“Reader Mark” sent me a link to an article from Saturday’s New York Times, “Norway has a new passion: ghost hunting,” with a somewhat challenging line in his email:
You might want to think twice before ever again holding up those ‘Scandinavian countries’ as role models of rationality.
Now I don’t know whether to construe that as a lighthearted comment or a rather snarky one, for the Times article doesn’t much affect my opinion that Scandinavian countries as more rationally run than, say, the U.S. First of all, the article is about only one country, Norway. And what it says is that belief in ghosts, spirits, and woo is increasing:
Ghosts, or at least belief in them, have been around for centuries but they have now found a particularly strong following in highly secular modern countries like Norway, places that are otherwise in the vanguard of what was once seen as Europe’s inexorable, science-led march away from superstition and religion.
Sadly, there are no survey data supporting that claim, just anecdotes like the popularity of a Norwegian television show called “The Power of Spirits”. Here are all the “data” that the article gives:
While churches here may be largely empty and belief in God, according to opinion polls, in steady decline, belief in, or at least fascination with, ghosts and spirits is surging.
And, of course, ministers rush in to argue that this belief in ghosts is a sign that atheists must replace abjured religion with some kind of woo, with the implication that Ghost Woo is worse than Holy Ghost Woo:
“God is out but spirits and ghosts are filling the vacuum,” said Roar Fotland, a Methodist preacher and assistant professor at the Norwegian School of Theology in Oslo. Instead of slowly eliminating religion, as Sigmund Freud, Karl Marx and other theorists predicted, modernity has only channeled religious feelings in unexpected ways, Mr. Fotland said.
“Belief in God, or at least a Christian God, is decreasing but belief in spirits is increasing,” he added, describing this as part of a general resurgence of “premodern religion.”
And that, of course, is the point of “reader Mark,” who claims that I’m no longer entitled to argue that Scandinavia is more rational than the U.S., even though the article’s about Norway and the head of the nation’s Humanist Organization says that this is all tripe—that religion’s still dying out.
Well, first of all, how pervasive is Norway’s belief in ghosts compared to, say, the hyper-religious U.S.? We don’t know. What we do know is that many Americans believe in ghosts and woo. A 2005 Gallup poll shows that 32% of Americans believe in ghosts, while 19% are unsure, while 37% believe in haunted houses. If the article’s thesis is right, that should be lower than similar beliefs of Norwegians. A HuffPo/YouGov poll from just two years ago showed that 45% of Americans believe in ghosts or the notion that the spirits of the dead can return to stalk the Earth. A Pew Research poll, also taken in 2013, shows that 29% of Americans feel they’ve been in touch with the dead, and 18% that they’ve seen a ghost. How does that compare with Norway, much less with Scandinavia? I have no idea, and neither does Reader Mark.
Before we can claim that belief in ghosts has replaced the decline in religion in Scandinavia, we need to have surveys of such beliefs when religion was more pervasive in Scandinavia, and compare that data to beliefs now. Until we have those data, we can’t credibly claim that as religion wanes, the vacuum is filled with woo.
But of course it’s entirely possible that there’s been an uptick in woo. I don’t doubt for a moment that some people have a need for “spiritual” stuff, and if they give up their faith, or as society becomes less religious, love of woo may rise. But I do doubt that it would increase tremendously, which would have to be the case since the proportion of atheists in Norway is estimated by Phil Zuckerman as between 31% and 72% (see p. 56 of link). So I’ll simply ask Scandinavian readers (those from Norway in particular) to weigh in with their own beliefs and experiences, for that is all the Times article gives.
Finally, belief in ghosts isn’t near as inimical to human welfare as is belief in God and His moral strictures. I think American society, not to mention many Muslim lands, would be greatly improved if they’d give up Allah for Caspar. After all, we know that religiosity is negatively correlated with societal welfare across many lands (and in states within the U.S.), and as well-being wanes from year to year, religiosity increases a step behind. So yes, even granting the dubious premise that Scandinavia is ridden with ghostophiles, it’s still an area that is more empathic and run far more rationally than is the U.S.
