Democrats take note: Elon Musk did NOT give a Hitler salute

January 21, 2025 • 12:00 pm

It’s stuff like this that makes me worry that the Democrats, instead of taking stock of where we went wrong to lose the Presidential election, are simply doubling down on what made us lose. That involved, in part, excessive demonizing of Republicans, including calling them Nazis.  The public (save for blockheads and “progressive” Democrats) is not stupid enough, for example, to really think that Elon Musk was making a Hitler salute when he made a gesture from his heart to the world at Trump’s post-inauguration celebration at the Capital One arena. Here it is. It may be awkward, but even I’m not crazy enough to think he’s paying homage to Hitler or Mussolini.

This video, from CNN, is titled: WATCH: Elon Musk appears to give fascist salute during Trump inauguration celebration

Now watch it:

To anybody not infused with confirmation bias, what he appears to be doing is putting his hand on his heart and then extending it to the audience twice, explicitly saying, “My heart goes out to you.”  And that’s what he’s showing: extending his heart out.  It is not a Nazi salute, nor intended to be one.  Yes, you could hold a dark view that he knew what he was doing, but given that Musk appears to be somewhat “on the spectrum,” I don’t believe this is anything like a fascist or Nazi gesture.

Yet many miscreants say that’s exactly what he’s doing, like this one:

Although they may have realized they went off the rails and quickly qualified their initial assessment:

Someone even predicted in advance that the accusations would come:

The Anti-Defamation League, one of the premier organizations combating anti-Semitism in the U.S., doesn’t take it as a Nazi gessture, and believe me, if they thought it was, they’d call it out:

And sure enough, here are a bunch of headlines to that effect from the German media. The two German words mean “presumptive” and “similar” respectively.

From Al Jazeera:

From the CBC:

AOC of course pulled no punches, calling out the Anti-Defamation League for not recognizing that it was indeed a “Heil Hitler salute”. The woman is bonkers.

From Euro News:

The Atlantic won’t go all the way, but raises the possibility. . . .

A quote from the above:

A lot of people online seem to think he did, based on data from their eyeballs. Freeze-frame images of Musk on social media show the world’s richest man at a podium in Washington, D.C.’s Capital One Arena engaging in what could definitely be construed as a Nazi salute. Video clips of Musk’s speech support this conclusion. Musk stands at the podium, graced with the presidential seal, and thanks the crowd. Then he forcefully slaps his right hand to his chest and rather violently extends his arm outward diagonally to the audience. Multiple historians have backed the idea that Musk’s gesture was indeed a Nazi salute.

The craziness is in Europe, too. From Politico:

Here are other people making “Hitler salutes”, for example Hillary and Kamala. Now you can say that their gestures were different, and didn’t imply approbation of Hitler, but remember what Musk said as he made the gesture: “Thank you for making it happen. My heart goes out to you.”

If you want motion, here is AOC making a dubious gesture:

Now I’m no fan of Musk, though I admire his managerial abilities. But it’s NOT time for Democrats to start losing it over stuff like this, and only one day into the election! There are orders to ponder and litigation to consider.  It’s a waste of time and energy to perseverate over a seemingly innocuous hand gesture. It is not time to resurrect the old Democratic playbook below that wasn’t very effective:

Here’s a frequency graph of those who interpreted this gesture. I’ve added a bit on the left:

h/t: many contributions from Luana, the world’s best collector of tweets and memes.

87 thoughts on “Democrats take note: Elon Musk did NOT give a Hitler salute”

  1. Exactly. Watching the disingenuous hyperbole just made me smug and happier I voted for Trump, as I can’t abide the retarded tactics of the progressive left.

  2. Reminds me of the “The Sixth Sense”. I see… Nazi salutes… They only see what they want to see… 😏

  3. I’m more than a little surprised that AoC was upset, given how anti-semitic she is. After all, wasn’t Hitler an anti-semite, too?

