I have a Rule of Life, which is mine, and it goes as follows. . . . here it comes (and I’ve probably said it before):
“When engaged in conversation, you are allowed to say only 1-3 sentences before you must allow the other person to say something.”
This derives from conversations I’ve had since the pandemic began, conversations in which people yammer on forever, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they’re engaged in a DIALOGUE. This allows two or more people to actually have a conversation instead of a monologue.
Now there are of course exceptions: if someone is telling you a joke or a story, or giving a lecture, then one’s allowed to break the limit. There are other circumstances, too, as when someone is telling you their woes. But it would be salubrious if people abided in general by the rule above.
But I always wonder whether those people who speak forever are aware of their misbehavior. And I realized that you learn a lot more by listening than by speaking. As I grow older and less reserved, I try to gently nudge people to stop long monologuing by interrupting, which I don’t like to do, or, when I’m particularly splenetic, by saying, “Get to the point.”
Here are some other of my Rules for Life, of varying importance, that I’ve suggested over the years:
Button your shirt from the bottom up; that way you won’t mis-button it. (This comes from the movie “Cheaper by the Dozen,” about an efficiency expert.)
When running water for a bath, start with the cold water and then gradually turn on the hot tap. This way you won’t burn yourself.
If two people point out the same fault in your persona, they’re probably right. Fix it!
The amount of toothpaste you need to put on your brush is less than you think: about the volume of a pea. (This is from a dental hygienist.)
If a female is telling you of their troubles, they are often looking for a sympathetic ear rather than a solution. Males, on the other hand, are often looking for a tangible solution. When I have troubles and am looking for someone to comfort me rather than get a solution, I turn more readily to my women friends rather than to men, who often become prescriptive immediately. (This of course is a generalization based on sex-differential behavior, and is not universal—even among my own friends.)
Here is some real wisdom that I’ve learned, and it’s a shame it took me so long: “If you are telling someone about a behavior they have that bothers you, do not be accusatory. Simply say how that behavior makes you feel. That way they are not put on the defensive, and friendships are less likely to rupture.”
Please add your own rule(s) for life below. But don’t monologue!
Probably will see much the same but here are four of mine I try to live by (there are, of course, more, but these are basic;
1: When you point an accusing finger at someone there are three pointing back at you.
2: If you haven’t something nice to say about someone, don’t say anything at all.
3: It isn’t enough to hear what another person is saying, you must listen to what they are saying.
4: Never, and I mean never ever, sneak up under a pelican when snorkeling. Hoo-boy they don’t like that.
Never marry someone who gets mean when drunk.
+1! I would add, not a good idea to drink with someone who gets mean when drunk, or, in my experience to have anything to do with him/her if she/she is an active drinker.
+1
You can’t protect people; all you can do is love them.
(From “The Cider House Rules” by John Irving.)
Wisdom from my father:
If you think you can fly, try it first from the ground up.
When removing electrical outlet covers, place the screw back in the frame, so you won’t spend hours looking for very small things.
It matters how you are sitting as to where your feet come out in the picture.
Your mother is ALWAYS listening!
“When removing electrical outlet covers, place the screw back in the frame, so you won’t spend hours looking for very small things.”
Never try to repair your watch on a coffee table surrounded by deep pile rug.
No rules from me yet, but a query: 1- 3 sentences does seem like a good idea. Some people are good at writing long good sentences, though comma placement may be an issue in dispute, and semi-colons are — useful. Is there a word limit, and does a question count as a sentence?
I guess it’s not really about 1-3 sentences, and how long each of them is. Instead, in a conversation be mindful not to hog it because you learn more by listening than by speaking. (If you are in the mood for a monologue step in front of the mirror at home and have a go at it.)
It’s one of Jerry’s roolez of posting on this webzite that a commentator should not post too many comments in a given thread. Sometimes I see a commenter apologizing for posting 3 short comments in a thread, and I’m thinking: This isn’t a problem at all as long as your comments are to the point (bring new info or are funny, etc.).
“Don’t believe everything you think” is a bumper sticker, but pretty good advice too.
Enough is as good as a feast.