The familiar bleat of the religious – you believe in stupid shit as well, therefore you are just a demented as we are.
Assuming that those ghost hunting Fins actually exist in any meaningful numbers, get back to me when they start denying equal rights to women and homosexuals based on said alleged beliefs.
I couldn’t find any relation to Finland in the article. Surely it’s ghost hunting in Norway?
One of the funniest lines from the article:
“A clairvoyant sent by the ghost television show, she said, solved the mystery: a dead German soldier who had worked in the same building during the 1940-1945 Nazi occupation of Norway was still on the premises and kept messing with the brochures.”
Apparantly, dead German soldiers don’t have better things to do than haunting a local tourist office. The afterlife in Norway isn’t very interesting.
I couldn’t find any relation to Finland in the article. Surely it’s ghost hunting in Norway?
One of the funniest lines from the article:
“A clairvoyant sent by the ghost television show, she said, solved the mystery: a dead German soldier who had worked in the same building during the 1940-1945 Nazi occupation of Norway was still on the premises and kept messing with the brochures.”
Apparantly, dead German soldiers don’t have better things to do than haunting a local tourist office. The afterlife in Norway isn’t very interesting.
Yeah, sorry, the figures are accurate but I slipped in two places. Fixed now, thanks.
Also, I fail to see how equating the need to believe in ghosts to that of the need to believe in god is in anyway complimentary of religion. On the contrary, it just shows some people will believe in anything.
Well, they’re both in the same basic category of supernatural, in that mind and its ‘powers’ are thought of as separate from brain and physics.
Only one of them is a religion that tells you how to live your life and the life of others.
Oh yeah? The supernatural goes anywhere and can’t be controlled or restrained. Wait till the “ghosts” begin to reveal new information — and start making accusations and demands. They always do, sooner or later. They need to be propiated and placated because they’re so very important, given high status.
A world ruled by paranormal superstitions ultimately isn’t going to free anyone.
At least it is easier to ignore superstitions than those organized believers who want to take control over everything. Hell, people ignore real limitations all of the time. I don’t see superstition as a bad of a problem than organized religion.
It wouldn’t be “ruled” by paranormal superstition. How ever the same cannot be said for the billions who follow organized religions.
Not to mention the NY Times enfant terrible right wing commentator and religious fanatic Ross Douthat just had a long essay on how ghosts will destroy secularism.
Religious believers are so intent on disproving the facts they trip over their own contradictions
How does that even make sense? We should have the government endorse religion because ghosts? It makes no sense. Its also practically unnecessary; if there was strong empirical evidence that everyone could access that convincingly demonstrated the existence of ghosts, nobody would need the government to tell them ‘believe in ghosts’ before they believed. They’d believe with or without government endorsement.
There is a reason why some sects of Christianity want govt recognition. It makes them truly “legitimate” in the eyes of their followers.
I’m from Norway, and it’s certainly not my impression that many people here believe in ghosts (I don’t know any who does). As you say, the evidence presented in that article is anecdotal, and regarding the mentioned tv show, I know many people just watch it for the freak factor (as seeing grown-ups sneaking around in «haunted» buildings and panicking every time a door creaks or whatever can be quite amusing). I.e. it’s just one of those «so bad it’s good» kind of shows. It might also be the case that many people are fascinated with the idea of ghosts without actually believing they exist. I, for instance, can find reading about the Loch Ness monster and similar «mysteries», quite intriguing, even if I not for a moment believe there is anything to them. It’s just another form of fiction, I suppose.
I have lived in Norway 35 years, since I was 21, first in the atheist east and then the Bible Belt west. The Bible Belt is atheist too, only less so. I would expect survey data to show an increasing, yet maximum less than around 15 % woo believers in the north, say north of 65 degrees. When I arrive home from work I’ll search for surveys. Interesting to see how far off the mark my guess is.