      1. I strongly suspect Ocasio-Cortez’s primary motivation is to discredit the ADL, not Musk. She could have simply badmouthed him for his (perceived) intent, but no, her real outrage is towards those who call for calm heads, those who call out her (actual) racism.

        1. Exactly. Her comment seems to me to be a slam at the ADL for carrying out its mission to protect Jews from discrimination.

  4. It’s unfair to say leftists thought it was an actual Nazi salute. I’m leftist and I believed there was some explanation for his gesture, but I felt the image was metaphorical.

    1. I said PROGRESSIVE leftists, so no, it is not unfair. The explanation for his gesture is simply that it was an awkward expression of his emotions. As you should know from reading here, I am a leftist too, but “progressive” leftists are woke leftists.

      1. What’s the difference between a leftist and a progressive leftist? I thought leftists were progressive by definition, believing that social justice requires a progressively greater role of the state in regulating social and economic behaviour toward the common good. Many on the left like to see themselves as progressives. It’s not a pejorative. A former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada glowingly described it as the most progressive High Court in the world. A woman I once knew said she would date only men who were progressive. (I never asked her what she meant. I changed the subject.)

        I know we’ve been casting about for a word to replace the ugly and ungrammatical “woke”. We did settle on progressive totalitarian, or progressive for short. But this raises questions. Are progressives now just nasty and censorious leftists who differ only in their likability, but not in policy goals, from nicer leftists? Are leftists still identical with progressives in the traditional sense? Or is there policy daylight between them?

        I suggest respectfully as a foreigner that the Democratic Party (and Canada’s Liberals) will have to think about this in practical terms of whom they welcome and whom they shun.

        1. I use progressive as a pejorative adjective when combined with Leftists.I usually put quotation marks around it to show that, but the quotation mark/apostrophe key on my home keyboard is broken.

  5. Based on responses I’ve seen and read from various Dem leaders, they most certainly have NOT learned the important lesson from the election. Rather than asking, “What did we do wrong?”, they have chosen to blame the electorate for being misogynist, homo/transphobic, racist, etc, for embracing Trump. There is precious little introspection by Dems and staunch denial that it might have anything to do with middle America rejecting nonsense such as DEI and gender identity ideology.

    1. “After the uprising of the 17th June
      The Secretary of the Writers Union
      Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
      Stating that the people
      Had forfeited the confidence of the government
      And could win it back only
      By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
      In that case for the government
      To dissolve the people
      And elect another?”

      Bertold Brecht, ‘The Solution’, 1953

  7. I would argue that a real Nazi salute involves a flat hand with “closed” fingers (no spaces between straightened thumb and fingers). It’s akin to the “pointed hand” position people tend to make when diving into water. Musk’s hand looks a bit more like how a hand would look when it’s waving.

    But what was unsettling was the way he thrust his arm out from his splayed hand on his upper chest. THAT is certainly Hitleresque (some comparative videos that people on Twitter and Bluesky made showing Hitler and Musk side by side confirm this). By contrast, if you were to find videos from the images you provided of Obama, Clinton, and Harris, you wouldn’t see this sudden move (from chest to outstretched arm).

    However, Die Zeit seems to think it was a Nazi salute. I know nothing about newspapers in Germany, but according to Wikipedia, Die Zeit is considered a “newspaper of record,” so make of this what you will:

    https://bsky.app/profile/newseye.bsky.social/post/3lgbg2spwu22p

    1. So your contention is that Musk really did tend to imitate Hitler? Why do you suppose he would want to do that? Do you think he admires Hitler and is signaling that he is going to turn Trump’s administration into an authoritarian one that will attack or kill Jews?

      I am just wondering why people are so easily convinced that it was a real Hitler salute rather than a gesture of “I send my heart out to you” from someone who is awkward and, as I suspect, perhaps “on the spectrum.”

