Let’s leave aside the quibble that the sign over the grocery-store line for the abstemious shopper should say “10 items or fewer.” (I think Pinker okays the “incorrect” version in his latest book.) I happened to be in such a line yesterday, with but three items, and the person in front of me blithely removed 16 items from her basket (I counted). I’m always tempted to say something to such people, like, “Can’t you count?”, or ask the checkout clerk if they ever refuse anybody who violates the sign, but I’m always too cowardly.
I would never get in a 10-item line with even 11 items (and no, four cartons of yogurt don’t count as one item). But presumably those signs are up there for a reason, and where is the enforcement? Do you ever call out such people? I wonder what the ever-frank Advice Goddess Amy Alkon would do?
I think, in fact, I’ll ask her. Stay tuned.
I feel much as you do and do nothing.
Unlike Pinkah, some people take such quibbles seriously. Somebody has to care, or our civilization might just grind to a standstill.
I agree, but I’ve noticed that language experts always uphold some rules, and then tell their readers that it is okay to ignore others. (I recently read one article defending the use of “I could care less.”) I don’t think that they have any standard beyond “rules I like” and “rules I don’t.”
I especially love David Mitchell’s rant on “could care less”.
I especially love all of David Mitchell! He’s right about “erbs” too.
Word crimes!
(I recently read one article defending the use of “I could care less.”)
One time someone said that, and I replied, “Well, do so!”
(For some reason am reminded of a tale I heard, possibly in a Hitch-related video, where Bono, on stage, reportedly tells a Scottish audience, “Every time I clap my hands, a child dies (of malnutrition, etc.).” Some Scotsman in the audience shouts in reply, “Then stop clapping!”)
I asked a checkout clerk once. Their policy was to not count and not comment. If someone gets in line with more items, they happily sell them to them. They also don’t apologize to the people behind them who abide by the guidelines (not rules, evidently).
I’ve gone through checkouts with more than the maximum posted number of items. But I don’t do it if there is any one else who might be getting in line and I always ask permission.
Is that a Stanley Milgram psychology experiment?
Me too, same strategy.
Me too. I feel that the purpose is to have a ‘quick’ checkout line and the exact number of items is not important. 10, 11, 12, 13 – when there is a scanner and it takes 2 seconds per item then it hardly matters.
I have called out people who grossly abuse it, some times directly, chastising them for wasting MY time, but often I do it passive-aggressively and say it out loud for all to hear, and it is appreciated by others waiting behind the abuser.
I do the passive aggressive thing too. A bit of shame and embarrassment is good for the type of people who do this in my very judgmental opinion! 🙂 I’m always getting told by others they wish they were brave enough to have said something, so now I see it as my duty, whether I’m in the mood to do it or not.
I do just the same on both accounts, NEB.
They should simply charge more for the extra items in those lines.
Great idea! There should be a sign that every item over 10 is charged double!
Excellent! As many as you like but exponential price increase after 10 . . . anyone with 64 or more items gets 2 for 1 on all items 🙂
That’s not exponential. Exponential would be that anyone with 64 items gets charged 2^54 times the marked price. They’d need a supermarket trolley full of $100 notes to pay for it…
On the other hand, then 1%ers will have yet another way to use their filthy lucre to cut ahead. Not only do they not care if their bottle of wine costs twice what you pay: they’re proud of it. And, let’s face it, one word from moneybags to the manager and the extra cost will be waved while everyone else waits their turn.
I suggest shaming violators as a disincentive: when someone checks too many items, a flashing red light, an announcement over the store PA, perhaps organized chanting of “chea-ter! chea-ter!” by staff and patrons.
Ha! That would do it I think!
You could go for something more subtle by programming the register to print a coupon with the receipt for a free copy of ‘Elementary Counting for Dummies’
It would have to be patrons and not staff, as “The Customer Is Always Right.” But that doesn’t apply to other customers.
Also, what if you, a customer, are in a restaurant restroom, and another customer does not wash his hands? (I say “his,” because it is hard for me to believe that women anywhere near decline to wash their hands as much as the testicular-burdened.) I’ve always wanted to go up to someone and ask if he thought that microbes differentiate between customers and employees. (Re: the fatuous restroom sign that admonishes that employees must wash their hands before returning to work.)
I also have to wonder how many infections start due to hospital visitors unable/unwilling to trouble themselves to wash their hands after using the PATIENT’S restroom.