Saying how someone’s else’s behavior makes you feel can get you in trouble too. Especially these days, some people read accusations and condemnation into everything. But one can only try…
Well, if you want to say anything to try to alter someone’s behavior, or at least to discuss behavior you don’t like, this rule is a good one. The alternative is to say nothing and feel bad.
If you don’t know something, don’t fake it.
That’s a good one (not for all situations, but for many).
In that vein, I largely give advice only when I am really quite confident that what I am saying is correct. And if I am giving my opinion, I make it clear that it’s an opinion and they should consider other views too.
Keep an open mind, but not to the point where your brains fall out.
Never pack a bag you can’t carry. Never carry on a bag that you can’t lift over your head.
Today is the day you’ll want two weeks from now (don’t waste it).
Everyone is playing their own game; don’t get mad because they aren’t playing yours.
Everyone has to find their own path to heaven.
EDIT: It’s an ill-wind that blows no good.
About buttons and efficiency: Yesterday my university’s comms office sent the weekly campus-wide newsletter including an invitation to “NAVIGATING THE TYRANNY OF EFFICIENCY.”
“Decolonization is not a buzzword; it is an active, living practice in which Indigenous ways of existence are prioritized over the colonizers. Join Len Pierre as he discusses what it means to center cultural safety and outline its foundational tenets through an Indigenous world view.”
I’m thinking about cancelling all my lectures next week as a way to centre indigenous cultural safety, indigenize my classroom, and decolonize my teaching.
RE: “This derives from conversations I’ve had since the pandemic began, conversations in which people yammer on forever, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they’re engaged in a DIALOGUE.”
Oh, yes, Covid did a number on many of us, as shown in this SNL sketch (Saturday Night Live,a popular sketch show in the US):
I never get into arguments or confrontational debates anymore with people. I used to love to engage in debates, but I’ve realized that I’ve probably never convinced anyone of anything, or even “planted a seed”. I seem to have the opposite effect, in fact…I make people dig into their original position even more.
Of course, self-reflection indicates that I’ve rarely had my mind changed by debates or arguments with people…so it must be the nature of the medium.
When I do change my mind, it’s usually been the result of a process of actively seeking out information or corrections from people or sources I regard as more knowledgeable than me. In other words, I have to be in a certain, receptive frame of mind first, and I suspect most people are the same.
Life has taught me the same. “Character is destiny” as Heraclitus said. I only make an exception when talking to young people or people I love; (maybe I’m not old enough.).
It seems to me that the purpose of a debate is to convince listeners rather than opponents. Over the years I’ve received positive feedback from listeners. Can’t say I’ve received the same from opponents, although at times I’ve complimented them for making good points.
It’s never a mistake to be more polite than you have to be, under the circumstances — and it usually does everyone a bit of good.
+1
+1
I’ve known of several web discussions that have been de-escalated by pre-emptive politeness.
I was recently away on a long holiday in a rather exotic destination. After getting back home I ran into someone who remarked on how they hadn’t seen me in a while. I mentioned where I’d been. This prompted this person to go on a long monologue about their own experiences from twenty years ago in the country I’d just visited. They didn’t ask about my experiences. Of course if they had, I might have gone on a long boring monologue of my own. So perhaps I should thank them for saving me from that embarrassment.
It’s not exactly a rule, but I like the Bill Nye quote (probably not original to him): “Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don’t.”
It’s just a good reminder that there is, at least in principle, always something one can learn from someone else. That goes along nicely with PCC(E)’s point about learning more by listening than speaking.
Do not fear death. Enjoy your life.
“Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo”
(I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care.)
Be kind. We’re all just trying to get by.
The 1-3 sentence rule does not apply to engineers.
😀
Make no assumptions!
You learn more by listening that by talking. (I sometimes need to say that out loud to myself.)
Everyone is engaged in a great battle. (Not mine, but taken from somewhere else.)
A major goal of work is to generate enough wealth so that you no longer have to work. (That doesn’t mean that I don’t value work or that I didn’t like mine. I did!)
I understand the 1-3 sentence rule as valuable to general conversation, even in some written forms and, particularly, of the chit-chat variety that we often see in the Hili dialogue comments. But I wonder if it keeps running into violations here less from incivility than from a desire to make informed, intelligent points that are worthy of the site. If one either makes a point of disagreement or raises a new line of thought in two or three sentences on a complicated topic, particularly in a written form, then there is a good chance that your intelligent interlocutor will rightly take you to task for asserting rather than supporting your claim.