      Here is AOC making a real Nazi salute: convincing?

      https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1881800472081891815?t=FFMgxR7tbbctt4Ov3-Bbuw&s=08

      1. Yes, it probably was a “I send my heart out to you” gesture. But Musk remains a suspicious character to me. He’s indicated his support for Germany’s far-right AfD. And it is interesting to note, as a few people on Bluesky and Twitter (I’ll always call it that) have reported, that some American right-wing groups think Musk gave a Nazi salute.

        Anyway, this is a subject that will and ought to die down soon. Let’s keep our focus on First-Felon Trump! By the way, should that take a hyphen? I want to be sure that we use Trump’s special honorific correctly.

        1. What do you mean “probably”? Does Musk have any history whatsoever of being involved with Nazi organizations? And no, being from South Africa does not automatically make him a Nazi.

          There is almost no chance that this is a “Nazi salute”!

          The Democrats who peddle this nonsense and those that lap it up are incredibly dense. There are plenty of things to criticize about the incoming Trump admin without chasing the shiny objects that the news media is dangling in front of you.

          2. @ChasCPeterson

            So nothing. Nazism is principally a belief in racial purity and a hierarchy of races…there is nothing in what you linked that proves that Elon subscribes to such nonsense. “The closest thing to Nazis that Germany has got…”…what piffle. Are they actually that close to Nazis? And does he support everything they stand for, or just certain issues? Kind of the way that many of us on this very site support Trump’s rollback of DEI, even though we may disagree with most of what Trump stands for.

            What you are doing is not unlike claiming that any politician that supports Palestine’s movement for statehood is also a Nazi, because Hamas. One state solution…must be a Nazi. That would make most of the far left wing of the Democratic party Nazis. Such a half-witted analysis would leave no room for the notion that some people may favor certain initiatives of the Palestinians without signing on for the most radical and violent expression of it (Hamas).

          3. You can judge for yourself how close the AfD is to whatever definition of Nazism you prefer. The article I linked is pretty much all I know about it. (Their anti-immigration rhetoric carries a strong whiff of racism to me but ymmv). As far as I know Musk has not parsed his strong and vocal support by issue.
            But OK, I’ll concede your very important point: Musk has not publicly supported any literal Nazi organizations.
            Your second paragraph is a non-sequitor throughout.

        2. Musk is very against the unbridled immigration (much of it illegal) to the West. That’s why he supports AfD.

          This is the fault of the crazed left, who won’t do anything about it.

          I’ve never heard of him having Nazi sympathies.

          1. He’s got AfD sympathies and some of the AfD seem to have Nazi sympathies. That’s baggage.

          2. If he didn’t notice that the AfD is widely considered extreme-right with at least one foot in Nazi territory before writing a glowing endorsement and chatting with their leader, he’s an even bigger moron than I thought.

    2. “a real Nazi salute involves a flat hand with “closed” fingers (no spaces between straightened thumb and fingers).”
      But that is exactly what he does in the first, more emphatic gesture (to my eye). The second time, after turning around, is a bit more lackadaisical.
      Neither gesture is what I would do to signal ‘my heart goes out to you’ (which he only says afterwards, and while making a different gesture). My palm would be up and hand open. That’s a gesture of giving.
      So to me it’s not so cut and dried. I do not claim to know what’s in Musk’s heart. But that gesture was very emphatic and very, very strange in this modern world. Call me a blockhead if you want to. Or (what has apparently become an even worse insult around here) a “progressive Democrat”. Ouch.

        1. Our host already posted those cherry-picked freeze-frames. Show me video of the actual gestures being made and then I could interpret them as I can Musk’s.

      2. Musk supports AfD because they’re the only party to openly oppose the continuing illegal immigration to Europe.

    3. Barry, consider also that Elon is like a little boy and jumped up and down on stage during the election. His mannerisms are’t scripted. He’s not malevolent. He’s eccentric, easy to read and predict, and exuberant.