Another opportunity to use my customer shaming technology!
Filippo,
One semester early in college I worked at a supermarket. Cleaning of the public restrooms was a hated duty that was equitably rotated among us back-room employees. The Men’s restroom was pretty nasty, but the Women’s restroom was at least 5 times as disgusting. Not just my opinion, it was a well known thing and something the older employees enjoyed surprising the newbies with.
And I did find it very surprising because prior to that I never would have thought to doubt that the Men’s room would be much more disgusting than the Women’s.
No, they should scan the first ten items, then put the rest aside to be restocked.
This is definitely the best solution. I would love to see that.
I don’t think I’ve seen this sign in English shops for a while. It’s divided up between basket lines and trolley lines. It’s given us less opportunities to release our pent-up as a tut, but shopping is less stressful.
Witnessing someone enter into the basket line with a small trolley, doesn’t matter if they’ve just got a baskets worth of items in there, is a dangerous situation. When that happens just put your shopping down and leave calmly.
Sorry, that should be pent-up aggression having to dodge people who don’t know how to drive a trolley. A tut and a cup of tea is all we need.
And an evil stare. Well nobody is going to SAY anything.
Yes, this pisses me off as well (USian English there). Why do people just stop/abandon their carts — where ever. I just move them, always, unless the person is right there, when I say “excuse me!”
I’m always telling my son: Don’t block the road, people need to pass.
I almost always carry a hand basket in the grocery (my wife always wants to get a cart, even when not needed) and I whip through the place really fast. It also helps prevent impulse purchases.
“Yes, this pisses me off as well (USian English there).”
Really?
I thought ‘pissed’ was the USian and ‘pissed off’ was the British English term. But I could well be worng.
Americans may say “I’m pissed,” [or “pissed off”] but I’ve never heard anyone say “This pisses me.”
OK, thanks for the clarification. It’s as well to get these technical terms right 😉
‘pisses me off’ is also the British English way of saying that.
For once, the USian and British terms are identical. Such unanimity does not happen often. Truly a happy occurrence.
Note however, in Britsh English “I’m pissed” [.. as a newt” is optional] does NOT mean “I’m pissed off” at all, instead it conveys the far happier meaning of “I’m plastered” or “I’m out of it” or “I’m as high as a kite” or other colourful expression indicating a blissfully non-sober state.
“Piss off!” in the imperative, on the other hand, just means “go away”.
A remarkably versatile expression, all things considered.
That graph ignores the 50% of people paying by personal check for $4.27 worth of items. Grrrrr.
Isn’t it amazing how slowly those people can sign their name?
I don’t think any large shops in the UK accept cheques any more.
Much the same in New Zealand. When they did take chegues there was a fee for bank processing which did not apply to cash. Given the security costs of dealing with cash I thought this a bit unfair so left my trolly in the wrong place in the car park. Petty but I felt good.
People still use cheques?
In the US? Yes. Typically they are older folk. Who, as Jerry says, don’t even bother to get out their checkbook until the total is rung up and everything is bagged.
That’s why I hate to take my grandmother to the grocery store.
That and she can never just stick with the stuff on her grocery list. I think if it weren’t for the family looking out for her she’d be a hoarder.
I don’t think there has ever been a time where I only got exactly what was on my shopping list.
Do you ever have a shopping list that consists of:
orange juice
cottage cheese
cat food
bagged salad
and end up walking out of the store with $200+ worth of assorted meats, seafood, organic produce, candies, Aspirin, and various other sundries every time you go to the store that must then be crammed into your already over-stuffed freezer?
No, never to that extreme. I don’t try to write down everything. ‘Fruit”, “vegetables”, ‘meals” are categories that specifics change as I am there at the market (the romaine looks good but the iceberg lettuce doesn’t). I also find things that I might want to try and also things like “the grandkids are coming next week and they may want cereal, etc.
Yep. Not that exact list of course, but I have indeed walked in with the intent to buy 2-3 items and walked out with >$100 in expenditures.
There’s typically an inflection point at some point in my shopping trip. A point where I say “well, if I put this extra thing in the cart, then I’m not just picking up stuff I need right now, I’m doing my shopping for the week. So I might as well go whole hog and actually shop for the week.”
My wife does, most times.
