36 thoughts on “Jesus ‘n’ Mo(rality)”

  2. I don’t know — are the communities and families in Denmark really strong though? I mean, if a child grows up and wants to make decisions for themselves — decisions which go against what the tight-knit community and powerful family see as sacred obligations of tradition — does the Danish child get away with it? Without penalty or at least mandated shunning?

    Seems to me you’d need religion to make the communities and families really solid and coherent. Otherwise individualism rears its ugly head and it’s nothing but disobedience to authority and refusal to conform.

  4. While I agree that Danish society runs smoothly and mostly religion free, this is not because people here are atheists. I think it’s because the population is extremely small and homogeneous. If everyone is either your friend or your friend’s friend it’s really easy to trust them.

    1. The point Jesus and Mo are making doesn’t depend on a causal relationship between atheism and a healthy society. It disproves by example the claim that a godless society cannot be ethical, safe, and healthy.

    3. So then do all “extremely small and homogeneous” societies run smoothly ?

      What’s up with Haiti ?

      It’s small and homogeneous and ranks 138 out of 142 in the Global prosperity index 2012.

      1. Haiti is a Catholic country so god rewards their piety by sending his blessing of suffering.
        Every groan, a kiss from Jesus.

        1. Ah yes, blessings sent in part by that very corporeal proxy, dear sweet Mother Teresa, who blew the Haitians a great big raspberry of a kiss by taking money from former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier and accepting the Légion d’honneur from Duvalier who was apparently another agent of god whose special gift was looting the coffers of that “extremely small and homogeneous” country.

  5. Perhaps what the Rabbi is really saying is that he can’t maintain any moral code without the external constraints of his religion.

  6. Christians have been double crossed by cross eyed priests but I think deep down they realize they are holding onto error. Here is a song that makes a lot more sense from an atheistic perspective,
    Parody on :

    DON’T BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON THE SANDY LAND
    Don’t build your house on the shore
    bits might look kind of nice but you’ll have to build it twice
    Yes you’ll have to build your house once more ( on reality )

    You’d better build your house on evolution
    To the origins of life it is our best solution
    Fiction may come and go
    But science can make your brain glow.

    DON’T BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON THE SANDY LAND
    Don’t build your life on bible fiction
    bits might look kind of nice but could fill your head with lice
    Unless you read Robert Price books in addition

    You’d better read Jerry Coyne’s book on evolution
    To the evidence of WHY? it is a superb solution
    Fiction may come and go
    But peace from atheism you can know

    See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–4relah_Ow , Carine Donze channel.

  7. Denmark has 79% of its people belonging to the Church of Denmark. 75% believe there is a God or some sort of spirit. Furthermore 25% specifically believe Jesus is the son of God. Only 24% are atheists. (source: wikipedia)

    Instead of Denmark, the barmaid should have said “South Korea” or “Japan”.

    1. So 50% of Danes may think there might be a god, but probably one that doesn’t care about redemption/deign to send a whipping boy. And either 79% had parents who bothered to baptize, or the Church of Denmark simply uploads grade-school class lists… the old opt-out system.

      1. We had a Danish kid living with us some time back, from Copenhagen. He knew the figures on this. 4% of Danes admit to going to church regularly. Huge numbers are cultural xians, so-called, turning up for service at Xmas. He did say that rural folk probably were more observant.

    2. Isn’t there some weird reason that Danes belong to the church of Denmark? I seem to recall that they were just registered this way upon birth but most of them never went to church or identified as Christians.

      1. Most people in Denmark are a member of the State Church, because they never bother to send in the blanket, that stops that membership. A lot of people in my generation (I’m 45) were baptized and thus automatically became members of the State Church. My parents were atheists and quite vocal about it, but my grandparents weren’t and it would have split the family if I – and my brothers – hadn’t been baptized. None of us are members of the State Church, but you really have to order blankets, fill them out, and send them with copies of birth-certificates etc. to get out.

        2. Ingesting mistranslation there, Trine.

          By “blanket” I take it you mean some kind of form, not a bed covering … ?

          (Like my Dutch friend who use to say “shield” instead of “road signs”.)

          /@

          1. Hmmmm – I think maybe I had had too little coffee before I wrote this one. I found three of the same type – but missed this one 😀 Yup I meant a form! A blank form that you can fill out. 😉 Thanks!

          2. I think it’s appropriate, in an inappropriate sort of way:

            A member with hard enough principles will need a (wet) blanket in order to pull out of the institution.

            😀

        3. I think this is roughly the same for all of Scandinavia. Here in Norway you are automatically a member of the state church if you are baptized(which most are simply because it’s tradition), and to leave there is not even a form to fill in, you have to compose your own letter and send it to some representative of the church in your area or something, which is why roughly 80% of the population are members, while statistics show that only 20-30% believe in god in some way, and only a couple of percent attend church regularly. If I remember correctly, the average age of church goers is well into the 50s and climbing.

          Sweden used to have a similar system, I think, but it changed recently.

          All these countries used to have a fairly homogenous population, but have seen a lot of immigration in the last few decades. This is true for a lot of countries.

        4. I had a mental picture of an actual blanket, issued to all Danes at birth, as metaphor for their church membership.

          2. What is so weird is I totally understood the “blanket” meaning and figured it was just a use of the word I hadn’t heard. A new migraine was emerging yesterday though so perhaps it’s a weird side effect of skewed cognition. 🙂

        5. Thanks for confirming what was a shadow of a memory of hearing about this!

  8. Though I am nominally a vegetarian, I just can’t quite give up the delicious blasphemy that is bacon.

    Pisses off Vegans, Vegetarians, Jews, and Muslims.

    2. …and I can’t eat piggies because I like them so much. It’s a lot like that conversation in Pulp Fiction for me. 🙂

  9. This reminds me of religious “arguments” against gay marriage: If the gays are allowed to marry, the moral fabric of society will be destroyed. What is their evidence for amorality running amok in a society after it allows gays to marry? Well, the fact that gays are now getting married, because that is clearly amoral. See here for the takedown of an example.

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