      1. “There is no reason on earth why Musk would make such a gesture.”
        Yes, there is. It’s called “shifting the Overton window” and “normalizing extremism.” You do something provocative with some plausible deniability, and then the interpretation shifts from “it was a my-heart-goes-out-to-you gesture” to “it was a just a Roman salute”, and in a year everyone thinks it’s normal to hail Trump as if he were an emperor.
        Y’all are really naïve if you assign any benign motives to Musk. The man is a living, breathing Bond villain.

  10. I’m independent, but have always been something of a blue dog D in terms of my voting record. I voted for Biden in 2020 as an explicit vote against Trump. But DEI and gender ideology over the past few years has pushed me away from the Democrat party, and this just serves to confirm that decision.

    Anyone with even less than half a brain knows that this was not a nazi salute, and the gaslighting by those in the D party and in the media to try to make it seem like one is pathetic.

    I agree that AOC is more progressive left, but she’s been trying to make herself more central to gain wider popularity for a higher office run. Also, PBS, The Atlantic, NYT, Reuters, and others have all run stories on this stupidity, so I disagree with the claim that strictly progressive leftists are the only ones pushing the story. Side note: progressive leftists are OK with college students spray painting “fuck the Jews” and dumping red paint on statues and in favor of leaflets celebrating 10/7 showing Hamas terrorists riding in on paragliders to kill Israeli kids, but clutch their pearls when someone raises their hand in a certain manner? As our ex-prez said, “C’mon man!”

    The reporting is done in a curious manner too: WE’RE not saying it exactly, but SOME PEOPLE say (or EXPERTS SAY) it was a NAZI SALUTE. They’re still running the story and linking Musk and nazi in the same breath, so it’s subtle but the intent is the same.

    I’d love to tell these people, “Grow up.”

  11. I don’t think he’s either a nazi or an idiot, pace James O’Brien. He’s someone who grew up as a socially awkward, physically unconfident boy, and when such people suddenly find themselves pumped up with emotion in front of an adoring crowd the physical awkwardness and lack of social grace doesn’t magically go away. They haven’t (yet) schooled themselves in how to control their gestures and body language in a way that’s appropriate to the situation, but instead just let the emotion run away with them. I don’t see anything more going on here than that.

    1. I think this is the best explanation I’ve seen on the thread. The fact that people are so willing to say it was really fealty towards Nazis and Hitler shows me what the ADL says: people are on edge and, as I think, all to willing to impute evil motivations to their opponents, even calling them Hitler.

    2. And I wouldn’t want him to change a thing. It’s nice to have a few people out there who aren’t playing poker face every time they are in public. No reason for Musk to learn to control enthusiastic gestures of happiness, victory, and support.

  12. Dr, Coyne, I was responding to your comment that it didn’t look anything like a fascist or Nazi gesture. Nothing more or less. (This was meant to follow Dr. Coyne’s reply to my first remark. Apologies for screwing this up.)

    1. I didn’t say it didn’t look anything like a fascist or a Nazi gesture. I said it not anything like a fascist or Nazi gesture.” In other words, it wasn’t intended to be one.
      That’s enough.

      “

  13. If it was an intentional Nazi salute, it’s just as likely he was trolling the Left to get this very predictable reaction as it was a signal to his fascist followers. They’re all in on the joke and are now having their laugh.

    It’s (plausibly, IMHO) social media culture brought into the real world.

    2. I fully agree. Actually, I think his gesture was meant to be ambiguous: trolling the left and dogwhistling to some far-right groups.

  14. I get your point – it wouldn’t be as tempting a conclusion if he wasn’t speaking in support of a man who has pardoned Oathkeepers and Proud Boys who have committed violence in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election.

    I know Musk is awkward as hell and it could be as simple as that, but I see a lot of the actions of the last few days as boundary testing. That would be a possible motive – how much support do we have, where is it, and how much can we get away with? If it was Trump himself rather than Musk, I could also put it in the “all publicity is good publicity” camp. If you can drive the folks on the other side crazy so that your folks see them as even more extreme, it is not a bad strategy.

    Who knows where the truth lies?

