UPDATE: At the libertarian website Reason, legal scholar Eugene Volokh has a different take, based partly on what he sees as the overly lax and non-scholarly nature of Jill Biden’s Ed.D.
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This week’s kerfuffle involves a writer at the Wall Street Journal, Joseph Epstein, taking Jill Biden to task for calling herself “Dr. Biden”—and allowing Joe Biden’s campaign to call her that—when her doctorate was in education (she has two master’s degrees as well). In other words, she’s a Ph.D. In the article below (click on screenshot, or make a judicious inquiry if you can’t access it), Epstein argues that only medical doctors should call themselves “doctor”, and advises Jill Biden to ditch her title.
I have to say that Epstein’s article, which has been universally attacked for being sexist and misogynistic, is indeed patronizing and condescending (Epstein has an honorary doctorate, but not an “earned” one). I’d be loath to call it sexist on those grounds alone, but the tone of the article, and the words he uses, do seem sexist. Here are two excerpts:
Madame First Lady—Mrs. Biden—Jill—kiddo: a bit of advice on what may seem like a small but I think is a not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the “Dr.” before your name? “Dr. Jill Biden ” sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic. Your degree is, I believe, an Ed.D., a doctor of education, earned at the University of Delaware through a dissertation with the unpromising title “Student Retention at the Community College Level: Meeting Students’ Needs.” A wise man once said that no one should call himself “Dr.” unless he has delivered a child. Think about it, Dr. Jill, and forthwith drop the doc.
As for your Ed.D., Madame First Lady, hard-earned though it may have been, please consider stowing it, at least in public, at least for now. Forget the small thrill of being Dr. Jill, and settle for the larger thrill of living for the next four years in the best public housing in the world as First Lady Jill Biden.
The use of the word “kiddo,” and the reference to her as “Dr. Jill” does seem sexist, though of course there’s “Dr. Phil” (Ph.D., clinical psychology) and a whole host of other doctors, including M.D. medical experts on the evening news, who are called by their first name. (“Thanks, Dr. Tim”.) Those are usually terms of affection, though, while “Dr. Jill” is clearly not meant affectionately. And why the denigration for the title of her thesis? Finally—”kiddo”? Fuggedabout it. The undoubted truth that women’s credentials have historically been impugned also would lead one to see Epstein’s piece as falling into that tradition.
I sure as hell wouldn’t have written that article, and, as somebody suggested in the pile-on, would Epstein have written it about a man? Where’s his critique of “Dr. Phil”?
The fracas is described in a piece by Matt Cannon in Newsweek and the piece below in the New York Times. I haven’t been able to find a single article about Epstein’s op-ed piece that doesn’t damn it to hell for sexism, and, in fact, although he was a long-term honorary emeritus lecturer at Northwestern, that University criticized his piece (official statement: “Northwestern is firmly committed to equity, diversity and inclusion, and strongly disagrees with Mr. Epstein’s misogynistic views”). His picture has also been removed from Northwestern’s website, showing that he’s toast. Were Epstein at the University of Chicago, my school wouldn’t have made any official statement, as it’s not 100% clear that his statement was motivated by misogyny, much as the article suggests it.
But that leaves the question “should anyone with a Ph.D. call themselves ‘doctor'”? My answer would be “it’s up to them.”
But I have to say that I have never been able to call myself “Doctor Coyne” except as a humorous remark or in very rare situations that I can’t even remember. I will allow other people to call me “Doctor Coyne.”, but as soon as I have a relationship with them, the “Doctor” gets dropped for “Jerry.” My undergraduates would usually call me “Professor Coyne”, or sometimes “Doctor Coyne,” and that was okay, for being on a first-name basis with them effaces the mentor/student relationship that is useful when teaching. But to my grad students I was always “Jerry.”
It is true that I worked as hard, or even harder, than do medical students to earn the right to be called “Doctor”, taking five years of seven-days-a-week labor to get it, but somehow I don’t feel that I should get a lifetime honorific for that. I got a Ph.D. so I could become a professional evolutionist, not to command respect from people, many of whom might mistakenly think I was a medical doctor. The New York Times quotes Miss Manners here:
Judith Martin, better known as the columnist Miss Manners, said her father, who had a Ph.D. in economics, insisted on not being called Dr. and implored his fiancée, Ms. Martin’s mother, to print new wedding invitations after the first version included the title.
“As my father used to say, ‘I’m not the kind of doctor who does anybody any good,’” Ms. Martin said in an interview on Saturday. “He didn’t feel it was dignified. I am well aware that this is a form of reverse snobbery.”
Still, Ms. Martin said, “I don’t tell people what to call themselves and I’m aware that women often have trouble with people who don’t respect their credentials.”
I’m pretty much on board with both her and her father here, though I’d take issue with saying my refusal to call myself “Doctor. Coyne” is reverse snobbery. Rather, it’s part of my lifelong desire not to be seen as better than other people just because I got a fancy education. I remember that when I got my first job at the University of Maryland, I was given an empty lab on the second floor of the Zoology Building. But it was in a box containing all the application folders for everyone who had applied for the job I got. After a few days of resisting, I peeked into my own folder to see my letters of recommendation. And I’ll always remember Dick Lewontin’s letter, which, though highly positive, added something like this, “If Jerry has any faults, is that he is too self-denigrating, always underselling himself.” Well, that may be true, but it’s better to undersell yourself than oversell yourself! I’ve always detested the pomposity of accomplished academics. Other academics think it lends cachet to their books (even “trade books”) by using “Dr.” in the title. More power to them, but I could never bring myself to do that.
One other interesting point: the AP Style Manual agrees with Epstein about the use of “Dr.” According to the Newsweek piece:
The AP stylebook, a writing guide used by major U.S. publications including Newsweek, also suggests that the term doctor should not be used by those with academic doctoral degrees.
Its latest edition reads: “Use Dr. in first reference as a formal title before the name of an individual who holds a doctor of dental surgery, doctor of medicine, doctor of optometry, doctor of osteopathic medicine, doctor of podiatric medicine, or doctor of veterinary medicine.”
It adds: “Do not use Dr. before the names of individuals who hold other types of doctoral degrees.”
So you could say Epstein was adhering to that rule, but the tone of his piece is snarky and condescending. The opprobrium he’s earned for it is largely deserved.
I suppose I adhere to the AP dictum on this website, too, as it seems weird to call my colleagues “Dr.”, but less weird to call medical doctors “Dr. X”.
(Epstein also denigrates honorary doctorates, for they’re not markers of scholarly achievement—except at the University of Chicago, which may be the only school in the U.S. that confers honorary degrees only on scholars—never to actors, cartoonists, sports figures, and so on. But I don’t know anybody who calls themselves “Dr.” with only an honorary doctorate.)