One of my favorites is a “rule” that will always apply in certain walks of life: “While everything worth saying has already been said, not everyone has yet said it, so, with that, I’ll begin . . .”
The rule was intended for conversations, not comments here, which are okay (though see the Roolz for appropriate lengths).
OK, I just wrote that I wouldn’t submit any of my own rules for living, but I changed my mind. Here’s one: Handle each piece of mail just once, and be done with it. If it’s junk, put it in the recycle bin. If it’s a keeper, file it in its right place immediately. If it’s a bill, pay it right now. If it’s a letter, answer it today. If it’s a check, deposit it via your phone or put it by the door so you can physically take it to the bank on your next errands trip. In short, don’t create a stack of opened mail that you will “deal with later,” because it rapidly becomes too daunting of a task. Don’t let inertia and procrastination win.
One of the issues with listening vs. talking is that in Western society, we seem to really promote extraversion and verbiage.
I once heard this phrase expressed in a business seminar…”You can be interested, but not interesting…” meaning the one doing the talking is interesting, the listener is not (otherwise the listener would be the one talking). Listening in this paradigm = being in an inferior position. It almost encourages over-talking if one lives by that phrase.
Problem is, most of us can’t speak well. We use filler words, jargon, we repeat ourselves, we don’t notice signs of disinterest and/or lack of comprehension in our listeners…etc. The 1-3 sentence rule is a good rule, but unfortunately you may find yourself completely overwhelmed in conversation if you are the only one adhering to it.
There is also a bit of irony at play when one thinks, “Won’t you shut up?! Don’t you know it is better to listen than to speak?”
Since many of the readers here are rich in experience (read: getting on in years):
Both patients and doctors, on average, overestimate the effectiveness of medical treatments (and procedures) and underestimate negative side effects. Result: Patients tend to consume too much medical care.
And: “in medicine gluttony equals harm.” (p.24)
Tammy C Hoffmann and Chris Del Mar: Patients’ Expectations of the Benefits and Harms of Treatments, Screening, and Tests. JAMA Internal Medicine, March 2015, 175(2)
Tammy C Hoffmann and Chris Del Mar: Clinicians’ Expectations of the Benefits and Harms of Treatments, Screening, and Tests. JAMA Internal Medicine, March 2017, 177(3):407-419
Sarah Kliff: The 3 most important things I’ve learned as a health care reporter. May 6, 2019
What I’ve discovered covering the health care system — and as a patient.
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019/5/6/18532253/sarah-kliff-health-care-doctor-questions-voxcare
This is so true. I came to a point in my life (many years ago) when I began to ask myself exactly what I wanted and expected from a physician before making an appointment with one. Often we just want to feel better now and seeing a doctor won’t accomplish that.
I’m late to the party but I’ll add a rule while I’m here: Smiling at (most) strangers goes a long way towards brightening people’s lives. It’s the easiest way to connect with a fellow human being and we all (usually) need that.
That is more applicable in Western, developed countries.Particularly applicable to psychological problems .Perhaps it is the reverse in developing counties.
Co-opted from Sun Tzu:
“Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.”
“But not Fred. He kind of smells…”
If someone is a couple of sentences into describing an incident or situation, don’t immediately start searching your memory for a similar incident, and then interrupt that person so you can tell your precious story (which you obviously think more worth listening to than theirs).
But, if you MUST interrupt, have a few crumbs of residual courtesy and consideration to remember that they were telling a story, and that you should let them finish. Don’t be so oblivious and self-absorbed that you bring up a new topic, having forgotten that you cut them off.
Yes, a corollary to what I said is “When listening to someone, don’t start thinking of your own experiences on the subject to interject when it’s your turn. That creates dueling monologues rather than real conversations.”
But doesn’t the corollary presuppose the reasons for interjecting personal experiences in turn are selfish? Couldn’t the interjection be an attempt at bonding, an “I know how you feel” confirmation of similar experiences?
Yes, it could be, but in my experience the default “me too” story is selfish rather than bonding.
