I think the Free Press needs a better critic of rock music. Like maybe somebody (unlike Lake) who has spent their life listening to and writing about rock music? I can hear it now ringing across the Free Press Newsroom as Bari Weiss calls: “Hey, Eli, there’s a new HBO special on Billy Joel. Could you write something about it for us?
Music criticism is a waste of time. People like what they like. If a band is successful, and people don’t like their music, that doesn’t mean the music is bad or the people are stupid or the the band is a sell-out. Critics tend to like acts that are outside the mainstream. It makes them feel special. There is nothing wrong with the mainstream, though.
Whenever I see a piece by a music (or film or art) critic, I’m reminded of a saying my father used; “opinions are like arseholes; everyone’s got one”.
I disagree. You can learn stuff from music experts that you might have missed. You may not change your mind, but you can learn. Rick Beato is one example. If you think music criticism is a waste of time, then, according to your reasons that “people like what they like,” ANY type of criticism, including of art and literature, is a waste of time.
I immediately thought of Rick Beato when you said the Free Press needs a different music critic.
100%! Beato is flipping amazing to me. Love that guy. My son turned me on to him.
I also like Fil from Wings of Pegasus. Including his take-downs of people using auto-tune (vomiting emoji).
Those two, Beato and Fil, are by far my favorite music “explainers.”
Good point. I’ve learned a lot from David Fricke as well. He airs “The Writer’s Block” every Thursday on the Spectrum (a Sirius channel) but it might be available on U-tube. Always learn something from him…
OK, I’ve posted enough after this.
Sadly, you may have more work to do. See “Gene editing technology could be used to save species on the brink of extinction” (https://theconversation.com/gene-editing-technology-could-be-used-to-save-species-on-the-brink-of-extinction-261419?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us). The article is a bit skeptical of Colossal Biosciences (small blessing) and mentions “Nature Reviews Biodiversity” (which may not be as naive as it sounds).
I hope this comment does not violate the rules. If it does please delete it.
Did you comment on the wrong post?
Actually, no. I put my comments where I intended them. I was aware that this thread is about music, not Colossal Biosciences. However, I did’t know where else to post my comments. My actual comments about music are below.
My favorite music critic on youtube is Daily Doug, a classical music composer who analyzes rock music from a musicological perspective. He has perfect pitch, so he has an impressive ability to identify notes and keys.
Music criticism is just one person’s opinion. They are free to express it, I don’t have to agree with it, but it’s sometimes interesting to see a band through someone else’s eyes.
I was stunned when my brother-in-laws band reformed for a 30th anniversary tour. The tickets flew out of the box office and they had to add more dates and then do another tour the following year. I thought they were good, and the lead singer has a terrific voice, but I had no idea they had such dedicated fans who would remember them after all these years. They weren’t particularly famous, they had a few hits and toured the USA, but that was a long time ago.
Will you name the band? I’m very curious now.
One musician colleague in the 1990s made a practice of seeing old bands (70s, 60s) who were no longer popular but had kept at it. (He mentioned Molly Hatchet.) He said that they were all great (after touring for decades). He saw them in little bars and similar venues.
Then…
…the reunion…
My b-i-l joined in 87 and played (uncredited) on the second album, and was with them when they reformed in 2016 as there was a 30th anniv rerelease of the first LP. The response was so good they carried on gigging until 2021, selling out many venues.
They even went back into the studio and did a 3rd album, but they were badly ripped off and lost a lot of money so they split again.
I think a new category is necessary :
Neo oldies (new oldies?! 🤨)
… or something…
I mean at some level, everything new now is old.
live music though .. this is I think as new as it can get.
P.S. : PCC(E) get ready, I have a live version of Cry, Baby, Cry performed by Phish to send your way that IMHO might be on par in its own way with the original….
… actually know what, why not I’ll just put it right here and save an email tree :
https://youtu.be/TSfP4kJk3Hw?si=kVdiWh44GRou9An1
… BTW it’s a concert where they do the whole White Album…
I’ve always liked the Electric Light Orchestra, especially their Beatles-sounding stuff. Jeff Lynne’s a good songwriter. Check out “When I was a Boy”, a fairly recent song where Lynne looks back at the old days of his career. I like the melancholy tone. No “pablum” there! Nice video, too. Before Lynne joined ELO, he had a band called The Idle Race where he wrote a lot of “demented” songs in a manner that makes me think of the Syd Barrett era of Pink Floyd, with a bit of psychedelia thrown in.
Billy Joel? Yeah, he has some good songs, but I was never a fan as such. Ditto Elton John, for that matter.
As for The Free Press, I never check out the site. It’s too right-leaning for me.
Don’t forget Jeff Lynne’s work as a producer for other guys! When he was working with Harrison, he was instrumental in forming the Wilburys. PS I love all of ELO, especially “Do Ya.”
+1
I LOVE ELO. Melodic, melancholy (as you say) and unique. I’ve never tired even of their biggest hits.
Terrific video clip. The whole album “The Stranger” was really good as I recall.