So if Jill Biden wants to be called “Dr. Biden,” it’s churlish to refuse—after all, she did earn the right to use it. And it’s a matter of simple civility to address people how they want to be addressed.
I have only one caveat here: nobody—be they medical doctors or Ph.Ds—should ever put “Dr.” before their names on their bank checks. That’s where I draw the line. It looks like a move of pompous one-upsmanship—like you’re trying to lord it over salespeople, cashiers, and bank tellers.
Jill Biden’s degree is an Ed.D. That is a professional degree, and if you follow American convention, carries the title. It’s the Ph.D., which is a research degree, for which this is problematic. Personally, I’d be inclined to take the example of Madelaine Albright over that of Henry Kissinger.
Good point, Ken, and I agree with you. In both my professional and personal lives I’ve had cordial relationships with many school superintendents. The Ed.Ds. among them were always addressed as “doctor.”
MD is also a professional degree. As is the DDS or DMD from dental school. I guess it is OK for those degrees from professional schools to use Doctor. I do not think lawyers (JD), pharmacists (PharmD), or physical therapists (Doctor of Physiotherapy DPT) should use the honorific doctor.
If you are part of the academy, my preference is professor rather than doctor.
UofC famously refused to give Queen Elizabeth II an honorary degree when she visited Chicago in 1959. Bill Clinton invited himself to UofC commencement in 2000. Only faculty are allowed to be commencement speakers. They are supposed to last only 18 minutes. Clinton was allowed to give “remarks” – which were way too long. And he did not get an honorary degree.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1999-06-11-9906120042-story.html
I think a PhD using the honorific “doctor” is perfectly fine and earned and Epstein is being an asshole who wants to put Jill Biden in her place as the accoutrement to the president relegated to cutesy girl tasks. I wonder if a husband to the president would be expected to decorate the White House for Christmas.
When it comes to addressing others I tend to be very casual and I don’t even like referring to my medical doctors as “doctor so-and-so”. It’s distancing and putting the person in a clear power position above you. I know this is also cultural. In companies we tend to refer to everyone by their first name irrespective of position. We also chat with them even if they own the place. There are many that refer to faculty at work by their “doctor” honorific but I tend not to and most faculty don’t ask that you do. When we interact we are typically working together as equals and I tend toward egalitarianism so I never like to be called “Ms” just my first name is fine. That said, I think it’s respectful to address your professor as “professor” or “doctor”. They earned that and they are teaching you at least this should be done as an undergrad.
Were his comments sexist? Likely yes. Were they misogynistic? Likely not.
(Despite the best efforts of the Woke, hopefully the English language will retain the distinction.)
The only usage of Doctor as a form of address that I find objectionable is by lawyers in some countries when they only have a bachelors degree.
I recall a mushroom hunting field trip of professionals and amateurs once where two participants were introduced to each other as doctors. One asked “what’s your field?” and the other replied “general practice”.
By the time I was in grad school I had learned that “Dr.” didn’t really mean all that much. I (and others) called my major professor “Doc” as a term of endearment. That’s what my grandfather had been known by, too. He was a veterinarian in the early 20th Century.
If I were Jill Biden I wouldn’t use the “Dr.”, just as I wouldn’t use it if I was one of those preachers who attended some theology school. It just feels like someone seeking out respect instead of just gaining it through one’s work.
But, on the other hand, callouts like this Epstein piece are little more than attempted smears. Epstein might have painted “I’m a dick” on his forehead for all the good he’s done himself.
MD’s are physicians – PhDs, EdDs etc are doctors just as much as MDs
As I understand it, the term “doctor” originally meant a learned person. It comes from the latin word docēre (to teach). Thus I agree that someone who earns a doctorate in their field can be called doctor.
That has always been my understanding as well. Also, the use of Dr. is many times dependent on the situation. At the Los Alamos National Lab, everyone and their sibling had a PhD, so Dr. was never used – besides, many who did not have a doctoral degree were smarter than those who did! At MD Anderson, one’s degree was embroidered on the lab coats, so there was not confusion between the physicians and researchers. Many of the MDs also had PhDs, but the best label IMHO were the folks who got their PhDs first and thus their lab coats were PhD/MD as opposed to the reverse 🙂 In the University setting I held to the traditional custom of students not calling me by my first name. Since my last name is so long, I told them Dr S would be fine.
I dislike being called “Dr” and prefer “Mr” or just “John.” Women are far more likely to list their credentials and insist on being called by their earned title than men are, in my experience. Perhaps because society often defaults to assuming women aren’t professionals, aren’t trained, aren’t educated, etc., and they want to remind people they in fact are.
Yes. And to teach people that women can be and often are well educated and credentialed. And to increase the probability that the men in the room will actually listen.
Women are more likely to list credentials because otherwise they don’t get the same respect as their male colleagues. The two youngest women in my university department want to be called “Dr.” because otherwise too many students assume they are clerical staff or can be treated like a “mom” who will clean up their academic messes (missed deadlines, etc.). I was astounded at examples of how casually and disrespectfully they were treated that in 25 years I never once have been.
Neither would otherwise want to be called “Dr”.
As a lowly, but none too young, female doctoral candidate, I am embarrassed when my Masters students call me ‘professor’ simply because I stand before them and teach. But given some of the comments here, I will choose also to be grateful to live and work in a sufficiently unsexist and respectful environment where the default is to assume a female teacher must be a professor. Perhaps my great age has something to do with it too…
I have a PhD in psychology and am licensed as a clinical psychologist which allows me to use the title Doctor; however I never did because, among other things, I worked in prisons for the first 25 years of my career and that just wasn’t done.
In 2015 I started working in a hospital and on my first day of work I was being introduced around by a psychologist colleague. I met a bunch of the nurses on the unit I was working on and they asked “What do we call you?” I replied “Uh, …. Jan”
As we were leaving the unit I was scolded by my psychologist colleague – I should have said “Dr. Looman” in order to maintain the hierarchy.
I never did. For the same reasons Jerry provided.
Epstein is being boorish.
It would be nice if the pro-democratic media could refrain from being snarky about the Biden’s until after the inauguration, at least.
Most my students call be Dr. James or Mrs. James. I prefer the “Dr.” because I am not married to someone with the last name James.
LOL! I’m not either. I’ve often had to explain that I didn’t change my name when we got married.
(Perhaps we share some distant Welsh ancestor.)
I remember an incident where a student addressed me as “Ms. S.”, but my male colleague “Dr. D.” in a meeting. Dr. D. corrected the student immediately. Back home, students always call a teacher “Teacher X”.
Most of my students call me Charlie or Dr. Jones. I tell them I hate “Mr. Jones” because ‘mister’ is a gross word, like ‘moist’.
