83 thoughts on “Are there two Joe Bidens?”

  1. I read someplace that he had a cold, hence the raspy voice and slow demeanor.

    L

    1. That cold sure got better quickly. I think he was trying too hard last night. But I’ve seen him act wonky in non-pressure situations, so I’m not convinced that he’s lacking any cognitive impairment. And see Woolley’s comment below.

    2. Joy Reid suggested it was because he was on the right-side (stage right) of the stage.

        1. Mr. Biden obviously won the debate or at least is was a draw, once you consider that he had a cold, was on the wrong side of the stage, has a stutter, and was put off balance by Trump’s debating technique. Plus, he answered every question. Trump had many lies and stretched the truth, plus he meanly said that Biden couldn’t hit a golf ball 50 yards, so it’s obvious that Biden should be leading this country.

  2. I don’t think there’s any mystery about this. Like most people in cognitive decline, he has good days and bad days. Unfortunately, when you’re president of the United States, you can’t have bad days.

    (Also, there’s a good chance that earlier in the day is better for him, and teleprompters help–both factors not in his favor at the debate.)

    1. I completely agree. Heck, I’m only 61 and still working so the debate was past my bedtime and I recorded it for viewing this morning. Unfortunately, it was a debacle and definitely a bad start to the day. If I watched it last night though, I probably wouldn’t have been able to sleep.

  3. Jerry, it’s because he is in cognitive decline. Anyone who has had a single relative who’s gone through it can see it. Sometimes depending on the dementia, it might be a fairly straight decline. Other times they might stay steady then drop off a cliff. Or, during any such stage, there can be good days and bad days, or even good ten minutes and bad ten minutes. Nobody who spends any real time with him can fail to have known his condition for months if not the last couple of years. The people around him, the closest advisors, are the ones most at fault. But the ones slightly farther out who can talk directly to those close advisors—they are just as much to blame for not forcing the issue well before the primary season.

    1. Thank you. There’s also the phenomenon called sundowning, where someone with dementia may appear quite normal in the morning and decline rapidly in the late evening. And there is denial, “Of course I can still drive; why would you want to take my keys away?” Or they don’t remember that they last owned a car twenty years ago and want to know where it’s parked. Dementia does not get better. The politicians surrounding Biden, for whatever their motives, have done us all a great disservice.

    3. Cognitive decline? I’m not sure about that. Notice that Trump NEVER has any good days. He can always be expected to go off the rails and ramble. (I’m not referring specifically to his lies; that’s another matter). As for Biden, maybe 9:00 pm is past his bedtime. Maybe.

      I also think that these straight-jacketed debate formats just don’t work for Biden. And, yes, I have no doubt that Biden was over-prepared last night, with too much stuff in his head that his handlers insisted he needed to say. Eff the debate—and probably any future debate. Biden was in his element here, and I suspect he can sound and come across like this at every speech he gives during the next four months.

  4. Teleprompter?

    And after 9pm is bed time.

    Cognitive decline is not a steady state.

  5. Sure. Nervous. Fifty-one years in elected office. Or it’s the beginning of the day vs. the end of the day; he’s got a prepared speech (with all the appropriate cues marked); and he’s had his meds. Last night was typical for President Biden, and it wasn’t a surprise. There are good days and bad days, but the good days will be fewer and fewer.

  6. I had a bad job/promotion interview once. It was like I was sitting above the scene watching this train wreck of a stumbling, tentative, unprepared me. Never had happened before. Never happened again. People on the review committee who knew me were taken aback, maybe even stunned. But it happened. And it was not age; I was only fifty or fifty-one at the time.

    I remarked on this site a couple of weeks ago that recently Biden gave what I described and still believe to be a wonderful and powerful Churchillesque speech at Normandy.

    I still believe…no, stronger, I know…Joe Biden is extremely qualified for the job and I have zero reluctance to vote for him. That is not an endorsement of all of his policy leanings, but is an endorsement of his ability to fairly develop policy positions.

