As I’m occupied with another writing assignment, and because I’m trying to take a wee break from writing about news, as it’s so depressing, I’ll proffer this post to readers who want to weigh in on Minnesota.
As I’ve said before, I haven’t formed firm opinions about a lot of aspects of the ICE/military presence there and the clashes with protestors, and that’s because it’s hard to do so when you’re not on the ground seeing what happens in the street. Each side has its own videos and own interpretations, and it’s hard to figure out what is real and what is propaganda. It is clear that ICE has acted in a heavy-handed manner, that Trump is trying to punish that blue state, but it’s also hard to judge whether some ICE actions are defensible. Further, it’s clear that some of the protestors are, like Martin Luther King, Jr.in the Sixties, trying to provoke violence by the authorities as it helps their cause. That is civil disobedience, but for ICE the morality of the protestors’ cause is (to me) not nearly as clear as it was for the civil rights protests. I do not favor open borders, but it seems like many of the protestors—like many Democrats in general—do.
At any rate, that’s all the opinions I have now, and they are subject to change. (I haven’t weighed in on what happened to Renée Good, except that there needs to be an objective and thorough investigation by both the federal government and Minnesota, with sharing of information by both). If ICE officers look like they committed crimes, they should go through the judicial process.
So, here are some questions to discuss, but feel free to say what you think about the situation in general. Remember, be civil and don’t jump down my throat for raising this issue.
a.) How heavy-handed is ICE acting relative to how they should be acting? Should they even be there?
b.) It’s likely that the National Guard and the U.S. military will be employed if the protests continue. Is this justifiable? If so, is it proper for Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act?
c.) Is the violence being exacerbated by the protestors, or is it solely the result of ICE?
d.) Do you think the protestors really want no enforcement of immigration laws, i.e., open borders? Would that apply to every immigrant, including the criminals so loudly touted by Kristi Noem?
e.) Are governor Walz and Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey exacerbating the situation? Are they correct in calling for ICE to leave Minnesota?
f.) If you were President, how would you handle the situation?
. . . and so on.
Should ICE be there? Yes. Illegals are here illegally and are consuming government resources. Is ICE being to rough? No idea.
Will the Federal government deploy troops? No idea. I hope not, because that will play into the hands of the people organizing the protests.
Violence is solely caused by the protestors. They want things like the shootings to happen. They are hoping for another wave of George Floyd riots. ICE is managing to work in place like Louisiana and Tennessee without any of these issues.
Do I think the protestors want open borders? It’s hard to know what all the protestors want. Some undoubtedly listen to the news and think that what ICE is doing is not just wrong, but criminal. The people driving the protests, though, want open borders. Open borders do too many good things for them: increase the number of voters on the left, consume government funding (which means wealth transference, dilute American culture (if you import the Third World, you get the Third World). Ultimately, though, you have to recognize that many of the groups funding and organizing the protests are revolutionary. They would love an actual insurrection (which also plays into their fantasies of storming the Winter Palace or shooting counter-revolutionaries).
At the same time, though, the protests distract people and prevent a discussion about why it is that the Democrats and others on the Left are so dead set on keeping illegals in the country. As many have pointed out, Bush, Clinton, Obama all deported millions of illegal aliens without any issues.
Yes, the Governor and the Mayor are exacerbating the situation. Their languages reinforces the medias narrative. They should be voices of reason and should be de-escalating the situation. They have a responsibility under our system of government to cooperate with Federal authorities in the execution of the laws.
I would do exactly what the Administration is doing, except that I would be doing much more communicating to the nation about why we are doing this and what is actually happening. I think Trump is happy to think the MAGA is behind him. He needs to bring others along with him.
The protesters want ICE to stop arresting and harassing legal immigrants and US citizens, of which there is documented evidence in the news most days. I have no idea where this idea about “wanting open borders” comes from, perhaps Fox news.
The reason why Bush, Obama and Clinton (and Biden) had no problem is that ICE didn’t behave this way under their government.
I would side with the people who claim that this is all about scareing people so that they don’t go out to vote in the midterms. But then, I’m a “radical leftist”
“The reason why Bush, Obama and Clinton (and Biden) had no problem is that ICE didn’t behave this way under their government.”