If I recall correctly you kind of said the same thing about the name on books you write. People that need to be called Dr. are probably not the ones you want to meet. It is kind of like rank in the military. Those who make a deal of it are not ones that you want to know.
When I was in the U.S. Navy, I heard of officers of the same rank trying to pull rank over each other by comparing their so-called “lineal numbers.” (Don’t remember the significance of them.)
Lineal number refers to who was commissioned first. In the movie Zulu, Stanley Baker and Michael Caine play lieutenants. Baker takes command since he was commissioned earlier.
I always use “Doctor” when first addressing someone (medical, PhD, etc). for the first time. 90% of the time they will tell me to drop the “Dr”, but that’s they’re choice, not mine. Just as I wouldn’t call “Jennifer” “Jen” or “James” “Jim”. My partner is a PhD. and yes he will pull that title when it matters. Specifically, he used it when his brother was dying of cancer. He got a lot more detailed info until he was asked what his field was in. “Behavioral ecology”. Conversations changed after that. Besides, I think “Professor” is so much more dignified than “Doctor”. s/
Professor is a title above/after Doctor as well — it’s a doctorate who then also published peer-reviewed research and achieved tenure at a a university. Similar to medicine, where all graduates of medical school are Doctors, and an Attending Physician is a Doctor who also completed residency and earned the right to practice without (as much) oversight.
Reminds me of an incident when my father was hospitalized. The hospitalist (a doctor who didn’t know my father’s medical history very well except as it related to the incident that brought him in) explained the surgery she planned. My sister, a veterinarian, tried to disagree but didn’t want to alarm my father. The hospitalist ignored her.
As the hospitalist left the room, my sister beckoned me to follow. My sister introduced herself (Dr. Williams) and me (Dr. Wilson) without mentioning that we’re a vet and a botanist, respectively. Then she explained exactly why Dad shouldn’t have the surgery. The hospitalist said little, but later she sailed into the room and explained the treatment she planned without any reference to surgery. Sometimes the degree is very, very useful.
Having called my paternal grandparents Mr./Mrs. ***** (we weren’t close), I have never felt comfortable addressing physicians by their given names, even when they are half my age. I even felt funny calling my in-laws by their first names. I used to work in a large hospital, and a Ph.D. biomed engineer in our group discouraged us from addressing him as doctor for fear someone might be confused and summon him to give medical assistance to a patient.
How interesting he takes umbrage at the title she wants used. I wonder what his approach would be for preference of personal pronouns. Both concepts could be considered to be similar. Bit of a storm in a teacup really as there are much more important things on the horizon really
I think it’s misleading in this circumstance to use Dr. Perhaps the campaign started it.
Would Mr. Epstein prefer that people all around the world stop calling a man named King ‘Dr.’?
Good hint! I already had the same thought.
We call you Jerry because you’re our friend the girls call you “Uncle Jerry;” but, you deserve to be called “doctor.” I like this piece, Jerry; it’s well balanced and thoughtful.
They’re certainly entitled to, and I see no problem with it, though the PhDs I’ve known tend to consider it a bit pretentious — or at least to consider it a bit pretentious to insist that others do so — so it’s generally not the done thing. Most seem happy to get by with “Perfesser,” and even that in only more formal circumstances.
I tend to address someone I know to be a PhD as “Doctor” on first meeting, but then convert to “Professor” (assuming they teach) or to their given name (or to “Mac” or “Buddy” or “Pal” or “Big Guy” 🙂 ), unless I get the sense that they expect to be continued to be addressed as “Dr. so-and-so.”
Call somebody whatever the hell it is they want (within reason, I mean, not like “Napoleon” or anything, unless that’s their actual name) is my rule of thumb.
As I understand stand it, the title of “doctor” in the sense of someone who has obtained a doctorate predates the medical usage by some centuries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title).
That said, my wife would never use the title outside of the academic environment in which she works. I fully appreciate that other people choose to do so, and I can’t see a problem with them using a title that they have earned and which has an ancient tradition.
I have a Ph.D. in physics. I never use “Dr.” in my title except when listing my professional credentials (though I made friends call me “Dr.” for a week after I defended my thesis!) It is typically not in the culture of hard sciences to use “Dr.” among colleagues or in a professional setting (this being the U.S. – it’s quite different in Germany and perhaps other parts of Europe).
But I now work at the interface with the medical world. There, “Dr.” and “M.D.” are much more commonly listed and uttered. A minority of M.D.’s are miffed if a Ph.D. calls themselves Dr. when addressing a medical arena. This is certainly snobbery among a few, but mostly they want to avoid a misunderstanding wherein my calling myself “Dr.” could in fact misrepresent my expertise since they’d reasonably assume I was presenting myself as an M.D.
A better solution would be to have different prefixes for Ph.D.’s and M.D.’s.
As for Dr. Biden, I don’t think that confusion applies since her background is well known. Epstein is just being a sexist jerk.
On the one hand, Epstein is obviously deliberately being a jerk here.
On the other hand, as someone with a PhD, I’ve always understood that “Dr.” is for use in academic contexts only (teaching a class, given a talk at a conference & etc.), and that only self-important wankers insist on being called “Dr.” in other circumstances.
It’s also true that doctors of education are notorious for insisting on being addressed as “Dr.” everywhere they go (and everyone snickers at them behind their backs as a result).
Never having worked as any sort of teacher, I have never been called Dr — except by my proud father. And that’s fine. It really ticks me off when some guy who is writing an article about some far-out idea or conspiracy insists on giving his name as Dr something-or-other. Just trying to get folks to take them seriously.
Who really cares? She can be called whatever she wants.. I have other things to care about.
Well, perhaps, since this piece has bored you, you shouldn’t be reading this website.
I personally never refer to myself as “Doctor”. If students want to call me Dr. Poirot, I don’t object. I ask students in my classes and that I don’t know well to address me as Professor. I never ask anyone other than students to use a title in addressing me and even then, when I know a student well and know that they are mature, I generally prefer to be addressed by my first name (but not by students that I don’t know and haven’t invited to call me by my first name). I personally would never use “Dr.” if for some reason I were to run for office or be part of a campaign but this article was definitely condescending and petty- at the very best.
“Hastings! Zee leetle gray cells!”
Dr. Jill Biden earned her degree and deservers the academic title, she probably chooses when to use it and when. Her dissertation title in no way reflects the complexity, value, depth of her work. You would need to read it and have some background in the field in order to do that justly.
My favorite story involved a local professor at an education conference.
He was waiting for a session to start when he overheard two hotel staff talking. One said to the other, “I hear everyone here calling each other doctor–do you know what kind of doctors are meeting here?” The staff member responded,”They are the kind of doctors that don’t do anyone any good.”
That’s good!