Certainly in medical or psychological diagnostic and treatment interviews, which are structured conversations where the patient is supposed to do most of the talking in the initial phase, it is inappropriate for the doctor to jump in with his own experience with a similar story, even if a tyro does it for sincere (often desperate) attempts at empathy. It is a boundary violation and it derails the agenda of placing the patient first. This is something that medical students often have to be taught…although some experience in retail seems to make it easier. :-). Dealing with people who seek you out, rather than you them, is a good skill to learn.
As others have said, you do need to figure out what the purpose of the conversation is, especially in situations where roles have not been assigned at the beginning, but become assigned during.
Interesting and valuable post and comments! Thank you! On the flip side, my father had a rather wry sense of humor. I have very rarely been able to apply his “wise advice” to me when I was a kid: “When looking for something you have lost, don’t waste time looking where is isn’t; just look where it is!”
Earlier in my life I used to build and then manage teams of people and through that experience learned the following that I think is of value.
Just about anybody has positive skills and or attributes, if you only take the time and make the effort to figure out what they are.
Sometimes it may take some effort and patience, but usually if you treat people with dignity and respect you can figure out how they can make a positive contribution. Their self respect and work ethic improves, and you get a better team.
More than once I put together teams largely comprised of people that other managers didn’t want, and within a few weeks those same managers would be trying to steal them back from me.
These are great points, Darrell. I wish that we could get back to applying them more often in our political dealings with people.
A team. Versus friend / enemy.
+1
That is a skill that all managers should have. Sadly few do. To get a successful project team, for example, you need the right mix, with extroverts and introverts, thinkers and doers, ‘big picture’ folk and detail obsessives.
My work team did a psychology course for ‘team building’. I hate that type of thing normally (I’m an introvert) but it was fascinating. The guy running the course got people to do a task in ‘character type’ groups. My ‘introverted thinker’ group had great ideas but couldn’t complete the task in the time allowed. The ‘judging extroverts’ finished the task but clashed and didn’t have a great solution. You need all types together to build success.
I learned so much about myself, the course still helps me decades later.
One of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life is definitely worth considering:
“When you meet a cat on the street, pet it.”
Assuming it wants to be petted, of course.
One bit of advice I got from my Dad, when I was beginning my consulting career:
“If you ever sell your integrity, make sure that you get a bloody good price, because you won’t have any left after that.”
Whenever people go after Jordan Peterson (and they do constantly), I still give him a bit of a break for that great advice about cats.
You can still misbutton a shirt when starting at what you think is the last button. I respectfully suggest that you start with the very top button, but most people don’t like to keep the top button fastened, so when you’re finished buttoning downward, just go back to the very top and start unbuttoning to your satisfactory level.
Yes, but top buttons go awry more easily than bottom ones. What is the advantage of starting with the top given that you have to unbutton at the end?
My paternal grandfather (1904-1979), a clothier, used to pay attention to the clothes his grandchildren (and everyone else) wore. One of his most frequent statements when looking at me (or my father for that matter)? “Button your top button.” Funny that he had that idiosyncrasy.
Starting at the top is probably an availability heuristic from where you hands end up after shoving your arms into the sleeves and shrugging your shoulders into the shirt while holding the collar. But starting at the bottom shows an analytical process. And you can win a parlour trick against someone who promises to pay $20 to the man who can “button up” his shirt the fastest.
Buttoning from the bottom up reminds me of titration exercises in chemistry labs where one too many drops from the burette ruined the assignment. Buttoning upwards seems to protect from over-shooting (mis-buttoning) and having to start over.
Sage Appalachian Wisdom: Never get in a pissing contest with a skunk…
Rule 1: Unless you want to satiate yourself to sleep or gain weight, do not eat within 3 hours of sleep.
Rule 2: If you have kids, do not let them kick the seats of those seated in front of them on planes.
Rule 3: Do not use your professional email for anything you don’t want plastered in the public sphere someday. Remember that email is forever. Avoid the forward function of emails if you are going to add a personal note along with the forward. Instead copy and paste the contents of the forward into a fresh email to whoever you want to converse with.