Well-put. Prioritize going after those with criminal backgrounds, go after them as individuals and get them out the right way (per Bush, Obama, et al.). Don’t hire thousands of new recruits itching for a fight and then send them in as huge military forces to terrrorize whole neighborhoods (full of citizens as well as legal and illegal immigrants), prowl around schools with masks and guns until kids (legal or not) are afraid to go to school. At some point, it looks like (and probably is) armed bullies going in to terrorize the most vulnerable families. Definitely not the way Bush and Obama did it.
Of course they want open borders. That’s what “sanctuary” cities and states are all about – no deportations of illegals here! What has mystified me in the past is why open borders, which was once a Libertarian/Republican cause fuelled by big business interests but opposed by Dems (I am old enough to remember when Ceasar Chavez and his United Farm Workers were heroes to the Left for campaigning and protesting against illegal immigration in support of American workers), has become one of the Left’s causes du jour. I suspect it is because of the rise of identity politics and the oppressor/oppressed dualism that now infects the Left, in which “people of color” (except Asians, as they are too successful) can do no wrong. Or it could reflect a cynical manipulation of the Left by big business interests, or both.
We should take the billions we’re about to vote for that plastic-faced woman who shot her dog and put it into immigration courts, enforcing the border at the border, and doing something to address the fact that ICE is crippling American construction and agriculture. I cannot understand how we have become a nation that ignores our own constitution and the rights of the poorest and weakest. Of course, given our approach to foreign policy, the internal problems may be moot when the rest of the world calls in its gold and loses faith in the dollar.
Construction and agriculture – big business interests that want to keep undercutting American wages by hiring illegals who will work for peanuts. That was the argument for retaining slavery – might as well eliminate wages altogether!
Ag is “Undercutting American wages??”. I live, drive, and bicycle in a CA Central Valley agricultural area. In the orchards, vineyards, and dairies, I see people work long, hard hours in all kinds of weather. Ironic that properties showing Trump flags seem to have only Latino laborers. Even with a shortage, I don’t see Anglos lining up to do that work.
They have to be offered decent wages. That experiment was run here in Australia when the borders were closed due to covid. Aussies were hired at higher wages as agricultural workers, dishwashers etc. than the low paid foreign workers used previously. If it is possible here it is surely possible in the USA, much as big business interests won’t like it.
” . . . ICE is crippling American construction and agriculture.”
Were all immigrant agricultural workers here legally (“documented”) would there be a problem?
AI informs me that approximately 40% of agricultural workers are undocumented. Why? Is it that inconvenient to jump through the bureaucratic hoops? (Apparently it was not for the remaining 60%.) Can agricultural “producers” (as they are called – do they themselves earn their keep by the sweat of their brow laboring in the fields?) not be sufficiently troubled to mind their business/legal immigration-related documentary obligations?
Perhaps certain immigrant child agricultural labor exemptions should be further relaxed for the sake of minimizing grocery price increases for convenience-focused Americans.
There was a time when native born Americans, possessed of substantial stoic grit and perseverance (and “American Exceptionalism”?), put their nose to the grindstone and as circumstances imposed themselves submitted to and endured manual labor. Not that everyone has to do that or do it for long, but the post-Boomer generations seem particularly averse to it. Would $100,000/year be sufficient to entice them to do such work, if only for one year?
Why restrict the consideration to agriculture and construction. No doubt there are numerous supremely qualified professionals (medical, legal, engineering, media, academic) in other countries who would be glad to work in the U.S. for substantially less money than is paid to the native-born.
(I wouldn’t presume to utter the first word about manual labor had I not done my share of waiting tables, working in a lumber mill, a feed mill, hauling hay, catching chickens off the roost, working as a nursing assistant, and serving in the military.)
I strongly disagree. The Trump administration is encouraging a heavy handed approach that often violates the Fourth and Fifth amendments in order to provoke violence to “justify” deploying the military and possibly invoking the Insurrection Act.
Obama deported over 3 million people without resorting to these abusive, deliberately cruel tactics. This is all about the draft dodger Trump wanting to appear tough.