Epstein’s column is, I think, a sexist mess. Having said that, I agree with him about honorary degrees. And in that regard, my alma mater (Cornell) goes one step further than Chicago, in that it doesn’t award honorary degrees (at least none since two were awarded in 1886). That is as it should be.
Honorifics are interesting things … Take the Reverend? And what about Prof or Professor?
And I am reminded of way back when, the really expensive doctors on Harley St went by Mr.
Speaking personally I have gone with the flow. Definitely don’t use Dr when booking a flight. When I lived in South Africa I tended to be introduced as a Dr, certainly would not do so in a social situation. In Canada in the workplace it has been omitted (as a rule), except when I (we) were being introduced to some potential Iranian JV partners. And for full disclosure I do have Dr on one of my credit cards. Used the honorific 33 years ago when I thought it might help with my credit rating on coming to Canada. I suspect it did not really matter.
As to Dr Biden? Render unto Caesaris. There are more interesting things to perseverate about.
I’d say they’re certainly entitled to, but should consider the circumstances. I suspect in most cases it’s probably more acceptable for a Ph.D to be *called* Doctor, than for them to refer to themselves as Dr. I once worked for a man who had a Ph.D and called himself Dr., but we worked in a healthcare organization and he was roundly (and I think justly) ridiculed for it.
in general, I agree and adopt your usage. But when I’m very elderly and in an assisted living, I can half imagine resurrecting the title Dr. to remind the staff of my contributions. It may be worth an extra pudding …
“I have only one caveat here: nobody—be they medical doctors or Ph.Ds—should ever put “Dr.” before their names on their bank checks. That’s where I draw the line. It looks like a move of pompous one-upsmanship—like you’re trying to lord it over salespeople, cashiers, and bank tellers.” – Agreed absolutely. Working in a restaurant in London in the ’80s some fool came in and paid using a bank cheque in the name “Lord So-and-so” and gave such a look of smug satisfaction as he handed it over that I was genuinely puzzled about what he was up to until I saw the name printed on it.
What always gets me wondering when the subject of education comes up is Abe Lincoln. To go as far as he did with almost no formal education at all. Certainly it could not be done today but that it could in the 19th century is amazing. His looks and lack of education tricked many into underestimating the man and often left them looking pretty stupid. This was true of nearly everyone in his cabinet and a few generals as well.
Regarding Lincoln, I’m inclined to think that perhaps “A.D.”, Autodidact, should be designated an academic honorific.
Dr. Biden earned the degree(s), and I’d call her Dr. Biden unless she told me to call her Jill. I’m very OK with people with PhDs preferring to be called Dr., as long as they’ don’t go ballistic if someone slips up. I’ve heard stories.
My doctoral supervisor reckoned that the only significant use of the Dr prefix was when signing letters of complaint and my experience indicates that she is right.
Also, here in the UK surgeons, as opposed to ordinary medics, delight in being referred to as Mr. (Presumably also Ms., etc.) Supposedly this is a consequence of surgeons originally being the local barbers who had access to sharp things. (And hence the blood running down the traditional barber’s pole.)
There are norms, such as the norm of not addressing yourself as ‘Dr’, and then there is showbiz (Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz), and of course there is similar vocation of politics. Here, it is politically empowering for her to include her academic title in her name. In recognition of that, I think she should keep doing it.
Of course, she is “in politics” by marriage. As I understand it she plans to keep her professional career going despite being First Lady.
I suppose one should stand by for another Epsteinesque character to complain that she is not doing justice or paying sufficient respect to her position as First Lady – er, uh – Spouse.
I do expect the Republican will take the lead on that. They hated HRC from the beginning for being suitably “wifey.” But I’m guessing VP elect Harris’ husband will still get better treatment than Biden’s wife.
While my students tend to begin calling me Dr. Corneli, once I have an academic relationship (ie that I consult with them or they bother to come to my class), then I ask them to please call my Patrice or Patty as my colleagues do. It is stilted in the usual social arena.
However, just as my pediatrician husband is rightly called Dr. Corneli in his practice, I prefer Dr. Corneli myself if I am not familiar with the person to whom I am speaking. Likewise, in correspondence, I am Dr. Corneli or Dr. Showers Corneli. PhD, after all the letters are simply short for Docter of Philosophy is the old sense of Philosophy being the academic arts.
In England, of course, physicians are still, to the best of knowledge, Mr. Evans, not Dr. Evans. The original article was clearly written from a perspective of ignorance.
Cheers, Dr. Patrice Showers Corneli – or simply Patty
Maybe it’s just me, but I always felt weird calling my professors by their first name. One of my earliest lessons in elementary school was that you *never* call adults by their first name because it’s disrespectful. It’s odd how some early lessons stick with you!
I had a professor of literature who insisted on being addressed as “Dr. Goldstein.” In addition, he would address the students as Mr. or Ms. He said “If you can’t use my first name, I won’t use yours.”
In introductory college physics, when conversing with a graduate teaching assistant, I referred to the PhD professor by his last name. The GTA corrected me that it was “Dr.” I accepted it on the chin without comment. No advantage to me to push back to the GTA.
But I confess that I referred to the good Doctor by his last name because of what I perceived to be his unnecessarily irksome, borderline disrespectful, way of interacting with students. When working on a problem on the board, he was predisposed to say, “We can see that . . .” when perhaps it was possible (likely?) that not all of us students could clearly see what the Learned Professor apparently took for granted. At that “tender” age I was too timid (for fear of seeming a dunce) to immediately pipe up and say, “Please excuse my ignorance but, no, Professor, I don’t see. Perhaps you could tell us what we are specifically seeing.”
A favorite ‘New Yorker’ cartoon shows a man kneeling next to a woman slumped in a chair, while holding her wrist and saying, “My doctorate is in literature, but your pulse seems fine to me.”
I told my doctor, It hurts when I do this. He told me, don’t do that. Then I said, I want a second opinion and he said, okay, you’re ugly too.
In fact, someone who wrote a doctorate thesis, a PhD, is a real doctor, someone like Jill Biden (or Jerry Coyne). Someone like myself is just a MD.
Although most address me as ‘Doc’ , I’m not a real doc, no PhD.
In the population at large the perception is the opposite: Dr Coyne (or Dr Biden) is not a real doctor: (s) he does not treat patients.
I like to be addressed in the hospital as “Doc” rather than “Mr”, it gives this kind of feeling of belonging to the Hospital. In England, to complicate matters, surgeons take pride in being called ‘Mr’, and not ‘Doc’. Go figure. I think that the physicians thought that surgery is such a low craft that it does not deserve a ‘Dr’. I’ve known some absolutely brilliant ‘Mr’ s in England.
I also like being addressed by the endearing “uncle” -well, endearing and polite in South Africa-, which I’m commonly addressed as too.