  7. It seems that the comedians are providing the most succinct analysis. Here’s Jon Stewart.

    1. Thank you for this. Regardless of the seriousness of the implications (of these 2 being our choices), Jon Stewart made me laugh with this like I haven’t laughed in months. His ending was a little overly dramatic but the clips were effing funny as sh*t.

  9. Two Bidens. The question is which one chairs the National Security Council at 2 am after either a Russian tactical nuclear strike or when China invades Taiwan. Which one presides over a 21st century “Thirteen Days”?

    To those who claim that they have utmost confidence in the man, I’m curious whether your confidence would be so certain if one Donald J. Trump were not on the ballot.

    1. Doesn’t matter. If Biden and Trump are on the ballot in November, there is a clear choice. And — as opposed to the other camp — Biden would have much more competent people backing him up.

          1. What are they doing to Ukraine? Helping it fight against a Russian war of aggression?

      2. Because of him relying on these “competent” people, Europeans are being slaughtered and European cities are being turned to ruble.

        3. You mean Russians are slaughtering Ukrainians and turning Ukrainian cities into rubble.

  10. What he had to do yesterday was highly cognitively demanding. What he did today wasn’t. And he was never a highly intellectual person to begin with and prone to gaffes. Joking was always his strong point.
    I don’t think he wrote his speech in Normandy (rarely have presidents written such speeches themselves). Obviously, he competently delivered it (discounting the speech problems he has had all his life), which is quite a feat as he apparently wasn’t using a teleprompter.
    I’ve said it before, I think he has early stage Parkinson’s disease, which does entail a cognitive decline, but not necessarily a grave one. He is sane and probably only slightly cognitively impaired. But he shouldn’t be running for president now.
    I find the jokes about his facial expression quite distasteful.

  11. At this point I would have preferred a younger, more dynamic speaker who could do the kind of beneficial things that Biden has actually done — despite the full-throttle opposition of a Republican Party that has been captured by a narcissistic demagogue.

    But if Biden is on the ballot in November as the official Democratic nominee, I will not hesitate to vote for him. As Joe said, Trump is a one-man crimewave, a clear danger to democracy and the rule of law.

    Even if Joe Biden is in decline, with good and bad days, he still towers over the other guy hands down.

    Below is a PBS News Hour link to the full speech that he gave today in North Carolina. The 32-minute recording begins with Jill Biden giving a very inspiring introduction. She’s followed by the personal testimony of another public school educator, Eric Fitts.

    Joe himself begins at about the 8-minute mark:

    1. I have to disagree with you, Jon. On the world stage (never mind at home) such fragility and inconsistency puts our country at risk. He (Biden) has been shuffling and bumbling about for all the world to see and they are taking notes. Do you think that Biden “towers over the other guy” in the international arena? I don’t. (I did vote for Biden in 2020)

      1. Biden towers over Trump regarding truthfulness, the rule of law, and actual accomplishment. That there are uninformed and/or ideologically blinkered people who don’t see that is not his fault. Did you watch his speech in North Carolina?

        If you think there should be an alternative nominee, read Robert Reich at the link I posted elsewhere here. It’s a difficult path forward for Democrats whichever way they go.

        1. I should add the comments of historian Heather Cox Richardson:

          “This was not a debate. It was Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them.

          “It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective.”

          Heather Cox Richardson’s full comments:
          https://substack.com/home/post/p-146071921

        2. Ok, Jon. I’ll read Reich’s article and post my reaction to it. Yes, I watched the NC speech. I won’t repeat my earlier comments that still stand (fragility and inconsistency). I’m a slow reader… hope will stay up late as you usually do (smile)
          You’re not, I hope, considering me to be “uninformed and/or ideologically blinkered” (whatever “blinkered” means)…

          1. I didn’t read someone else’s (Heather Cox Richardson’s) comments on someone else’s (Richard Reich’s) article. I’m not a kool aid drinker who needs to have my opinions buffeted by the echo chamber. Where does it end? What I say to Reich’s article is that it’s a crying shame for the Democratic Party to be so beleaguered that it must continually resort to lesser evils as solutions. I am not as passionately wedded to the Democratic Party as you are, Jon. I know how strongly you feel about Trump. I’m sorry that you feel our system of government cannot withstand him. IF, he were to prevail. I’m not so sure he would.