Regarding some of your points….
Many undocumented immigrants are only in violation of civil, not criminal laws, and if they are providing needed labor, running businesses, etc., they are hardly consuming government resources. You have no idea if ICE is being too rough? Are you OK with their grabbing children and/or US Citizens based on suspicions and not carrying a Passport? Breaking into homes without judicial warrants (suggest you read the text of the 4th amendment)? Grabbing phones, spraying teargas with minimal provocation? Not prioritizing those with a history of violent crime?
I’ll grant that some protestors are being provocative, but most are out exercising 1st Amendment rights. IMO, ICE is often the provocateur, with permission and possibly encouragement of the Administration.
You seem certain about the motivations of protestors (and their alleged “leaders”) who want to “import the Third World.” This argument has been used in the US for >100 years, including against Irish, Italians, Asian, Eastern European immigrants, and until the 1960s, those could be legally discriminated against. Did they turn us into a 3rd world society?
And can you specify who are the groups “funding and organizing” protests and in what way they are “revolutionary?” Maybe a lot of Minnesotans are unhappy with ICE tactics and are expressing 1st A rights.
And the “leaders” want to increase Left voters? Only citizens can vote; or do you agree with Trump’s repeated and unfounded assertions about massive voter fraud?
Re the mayor and governor..I’ve heard them ask for calm and peaceful protest, as well as asking ICE to leave, given the current level of anger among ordinary citizens. Meanwhile, the Administration claims that all ICE activities are justified, and they have “total immunity” (per Yale Law grad JDV). As you point out, ICE previously did its job without provoking violence.
If I were POTUS? I’d fire Noem, Patel, and Miller (at a minimum), have ICE pull back until there was a total review of their training and tactics, as well as an independent review of any detentions of US citizens, violations of 1st and 4th A. OTOH,if I were DJT, I’d turn it up to 11 or 12, expecting even more violence, to justify invoking the Insurrection Act and carrying through with prior threats to cancel elections, or seize voting machines, etc., and thus designate the winners of the ’26 elections…kinda like the former dictator of Venezuela.
Who is funding it?
What literature provides background for it?
The 2026 ICE protest in Minnesota did not take place
After Jean Baudrillard
The Gulf War did not take place
Indiana University Press
1995 English ed.
Sorry, but what do you mean by “it”? And what do you mean “what literature provides background for it? Please clarify.
Say the crowds’ movements for instance – transport, accommodations, drone camera recordings, and so on.
And I thought there might be publications of any sort to illuminate the thought process behind the participants’ organization, action, training, and impetus.
But I understand all that might be beyond the scope here.
I think we can’t get an unbiased investigation – and won’t for quite a while.
There’s been another fatal shooting. All hell is coming. Cities will burn.
added in edit; I believe this is the outcome the administration hoped for. The coming violence will give them the cover they wanted. Things are very precarious.
Another person killed. Just now.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2026/01/24/us/minneapolis-shooting-ice
I think ICE is being very heavy handed.
Also this morning I read that the suspect in a massive jewel heist in California was deported rather than being charged!!! It makes no sense.
It’s not clear. There are reports the man had a pistol and fought with officers.
It’s breaking news. I provided a link.
My comment was intended to refer to previous conduct, not the latest incident about which little is known.
The news is, of course, ongoing,. But it appears the victim was a 37 year old white male citizen with a legal permit for and to carry the gun. Whatever he was doing, it looks like he did resist and in America, that has a death sentence.
This is going to be very ugly.
Hopefully we will have clarity later on. Given recent past, even if this one has arguably unjustified killing aspects to it, we know the current admin. will suppress transparent legal proceedings.
The man was trying to get between a protester and an ICE agent who was spraying her. He had a camera in one hand. He was tacked, taken down by a gang of ICE agents. Then they shot him. Multiple times. Reports in the NYT claim his gun actually emerged from the pile by ICE agents before the first shot.
For the Republicans in the audience, please listen to this Fox News report on the shooting and compare it with what Noem has said about it. Once again we have blatant federal lies easily contradicted by video:
He supposedly had a legal gun. There was no evidence he ever tried to use it. It was removed from him and then he was shot.