I’d never ever put ‘Dr’ before my name in writing (except my stamp, required), I agree with Jerry that is a real and absolute nono.
To come back to Dr Biden: she is fully entitled to her ‘Dr’, but I doubt it is politically expedient. And Dr Epstein appears to be a cad.
“Real doc” – an example that reality is subjective !
I’ve noticed over the years how names of patrons in city/community symphony concert programs are listed. “Dr. and Mrs. (Mr.?) So-and-So.” I’ve always assumed that they are M.D.’s, not Ph.D.’s. (Any D.D.S.’s?) Surely not every M.D. is comfortable with that.
A long time ago I understand that Attorneys used to put “Esq.” after their names. Don’t see it any more.
I noticed a kind of sexist slip in my post. It should read: In England, to complicate matters, surgeons take pride in being called ‘Mr’ or ‘Ms’, not ‘Doc’.
My apologies to all those female surgeons. And to think that my brilliant mentor was a woman, shame on me.
A good opportunity to say congratulations to our hardworking host Professor Ceiling Cat, for getting the “prev” and “next” prompts right up at the top. I keep an open tab for WEIT, and this makes it even easier than before.
If it is a question of addressing in common speech, then one can make the change for a medical practitioner, as “medic” or “physician”.
If it is a question of the honorable prefix to a name, then one can make the change for non-medical degrees, more aptly as “doctorate” like Dt. while Dr. for medical “doctor”.
Nevertheless, historically who started the confusion – the one holding the title or the ones addressing it ? Of course, one can always state, “I am not that kind of doctor”, as the other side poses the question “Doctor Who ?”
Like Jerry, I got my PhD so I could get an academic job, not for the title. I encourage my students not to call me Dr or Professor. The people I’ve met who insist on being called Professor have often been those who aren’t actually qualified to use the title.
I don’t see the purpose of Epstein’s piece in the WSJ. It came across as petty and demeaning. That said, I have never used the honorific “Dr.” just because I have a Ph.D. Someone might expect medical help from me. I know someone with a Ph.D. who identifies himself as “Dr. So and so” when he wants hard-to-get restaurant reservations.
This all is reminding me of the Seinfeld “Antidentite” episode.
At one point in my teaching a large class a student asked a question and started by addressing me as “Doctor” or maybe it was “Professor”. I stopped him and said that this was too formal. And that they didn’t know me well enough to call me “Joey” (as my parents did when I was little) or “Joe”. So the solution was that when they asked a question they should address me as “um” or “er” or “say” or “excuse me”, and if they wanted to be particularly honorific they could use all four. Later in the quarter I did in fact hear some students ask questions by starting out “um, er, say, excuse me …”
As a long-time teacher (without a PhD), I have never been terribly impressed by the ed courses I was required to take and by the Ed.D.’s who taught them and who had often never never been in an ordinary classroom. That said, I suspect Jill Biden has been an excellent classroom teacher and if she wants to use Dr. who am I to stop her.
Like Jill Biden, I have four degrees: a Bachelor’s in music, two Master’s (music and German), and a Ph.D. (German). I worked just as long and hard as many M.D.s do to get my degrees and have every right to use the title. That said, when I worked as a substitute teacher in high schools, I tended to use “Dr.” only when I was subbing in German classes, but otherwise “Ms.” because too many kids asked medical questions. A few of them knew the difference and were proud of themselves for knowing that. I could never have called my professors by their first names, even in grad school. Only rarely do I use the title, normally when someone (most often male) is being patronizing or otherwise not taking me seriously. That gets a totally different reaction, which is ridiculous, but that’s how sexist this society still is.
Woodrow Wilson had a Ph.D. I guess he could have been addressed as Dr. President rather than Mr. President.
I worked as hard for my PhD as any medical student. When I was doing my clinical internship, I was putting in as many hours a week as any resident, and I was being paid $.35 an hour more than the janitors.
I asked my students to call me Linda.
I asked my patients to call me Linda, except when I was doing a postdoc, and the owner of the clinic where I was insisted that all the clinical staff be addressed as “Doctor”, even by our colleagues. His house, his rules, although I was never very comfortable with it.
Where I used the title “Doctor”, and still do, is in situations where I am likely to be demeaned or written off. If I needed to be put through to a colleague in the hospital, I’d get action if I said, “This is Doctor…”, whereas if I said, “This is Linda…”, whoever answered the phone would blow me off.
And, it is very useful when dealing with assholes. So, as far as Dr. Biden is concerned, bravo to her for insisting, when dealing with the media, that her education be respected. If the author of that article doesn’t like it, he should go suck a lemon.
L
PS: I’m elitist and proud of it. Anyone who uses the term “elite” as a pejorative should be required to explain, in detail, why mediocrity is so much better than excellence.
I wish there was still a way to *like* your comment. 🙂
I think you just found it!
*Everyone* is an elitist when their health or wealth is on the line. Would the people who use the word as a term of abuse really not care whether the doctor performing critical and difficult spinal surgery on them was at the bottom of their graduating class, if they had the choice to get instead the top graduate with decades experience doing that particular kind of operation? Would you rather fly through horrific turbulence with a mediocre pilot, as vs. Chesley Sullenberger? Or have a third rater do your taxes, rather than a virtuoso CPA? And so on and on. Whenever I hear people sneering at elitism, I just mentally attach a little ‘hypocritical poseur’ sticky note next to their name….
That’s Capt. Sullenberger to you!
If memory serves me, he insists on and prefers “Sully.”
+1
I recall, many years ago, we recruited a junior clerk whose name was ‘Lord Buggins’ – his first name was actually ‘Lord’ (and Buggins is a surname I have used to anonymize him).
It seemed pretentious. Now you could argue that a PhD is earned… but nowadays they are not so rare in the UK, and outside an academic setting also seem pretentious.
My father, a chemist, earned his PhD with Linus Pauling at Cal Tech. He worked for many years in an industrial chemistry research lab where he was one of only two PhDs, the other being Dr. Abrams. They universally were referred to as Dr. A and Dr. D.
Funny story. In my undergraduate degree, my sociology Prof was one of the only two female Phd’s in her discipline in North America. In one class she was talking about what prompted her to switch to her maiden name professionally (it was a class in Women’s Studies). She had been at a conference where everyone else was introduced as Professor this and Professor that and, when it came to her, it was Mrs. Rosenblum. (Ah, the open sexism of the 70’s). One of the students spoke up and said that if she had the Professor’s qualifications she would insist on being called Dr. Black. To which Dr. Black replied, ‘Oh no, as a Phd you never use ‘Doctor’ unless you have your Phd in something stupid like Education.’
I have no problem with people being addressed by their doctoral titles if it’s in the context of their speciality. I always addressed my BA tutors as Dr Kent, Dr Wayne and Dr Dwek: it would never have occurred to me to use their first names.