/@
Well, I can only say that I felt privileged to escort my most congenial and sweet-natured grandmother to the grocery store and walk and talk with her. My grandfather, a curmudgeon^3 and critical of her at the drop of the hat and inclined to examine the grocery bill with a fine-toothed comb, of course would never trouble himself to accompany her to the grocery store; her job was to cook and clean, and his was to eat (and to critique her cooking) and to trash the house. Considering the great contrast in their personalities, it’s a wonder I’m around to gripe about his treatment of her.
My grandmother has a number of physical and mental issues associated with aging. Her judgement is seriously impaired and the main reason she has to be accompanied at the grocery store is that she’s very prone to doing things that are extremely risky (like trying to walk around without her walker or cart to lean on- her balance is very poor and she has brittle bones). Grandpa was the nice one on that side of the family.
What’s a cheque? How last century.
Certain family members of mine insist checks are the way to go for security. You can’t trust those computers you know…
Yeah, but you can trust a piece of paper floating around with your unencrypted name, address, phone number, and bank information…
Not to mention that most places these days scan your check into their system at which point it is no different than any other electronic transaction. Many places even do that right there at the register and then hand you back your paper cheque along with your receipt.
Yes, I’ve made this point too. The other favorite is that they don’t sign up for online banking because “once you’re in the computer, you can’t get out.” Of course, online banking is merely an access point and your info is already “in the computer.” A data breach can still affect you whether you signed up for online banking or not. And of course if you are the victim of individual identity theft and the criminal signs up for you since you haven’t done it, you’ve just given them a running start to instant access while you wait 4 weeks for the snail mail to show up. By the time I get this far into the explanation, their eyes have usually long since glazed over and the conversation has turned to some equally inane topic like their lottery numbers being due to come in. At this point, the best solution is simply reaching for a stiff drink and silently bemoaning the willful ignorance that permeates this country.
There should be a separate checkout for customers with a bushel basket-full of coupons.
My wife pays cash. The exact amount, in notes and coins, which she carefully extracts from her purse. She can take longer to sort out $53.70 from her purse than it would take to write a cheque.
I am afraid that I too withhold comment – although I sometimes do say something to the clerk in a joking sort of way that some people can’t read. Usually I do self-check out now anyway. There will always be people who don’t think the rules apply to them – just to others. We all know that only cats possess that privilege. Staff never does.
Self-service seems the norm in the UK. What happened to those employees I wonder? Self-service has taken over in libraries too…
I have once been directed away from the self-checkout machines and toward the checkout lines for having too many items, but much more often I’ve seen people check through far more than the specified number. I’d like to see either
– a polite note printed on the receipt, mentioning how many items they bought, or
– an “Oogh-aagh!” siren at the 16th and subsequent items.
It frustrates me too. Then again, many things do!
Sometimes I get stuck behind people who are using a large number of coupons and there is a problem with some of them which takes a long time to resolve. And recently I queued behind a lady who was buying a plant and then tried to negotiate over the price because the leaves looked a bit ropey.
What irks me is when these customers are oblivious to the people they are holding up.
Of course the other one is people who wait until the final total appears before reaching into their handbags or taking out a checkbook. Especially infuriate are the people who take a long time digging for pennies in a change purse.
Get off of my lawn!
I often wonder why those people value their own time so marginally. I typically scan my debit card while the cashier is scanning items, and am ready for the final button push when the total comes up…not out of some social obligation to the people behind me, but because I don’t want to waste my free time in a supermarket checkout line. I’ll take those minutes of my life and use them more effectively (or at least more hedonistically), thank you.
TOTALLY with you on those. 🙂
The answer of course is to eliminate coins below 25 cents. The most coins you’d ever need to have (or receive as change) is 3.
They must be related to the people (usually women, I’m sad to say) who wait at the bus stop until the bus arrives, get on and ask the driver the fare, THEN they start to rummage in the bottom of their bag for their purse, from which they extract a $20 note (for a $1.70 fare) leaving the driver to rummage through his till trying to scrape up enough $2 coins to make change while the whole busload of people waits…
Ah. Well in this case the US might be ahead of you (vs. the cheque thing, where you are ahead of us). Our bus drivers typically do not make change. Many systems now use rechargable farecards. The ones that accept cash typically either make change via a machine or they don’t give change period.
I don’t regard that as ‘ahead’ of us. we have farecards too, which get a small discount, but drivers also accept cash, which is a huge plus in convenience for occasional passengers.