    1. I go with the anti-Defamation League: it was an awkward gesture. Watch Musk dancing around on stage before he made this remark to see the awkwardness. No, we don’t know for sure that Musk wasn’t making a Hitler gesture, but at a time like this I think it’s important not to impute the worst possible motives to our political opponents and say they are Nazis. And anybody saying that I’m condoning a deliberate Nazi salute on this site had best go elsewhere. I’m a cultural Jew, for chrissake.

      Read this and then go after the ADL: https://x.com/ADL/status/1881474892022919403

  15. So millions of people (mostly on the progressive left) are speculating about whether one man made a gesture as a deliberate pro-fascist antisemitic signal (and apparently not a very secretive one) or whether this was merely accidental and exuberant while at the same time millions of actual and very clear antisemitic gestures, signals, signs, shouts, declarations are being made daily (mostly from the progressive left) without approbation from these same people. Give me a break.

  16. It forced at least some right-wingers onto the defensive to explain away the salute and I’m guessing that was the intent.
    Instead the right should lean into it, not try to defend anything, and just mock the people making the claim. After all the right is resurgent across the western world, it’s the left that’s on the back foot. Given there appears to be no end to this kind of nonsense I predict the right will come to dominate over the next few years.

  17. Yep.

    I also read about the Roman salute, which seems most accurate.

    One might look it up.

    It might have been in a movie as well, I don’t know.

    1. Apparently, use of this salute in Imperial Rome is apochryphal. 20th-Century Italian fascists may have thought otherwise. In any case, I’m pretty sure they weren’t trying to say “my heart goes out to you”.

      To be honest, what I thought of on first seeing the video was the Star Trek mirror-universe Enterprise. But I’m a nerd

  18. Do you all think (as I occasionally do) that all this Hitler/Nazi obsession is because most people in our countr(ies) don’t actually have any knowledge of history other than “Nazi are bad”?

    Recent public simping for Palestine suggest a wider ignorance.
    Young people’s misunderstandings of American history, slavery as a thing, other countries are terrible.

    I’m often horrified by the general ignorance of science and history in public questionnaires. And I surround myself with educated people.

    D.A.
    NYC/Florida
    ps – apologies…I’m commenting like a loudmouth today!

    1. “Do you all think (as I occasionally do) that all this Hitler/Nazi obsession is because most people in our countr(ies) don’t actually have any knowledge of history other than “Nazi are bad”?”

      Yes – especially all the movies – that makes it too easy IMHO.

      I got Mein Kampf and Hitler’s Table Talk only recently. It is astonishing how articulate and wide-ranging Hitler’s thought was.

      Nothing like I thought – which was a blockheaded unintelligent blathering bully.

      But even that I was averse to reading because “Nazis bad!”.

    2. To David Anderson: No need to apologize.
      To Bryan:. I agree. Nazis are bad but Hitler got a whole country to follow him. It is better to not wear blinders when thinking about history.

  19. Yes. I’ve watched the rapid spread of this nonsense—almost every news outlet. Are they really news outlets or are they propaganda factories? This kind of crap truly pi**es me off. And AOC criticizing the ADL for defending Musk is beyond the pale. Playing the Hitler card didn’t help Kamala Harris win the election, and it won’t help here.

  20. I could care less. I already know that Musk:
    1. In response to this on X “Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.” wrote “You have said the actual truth.”
    2. Said, on X, “And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism”

    These comments I believe are still up on X for all to see (at least the second one is I cut an pasted from it).

    And many more like this. I don’t need to interpret a “did he or didn’t he?” question to know that Musk has such alt-right leanings.