But I draw the line at calling yourself a Doctor if it’s in a subject that has nothing to do with your job. One of my former colleagues in my HMG Ministry had a Chemistry PhD, and insisted on being called Doctor even though he was basically a pen-pusher. Not quite right.
So although Epstein may be a misogynist, and is certainly a patronising git, I don’t think that, as a First Lady, Jill Biden should use the title of Doctor.
We need to use that excellent British word “git” more often over here. Fantastic.
D.A.
NYC
The dissing, let alone the outright ignoring,
within the 19th, the 20th and yet, still,
the 21st Centuries of the contents within
the brains of girls and women continues to
astound — — and to anger — — me.
When I, Dr Maas, BSN, DVM, PhD, told some two
decades’ time ago a roomful of all men socially gathered
that … … THE O N E greatest invention .E V E R. was / is
the Birth Control PILL, its invention ‘ conceived ‘ of
and funded by two women, only one of these very many
men paid my revelation any heed, let alone, agreement.
I was, one more time yet again, astounded at all
of their instantiations: the railroad, airplanes, concrete,
electricity, languages, et cetera, et cetera.
When men, and too damned many women, bloviate
on and on in re the accomplishments of men during these
three centuries, let alone during ALL o’th’ millennia before
these 300 – some years ? when sexual reproduction
by way of girls and women made pregnant from apparently
exalted spermatozoan haploid gametes and, thus, also made
vastly busied for months’ and years’ time … … by that same ?
Then, I know that these people have NO fucking idea = squat =
of how much work / of how much personal = hers = sacrifice
goes in to that mothering deal + her acquisition of
a n y formal educations.
AS with abortions of lumps of tissue which are withIN ONLY her,
just like with lumps of any other tissues within
ANY other O N E human being, the decision
of what entitling honorific ANY so – qualified O N E uses ?
THAT, when and where, … … is for her, and ONLY her, to decide.
I am soooo, so exhausted from being S H A M E D for my brain /
my degrees. That I am a(ny) sort of ” threat ” to the ego(s)
of a(ny) man who does not have an .earned. PhD or other .earned.
doctorate.
For what I am so grateful ? ! THAT I was born withIN a Century
at when girls and women were F I N A L L Y, over ALL o’th’ previous
¡ millennia !, ” permitted ” / were ” allowed ” to seek for themselves
such knowledge, let alone, such formal degrees. Finally.
Think i ) of OVER ALL of TIME OVER ALL the World the personae
who were girls and women UNable / NOT permitted to KNOW stuffz and
ii ) FLIP / REVERSE: IF this C R I M E over all the World over all of
Time had been F O R C E D, instead, upon … … boys and men.
Blue
It is likely that there are many accomplishments of women that were (are) attributed to men, who were (are) happy to take the credit.
I agree with you that much female talent has been squandered and wasted, but I think in addition to that, much female talent has expressed itself and contributed to society and the body of knowledge without documentation.
As I said above, it’s when I’m not being taken seriously that I am more likely to beat people over the head with my education.
L
The point of my statement in re THE PILL is because of
the HISTORIC S C I E N C E which … … it .finally.finally.,
millennia after millennia after millennia, granted TO girls and
TO women: We were / are, after all of our human beings’ lifetimes,
NO longer literally S E N T E N C E D to ONLY TWO choices with
regard to an activity that is never, thankfully, going to cease: sex.
AND W H Y, thus, THE PILL .IS. THE SINGLE, ONE GREATEST
INVENTION … … .E V E R.
Its IMPACT … … Worldwide Over ALL of Time.
UNmatched by … … A N Y other.
Those two choices ? i) total abstinence OR ii) she is, for ~30 to 40 years’
worth of her lifetime, actually S E N T E N C E D to pregnancy after
pregnancy after pregnancy ad infinitum. Through which Birthing Times
she, in R E A L I T Y, has had NO time NOR strength to pursue
… … A Thing Else, let alone, higher education – degrees. Yeah: THIS.
In late y2020, now, I personally know of F E W, of very, very few,
men who … … GET this.
Any woman with an earned PhD or other earned doctorate ?
She is, T H U S, entitled to do with its honorific
however and whatever and for HOWEVER LOOOONG and LONG
… … she wants to do with it. Yes, she is … … E N T I T L E D.
Blue
+1
To me from m’Floridian friend last evening
in re the millennia Worldwide of
” pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy
… … ad infinitum, ”
” IF it is not HIS problem,
THEN … … it is NOT … … a … … problem. ”
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm
Blue
Dr. is an indication that the person entitled to use it worked hard to achieve an educational level that most human’s don’t achieve. It is entirely justified to use that honorific as a reward for all that hard work. The only folks who should be called out for using that title are those who have a PhD in bullshit from the likes or Oral Roberts University…. and of course, those who are lying about having been granted one.
The fact they give ANY degrees in theology grinds my gears, let alone a PhD in the ol’ b/s. iron age fairy tales. Islam also has a complicated set of similar “intellectual achievements”.
Intellectual rigor, sayonara.
D.
Chiropractors calling themselves “Dr.” are what rankle me.
Someone may have noted this already, but it is known that Jill Biden’s STUDENTS call her “Dr. Jill”, so that is not sexist, misogynistic or patronizing. What IS sexist/misogynistic/patronizing (in my opinion) is the parenthetical “hard-earned though it may have been”, like a Ph.Ed. is not a serious degree. And so, what about all the other non-medical doctorates, mostly held by men, eh? I want to reach through the link and slap him.
Yes, but did the author KNOW that her students called her “Dr. Jill”? If he didn’t, it’s patronizing, just as if someone who didn’t know me wrote an op-ed calling me “Dr. Jerry.”
Has a PhD is entitled to call themselves Doctor. In a professional setting it’s absolutely fine to call yourself a doctor with a PhD.
In a professional compacity I will always introduce myself as Dr Kieran and then follow up with I like to be called Kieran. In any other capacity I will go by Mr even though I hate being Mistered, as Mr was always my grandfather. My dad hated being Mistered as well and always corrected people to call him Paul.
I’ve a friend who always calls MD’s not real doctors and PhD’s not real doctors to get a rise out of them.
One of my graduate students was paralyzed by indecision about what to all me during his first year in my lab. He hesitated to use my first name, as other grad students did, but he also thought “Dr.” or “Professor” and last name too formal. As a result, for a year or more he just didn’t call me anything.
A bit later, I acquired a half-interest in a sailboat (gaff-cutter rig) and sometimes took my students out
to sail and to fish. From then on, of course, I insisted on being addressed as “Admiral”. I would put
that down as my personal pronoun, except unfortunately it is not a pronoun, although it should be.
Admirable! I always like it when Marcy called Peppermint Patty “Sir.”
