In about 20 minutes, at 9 a.m. Pacific time and 11 a.m. Chicago time, I’ll doing an hourlong interview with Stuart Campbell on his “Consider This” show at KZYX, public radio in Northern California. You can find a link to the live feed here (click on “listen live” button to the right or tab at upper left), and it will also be archived on the station’s Jukebox site.
It is in fact archived now. Just click on the screenshot below and press “play” or “download” when you get there. My bit begins at 10:14.
We’ll be talking about Faith versus Fact.
Holy shit — the host is openly unhesitatingly endorsing of the thesis! He’s one of us!
b&
Really good radio show and PCC was great. A whole hour about Faith vs Fact.
New word – De-education. Kind of like PTSD treatment for the excessively religious.
As always, nice job by Jerry Coyne. And, I agree, the host was excellent as well.
Steve Kern, Indianapolis, IN
Although open exchange of ideas is generally a good thing, I think this conversation benefited greatly by there being no call-ins. Well done, KZYX.
That rubbed ma belleh! But now I got to put noms in there…
Great job Jerry!
You sounded really good-
Jerry, you said the historicity of Adam and Eve is a dogma of the Catholic Church. I have learned just recently that this is not true.
Klaus von Stosch, professor of Catholic theology in Paderborn, Germany, gave an interview in which he explained that the Catholic dogmas allow a wide range of beliefs. The catechism is not to be taken too serious. He says he maintains a fully rational version of Catholicism, in which:
God does not intervene in the world.
Adam and Eve are not historical.
Original Sin is not inherited.
Mary was no biological virgin.
The tomb of Jesus was not empty.
Link (German): https://ketzerpodcast.wordpress.com/2015/10/11/kreuzverhoer-der-theologe-prof-dr-klaus-von-stosch/
Well, it’s taken seriously enough that many, many theologians are pondering how to comport the “historicity” of Adam and Eve with the many other people alive a long time ago. And if it’s not taken seriously, then one cannot also take seriously the inheritance of original sin by the descendants of Adam and Eve. Just because there’s a renegade professor of theology doesn’t mean it’s not taken seriously. Remember, that bit was written by the Pope. You can find professors of Catholic theology that will say anything contravening the general teaching of the church.
Also, let me remind you that in Pope Pius XII’s 1950 encyclical Humani Generis, he left NO room for waffling about the historicity of Adam and Eve:
That’s pretty clear, no?
Jerry has already pointed out the last papal encyclical on this has left no room for doubt on the official position of the church.
The catechism of the catholic church is it’s official teaching. You can read it on the vatican web site.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1C.HTM
See paragraph 390 which says:
“Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents”.
and many of the followinng sections, which discuss Adam’s sin particularly.
Your theologians position on these matters is WAY out of line with catholic dogma. People have been excommunicated or otherwise marginalized for taking such stances in the past.
Oh, and by the way, if he takes the other positions you assert (God not intervening etc.) and still calls himself a catholic, I doubt if his position is as rational as all that :-).
I have asked my friends and two internet forums (German). There were just about six answers and only one of them said that v.Stosch is not a good catholic.
The typical answers were peevishly informing me that sixty year old encyclicals and catechisms have no impact on their believe. They do not believe in a virgin Mary in the biological sense, and they do not think that Adam an Eve actually lived.
They don’t want to change the creed, the dogmas or the catechism and have their ways to reinterpret or to ignore the words.
But the original question was whether the historicity of Adam and Eve is a dogma. I think v.Stosch was right when he said it is not. An encyclical and a catechism do not have the authority of a dogma. Sorry for the pedantry.
I am only half way through listening but the host seems to be struggling to actually form actual questions. Jerry is having to come up with his own questions and then answer them