          2. Kool aid? Echo chamber? Wow, I am surprised, Debi. Oh well.

            By the way, “blinkered” in my use comes from the dark shades put on horse’s eyes so that they will not respond to activities at their sides.

    2. Thanks for posting that video.

      President Biden was speaking speedily. The speed meant I had trouble keeping up. When President Biden was speaking about abortion, could you clarify for me what he said at 18:23-18:28, as I couldn’t keep up with the speed of his speech?

      Thanks.

        1. That wasn’t stuttering. Have you ever heard people stutter? They don’t sound like that.

          Name one person who stutters who sounds like that.

  12. No, wishful thinking, I’m afraid… Biden is just hurling abuse and boasting to a supportive crowd. Is that what you want from your president? Trump does that sort of think rather better. Give up on him before it’s too late.

    1. When the crowd begins to shout “Lock him up!” (referencing Trump and his “Lock her up” rhetoric), Biden encourages people to calm down. That’s certainly not what Trump likes to do.

      Pointing out facts in a passionate way is not “hurling abuse.” And actual accomplishments are worthy of boasts, as opposed to the outright lies of Trump.

      1. So he’s a nicer person than Trump. That’s not hard; but surely you have someone among your population of 333m who can do more than please a welcoming crowd? If you don’t find that someone, you’re facing a massive defeat and 4 more years of Trump

        1. I was responding specifically to your comment about Biden “hurling abuse” and “boasting to a supportive crowd.” That suggests you’ve never been a Biden supporter. (Quite the opposite.) So I’m suspicious of your intentions.

          You might be right that Trump could win if Biden remains the Democratic nominee. But you also could be wrong.

          In any case, Biden stepping aside now would not guarantee a win, either, and it would be an incredibly difficult course for Democrats to steer, as Robert Reich notes:
          https://robertreich.substack.com/p/what-do-democrats-and-all-sane-people

          Also, Biden is not only “nicer,” he’s also way more truthful and accomplished.

          1. I don’t live in the States but it’s true: I’ve never thought much of Biden. I’m merely hoping that the Democrats proffer an electable candidate to defeat Trump.

            I receive Reich’s newsletter so read his view that Biden is the only practicable candidate. It made me despair.

      2. Hey, Jon. I’m trying to catch up to you today (this isn’t the correct spot but the other tagline dead ended). I apologize for my snark yesterday. Typically, when I disagree with what people write I just stay out of it. I’m not sure what possessed me to pursue it, yesterday. Disagreeing is not the problem, though. It’s the language that I used. It wasn’t necessary and I’m sorry. I don’t know what got ahold of me. You’re always fair and kind with everyone and are the last person I’d want to direct that at. I don’t want to talk like that, period. 🏳️

  13. A lot of the comments I read here remind me of 2016 – sow some doubt, what about here emails? Et cetera….

    I wonder how many Russian bots have contributed today?

    1. Kevin, I bet we could find 50 former intelligence agents to say that the people pointing out the obvious in these comments are Russian bots.

      Interesting the focus on Trump’s lies and hyperbole. Biden’s been a serial liar his whole career as well. Neither one of them is clean that way, at all. Trump is maybe more of a BS’er than an liar, whereas Biden seems more of an outright liar. But for some reason Biden “misspoke” or was “inartful” or “misremembered”, whereas Trump “lies”.

      One question for the Democrats: if Trump wins, will they accept the election results?