      1. You misunderstood my meaning Jerry. I apologize for not being clear. I don’t care (personally) because questions like this are always ones that come with plausible denialibity. Maybe he didn’t do it at all. Maybe he did but only to be “edgy” and get people worked up. I think going after him for this regardless of what his intentions were will always backfire on those that do because we don’t know and can’t prove anything one way or another. However we do know very clearly that Musk most certainly holds viewpoints consistent with someone who at least might think throwing such a salute to rile up the left or wink to Alt-Righters or simply to be amusing is perfectly fine. That’s not really debatable at this point. Those where the points I was trying to make

    2. Per https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-auschwitz-musk-says-social-media-free-speech-would-have-prevented-extermination/ , Musk later apologized for repeating and endorsing the post, calling it a “dumb” action.

      He seemed to genuinely be naive (as he himself claimed) about antisemitism, and given the depth of his personal involvement in his various ventures, I’d be inclined to believe.

      Confirmation bias being what it is, some people are going to see this as more evidence of Republicans being literal nazis. It’s a joke amongst the rest of us (you know who else did xxx – Hitler did!).

      It’s obvious if you just look at him as a real human being, not some depersonalized symbol of a group that you’ve been conditioned to hate, that he was not expressing nazi sympathies and he was not trolling. He seemed genuinely happy, and that’s how he moved his hand from his heart to the crowd. Was it stupid? My opinion is no – just because someone else made some gesture doesn’t mean they own it. If he stood there and saluted Trump in a solemn manner with a single arm salute, then that’s a different story. But jeez, people, grow up.

    3. So let’s explain what this sort of comment is getting at:

      “And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism”

      Prior to the Oct 7th attack, the ADL (and similar groups) had bought into the “critical race theory” idea that whites are uniquely bad and that whites are all “oppressors”. The ADL had a definition of “racism” on its website under which only whites could be racist.

      In saying that, they viewed Jews as “non-white” and as one of the non-white groups that whites had oppressed, which is understandable given history.

      Post Oct 7th, many Jews who thought along those lines have had a rather rude awakening to the fact that most “non-whites” view Jews as being “white” and as being “oppressors” and “settler colonialists”. Many have rapidly re-thought their previous buying into CRT and related notions such as DEI etc (Bill Ackman is a notable who wrote a long Tweet along these lines). And the ADL now has a new and different definition of “racism”!

      What Musk’s Tweets were doing (noting that they were prior to Oct 7th) was criticising the buying into CRT by the ADL and others. Thus they are not at all “anti-Semitic”, they are anti woke and anti CRT and anti DEI, notions that some Jewish organisations had been promoting (the ADL and Soros’s Open Society foundation being examples).

      So, no they do not indicate “alt-right” sympathies, they indicate sensible, centrist opposition to some far-left ideologies (and, again, plenty of Jews, particularly since the fall-out from Oct 7th, agree with him).

  21. I’ve seen arguments that it was a Roman salute (touch heart, stretch arm) which, while modified and appropriated by the Nazis, was also routinely used in American elementary schools for the Pledge of Allegiance. Perhaps a nod to old fashioned patriotism?

    Naw, I think that’s overthinking it. My theory which is mine is that the gesture was instead an enthusiastic combination of “I LOVE you guys!” and “To Infinity — AND BEYOND!!!”

    That last bit sure sounds like something Musk would want to say.

  22. I do think it was Nazi-like, especially in the manner of how it was done (that being very important). But Musk is socially awkward, derpy as the youngsters say, and so it’s a Meh, for me.
    This will pass.
    Those pictures of democratic leaders with the same sort of gesture don’t really mean anything. It’s all in how you do it. Simply raising your arm like that generally means “I acknowledge you. Hello.”

    I remember years ago that there a lot of news about a group of middle school boys who were standing for a group picture. One kid, being a smart-ass as 50% of them are, thru the salute and then a bunch of other kids did so too.
    The resulting picture went viral, with headlines showing these blond boys being all Hitler-youthy and the far lefties went berserk. With you-know-who joining in. It was dumb.

    The far left liberals commit own goals like this on a regular basis, and so once again I roll my eyes in their general direction.