I don’t see a direct relation between those believing in ghosts and religion. Both are not evidence based but I would need to see more than just a popularity of a TV show or a poll asking the basic question.
Do the ghost believers come together each week to worship the ghost? Is any of it tax exempt or lead by other people in funny clothing? To they have a political agenda that dislikes gay people, pickets abortion clinics? Do they knock on the front door and hand out literature about this belief. Please let me know if I need to take any of the serious? If any of their ghost hunting involves dressing in white clothing and pointed hats, we may have a problem.
Interesting since the Bible warns against speaking with the dead. That would be necromancy.
I suppose if you are one who believes in ghosts, then talking to them would be the next step and why not. The religious are always talking to g*d or pretending to. Funny thing is – it’s always a one-way conversation. One way conversations rarely last and generally end in divorce.
One wonders how ghosts even fit into the mythology of Islam, Christianity and Judaism? Certainly in Christianity any who die stay dead until the Second Resurrection which isn’t supposed to happen until a thousand years after the Second coming. But then why expect believers to be knowledgeable in their own mythology?
Put “holy” in front of “ghost” and it somehow becomes respectable (and tax deductible).
If you hear crowing and clucking
inside the walls of your house it
must be a poultrygeist.
I used to hear slithering and thumping in the ceiling. But I think it was a possum.
(New Zealand / Oz ‘possum’, not the US kind)
cr
And if you hear the bubble from condenser it must be 90 % proof of spirit rebirth.
“A” condenser.
I don’t have the original studies now at hand, but the secondary sources suggest that around 10-15% of Finns think that it likely that there are ghosts and they can have influence on us. That is globally a small figure.
Alas, there have been studies in Sweden that suggest that maybe 20% believe in ghosts, possibly because of popular culture that does not exactly encourage rational and skeptical attitude towards woo.
Well, since those countries were 100% religious not that long ago, it’s clear that not all believers in God have been replaced by believers in ghosts.
I think there is a real difference between religion and folklore, which would include belief in ghosts. The powerful influence of folklore is often underappreciated in many societies. It is usually harmless and fanciful. But, the cultural roots are deep and beliefs are often hard to give up completely. I recall just last year some road construction projects in Iceland were subject to protests due to concerns about disturbing elves.
The notion that the dead have spirits hanging around the living for either good or bad acts has been around for many, many centuries. Some cultures performed rituals to keep the dead from injuring the living post-death. Halloween and Day of the Dead are leftovers of this. Other cultures buried the deceased under the floor of their home to keep the benevolence of the family member in-house, so to speak. Some cultures buried sacrifices under doorjambs or foundations of buildings for protection. I would hazard a guess that most of the worlds’ funeral practices subconsciously are done to ensure that spirits of the dead will not hang around, but will depart.
Yep.
/@
From the Iceland Review:
“Icelanders seem much more open to phenomena like dreaming the future, forebodings, ghosts and elves than other nations,” associate folklore professor Terry Gunnell said.
Only 13 percent of participants in the study said it is impossible that elves exist, 19 percent found it unlikely, 37 percent said elves possibly exist, 17 percent found their existence likely and eight percent definite. Five percent did not have an opinion on the existence of elves.
As a recovering wannabe ghost hunter here in the US, there was never anything to suggest that ghosts or spirits were an alternative to religion, and in most cases, was complementary to it. There was a large movement of Catholic “discerners” who could supposedly see spirits in grainy photographs and held themselves up as gifted individuals because of this. Now, I do know a few people who were atheists/agnostics and ghost hunters (raises hand), but they were also more skeptical while allowing for the possibility of something cool happening. They were as agnostic about the nature of “paranormal” phenomenon as they were about god, and what they were dealing with was the prevalence of people reporting these issues and liked getting to the bottom of common ghost stories. It was ultimately my experience in this community that led me to staunch naturalism and where I learned about high standards of evidence. It was these standards, and my self-education in the science behind the supposed effects of “ghosts” (I.e. Infrared light, audio, pareidolia, electromagnetic fields, etc) that allowed me to become disenchanted with these ideas, and find reality a much cooler place to live in.