      1. Not a US citizen. Big fan of democracy.
        “… if trump gets in will they except the election result”.
        If Trump gets in for 4 more years will HE get out after 4 more years?.
        His brain will truly be addled by then, it wont be pretty I wager.
        I actually predicted the chaos if he was defeated while at a party mid way through his first term. It was easy, “YOUR FIRED” is not something he likes to hear about himself.
        The Democrats imo should be making noises about the back end of this coming elected term (if Trump got in) as much as the front end issues of getting Biden elected. The shear cost, the masive distractions nearly four years after being ousted, its like you have nothing better to do. Granted, maga fans don’t give a toss.
        Either way, it seems this US election is a holding platform for both parties to look around for the next run, a pathetic waste and who knows what is about to happen.

      2. No, Trump is an outright liar, worse than Biden in every way.
        We already know that when he lost last time he lied & he will do the same when he loses again.

    1. When he recommends get vaccinated at hurricane season is he under stress too?
      When he gets lost at the White House gardens, at meetings, at G7 at Italy, when he mistakes Ukraine for Iran, and so on…
      😬

    2. I think his presidency gives a more truthful picture of Biden under stress. After all, it is one of the most stressful jobs in the world, and Biden’s is a clear improvement on the previous one. A debate is a rhetorical exhibition.

  15. I’ve written this on this website before, so pardon me for repeating myself:

    Joe Biden had a profound stutter as a child. I have done a little research on stuttering, and what I’ve read tells me one never overcomes a stutter, one just learns to manage it. Managing a stutter means that a portion of one’s conscious cognitive capacity (aka, working memory) is always preoccupied with anticipating the words that may have to be pronounced – is the most fitting word in a given potential sequence one that might trigger a stutter that will derail the entire utterance? Is there an alternative that’s at least adequate and that the speaker won’t get hung up on? Mental calculations like these are something that someone with a stutter is constantly making as they are in the very act of speaking.

    In a debate, so much of what one says is extemporaneous, which, for someone managing a stutter, puts a tremendous burden on their working memory. In a prepared speech, that working memory load is much reduced.

    I think it’s at least worth considering that what appears to be cognitive decline in Biden is actually more the result of managing his stutter, and that a debate like last night is never going to be the type of forum in which he shines.

    To be clear, in no way am I asserting that I think Biden suffers NO cognitive decline – he’s 82, after all. No one is as quick mentally at 82 as they were at, say, 32. But I think it’s possible that he’s much sharper than he appeared last night.

    1. Thanks for that description of the impact of overcoming a stutter has on the brain. I have wondered about it.

    2. What does a stutter have to do with making incoherent statements and trailing off, as if he’s completely lost his train of thought?

      I’ve watched several archival videos of Biden on Youtube in his younger days, and yes the stutter is there, but there was an energy (even a bit of an aggressive edge) in his speaking that is profoundly lacking now. And even more importantly, he did not trail off and garble his sentences in such a way that made you wonder if he knew what he was talking about.

      I’m sorry, but this stutter argument sounds like gaslighting a bit.

    1. But they also say they’ll support him over Trump if he stays in. Why drop out? It’s an empty threat.

      1. I think you may have missed their point. Those editorials weren’t comments about how they would vote, they were noting that many swing voters will pull their vote from Biden given his evident age problems, and if Biden does not pull out, it is their judgement that Trump will win.

    1. To Maria: And doing something he’s done many many times over the last 50ish years. He can campaign from memory but thinking on his feet seems to be a bit of a challenge at times. It’s a shame but aging as well as he has is still a gift of the lucky.

  18. I’m not american.I’m european.I’m spanish (I don’t like my government btw, I think it’s disgusting). My opinion about the elections of a foreign country is not relevant, but the politics of USA is relevant for the EU, for my country, for Israel -to which I stand -etc…
    And since the first day I really can’t understand how any american could vote for Biden after seeing that obscene video with the Vice touching children in front of cameras! No Trump is not reason enough.And perhaps I’m from other planet, but how can’t you see this man is totally unfit to be POTUS? Moreover the public image of the USA is shattered.It almost make me feel sad for Biden, but then I remember the kind of man who is.Btw who is/are ruling the States? I don’t want nobody take offence, please.I talk with respect.