Yes: Not one less-than-exceptional track on The Stranger.
Billy Joel’s finest work was undoubtedly his work with Attila.
Oh give me a break writing a whole article to defend a terrific musician like Billy Joel against silly look-down-their-noses critics who think they’re too cool to like anything that popular–and then doing the same thing to bands like the Eagles and ELO. I would’ve thought ELO might have climbed out of the must-pan-them-because-they’re-too-popular aisle once Jeff Lynne became a Traveling Wilbury. Sheesh.
As I like to say those critics (and some persons I know, who will remain unnamed) are so (damned) fisticated that they can’t get their head out of their butt.
(Here come the brick-bats, ducking!) I also don’t understand the worshipping of the blues. I play blues. It’s fun. Yes, it came before and inspired rock music. There are some admirably skilled blues musicians, of course (as in most genres). But this worshipful thing. And so-and-so was great when they played the blues and then it was shit when they played rock (that became vastly more popular). (Fleetwood Mac springs to mind.) Meh. I can listen to about an hour of the blues (or bluegrass) and then I’ve had it.
People that incorporate blues into their repertoire are more interesting to me. David Bromberg is amazing. Roseanne Cash (with her husband, producer, and accompanist John Leventhal; one of the best concerts I’ve ever been to).
Any music that makes you feel good is good.
A scream and a couple of chords can be as enjoyable as any well constructed song.
Definitely. The Black Angel’s Death Song by The Velvet Underground is an example.
The banana is one of my favorite non-Beatles albums of all time.
Love the VU. Very NYC, that whole scene.
D.A.
NYC
My fave artist of all time is David Bowie and he introduced me to the VU when he played ‘Waiting for the Man’ and ‘White Light/White Heat’ when I saw him live. I then got into Lou Reed’s solo stuff as well. When we had to learn ballroom dancing my friend and I discovered that you can cha-cha to Vicious from Transformer. 😂
Now there’s an image!
Rock N Roll Animal is one of the best rock albums ever recorded (IMO). That version of Heroin is just sublime.
@Jim Blilie
Thanks for reminding me. I had to go and play Intro/Sweet Jane again. After all these years, the transition from one to the other still makes me tingle.
Oh, man. Alladin Sane and Diamond Dogs. Some of the most original, complex, great music ever! Like you, David Bowie’s music turned me on to so many other artists I don’t think I’d have come across otherwise.
I’m a musician and a lover of music, so I tend to appreciate anyone who has actual musical skill. The problem with punk is that musically speaking (as opposed to a fashion style or an aesthetic posture) it valorizes the negation of skill, and is thus fundamentally anti-musical.
I’m not particularly interested in Billy Joel, but he has more musical talent in his little finger than the Sex Pistols or the Clash collectively ever developed in their entire lives.
The Clash valorizing the negation of skill? Couldn’t disagree more.
That is definitely a fair description of the genesis of punk, but like most genres it went through several reformations(?), rebirths(?), schisms(?). And so there were, eventually, some punk artists that did not valorize the negation of skill.
An interesting one that resulted in possibly my favorite punk album was a band from the 90s punk scene named Refused. They blended elements of jazz, and a couple of other genres, with hardcore punk on their album The Shape of Punk to Come, said title being a reference to a noted jazz album by Ornette Coleman titled The Shape of Jazz to Come.
A great example from that album, Refused – New Noise. Hold on. It goes hard.
Thanks for the link, that song’s a shredder, has a bit of everything. Love the nonchalant “thank you” at the end.
Cheers, Mark.
Cheers back.
That cheers reminds me, I have to make a “darrell’s Negroni” before Summer’s out…still have the recipe, titled thus, on my cloud and see it once in a while. Killer cocktail…I’ve mixed and matched some of the booze but always stick with that extra fresh orange (muddled).
I’ve always secretly liked Hotel California. Yes, I know its over the top in drama, but it’s so different that I welcome the experiment.
Also Elvis Costello. His early stuff.
I re-visited Electric Light Orchestra. Yes, I agree there that they are a pile of sugary goo, with nothing that I’d choose to listen to. Since that was the last thought I’ve had on this matter, I am not enjoying the ear-worms that I have right now.
Yeah I’m surprised at the criticism of Hotel California. Yeah, it’s been overplayed on the radio, but what a fantastic composition. Complex guitar work, great vocals by Henley, and lyrically clever (my opinion of course). The dual guitar solo at the end was just so different (i know, the Allman Bros did that first and best!).
And an interesting story about its composition. IIRC: Felder comes to a recording session with the main riff (which is a fine riff, rhythmically and chord progression) and Henley and Frey hear it and like it. The go away and come back the next (effing) day with the lyrics complete.
Agreed. Surprised the boss doesn’t like it.
One of my favorites.
D.A.
NYC
Hotel California? Great song, criticized because it’s fashionable to criticize success.
Sorry, but I do not like it because I find it puerile and not very melodic. Do you want to apologize for saying that I am criticizing it because it was successful? If your theory were right, I would be criticizing the hell out of the Beatles. But of course I do not–I think they are fantastic.