Norwegians watching ghosts on TV is nothing compared to the United States. Even if you take this article at face value, you could still hold them up as a far more rational country than the US, and a lack of religion has nothing to do with it, again, because the more credulous folks I encountered here in the states, were also the more religious, willing to turn a smear of light on a poorly lit digital photo into the ghost of their dearly departed Great Aunt Hilda. The whole idea of ghosts “crossing over” or rather, not “crossing over” is purely religious and in many cases the religious would convert these “ghosts” into demons and perform exorcisms or Native American Cleansing rituals (done it, don’t laugh!).
Seriously, if you want a trip into looneyville just google “orbs angels spirits” and count how many of these sites are religious versus secular. The top site gives several “explanations” for “orbs” and then states firmly that Christians don’t need proof of the Supernatural because they get that proof from the word of god.
I have seen two kind of “Ghost Hunters” the secular one and the religious one. Secular only use equipment, base on known scientific information, but to them ghosts or what we call ghosts still exist. The other type will use psychics and call in priests to do exorcisms. I know it sounds like little difference, but there it is.
Norwegian here. There are several problems with this. First of all, the claimed “around half a million viewers” every Sunday isn’t accurate. The ratings have actually fluctuated a lot throughout its seasons, and in 2014 the season premiere was seen by 343 000, while the second episode was seen by 252 000. This year, the season premiere was seen by 438 000, while 249 000 saw the second episode. It is also safe to say that many watch this program because it’s so utterly ridiculous.
Sources in Norwegian:
http://kampanje.com/archive/2014/03/seerflukt-for-andenes-makt/
http://kampanje.com/medier/2015/09/seerloft-for-farmen/
For comparison, a series called “Folkeopplysningen” (“Popular education”), an anti woo and pro science, skepticism and reason show, had a rating of over 600 000 viewers on several occasions over two seasons.
Sadly I think this article says more about the erosion of journalism at the NYT than it does about the erosion of non-belief in Norway. This is a total fluff piece, something you’d expect to read in PuffHo under the banner, “You’ll never belief what those rational Norwegians are up to now!”
I have a friend in Colorado who claims to be an atheist. She posted something on facebook about not knowing what to make of an article about strange ghostly image captured by a camera in an old building. When I responded snarkily about reporters being gullible, I learned that she believes in ghosts and thinks she has seen ghosts on several occasions. People can be rational about some things and still buy into woo in other areas.
Like the New York Times, I don´t have any data to support several of my claims, I can only bring my personal experiences, and a general feel to what I think might be going on.
James Randi visited Norway a few years ago, and he was suprised to see all the kinds of nonsense, and irrationality Norway has.
Here are some of the things he mentioned, along with a few points of my own (that he missed):
1. Television shows and books: A long running show called “Åndenes Makt” (“The Power of the Ghosts”) showcasing several incidents of “freaky” occurences attributed to the supernational. We had another show called “Fornemmelse av Mord” (“Premonitions of Murder”) where so-called psychics were to solve cold cases. In addition, several books by people involved with these shows, and others have been published.
2. Notable people fronting supernatural bullshit: A member of the royal familiy, Martha Louise, is the Deepak Chopra of Norway. She has education in alterantive medicine, she has a school where several different forms of alterantive medicine is being taught, and she has hosted a big conference with the “medium” Lisa Williams. She herself claims she is psychic, has supernational healing powers, and can talk to the dead.
Another person, which has garned a lot of attention in the press, is “Snåsamannen” who has allegedly healed thousands of people for different ailements. We unfortunately do have quite a few others as well.