    1. I’m liking the Roman salute interpretation a lot better now. And it’s still pretty derpy.

  24. “He’s just an excitable boy” but if he starts biting the usherett’s leg THEN you’ll know you’re in trouble.
    Warren Zevon

  25. I use this “salute” interpretation as another filter of what not to waste my time on. If anyone or any news outlet interprets this as a Nazi salute, then I don’t waste my time on them. Simple.

  26. More Nazi nonsense? Ah, yes, that proved successful.

    It’s early, but I hear faint sounds of “Hail to the Chief” introducing a certain President Vance.

  27. I will grant you that Musk was most likely not making a Nazi salute, but I think those of us who saw the story and believed it can be forgiven for jumping to conclusions (we all do it). I am not of the far left–I hate the woke left as well as MAGA. But Musk has liked stuff from the far, far right on his platform. He has encouraged the far right under the banner of free speech. I am pretty much an absolutist on free speech, and I don’t care what Musk does with his platform. But he does encourage the far right, just as Trump does. No, we shouldn’t go around calling our political opponents Nazis. But Trump and by association Musk believe that a fair portion of the American people (including people like me and many of those who comment on this site) aren’t real Americans and are enemies of true Americans (that is, Trump supporters). So, yes, we should keep to the high ground and not assume the worst of our political opponents. But don’t think for a minute that Trump is going to reciprocate; if he can figure a way to demonize us, terrorize us, and maybe even get rid of us, he will do it.

    1. It does not matter if Trump does not reciprocate. When they go low, we go high. And that is the way it has to be if the Democrats are going to resume power. But they also have to stop demonizing all Repubicans and anybody in the Trump administration. And they have to stop being elitist, woke, and being patronizing to working Americans.

      This fracas over whether Musk made a Trump salute, and those people here who insist that he did, just convinces me that many Democrats are still rife with confirmation bias, see all their opponents as Nazis, and are so mad that Trump is in office that they will believe almost anything, however horrible, of anybody associated with him. That is not an attitude that is going to help Democrats.

      As for those who persist in haranguing me to go hard on Trump, I have explained why I do not do that: many others do (and I share their opinions), but my own interest is in cleaning up the Democratic party. If you call me a Trump supporter or enabler because of this, you had better haunt some other website. I am not speaking to you personally, just in general.

  28. I doubt very much that it was a Nazi salute or that Musk or Trump are fascists. However there is a small but not insignificant number of Trump followers who are and are elated in the belief that it was. Trump and Musk should strongly and unambiguously disavow any association with fascism. Trump has disavowed it, but the times I have seen him do so, the disavowals were weak and ambiguous. Why? I believe it’s because Trump is an opportunist who will leave any potential door to power open. I believe his actions after the 2020 election support that view.

    Here’s a well known quote from Mike Pence:

    “I think it’s important that the American people know what happened in the days before January 6, President Trump demanded that I use my authority as vice president presiding over the count of the Electoral College to essentially overturn the election by returning or literally rejecting votes. I had no authority to do that.”

    Had Pence gone along and succeeded it would have amounted to an overthrow of our democracy. Does anybody really believe that Trump would not have gone along with it. I don’t. And had Pence tried and failed does anybody believe that Trump would have taken responsibility? I don’t. He would have let Pence take the fall with the claim it was all a joke – he never thought Pence would actually try it.

    Trump is an opportunist but one smart enough to always maintain plausible deniability.

    When the January 6 insurrection happened does it really matter that Pelosi didn’t authorize the national guard troops. Maybe she should have maybe not. But Trump could easily have calmed the crowd down and stopped the whole thing. But he didn’t. In fact he set up the conditions for it with his endless unevidenced assertions of voter fraud. Why did he not stop the insurrection when he clearly could have? I believe he wanted to see if it could keep him in power.

    And now he has pardoned the insurrectionists for the clearly and egregiously illegal acts. This is a clear and unambiguous message that any action in support of him will be allowed.

  29. Sorry Jerry, but you are not right this time. James O’brian summed it perfectly, either he is really estupid or he is doing a Nazi salute. I am not in his mind, so I wouldn’t know which, but I would bet that he is not stupid. Possibly being on the spectrum doesn’t make him less intelligent or knowledegeable
    about what a nazi salute is.