The fact that a few passengers abuse the facility is not a reason to deprive those who don’t.
Thank you for saying that. A little compassion never hurts.
Seriously, do people still pay by cheque/check???!!!
I’ve been guilty of being in the wrong line because I didn’t notice an item when I counted up my cart. Also, our grocery’s front-end manager may tell someone with a relatively small number of items to get on an express lane if the express is idle. Of course, whoever follows doesn’t know that. What do you achieve by getting upset when the d**m register runs out of tape? Knowing my patience level is low, I try to remember that it’s better to enjoy the moment than stress out. Hah!
Ha! Me too.
Now that I am retired I use the time standing behind such people to meditate on how unstressed I am by the whole affair. Even tossing out a ‘No worries’ if the checkout operator apologises.
I do wonder if the offending shopper gets creeped out by the smiling old gaffer behind them, but I guess they are oblivious to anyone else.
Once I was standing in line softly whistling. This could easily-enough have been interpreted as my being bored and impatient.
However, my whistling apparently was so mellifluous and so aesthetically ear-caressing and refulgent of kind consideration and patience, and my demeanor so radiantly tranquil, that the clerk effectively (and accurately, if I say so myself) evaluated it as such and expressly commented words to the effect that I must be a kind and patient soul. 🙂
I don’t even like standing in that line if I’m under the limit but it looks like I may have over 10 items.
The only transgression I cannot ignore is when people skip in line. And that goes for cutting in front of me or anybody else. I’m not rude but I point out that the people behind them were at one time in front of them (or me). I’d say about half the time I’m completely ignored (and I drop it there), the rest of the time they say “sorry, didn’t realize that” and go back to their place. But pretty much everybody knows they skipped. I’m afraid that if there’s even the smallest amount of panic in the US, we will rapidly descend into chaos, unlike Japan did recently after the Fukushima meltdown; I’m envious of several aspects of Japanese culture.
Some grocery stores have only one, maybe two lines for cigarettes. Avoid those. Frequently the cashiers have no idea where to find the correct brand. I guess that’s a sign that the cashiers do not smoke. It is mentally disruptive to think the person in front of you has only two items (plus cigs) and yet it still takes five minutes for them to check out.
There probably needs to be a daguerreotype of Moses above the register. Grocery etiquette requires damnation for compliance.
One of the standard Saturday jobs for teenagers in the UK is to work the checkouts at stores such as Tesco, Asda etc. The problem occurs when you have a nice bottle of Ardbeg and they have to find someone who is over 18 to ensure that you are over 18 which delays everyone.
(Note to US readers: Europeans have much more sensible drinking ages. If you can vote at 18 then surely you can drink!)
I used to do that job when I was 17 and it was the reason I left just after two months. It was at a big Sainsburys. Anyone coming to my till with alcohol I had to push the supervisor button, wait two minutes and hold up the bottle, the supervisor would then check out the person I’m trying to serve and we could continue. It was embarrassing for everyone involved. I had requested that we place signs on the front of the checkouts with underage assistants, but that was too complicated for them.
Apropos of Jerry’s other latest article on free speech: most of us feel about your Nazi-related free speech limitations the way you feel about our drinking age. Surely sensible people can handle it, right?
I haven’t posted on Jerry’s latest article on free speech ….
OK … I hadn’t read Jerry’s article until just now. I realise that you were referring to Europeans in general and not me personally.
The drinking age in the US used to be 18, but they raised it in the 80s. Yes, I thought that it was stupid that you can serve in the military at 18, but not have a beer in your own home.
Actually, it was different all over the US. Here in Wisconsin it was 18. So bars flourished along the southern border of the state, catering to youth from Illinois who couldn’t drink there, but could drive a few miles for an evening of carousing.
Lots of highway fatalities resulted from the disparity in legal drinking laws.
It can still technically differ by state; AFAIK there is no federal requirement that it be 21. Instead, what the feds did is link all sorts of financial support (I think it was mosthly transportation funding – road repairs, etc.), to a requirement for the 21-year age limit. The states wanted that money, so they complied.
Exactly.
And: People serving in the military can drink in the base clubs etc. Not quite the same thing; but …
And: It would be different if there were a draft. As it is (in the US), it’s voluntary service.