Rule 4: If you are a woman, don’t stick around in a relationship with a man who is hesitant about you, doesn’t chase, and isn’t available on holidays. My rule applies after about 4 months of dating. That’s enough time to sense whether the man is mostly in it for physicality vs building a life. If the man won’t even tell you what he’s done on a holiday, ditch him. Of course, there are exceptions, especially if, as the woman, you don’t want anything serious. But if you do, the holiday rule is good indicator.
Rule 5: If you are a woman, don’t shave your head, ever! And don’t cut your hair, especially if you have naturally higher levels of testosterone for a woman. Also, keep your natural hair color in your 40s and until the greying gets awkward. You can always color your hair blonde in your 60s to give off the verisimilitude of youth, but you can never get your natural color again.
Rule 6: Be very, very careful about who you confide in. Always remember that a confidant is possibly also a liability. Tell most friends only enough to make them feel close to you. Do not overshare or tell them things they could use to harm you purposefully or accidentally. It is better to hold it and go without the catharsis than to make oneself worse off.
Rule 7: If you are the more-senior person in a relationship, either professionally due to power differences in roles or personally due to age, maintain appropriate boundaries. What those boundaries are varies by setting and context, but remember who is more responsible for maintaining norms.
Rule 8: Eat less and move more.
I surely could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I’d been aware of rule #4 in my younger years. That’s a good one, Roz.
My rule list for older people (like myself):
– Listen more than you talk
– Get your hearing and eyesight tested and correct if possible
– Don’t give unsolicited advice
– Stop whining so much.
– Telling anecdotes from your earlier lives is entertaining (to a point), but seldom useful as life lessons today.
– Don’t act like you are as smart, quick, athletic, funny, and attractive as you were 20 years ago. Let your ego naturally deflate and embrace it.
– Be curious about and engage with the younger generations. It’s their world now. They may want your advice, but re-read the previous rules.
– Do your homework.
– Re-read the first rule.
Donald Knuth coauthored a paper about mathematical writing, with some amusing, self-evidential grammar maxims:
• Watch out for prepositions that sentences end with.
• When dangling, consider your participles.
• About them sentence fragments.
• Make each pronoun agree with their antecedent.
• Don’t use commas, which aren’t necessary.
There are useful gems throughout, applicable to all kinds of writing.
https://jmlr.csail.mit.edu/reviewing-papers/knuth_mathematical_writing.pdf
Love Knuth! Still have his textbook from a CS course. He was at my ex’s PhD orals. A wise and witty man.
Good advice; Mark Twain said the only use for a semi-colon is to tell the reader you went to college. (And to get in under a 3-sentence rule.)
Sentence count = 1, exclusive of this annotation.
Read this online as a quote from an overheard conversation:
“OK, are you listening, or are you just waiting for your turn to speak?”
+1
But the people who ARE just waiting for their turn to speak don’t understand such questions.
Most important. Never live with someone who does not like cats.
When learning to fly my instructor said.
“ There are bold pilots and there are old pilots but few old bold pilots” and “ never fly into cloud if you don’t know how high the ground is”
Some conversations need to stay on one topic for a long time if a person needs support. But the supported person should always recognise that, and ensure that the supporter then gets a chance to be supported or to be the focus for a while too.
Check the other person is still interested (and awake) and give them a chance to talk by pausing to ask feedback questions. ‘Do you agree?’. ‘Has that happened to you?’.
Sometimes asking ‘have I told you about xxxx?’ before you start can save you repeating the story to a friend who has already heard it.
1. You won’t regret making the reservation, even if you believe the restaurant will be quiet. The mild embarrassment of stating you have a table booked in an empty restaurant is better than being turned away if it’s busy.
2. If you’re not sure if you can eat something on your plate, don’t. (Or ask.) Better the waiter thinks, “ha, he didn’t know he could eat the edible soil,” than, “oh shit, where’s the soil gone?”
Lately I’m trying to follow one of Emperor Augustus’s favourite sayings, “festina lente” because I gloss over stuff and rush through and always have. I have terrible patience.
Otherwise, I’m one of those women who will try to solve your problem for you but only if you want me to and I won’t diminish a person’s suffering by saying “well it could be worse, you could be like so-and-so”.
Slowly the bird builds its nest
Goes with the recent bird nest post!
My favourite Latin phrase is gutta cavat lapidem [non vi sed saepe cadendo]
A water drop hollows a stone [not by force, but by falling often].