I agree completely, can’t stand Hotel California and most of the other Eagles songs – though Boys of Summer is OK. Perhaps one reason the critic called them “frauds” is because that’s how one of them – maybe Henley – described the band in a documentary about them. He said they couldn’t care less about music, they were only in it for the girls and the drugs.
And you don’t recognize that as a throw-away line?
Have you read McCartney’s autobiography? He says the same thing: We wanted to “get girls”. Is McCartney (or the rest of the Beatles) a fraud?
Why are almost all rock bands all young men (at least when they start)? Uh …
ELO speaks to me more deeply than Billy Joel, although I appreciate both. To each his own!
I’m going to listen to Ma-Ma-Ma Belle right now! 🙂
Agreed!
Recently finished watching the HBO Billy Joel documentary, and it’s excellent. Highly recommended. I took the family to see him in concert several years ago, and he did not disappoint. His voice has aged, but he’s still one of the best live performers out there. I was chuffed that afterward my teenage son said that Joel was his favorite artist (still is). As the documentary pointed out, many critics were critical of his stylistic range, accusing him of just chasing hits, when he was actually exploring his musical influences and continuing to challenge himself. Only the Good Die Young is also one of my favorite Billy Joel songs. The lyrics are so well written and it perfectly captures that time of youthful exuberance. I agree with you about the Eagles too.
I saw Billy Joel live shortly after he had some sort of motorcycle accident; he appeared with casts or braces of some sort on his wrists. He and his band blew the flipping roof off that arena.
While I have ten of Joel’s thirteen studio albums, I haven’t listened to him for some time. There is at least one group of whom my listening habits have never changed. I always change the radio station whenever I hear Fleetwood Mac.
Is that a Roolz violation?!
More or less but I will let you get away with it. . .
Then you really should listen to them in the Peter Green era. They were outselling the Beatles and the Stones combined, if that metric means anything.
Eagles Hotel California is great. Just my opinion.
Yep. Love Billy Joel. He doesn’t need to be defended, as he has enough fans to last a lifetime.
It’s fun to watch YouTube videos that analyze pieces of music. Rick Beato’s site is mentioned above. Also excellent are the following:
https://youtube.com/@virginrock?si=-22TQ8MaWPp5rTFW, and
https://youtube.com/@thecharismaticvoice?si=NQ2CLklihUGWcdv9
These two musicians evaluate music they haven’t heard before, breaking down the structure, offering analysis and opinion. I learn from them—even about songs that I’ve listened to and loved for decades. Fun stuff!
My favorite Billy Joel…………”Just the way you are”
I love “Hotel California” and I can play the main riff (though not the solos –fugettaboutit)
Just my view: but I think Piano Man one of the worst songs ever written. Both musically and lyrically it is sentimental, lazy and cliché. To me it sounds like a parody of a song rather than a real one.
I don’t dislike all of Billy Joel’s oeuvre. ‘Uptown Girl’ is fun (although that is parodic too). Overall I’d say he has some feel for melody and a reasonably pleasant and tuneful voice, but is a weak, derivative composer who occasionally perpetrated some really dreadful songs (I think Always a Woman to Me is even worse than Piano Man, if that is possible).
If Only the Good Die Young is derivative, please tell me which rock songs it’s derived from.
+1. Billy Joel knows his rock history; but derivative? Nope.
Pretty much all art is derivative, at least to some degree, as all artists have digested vast amounts of art, and what they produce is therefore more or less derivative. Saying that a piece of art “is” or “is not” derivative is simply a category error (or some similar logical fallacy, depending on various issues).
I have been enjoying the HBO documentary immensely. I learned Billy Joel wrote Piano Man based on his experience playing in a piano bar called the Executive Club for six months while trying to make it in Los Angeles. Although the building is no longer there, it would have been in Brentwood. I love LA lore!
The entire discussion here demonstrates very well what I (and a half a million others) have often said: There are no (longer any) criteria according to which one can judge art, be it music or any other type of expression. (The latest press-grabbing example being the banana duct-taped on a wall.)
Even the comment above, “Any music that makes you feel good is good,” which initially sound sensible enough, one must counter with “who says good music must make you feel good?” Many excellent pieces of art may well make you feel awful, especially if it treats a topic that is unsettling. (Am reading A Clockwork Orange at the moment, which is a perfect example. Brilliant literature by most accounts, but makes you sick to your stomach.)
This is not to say that discussion of art grosso modo is worthless. Not at all. It may be enjoyable, one may learn from it, and it can lead to further thought and art. It just does not generally settle the questions it addresses.
Completely agree that the Eagles are awesome
I saw the Rolling Stones in the 1990s. They were way past their prime. The venue was awful. The price was really high. Suffice to say, that I was not impressed.
Nocturne is an instrumental piece on Joel’s first album Cold Spring Harbor (1971), and here’s a wonderful version with vocals that is not on this album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3tz4Zn-hM