I think a drinking age of 18 is much too young — and I happened to slot into the brief period when it was legal at 18 in Minnesota (and then I well remember driving to Wisconsin after it changed to 19 in Minnesota. It changed to 21 much later.) That said, I haven’t been “carded” since I was 16. I was about 6-ft, 3 inches tall (1.90 m) tall when I was 16 (and not done growing yet), which probably helped a lot in that way!
I’m personally in favor of a lower drinking age, but uniform to reduce driving across state lines.
While the federal government may be unable to directly set a standard age, this is pretty much irrelevant, for the reason you cite.
There even used to be jurisdictions (maybe there still are some?) that had much lower drinking ages, as low as 15 or 16, IF the parents were the ones serving the minor. For example, if you as a 15 year old were at a restaurant with your mother, it was legal for her to order you a beer. But the server couldn’t give it to you, the parent had to.
“Note to US readers: Europeans have much more sensible drinking ages. If you can vote at 18 then surely you can drink!”
Yes, but this works well only when coupled with much more severe drunk-driving laws, which the US does not possess. And isn’t likely to any time soon.
It was only a few years ago that Minnesota (where I live) finally went from 0.10% to the national norm of 0.08% for DUI limit. I could only conclude that the state legislature members wanted to drive drunk. And, based on their behavior, I’m pretty sure that’s true!
And if one can serve in the military at age 18 and be expected/required/forced to go in harm’s way to be possibly killed or maimed for life, then one can drink, to heck with the possibly less than complete development of the prefrontal lobes! Otherwise, perhaps the minimum drinking age of 21(?) should be the minimum age to qualify for military service.
My supermarket says, “10 items or fewer.”
The system must make some sense, because Consumer Reports asked Cosco why they didn’t have express lines.
We have a local store that only sells meat and vegetables. They use what I call the New York checkout system. 10 clerks, one line.
A couple days ago they were extremely busy. There were 20 people ahead of me in line, and I waited less than three minutes.
I was in Whole Foods in Manhattan the day before Thanksgiving a few years ago. 50 clerks, one line. I started out with 160 people ahead of me and was checked out in less than ten minutes.
Mine says “15”. 😉
Excellent system (one line, many clerks).
That’s perhaps the greatest thing about New York; the effort to build in as many efficiencies as possible. Whenever I’m away from the region, I’m stunned by how slow everything is from checkout lines to waiters greeting you when you sit down at a restaurant. Of course, that’s just because I’m a “damn Yankee” when I make my way into the more laid back areas of this country.
Hence the “A New York Minute” thang?
Must we be industrial engineering efficiency expert (Frederick) Taylorites about every facet of our lives? Must every action be harried and every conversation be hurried?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m a native of the all too frequently slothful and unambitious can’t-be-bothered-to-get-off-my-butt Appalachian South.
Seems to me there’s a happy medium/golden mean there somewhere.
In a word? Yes 😉
On a more serious note, no it isn’t always necessary, but I think it’s good for things to run quickly for those who need them to run quickly. Do I always rush everywhere I go? No, but when I need (or want) to, it’s frustrating as all hell when there are pointless wastes of time. In true New York fashion, I’d sum it up as “Feel free to waste your time, just don’t waste mine.”
Absolutely agree. Even if I’m not in a hurry, I’d much rather get through the checkout in quick time and not-hurry in a fashion of my choice at my leisure afterwards.
I quite like ‘wasting’ time – but the less time I waste in checkouts, the more time I have to ‘waste’ for myself.
At my grocery, the manager frequently moves anyone, no matter how much they have, into the express lane. It has happened to me a lot. They don’t inform anyone who subsequently walks up after the checker gets started. According to Murphy’s Law, someone typically does walk up, and I assume they are probably judging. I’d be happy to wait in a regular line, but the manager is insistent; they want ostensibly happy customers and to keep moving things along. So please consider that while you’re seething. I vote for ‘fewer’, by the way, but…
Good point. That’s happened to me, where a cashier with no one in the express line asked me to move up to her till. Then some lady came along soon after and had to indignantly declare that I had more than 10 items. So make sure we know what’s up, before we scold.
I once mentioned to a clerk that the woman behind me obviously couldn’t read the sign (she had a giant basket of stuff in the 15-or-less line). The clerk asked the woman to go to another register and the shopper started chewing out the cashier. Obviously, that forced me to speak up and say that I was the one who ratted her out. She turned to me and said “I hope you can sleep at night.” I sleep just fine.