As Trump loves to say, “I could shoot someone on 5th Ave and my supporters would still support me” I am sad to say he was right.
As Jerry notes, “it is hard to figure out what is real and what is propaganda.” Rather than add my voice and confirmation bias to the mix about Minnesota specifics, I offer a piece that expands on Jerry’s observation about the difficulty in sorting out truth—particularly when otherwise well-informed people sincerely—and mistakenly—believe they possess that truth.
The below is from a Substack essay by a Notre Dame professor, a specialist in immigration policy and, himself, an immigrant from the former Soviet Union. In it, he catalogues “a set of empirical beliefs, arguments, and narratives that are hard to justify given the best available evidence, but that are common among highly educated pro-immigration elites, including left-of-center and even moderate academics, advocates, and journalists in North America and Western Europe.”
One other excerpt followed by the Substack link: “In my own experience at workshops and conferences, I have repeatedly seen findings that cannot be unambiguously read as ‘immigration is good’ quietly downplayed, reframed, or dropped from papers. Well-meaning colleagues have suggested that I soften or remove results that might ‘feed the far right,’ even when the estimates are robust. I have heard explicit advice not to emphasize negative fiscal impacts, violence spikes tied to specific policy failures, or integration problems in particular contexts – even when these are well documented.
The pattern does not stop in the seminar room. Once the more reassuring estimates are the ones that survive peer review and internal vetting, advocacy organizations put them in press releases and policy briefs, stripped of nuance. Journalists then write ‘here is what the research says’ pieces that present those filtered results as the consensus view, and sympathetic politicians cite those summaries as if they meant ‘immigration has no losers.’ At each step, the message gets cleaner and less conditional.”
https://alexanderkustov.substack.com/p/the-uncomfortable-truths-about-immigration
I worked in law enforcement (in an EU MS) for 34 years, the last seven of which were in investigating alleged police criminality. That included a number of police shootings. In all my career I have never seen such ill-trained, ill equipped (and I don’t mean paramilitary gear) and aggressive behaviour by LEOs. It is absolutely shocking and would not be tolerated this side of the Atlantic. Raised on a diet of John Wayne, Dirty Harry and Die Hard, Americans seem to think an instant resort to heavy handed or lethal violence is an appropriate response to a range of perceived infractions whereas to the rest of us it looks like the Wild West. It’s not normal folks. Not normal.
Ok, but I would not want to be painted with that broad brush. Most of us Americans are appalled. But unfortunately we are also getting used to it.
Just a plea about civil disobedience. In principle, CD is the act of non-violently disobeying a law you believe is unjust, in order that bad publicity around your arrest and conviction will shame the government into repealing the law. To be less reverential to the civil rights movement than many liberal Americans are comfortable with, most of the CD in the south was of the trivial sort with only modest penalties, like sitting in the wrong end of the bus and getting arrested. Protests that followed like the bus boycott were perfectly legal. No one burned any busses or beat up scabs who rode them.
When protestors break laws they otherwise agree with as a way to provoke violence from the authorities, as with protests that filled the streets and blocked bridges, then you are talking about something else, not CD. No one (I don’t think) believes that laws against blocking traffic in a public road should be repealed as we would have chaos. Protestors would deny with impunity free use by the public of public infrastructure every time they wanted to intimidate someone in authority, or just have a street party. That’s not what the civil rights activists wanted. The wanted the government to change laws on racial segregation and they broke other unrelated laws to apply the pressure to achieve it. (The “pressure” comes in the fear the state always has that it might be overthrown if it can’t contain law-breaking.) Not civil disobedience.
Frustrating the activities of ICE is either legal protest (if they keep their distance) or is just plain old law-breaking. Civil disobedience would be invoked if protestors interfering with ICE sought to repeal laws that make it a crime to interfere with police officers, which might be what some of them want, although they don’t publicly say so, and surely cannot have much popular support. Another form of civil disobedience would be to help aliens enter the country illegally and do it publicly so as to dare the Border Patrol to arrest you, hoping to get Congress to repeal the immigration laws. But they aren’t doing that in Minneapolis either.