When I was a PhD student, there was an elderly Nobel laureate with a knighthood in the department. On the few occasions I spoke to him, I called him “Professor Katz” as “Sir Bernard” somehow seemed too informal but I am not sure what the correct protocol was.
When I first moved to the US, I was confused when my optometrist was referred to as “Dr X”: I assumed he was a medical doctor. I didn’t know that optometry is a doctoral degree in the states. In the UK, it’s a bachelor’s degree although a UK-trained optometrist who teaches in the states told me that the courses are pretty much the same. So can a UK-educated optometrist working in the US call herself “Dr”??
Do US optometrists write a PhD? I think it is already confusing enough as is, without optometrists calling themselves ‘Dr’.
By his own criteria, she can call herself Dr: she delivered a child (her daughter).
+1 🙂
The material in the math thesis that ‘got my Ph.D.’ is and/or has been understood even in a small amount by something like the fraction 1/80,000,000 of humans. Same goes for any research I did over quite a few years. I am not the least interested in admiration from anyone who doesn’t, or even who isn’t aware of the relative eminence of the guy who was my supervisor.
And for teaching, well, as one of my colleagues said after he had been unsuccessfully nominated for a teaching award, referring to himself: “an also-ran in a non-event”. And I’m not poo-pooing the importance and effort which should go into teaching at every level. And he certainly didn’t. But think about it in a clear-headed way.
It ‘s time people appreciated actual accomplishments that they know something about, instead of fussing about words. She probably has a perfectly good practical reason for having that “Dr.” in front of her name, and good for her. As for me, I don’t have. I actually doubt that any of the universities I worked for over a period of about 45 years (well, I’m still an emeritus) ever had any proof at all that the word “Dr.”, which would have appeared on employment forms, wasn’t maybe fraudulent, except for re-assurances from a few of my colleagues, if they ever asked.
Actually, now that I think of it, I took a leave of absence without pay before my 1st sabbatical was due, and taught 1970-71 back ay UManchester in UK where my doctorate was done, so what I said just above is minorly false.
I wonder where vets fall in this pecking order. I always have called my missing cat’s vet “doctor”.
It is more the intent than the actual honorific that seems to matter.
We used to take my daughter’s cat to a neighborhood vet who always referred to our cat as “my patient”. He had, by the way, a PhD in molecular biology, and could therefore have gone by the title of Dr Newman—or even Dr. Dr. Newman. After a short time in research, Newman had gone back to vet school to obtain a veterinary degree. I had actually corresponded briefly with him when he was in grad school, and was quite astonished to find him practicing veterinary medicine in my neighborhood.
Your Dr Dr reminds me of the joke about supposedly typical continental prof in the old days whose postdocs would follow him back and forth on the stage to erase the blackboard and maybe polish his shoes–
Herr Professor Dr. Dr. Blimpschonwimplearoni
But none of the math stars in those days seemed at all like that in reality.
Maybe only theology profs!
There is something different about people who insist on everyone using such titles outside the context of their professional life.
My Dad has a PhD (history) and a military rank of General, but always asked to be called by his first name outside of military settings. My wife has an M.D. and does the same. I have both my retired military rank and a civilian captain’s license, but would never insist on being called “captain” except on a ship where I was signed on as such, or in some related professional context. That is just the environment in which we were raised.
I guess many of us also know people with honorary degrees who insist on being addressed by that title. I am not sure if it comes from insecurity or narcissism. That certainly is unlikely to be the case for everyone who wants to be addressed that way in their normal lives.
The interesting thing is there is little effective recourse to those who don’t meet our insistence.
It was poorly worded. But there does seem to be a certain personality type involved.
In my experience these people have been been few and far between. Perhaps I could count them one one hand say since the early seventies, certainly can’t name them.
On my work business card I have PhD, I worked for a large company. Would I put PhD on a personal card? Would I have a problem addressing Jerry as Dr Coyne on campus, no. Would it bother me or would I think differently of Prof . Coyne differently if he introduced himself to me as Dr Coyne, say at a secular conference? Why would I?
Much ado about nothing.
Though I can’t say I’ve asked her, I imagine Jill Biden would prefer something like “Jill” in more relaxed social settings as well. The point is, we’re not talking about relaxed social settings. We’re talking about how people are addressed in news reports and introduced at formal events.
Most major news coverage still gave Michael Flynn’s name as Lt. Gen. Flynn or Retired General Michael Flynn (outside headlines where word count is an issue), even after he retired and the news had nothing to do with his past service in the Army. Medical doctors, reverends and clergymen, and most PhDs get their titles used in formal non-career settings.
So why would we insist on instead addressing a First Lady with the formality of a Super Bowl party?
As Merriam-Webster pointed out out, “Doctor” was a title for medieval theologians and Renaissance academics before it was used by modern medical doctors. So there’s no reason to deny academic doctorates the right to a title they have earned.
Leaving aside all the questions of sexism, misogyny, and norms on titles, what really strikes me is that this is an incredibly petty, churlish, condescending, frankly, assholish, article, and I’m shocked that it got published anywhere, let alone in a major paper. There’s no serious debate here, just whining and demeaning of other people’s theses, which the author clearly knows nothing about, other than its title. It this is representative of the work Mr. Epstein does in general, I’m not surprised in the slightest he got the boot.
I totally agree. What’s with the WSJ??
At my conferences, no one uses title (mathematics). Our department doesn’t use it much either; you sometimes get called that by students and sometimes it is used in campus communication.
In the days of old, it was usually the old guard that self-referred that way.
And no, I do not use that title socially, at all.
I guess I’m gonna disagree just a little bit here.
While in high school, I watched up-close as my dad earned an Ed.D. at a nationally-recognized US university by taking (1) three semesters of courses for one year, then (2) going home to his full-time administrative job at a big urban school board and puttering around with his “research” on the weekends. The research was part-time data collection using surveys of teachers’ self-reports about attitudes and teaching practices at several schools. My dad’s professors in this well-known graduate school of education were not researchers or scholars — more like sybarites. Not before or since did he ever come home from “committee meetings” wipe-out drunk. Hanging out with the doctors of education was the closest my dad ever came to having my mom divorce him. Forty-five years later, after my own long career in academics, I’ve never seen a more sorry basis for a doctorate than the “graduate education” provided schools of education.
So I sorta agree: in general, an Ed.D. should not call themselves “Doctor” outside a school of education. My dad’s Ed.D. was not something he should have been especially proud of outside of a professional setting. His degree did not mark him as especially well educated or well trained. Nobody called him “Doctor”, and I would have died of embarrassment if they had.
But maybe other Ed.D. degree programs are rigorous and taught by brilliant scholars. I haven’t seen one like that but I guess they might exist.