3. Conferences and the like: In Stavanger there´s an annual “alterantive” conference that attracks thousands of people.
4. Lack of oversight and regulation of alterantive health treatments, and nutritional supplemants: It seems to me that we do have a very lax regulation and oversight of people who deal in nutrional supplemants. This include homeopathy, and various other treatments for a lot of different ailments. All over the country you have practioners of alternative practices.
Notably we do have some restrictions on advertising, but sanctions are not being enforced.
5. Belief in belif, and a lack of seperation of church and state: Most Norwegians belong to a religion of some kind (predominantly Christianity). However, I think there´s a strong mismatch between belonging to a church (officially), and actually believing in a god, and the other tenants of that faith. Churches do get funding from the state, and tax exemption. And even though we officially have a seperation between church and state, much of that seem symbolic.
6. Relgion vs. Science, and Evolution. vs. Creationism: “Sophisticated Theologians” claim there is no conflicnt, the two domains live in peaceful harmony, and deal with different issues. Again, I think there is a strong mismatch between that, and what “ordninary” religious people believe. At least one politician tried to force schools to teach Creationism. And several private school has little oversight into what they are teaching, and according to my supervisor some of these schools have dubious practices when it comes to teaching evolution.
7. Political Correctness, and Freedom of Speech: I think it is the Norwegian way to not be impolite, to try not offend, and to respect each other´s beliefs (not matter how silly or ridiculous). That is also the sense I get from watching the behaviors of our politicians. Politicians may pay lip service to freedom of speech, but there is inevitably always a “but” in there somewhere. Jens Stoltenberg, a former Prime Minster of Norway actually blamed (part) of the rioting and assult against our embessay in the wake of the Danish cartoons on one of our news papers that decided to publish them!
All in all, I doubt we are the country that people make it out to be. We do have some serious issues when it comes to religion, and superstition as well.
Tom
PS: Sorry for writing too long a post.
I think it would be fair to add that most politicians (perhaps with the exception of Jonas Gahr Støre) seem to have changed their views since the «cartoon crisis» of 2005. E.g. in response to the Charlie Hebdo massacre Stoltenberg seemed to me to be very clear in his support for the cartoonists, as was (current prime minister) Erna Solberg and most other politicians (cf. this: http://www.tv2.no/v/871523/). Also, I agree with all your points, but it’s not my impression that those issues are more pronounced in Norway compared to other western countries (my guess would be that the opposite is the case, but I can’t say that for sure without good data).
Sure that might be true that some of the politicians might have changed their views now.
And I also agree with you saying Norway´s problems with religion, and superstition is probably not as pronounced as with other western countries.
As a sidenote, I would have hoped that some agencies or organizations would keep records of those kinds of statistics.
Sure, I agree some of those politicians might have changed their views now.
Compared to other western countries, sure, we don´t have problems as pronounced as them with regards to religion, and superstition.
I wished there were agencies and organizations that kept track of relevant statstics for Norway.
That was a very good informative post.
My visits to Norway, twice this year, average about once every two years since 1970. We stay with close friends in Asker (close to Oslo, just down the road from the ‘palace’ where that princess you mentioned lives—she seems to be laughed at by all the Norwegians we talk to). Also we’ve travelled around a lot there, and are somewhat aware of Norwegians’ fixations (mainly football, aka soccer, even more than skiing), but not as aware as real Norwegians would be. I think there is quite a bit of ‘pulling the leg’ goes on (see below re Iceland).
As far as religion goes, much better tests would be regular church attendance and what kind of politicians get elected in these places. And they indicate far more secularity than most other places. I get a slight feeling that Sweden and Denmark are a little more secular than Norway and Iceland. And the confusion of Finland with Norway here for awhile maybe makes it worthwhile reminding people that the Finns are linguistically and culturally quite different from ‘true Scandinavians’ (except that all of them except the Danes are damn good skiers—actually a Norwegian will insult someone’s ability by saying “he skis like a Dane”!)