    Also, the “evidence” you show about other politicians making a something apparently equal doesn’t mean nothing, nothing at all. I would have to watch the video action of all this other salutes, but let’s asume they are doing the same thing. Still doesn’t matter. A series of people being as stupid or nazi as him doesn’t make him less stupid or nazi. I don’t even understand or are able to imagine what your thought procces about this could be.

    And for the comments, in general, you could show a wide range of hipotesis about what he was really doing, from the roman salute to giving his heart. You still would have to support them with evidence for them to be relevant. As they are, they counter in no measure the notion that he is either doing a nazi salute or is really stupid.

    1. Sorry but i reject your comments. Another hypothesis is that he is just awkward, which is supported by the awkward dance he made right before he gave the talk that included this gesture. You fail to consider awkwardness or thoughtlessness as hypotheses, so bent you are in thinking that this is a Nazi salute.

      My thought processes are evident: the guy is awkward (based on his behavior, I have long thought he was a tad autistic, which could contribute to social awkwardness), which is supported by his dance. He also has no reason to make a Nazi salute.

      As far as you not imagining what my thought processes could be, that is bloody rude, and violates the rules. But I know just the website where you should be posting, where everyone automatically believes this is a straight up Hitler salute. I suggest you frequent that site.

  30. Did her or did he not — geez!! it’s just smug exuberance, almost certainly, some of it will be on display in the comments here, yeah, whatever, dudes & dudettes (but see here, a binary, for sure.)

    I saw the memes and I was, like, no, but oh hey, nothing like a tribalistic response, as noted above.

    So it’s depressing, and pox on whole segments of society, eh? We’ll have that soon enough with the “medical” cranks that will be in charge of NIH, CDC, HHS.

    I do credit this site with some eye-opening information re trans-madness, and what you call woke generally, ideological capture of science. That’s the worst of it, folly on the side one hopes to trust.

    I’ve been binging on Helen Joyce interviews on YouTube. Egad she’s great! “Barking madness”, what a wonderful phrase. She has pointed comments on the tribal polarization of American politics & capture of good organizations by trans. (Dems sure stepped on their lady-dicks.) I’ll buy her book, order it from a hip bookstore here.

    I do like the wildlife photos. Enjoy it while we can, it’s all on the table. I guess it doesn’t matter anyway.

  31. I tried to imitate this gesture in the spirit of “my heart goes out to you”. I would have the palm of my hand facing the audience and not downwards.
    So I think that this was an intentional provocation by E.M.

  32. So I might be cynical and suggest that the MSM is desperately trying to blow this up to be the focus of the inauguration.

    Whatever happens the rabble must not look at the restoration of women rights and the disgraceful identity politics binned and the return of meritocracy.

    Give the people some nonsense and everyone becomes Hitler salute experts.

    X is becoming hilarious. Lots of people are saying that they accidentally have done a salute to grab some stuff of the top shelf and are now fascists.

  33. It’s not just progressive democrats who interpret it as a nazi salute. Some right wingers are loving it https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-salute-reaction-right-wing-extremists-1235241866/ and https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-like-salutes-trumps-inauguration/. Maybe they are just seeing it as an opportunity to troll libtards, but at least some genuinely seem to have seen what progressive democrats saw. My prediction is that this not-quite-nazi-salute will be seen more and more often. And by the way, the still photos of various liberals with arms extended are an unconvincing comparison to the vigorous salute given by Musk

  34. I am closing comments on this page because I need to make dinner and cannot keep up with new ones coming in. There is a clear dichotomy of opinion, and it has convinced me that many people are so riled up by Trump gaining office that they will believe anything, even Hitlerish things, about people associated with his administration. That is my conclusion and you may disagree. But I do not need the tsouris of what I see as an arrantly obtuse attitude. I need dinner instead.

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