We are encouraged by tales of heroic deeds but Real Life is much better explained by the slow drip, drip, drip.
Some lovely suggestions above for a happy and productive life!
I don’t often quote from the Big Book of Magic Stuff, but “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” is apposite for quite a few personal interactions.
I cannot resist also quoting a less serious piece of advice:
“Before you criticise someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when you come to criticise them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes”.
Awesome
Never tell the same story or the same joke to a group which contains a person who has heard it from you before, lest they think you boring.
Never tell the same story or the same joke to a group which contains a person who has heard it from you before.
Ha :0)
I did a spit take.
Resist the urge to give unsolicited, gratuitous in-your-face critiques about, say, another person’s attire. (E.g., don’t fatuously utter, “That’s just weird!” or some such pearl of wisdom.) Especially if you’re part of a group going out to eat on a social outing, and the person to whom you’ve uttered that sweet burbling has to bite their tongue in order for the evening to come off positively.
If you’re in a restaurant as part of a group and, in an effort to be sociable and make conversation, one or two dining companions say that they had spent the earlier afternoon enjoying listening to a singer – to whom you would not deign to listen – don’t take that as an “opportunity” to “bless” them with your denigration and dismissal of their musical interests/enthusiasms. (They don’t know your musical likes and dislikes.) All you accomplish by that is to put a damper on conversation, and cause your companions to bite their tongues and to wonder what else ought they not mention in order to Keep The Peace with you. (Unless they’ve already experienced enough of that with you that they’ve reached the point that they will talk back to you with equal bluntness and not care if the evening is ruined, having resolved to not further associate with you.)
This is oddly specific.
A rule for life (actually 3 in one):
Believe what is true, dispel false beliefs, and know the difference
My definition of science is the logical pursuit of knowledge.
Thank you, Jerry, for your website and work.
I don’t throw stones, because I’m a lousy shot and my glass house wouldn’t survive.
— Patricia Sund
It’s OK to burn your bridges. Just not others.
—Anon
Stupidity is unlimited and far too many people have access to it.
—Bruce Mittlesteadt
Those who are not grateful soon begin to complain of everything.
—Thomas Merton
This is the past that someone in the future is longing to go back to.
—Ashleigh Brilliant
Where’s My Cape? I was promised there would be a cape. —J A Coyne
Re: Hot and cold water: Current building codes prohibit separate hot and cold water controls. They require a single cold-to-hot control, to prevent scalding.
I hate this, but nobody asked me.
Re: Males v. females: As a female, I found it valuable to negotiate with my husband. Sometimes, I would specify whether I was seeking a solution or only venting, and he would respond accordingly.
Interestingly, our daughter, contrary to the stereotype, tends to reply with solutions. Again, however, we both try to specify exactly what we’re seeking.
Never listen to a conversation with more than two people talking.
My undergraduate tutor gave me excellent advice for preparing an academic presentation. The more professors in the audience, he told me, the simpler you should make your talk.
I should add that he was talking about professors in the British sense, i.e. the most senior academics on the faculty. They tend (at least in British universities) to be highly focussed on their particular specialist area, so if you’re in an academic department with many specialties, there’s sometimes not too much common ground between them.
He also gave me a second piece of advice for giving a talk: Stand up. Speak up. Shut up.
His name was Derek McNally. In the 1970s and early 1980s, he did much to establish astronomy as a degree subject in its own right at University College London, my alma mater. He was a kind man, with an impish sense of humour, and he was one of my earliest academic mentors.
+1
My father gave me a bit of advice that I have found useful.
“Figures never lie, but liars figure.”
Helped me to develop a healthy skeptical outlook.
I don’t always drink beer but when I do I prefer Dos Equis.
Always read the instructions.
In most settings…
– Keep an eye on your ratio of questions to statements
– Ask ambiguous questions. How your interlocutor interprets the question may tell you more about them than their response.
Never let your principles get in the way of doing the right thing.
David Sedaris mentioned in one of his stories that his partner’s ageing father has developed the quirk of just walking away mid conversation if he’s heard enough. I’m envious but not quite old enough to get away with it, I suspect. Something to look forward to!
Don’t confuse your opinions with the truth.