Well, she obviously felt “special” and “entitled.” We live in The Land of Amuricun Exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny. The Land of the Fee and The Home of the Craven.
On the other side of the coin, a roommate of mine was once chastised in the 10-item line by an old lady because his two six-packs amounted to “12.”
On the fewer/less issue, I’d be more interested in the debate if there were a word that meant “discretely more.” (Yes, “discretely,” not “discreetly.”) Like, perhaps, “morer.” 😉
It’s the same as many/much. You wouldn’t say “I don’t have as much items as you do” (at least I don’t), so you shouldn’t say “I have less items than you do.”
The use of “less” in the way you deem “incorrect” is actually quite idiomatic in certain setting. In fact, “language experts” have even documented that the unfounded belief that such an usage is always wrong can actually give rise to highly unidiomatic English. See Geoffrey Pullum’s essay here for an analysis.
And before I am sniped out by any alert “prescriptivists”:
setting -> settings
an usage -> a usage
This has come up a few times in my experience – someone buys (say) 8 loose Roma tomatoes. Is that one item? It gets weighed as one, though, so maybe …
I’m going to incur wrath here, but I don’t count either my items or those in the carts ahead of me. If it’s a smallish load I figure ‘close enough’, whether it’s mine or theirs. If their cart were to be full, then I would get concerned, but I can’t recall having that happen at my local Wally World in recent times.
I have always had a short fuse, and it’s something I’ve worked on all my life. I now find I can tolerate the simple inanities of my fellow humans most of the time, whether it be in traffic, at the store, or at work. I still struggle mightily with those that produce loud noises while eating or drinking, though.
Yep, does a 12-roll pack of toilet paper count as one item, and one buys ten of them (ten being the Express Lane limit), as opposed to, for example, buying 15 ink pens?
I had 12 items once in a 10 item line and was called out on it. I then asked my critic if she drives to the store at or less than the speed limit or was she 5 or 10 miles per hour over it. She shut up and said nothing more. Speeding is a safety issue, the checkout line is not; if someone wants to be a pedantic annoyance at least be consistent.
Our local Giant has the scan-it system. Get a wand as you go in, scan your items as you take them off the shelf (and put them in your bag), and then it’s one-push and go at the register. Very nice when you don’t have alcohol (which necessitates an ID check). About 10% of the time you have to wait for a person to come and check you’re not cheating, but the other 90% of the time, its fast and efficient…and since (permit me a gross generalization) tech-phobic fogies don’t like the system, there is never any line.
It frustrates me too. Unless, I am the one with more than 12 items. This happened to me once, a year or two ago. I got in the line not really counting my items. I probably had four or five items over the limit. But I recall, the lane was empty, and the other lines had people with huge carts full of stuff. And while the clerk is ringing up the purchases, a guy gets in line behind me and starts really laying into me. This guy was not shy. called me a jerk, an inconsiderate jerk, said I couldn’t read, and I’m 50, 6feet tall and 250+ lbs, this guy was obviously ten years older than me and slight of build, perhaps 5′ 8″ and that didn’t stop him. The girl at the register kind of tried to ignore him, giving me a look no and then – this went on the whole time she rang up the basket, 2 or 3 minutes (she was slow). For my part, being from New York, I love stuff like this. I just smiled and laughed and agreed with his every insult which didn’t seem to encourage or discourage him. When I had paid and turned to leave, I said “Fuck you very much” to the gentleman and left. So, did I feel guilty? Not in the least. As others have commented, its a policy not a federal law. I certainly wouldn’t get in the express line with 20 or 30 items, but really, 4 or 5 over the limit? Some people just need to chill.
Yeah, shouldn’t be an issue when no one is in line when you walk up.
Thank you for your suggestion that I chill.
NOT.
I was referring to the guy in my line. Not you.
Being a huge jerk, I tend to point this out in supermarkets at times. Allegedly in good spirit, but people always give me the stink eye 🙂
Why is “ten items or less” wrong (I know I’m poking the bear, but…)?
If I were to post that sign, it would say, “This line is for those who are buying a quantity of items < 11.”
I would expect people reading that to get to the inequality symbol and read it as, “less than.”
I can't understand why “Ten or less” is incorrect in any way (that would be less than or equal to, but I couldn't get that symbol to work in this comments section). In fact, if I consult Roget's, less and fewer are synonyms.