An amusing connection is the apparent widespread belief in the ‘little people’ (fairies, gremlins, whatever) in Iceland. There is even an organization there which battles for the geographical rights of these guys, successful at least in diverting slightly a new road just south of Reykjavik so it wouldn’t impinge on their abodes in or under the stones. I’ve travelled there 6 times since that 2010 volcano, and think that a large part of that claimed belief in surveys is for the sake of promoting tourism from outside, and not a serious belief. One can certainly see how walking through some of those lava fields after dark could generate that sort of thing in past centuries in the land of the Sagas.
Thanks for the comment.
I enjoyed your post as well.
I can agree on the point that you made about some Norwegians make fun of the “princess” (she was actually forced to give up her title much due to the fact of her activities as a self-employer). Unfortunately though I still think many people like herself and others actually do believe in those kinds of things. Her beliefs in her powers, and healing, are closely connected to her religious beliefs as a Christian. Some Christian theologians have actually critiized her beliefs (ironic, right?). Her husband is also a person people shake their heads to, but for different reasons.
I am not so sure church going attendance would be a better measure, but it certainly would be interesting, and I´d admit church goers are probably more religious (actually believe this stuff, as apposed to those who just believe in belief).
As far as religion in politics go. We are admittetly lucky that we don´t have a theocracy, or even a very religious nation like the US, or Turkey. But I still think religious groups and organizations influence our society, and many people while not religious cling to a lot of the traditions and custums that come out from Christianity. And like the US but to a far lesser extent we do have some parts of the country more religous than others. And even a few groups that try to push Creationism/ID, but are not very succesfull. (For example the organization Origio, who incidentally stole the domain name Darwin Centennial back in 2009).
Lastly, we do have a bit of that rivalry between our countries which you mention, but I think it is just for fun, and somewhat feigned interest in that 😉
I look back at my own deconversion story and I would certainly say I was an atheist before i was a skeptic.
And thinking on it, if i could only chose one or the other I would take a world where everyone was a skeptic, over a world where everyone were atheist.
Some very good comments in this thread.
Religion is obviously the more pernicious of the various woo out there, but I’m about the same degree of irked when speaking to “ghost hunters”, as I occasionally get to do. Some of these people even come off as smug for having the rational skills and reasoning power to realize that religion is nonsense, and then in the next breathe they’ll say “but ghosts on the other hand…”.
At the end of the day, there WILL always be people that try to exploit peoples superstitions. That’s how you have people like John Edwards and Sylvia Brown who talk to the dead for a fee and prey on peoples emotions. Any type of supernatural thinking could plausibly lead to religious like behaviors. Denying sick people medicine or treating them with homeopathy, etc… So it seems like it’s still dangerous to some extent to me.
I also have a harder time trying to have discussions with these people because they can’t really agree on anything. I know the same is said about religion and all the branches of Christianity, but there is source material. If you read the Bible, it’s not hard to point out the various flaws. There doesn’t seem to be a single agreed upon book that ghost or psychic or astrology people hold as a final word. Maybe this is a good thing, because maybe then their mind can be changed. I’m not sure.
I will end here with one little anecdote. It’s an interesting parallel with the recent post on this site about the religionists arguing whether animals go to heaven. I have an old high school buddy that believes strongly in ghosts. He thinks that every animal that ever lived has a “spirit” or “ghost”. He wastes money on useless equipment to hunt for these alleged ghosts in various places–some of which charge him and his group money to do so. I doubt he grasps evolution or the abundance of animals that ever lived. All of the insects, etc.. Also, Do bacteria have ghosts? I think I’ll ask him later. Maybe I have a T-Rex ghost in my living room right now as I type this. But he swears to it that he has, and has seen, a ghost CAT in his house and claims his cats perceive it’s existence and play with it from time to time. He’s an odd one!
Ghosthunting is popular in Germany too. For those of you who can read German I highly recommend “Ghosthunting – Auf Spurensuche im Jenseits” by Alexa Waschkau (ethnologist) and Sebastian Bartoschek (psychologist) They interviewed the gost hunting groups in Germany to find out about their motivation etc. It’s a fascinating account of all the fighting between the groups, the de/illusions and more.