    1. My understanding of this is that when Biden was a senator, he was well known to be very compassionate and (before our politics became so toxic) was well liked by his fellow senators and their families. It was said he was very “touchy” because of the loss of his first wife and daughter in a motor vehicle accident. I can’t remember when I read this or where.

    2. Once upon a time, anyway, it was almost part of the job of being a politician to go out and “press the flesh” of their constituency. I think I vaguely remember what you refer to, but haven’t heard it mentioned in the past four years. Meanwhile, the orange blowhard is on the hook for multi-millions over groping someone in a changing room.

      Here’s a vignette of Joe Biden long before he was VP, as related by an old college classmate who was for many years a member of a US Congressman’s staff. He was on a train car headed to NY from DC, and Joe got on the car headed to Delaware. There were no more seats, so he simply sat down on the floor and started going thru his papers. When the train got to his stop in Delaware, he simply got up, shook a few hands, and got off.

      In contrast, I’ve never seen any mention that the Orangeman has ever ridden public transit.

  19. It appears that an elderly man is having good days and bad days. This is understandable, but it’s not something you can afford to have in a president. He needs to step aside as a candidate. The election appears to be lost to Trump, so there is little to lose by bringing in someone more capable as the Dem candidate at the 11th hour. I’m Canadian, so I have no direct skin in the game, except that what happens in the USA, affects the entire world. Having Trump return as president is nightmare, but running a man against him who appears to be having cognitive issues is not going to sway many swing votes.

    1. Agree.
      But where are the wannabe candidates?
      It seems as if no Dem wants to be in first line. Give Kamala a chance (just kidding).
      It’s really depressing.Btw today 30 June is election day in France (First round): the “renewed” party of the nazi LePen, commanded by his daughter -she kicked him out- is the favourite in the polls but you’ll never know, the other nasty party, whose leader is Melenchon,far-left, antisemitic and he hopes to win the muslim vote perhaps shall be second, and the Macronards need the miracle of the fear to both extremes… France is broken since a long time ago.Very bad news, no matter the final results…

  20. Today, he was reading prepared remarks from a teleprompter. Last night, he wasn’t. It is probably as simple as that.

  21. Maybe they accidentally gave him the timed-release prescription last night and it didn’t kick in until noon?

  22. I’m surprised you’d ask something like that, even in jest. The answer is obviously no. Everyone has good days and bad days. For him, between his age and whatever else he has, the contrast between a good day and a bad day will be larger.

    P.S. it’s disheartening to see how hard people commenting here are trying to cope. Since this blog is penned by someone I’d call an intellectual, I assumed most people you attracted as readers were gonna be reasonable, well adjusted people. But I think at least half look like they’re stuck in la la land, at the very least when the topic of politics comes up. It’s not gonna stop me from reading though.

  24. Before the end, my father had days when he recognized me, and other days when he didn’t. And his gaze was exactly like Biden’s.
    Disclaimer: I am not a Russian bot; in fact, I am disgusted by the pro-Russian policy of Biden which most of his supporters fail to see, because it is not their country that he is selling out to the Russians.

  25. Watched first 10 minutes of the Debate, live.
    Enough. Gone.
    „Not fit to govern“. Now let alone in 4.5 years.
    For Joe AND the Dems not to wake up now and hand it to Trump would be shameful.
    Should not have been allowed to reach this far.
    It’s clearly been coming, as the WSJ has been reminding us.

  26. One word: teleprompter. Joe can still read, sometimes. But can he still think when he doesn’t have prepared notes?

  27. The most transparent administration in history can reassure the American public by simply posting a list of the medications that President Biden takes.

    A simple, straightforward to scotch disinformation about Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s or whatever else is being circulated by the usual suspects.

  28. I believe President Joe Biden should step aside and let Kamala Harris be the Democratic nomination for the president of the United States

    1. Thats not the way it works; she doesn’t automatically become the candidate, and I, for one, would be horrified if she was. If he steps aside, it’s a free for all.

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