To the main point of the post, I don't know why supermarkets don't enforce the rule. Airlines have been enforcing boarding orders for years without backlash.
Generally speaking, correct English grammar calls for:
If you can count it (eggs, barcodes that require scanning at the till): The it’s more and fewer.
If you can’t count it (bulk flour, volume of beer), then it’s more and less.
(Although Pinker seems to challenge this.)
You should drink less beer.
You should drink fewer bottles of beer.
Total blasphemy, I know. 🙂
I know. That’s what my Harbrace Handbook states also. But, if you want to be accurate, there is nothing material that you can’t count. According to that, anytime we say “less than,” it implies we are being imprecise. I think mathematicians would disagree.
I’ll let the English specialists figure it out if I’m chugging it right out of the tap!
That was violation of (7)(b)(2), right? 😉
I remember those markings in the margins of freshman English papers I had to write. Wore me out. Would that I had access to 21st century cut-and-past word processors v. typewriters. The physical labor is so much less nowadays. (In schools they teach “keyboarding,” not “typing.”)
If you feel the urge to say something, I recommend “Excuse me, where is the ‘ten items or less’ line?”
That made me laugh! 😀
“Where is the line for the numerically literate?”
🙂
So … what’s the matter with a couple of huge items? It isn’t as though it takes longer to ring up a big item than a small item.
I’d argue that “(Ten items) or less” is correct; if you’re using “fewer” it should be “(Ten or fewer) items” (parens only to show how to parse the phrases).
It depends how you enumerate items. Arguably, any line on your shopping list is an item:
– Two six-packs of beer.
– Five loaves of bread.
– Two fishes
Three items!
This was amusingly dramatised by Robbie Coltrane in an episode of Cracker several years ago.
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How many items need to be scanned or typed in to the register, that’s the correct criterion.
Correct if you work in retail; not if you’re a grammar pedant! 😏
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God forbid that it’s Jesus in front of you with that shopping list.
See #34.
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I have seen people called out on this (not me).
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What bugs me (on our local trails and in our local parks) is the people who let their d*gs run loose. It’s totally illegal in the town I live in. It’s never permitted except in designated (fenced!) off-leash areas in some of the parks.
It’s unsafe: We’ve nearly been knocked off our bikes by dogs bolting in front of us or trying to “make friends”.
People seem to think they can control their dog by voice — extremely few can.
It’s filthy — these are usually the same people who don’t pick up after their d*gs (no bags that I can see, even though they are provided, free, in dispensers at the entrances to most of our parks.)
We live next to an “open space” (undeveloped park lands), which is great; but it also gets treated like the “dumping ground”, pun intended, for a large number of dogs. I see people drive up, get our of their vehicle and take the d*g for a “walk” in the open space — just long enough for it to defecate, and then jump back into the car (bagging it? don’t bother to ask).
Once, my wife was watching from one of our upstairs windows as someone led their dog onto our front yard and had it crap on it! It was summer and she leaned out the window and asked them in a loud voice (as they were walking away!) whether they were going to pick that up. They did come back and get it; but not with good grace.
I confess I had almost forgotten express lines were a thing. I shop at Costco, a local market with self-checkout, and local mom & pop stores. For a holiday dinner I had to go to a chain supermarket for odds & ends – but my local has self-checkout, too.
After 10 minutes in a supermarket, I start to lose the will to live …
Just wait for a three-year-old to throw a tantrum and put a spring in your step.
I believe this is one of the benefits of having a wife who does all the shopping and I rarely go near a grocery.
I’ve always wanted a wife like that, too.
Now all you have to do is get her to mow the yard and cut the fire wood.
A man once bought his wife an axe. He couldn’t understand why it made her so mad.
“It had a pretty red handle!” he said.
I was tapped on the shoulder yesterday as I got to the till and was asked if I would mind letting her through as she only needed change for parking. I pointed to the single packet of biscuits I was buying and politely said no.
What would others have done?
I should add I felt bad about it all the way back to the office. (My turn for the Jaffa cakes) In fact I feel bad about it now. How rude of me!
I would have let her go.
If it feels wrong, then it probably is.
I believe that I would have conformed to your course of action. How could your purchase of one item have taken any longer than her making change?