I am norwegian. Ghost hunting is popular on television, and I’ d say that a significant part of our population dabble in ghost- belief. But for the most part its taken rather lightly, its not a big part of peoples life in the way religion is. Still, its more common than I would prefer. The same people are also inclined toward alternative medicine.
My 2 cents on the issue.
It tends to be forgotten that not everyone is an atheist because they have thought it through and realise that religion does not ring true. By the same token most religious people do not question their religion but merely accept what they are told. Being a largely atheist country does not make its people any more rational than any other. I know many atheists who believe in herbalism, ghosts,chiropractors, acupuncture, homeopathy, witches and vampires. most of them are not atheists because of rationality and do not hold their other beliefs because they are atheist.
“not everyone is an atheist because they have thought it through”
I concur. And I’d suggest that the percentage of “thoughtless” atheists amongst the “nones” is larger in countries where religious belief is in decline.
Maybe it says something about how many people are credulous, or just wish for something «fantastic» in their lives.
/@
FWIW, during 3.5yrs in Sweden in the early ’80s, I don’t recall anyone mentioning ghosts.
OTOH, I’d be happy for a nickel from everyone who has asked me, usually with some degree of eager anticipation, if Schwixon is haunted. They’re usually not prepared for the blowback reply, either an emphatic THERE ARE NO HAUNTED HOUSES, or a laconic “World’s thinnest book: Victorian Mansions That Have Never Been Said to be Haunted”. At least, I haven’t gotten any arguments.
OF COURSE Schwixon is haunted! You can tell that just by looking at the photo. In any rational world, it would be impossible for a house to look like that *without* being haunted! The fundamental rightness of things demands it.
That architecture would attract ghosts like a lightning conductor attracts lightning.
cr
(Disclaimer: I don’t believe in ghosts but in a house like that, around midnight, my disbelief might waver a bit)
Colbert?
So- according to the 2005 Gallup poll, 5% of those polled didn’t believe in ghosts, yet believed there was such a thing as a, “haunted” house: haunted by……what?
Trolls. Spirits that live in the the forests. Spirits that come out in the long winter nights and the twilight and lurk there, behind the rocks and the trees, watching…
cr
They come out at night. Mostly.
/@
Try Googling ‘Elves in Iceland…’ where roads regularly have to be re-routed or the sites of planned buildings changed lest the elves become upset.
That said, there are some astonishingly beautiful Icelandic folk-tales about dealings between humans and elves: ‘The Girl at the Shieling’, about the love between a girl and an elf (she bears his child) is my favourite. It appears in Jacqueline Simpson’s splendid book: ‘Icelandic Folktales & Legends’ (University of California Press).
I think “regularly” is a considerable exaggeration there, despite having mentioned myself above about one case of a road alteration.
We did have a amusing (at least later) incident at Holmavik in the West Fjords last April late, in travelling to a ski race at Isafjordur.
If I may divert briefly to a bit of an advert for Iceland, I’d strongly recommend a visit to the West Fjords (apparently the first bit of Iceland to rear its head above the surface of the Atlantic 15 or 20 million years ago), for anyone visiting Iceland for more than a few days—the Ring Road bypasses it. And taking the ferry north across Breidafjord (broad fjord) from Stykkisholmur, then up the ‘back road’ to Isafjordur is just stupendous, even by the standards of Iceland, where it’s almost impossible to get away from exceptional mountain/sea/glacier scenery. That time we had to go round via Holmavik because of a late winter—that road usually opens between late April and mid-May depending on snow cover, and does require driving on somewhat narrow gravel, with huge cliffs and no guard rails in a few places.