And it’s still a doctorate. And I agree the criticism of Jill Biden in particular seems patronizing (“kiddo”) and sexist.
I almost never used it – except for simplicity – when I did research since it is potentially confusing.
If chiroquacks can call themselves “doctor” so can PhDs.
During the unfortunate year I spent as an undergrad at the evangelical school Bob Jones University the dean of students was Jim Berg. He made all the students and faculty call him Dr Berg, and even sold Christian books using his title. In actuality, at that time he only had a honorary doctorate, from Bob Jones University. It sounded like they gave him an honorary doctorate around the time they promoted him to dean of students. It was quite a joke on campus.
Whenever I drive to our local hospital to take something to my spouse at her office, or to pick up the car to take to the shop, or whatever, and I park in doctor’s parking, I say to myself, “I AM a doctor.” But I wouldn’t do it if the doctor’s parking were ever full in the first place
Reasonable people can differ on the “doctor” title. My “Doctorate of Jurisprudence” (a standard law degree) wouldn’t make me even dream of calling myself Doctor….. PhDs though… maybe.
But the “kiddo” bit, that’s b.s. And sexist. He’d never say that about “Dr’ Phil who has a doctorate in charlatanism, ignorance, bad advice and grifterism. Oh. Same as Dr Oz.
I’m calling shenanigans on the joker who wrote that.
D.A., (J.D.) NYC
If you’ve got a doctorate then you’ve earned the right to call yourself doctor. That is your title and I don’t think there’s anything to question about that. Someone might choose whether or not use it but that is up to them and it’s completely inappropriate for someone to tell a PhD that they cannot use the title they earned through years of hard work. I would think the default should be that if someone knows that a person who they are not on familiar terms with has earned a title, then, if they are going to use a title, they should address that person by their highest title unless advised otherwise.
Agreed (I’m not a doctor). My sister used to complain about anyone other than a medical practitioner using the title “Dr.”, in spite of the fact that most general practitioners in the UK do not have a doctorate, and the title is a courtesy. All this changed when her son earned a PhD in astrophysics 🙂
My interpretation is that this was a conservative writer looking for a “Let’s hate on the Bidens!” angle, who probably thought he’d picked up on something that would catch on in that there is an elite element to using titles like ‘Dr’. I think the phrases like ‘kiddo’ were probably supposed to be ‘Straight talk, from a salt of the earth person who doesn’t put fancy schmancy titles on their name!” I think the accusations of sexism may be unfair, but then, it’s not like this writer had great motives either way – I think he was looking for a click baity cheap shot.
“Doctor” is the Latin for “teacher”, and the title historically denoted a mastery of a subject at a level that meant you could teach it to others. In this sense, Dr Biden is certainly entitled to be called Doctor.
When, or whether, the recipient of a doctoral-level degree should use their title outside a professional setting, is an interesting one. When I was close to completing my own Ph.D., my adviser offered this wise advice: Never use your title when checking into a hotel, because if another guest falls ill, you’ll be woken at 2 a.m. to deal with it. Likewise when booking a flight.
These days, the only person who calls me Dr Harper is my wife, and then only in an ironic way or when I’m in trouble 🙂
Let’s make this more complicated. In the UK and some other commonwealth countries medical “doctors” actually graduate with two bachelor degrees (bachelor degrees, surgery and medicine). When I was doing my doctoral studies at Oxford a close friend and house partner was completing his medical degrees. He actually said that his Doctor title was really honorary while mine would be real!
A few other comments: in the UK veterinarians never use the title Doctor (they graduate as Fellows of the Royal College of Veterinarians – FRCV). Dentists do not use the title Doctor either, nor do ophthalmologists. If a physician passes the exams to become a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons the Doctor title is dropped and replaced with Mr!
In my professional day job I’m called Paul and all my colleagues are known by their first names.
Ophthalmologists (not to be confounded with optometrists) are ‘MD’s that have specialised in ophthalmology, which includes surgery. They do not use the ‘Dr’ because they are surgeons, hence: ‘Mr’ or ‘Ms’ in England (and I guess that goes for the whole of the UK).
Note, most of my colleagues simply call me by my first name too.
I apologise. I’m a molecular virologist so can, wrongly, claim to be ignorant of this distinction as my eyes still work.
No need to apologise, there is a lot of confusion.
It is pretty simple though: If they operate cataracts, glaucoma, squints and tumors and the like, they are ophthalmologists (and MDs), if they adapt glasses, contact lenses or prisms they are optometrists (not MDs). Of course, in order to mess things up some ophthalmologists do the latter too.
The most notorious ophthalmologist today is President Assad of Syria. I always feel (just a hunch, no evidence) he’d rather be operating cataracts than committing genocide. He’s pretty bad at the latter activity anyway: about a million deaths in eight years, and half of those his own Alawite young males. Real genociders laugh him out of the park.
I don’t get it. In Germany, it is standard for people with a doctorate to wear the “Dr.” in front of their name, regardless of whether it is a PhD, MD, Doktoringenieur or one of the many other doctoral degrees.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor#Unterscheidung_nach_F%C3%A4chern
I got my doctorate (botany) when I was 48, so I have some idea of what it is and isn’t worth.
Before I got the Ph.D., I was an expert in some things. I taught at university part-time, temporarily, for eight years with my Master’s degree. Now I’ve learned a lot and am expert at different things, and have worked part-time or temporarily at universities. So the Ph.D. didn’t make a lot of difference, though it was required for some of these teaching positions. The work I did while getting it taught me a lot and I’m proud of that, but the degree per se is not all that important though occasionally necessary.
I would never choose to be Dr. Wilson in regular social situations. Although my colleagues without the degree know more than me about a lot of our work, I put Dr. Wilson on my business cards because it may impress potential clients. (My colleagues and I talked this over.) Initially I didn’t use Dr. Wilson in the classroom, but I started to after discussion with another female Ph.D. botanist. She pointed out that women often aren’t respected as much as men when they work in the same field and have the same degrees, and that using the degree helps build a habit of respect.
(This led to occasional amusement because the Teaching Assistant in my last class had worked for me outside the classroom before and was in the habit of addressing me by my first name. He tried to comply with my request to call me Dr. Wilson in class, but occasionally he’d slip up. We’d smile at his, “Er, Dr. Wilson!” Usually the students were oblivious.)
Should Jill Biden be called Dr. Biden? I don’t care. If I got to choose, I’d say that people who meet her for the first time should call her that to be polite and that she shouldn’t insist on it.
Is Joseph Epstein an misogynist, condescending ass? Indeed. Or at least he did a superb job of seeming so in this article.
Jill Biden’s work does not deserve respect.
But judge for yourselves: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20407226/bidens-dissertation.pdf
For what reasons? You don’t like the subject? There’s some argument that you find unconvincing? You don’t like the format?