Anyway, she ought to have purchased something for the privilege of making change for parking. I don’t go into a convenience store to use the restroom without buying some small item. Why didn’t she get her required change during her last grocery store visit. It’s a bloody sense of entitlement operating there.
You’re making too much of it. It’s very easy to run out of change. And if she asked nicely then fine.
Myself, I would normally try to buy something. But either way, buy something or not, let her in front or not, no great crimes have been committed by anybody.
“You’re making too much of it.”
Yes, perhaps the incident was not worth the trouble of any comment.
“I’m always tempted to say something to such people, like, “Can’t you count?”, or ask the checkout clerk if they ever refuse anybody who violates the sign, but I’m always too cowardly.”
As a cashier myself, I say please do speak up, because cashiers that work for large corporations generally aren’t allowed to say anything serious against customers. We’re certainly not allowed to refuse service to customers with more items than the express lanes request. The very idea of enforcement is hilarious to those of us who work retail, as we know how much corporate rules bind our hands. A customer’s obviously wrong about a price and insists on it? As long as the price difference is under $10, we’re told to change the price. See someone stuff an item in their coat to steal it? Not allowed to even mention it, let alone accuse them. Thus the trick to getting good deals in modern retail is to be a brazen jerk, while the rest of us get to pay for it.
When I worked for a delivery service I quickly realized that the most annoying customers got the quickest service, while the pleasant ones got a string of excuses. And unfortunately, because I had a “nice voice,” I was usually the one told to call the polite ones and tell them that our driver had had a flat tire and was running quite late…
“See someone stuff an item in their coat to steal it? Not allowed to even mention it, let alone accuse them.”
Yet corporate tyrants don’t hesitate to allege and gripe in the media about employee theft.
What would corporate suits not allow a customer to do to employees? Cuss them out? Hit them?
I always have less than 10 items because I’m always just topping up on my way home with what’s beem missed or runs short before the next shopping day. And you know what, I don’t much the Hell care how many items people carry to the 10 item or fewer line, much less count them, because I don’t stand in that line – it moves much too slowly because of the people who shouldn’t be there.
From British crime drame “Cracker”, main character Fitz (Robbie Coltrane):
[Fitz is paying for a mountain of groceries in the eight items queue]
Irate Customer: Uh, eight items.
Fitz: I’ve got eight items!
Irate Customer: No, you haven’t.
Fitz: Three bottles of whisky constitute one item.
Irate Customer: THREE items.
Fitz: ONE item! Two loaves of bread constitute one item. Two dozen eggs constitute one item.
Irate Customer: Two and two!
Fitz: Six frozen lasagnes constitute one item.
Irate Customer: Six!
Fitz: Four cornish pasties constitute one item.
Irate Customer: [to the cashier] Could you call the supervisor, please?
Fitz: And three steak and kidney bastard pies also constitute one bloody item!
[the alarm goes off]
Fitz: Oh, for God’s sake!
Thanks! (re #26)
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Fitz does (devilishly advocatingly ) have a point in that some (SOME) checkouts have a ‘many of last item’ function.
OTOH, as someone who shops with a rucksack and packs carefully, the item count is only one component of checkout time.
Check outs will all disappear soon. With face recognition systems improving we will not need to even carry any ID. Just go to the store, take what you want and leave. If your credit rating isn’t good enough then Homeland Security will show up at your house to take it (and you) back.
I don’t think it can be completely passive. I think that legally there has to be a clear intent to purchase. Just walking out with the goods might not cut it.
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I once heard a cashier ask a customer which 8 items they wanted.
One of the stores here has 1-10 and 11-20 lines, which is new. I wonder if that will create more confusion, rather than less.
It will cause confusion to the extent that customers are incompetent to count to twenty.
I was going to ask if the average shopper can count to 20 without taking their shoes off…
I forget which magazine – the New Yorker? Punch? – had a cartoon of two checkout lanes
: “10 items or less” and “Schoolteachers’ lane: 10 items or fewer”
Is it in Da Roolz to have FEWER than ten pieces of baggage when commenting?
I have been called out on such things before due to my own inattention, and from the debris in the sweetie display by the checkout I deduce that I’m not the first.
Often the sign is for “Express checkout” with caveats about store cards, cash only etc as per the infopropagandic. But generally they are effective. Despite Saturday’s 10 minute wait to get a pack if Fags.
oh slow Web pages that mislead me into thinking this was a comment less post!