Anyway, in Holmavik a fellow who wears colourful tight leggings and a pointy hat runs a combined little restaurant and “Museum of Witch Craft and Sorcery”. Very little else is available in this typically tiny fishing village for tourists. We went for supper and tried to kid around a bit, but he maintained his gremlin composure, and may even be serious in belief about this stuff. In particular, my wife jokingly asked to be re-assured that there were no magic potions or similar as part of the meal recipe.
The (only later) amusing bit was that she felt quite ill in the tummy for awhile in the middle of that night (but soon recovered and was certain it had to do with overindulgence in fatty foods).
There is a broad undercurrent of “spiritual beliefs” in Sweden, in one (local) survey ~ 60 % of youths believe in “something” but only ~ 35 % are religious. [ https://gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/30224/1/gupea_2077_30224_1.pdf ]
As a context, the number of members in the former state church has dropped from 95 % 1970 over 83 % 2000 when the state/church separation happened, to 66 % 2013. And of those ~ 2 % are active church members. [ https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i_Sverige ] So perhaps 1 % protestants in the usual sense.
More generally, beliefs in ghost is widespread in US culture including easy available movies and television series, and Scandinavia – statistically open to the global community – picks up some US trends after 1-2 decades. I wouldn’t worry too much nor claim that it has anything to do with “premodern religion.”
Speaking of potential applecart upsets, here is a new – perhaps badly wrought and anyway weak (at 20 % of surveyed nations) – statistic factor:
“Social scientists have long accepted that religious faith tends to dwindle among college students. However, a new study shows that the highly educated’s loss of faith varies among nations.
Comparatively religious nations, such as the U.S., Turkey, Mexico, Italy and Israel, tend to see the strongest reduction in religiosity among the college-educated, according to research by sociologist Philip Schwadel of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
And, in more than one-fifth of the nations he studied, including New Zealand, Sweden, Russia and South Korea, higher education actually has a positive effect on religiosity. That could be because the highly educated tend to be more heavily involved in organizations and thus more likely to join and attend church.”
“Schwadel found no association between a nation’s average level of higher education with levels of religious belief among its people. However, rising per capita gross domestic product strongly correlates with declines in a nation’s religiosity, suggesting that a different measure of modernity may be at play.
While those who live in a communist or former communist nation are less likely to be religious, Schwadel found that variation in the effect of higher education on religiosity is not related to whether a nation is communist or formerly communist. He studied nine such nations: Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Latvia, Poland, Russia, Slovak Republic, Slovenia and Ukraine.
The negative effect of higher education on religiosity seen in relatively religious nations could be the result of less educated segments of the population emulating the beliefs adopted by the highly educated, Schwadel said.
“Secularity may be a form of status differentiation for the highly educated in relatively religious nations, but it cannot serve that function in relatively irreligious nations,” he said.
Schwadel called for more long-term study of how social networks and cultural capital influence the relationship between higher education and religious belief.”
[ http://phys.org/news/2015-10-countries-college-educated-faith.html#jCp ; my bold ]
I used to see a guy in a checkered shirt out of the corner of my eye. I’d look, and he’d disappear. Finally realized I was having optical migraines. Didn’t realize THAT’S what they meant by “auras.”
I don’t think it’s at all untrue that superstion is replacing religious belief. They’re two sides of the same coin, an attempt to make sense of something that is unexplained or uncontrollable.
Animals associate patterns with events. They may learn to anticipate rain, but merely from matching circumstances in experience. They don’t have a knowledge of meteorology. We as humans still have those mental processes and in many cases they serve us well. We don’t need to understand deep cause and effect for daily life.
Superstiton, and it’s more structural cousin, religion are merely outgrowths of the same process of ‘skip’ the logic and get riht to the results. With millions of years of evolution behind use, there is little likelihood that we will suddenly our instincts and become a species like Spock.
(Actually, since logic has minimal value when facing the unknown, I’m not sure Spock’s people could actually have evolved)
I don’t think you understand what is implied by your own statements; if religiosity increases when other kinds of well-being decrease, that suggests that religiosity is helpful to people, not harmful, since they use it to compensate.