So even if the unlawful subset of tactics of anti-ICE demonstrators are vaguely reminiscent of the civil-rights protests in provoking state violence and undermining its authority, that was revolutionary activity in both cases, not civil disobedience.
I’ll put on the table this reality: the promise was to detain criminals. Setting aside the fact that illegal entry is a crime, the promise was to go after those who were additionally criminals in other nations, and here. (There is a generous self-deportation program for non-criminals, and 1.8 million have taken that deal.)
Meanwhile, governments of blue states are hindering, blocking, and denying ICE from going after criminals who are sitting in jail!
So, ice has to wait until the dudes are released, then go hunt them down in the street. The street is not cooperating in MN.
If the DemState officials actually cooperated with ICE, substantial progress could be made on “the promise.”
But no, those blue cities are “sanctuary cities.”
Ok, but then there are numerous reports of ICE going far beyond that.
Mark, please be specific.
This is a misleading claim. None of these municipalities are interfering with federal law enforcement, they are mostly just not assisting in federal operations.
“Sanctuary City” is a term applied by the Right to municipalities using Separation Ordinances, which are legal and prioritize police for local law enforcement and not for immigration control.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2025/10/01/how-might-minnesotas-sanctuary-city-policies-stand-up-in-court
Phil L
Are you saying that John Donohue has left a misleading claim?
I find this a bit offensive, since as others have pointed out, prior administrations have achieved “the promise” without all the violence, mass protests, and brutality. As far as I can tell, nobody objects to deporting undocumented aliens with criminal records. What has precipitated all the protest has been the indiscriminate methods ICE has been using – grabbing citizens, legal immigrants, people legally applying for residence, the elderly, young children, all of whom have committed no crimes and many of whom have been respected and productive members of their communities for decades. You can’t block ICE from kidnapping all of these people without blocking them from arresting actual criminals as a side effect. It’s misleading to blame the “DemState” when untrained, masked, unidentified, armed agents are smashing car windows to haul citizens into frozen streets, gassing them, even shooting them. That is NOT the way to enforce immigration laws. It makes the claim that the administration is using these techniques to provoke pretexts to armed occupation more plausible.
Imagine the improvements if the billions being spent on ICE were instead spent on immigration courts, more paths to citizenship, more enforcement of actual crimes (beyond the mere lack of legal residence). Imagine if our leaders wanted to help Americans, rather than blaming the victims of their own inability to grasp what’s actually happening.
Spot on.
What, exactly, do you find offensive?
I was responding to comment #8, which (as I read it) was placing the blame for all these ICE issues on the “DemState”, the protesters, and the sanctuary cities. The implication is that the governments of “blue states” are causing the trouble because they are interfering with the (implied) lawful and organized ICE efforts to protect us from the criminal elements among illegal immigrants. The onus seemed to be squarely on those who object to ICE tactics. I am offended by both the “show me your papers” approach to policing, and those applauding police state tactics.
I find it offensive to watch people reporting to courthouses according to the law as part of the naturalization process, only to be arrested and shipped away somewhere. I find it offensive that US citizens can be arrested and deported legally, simply because they are the wrong color (SCOTUS agreed to this!). And in this case, I find it offensive to claim that these “DemState” protesters are interfering with regular enforcement of law and order. Millions of protesters don’t take to the streets repeatedly, even in sub-zero temperatures, to object to regular enforcement of law and order, never have.
Donohue writes “governments of blue states are hindering, blocking, and denying ICE from going after criminals who are sitting in jail!” But Home Depot parking lots and churches are not jails, and if we look carefully, we find that ICE isn’t active anywhere that voted for Trump. Why not? Coincidence? Agriculture in Florida depends on undocumented immigrants, but ICE ignores them. Why? Could it be that Florida voted for Trump and is governed by Republicans?
Is this true? These cities have, if I understand right, policies that when they are about to release such a person from jain (possibly from some minor follow-up offence) the city PD will not inform ICE to pick him up, and instead release him onto the street. That sounds like a policy explicitly designed to avoid such deportations.
But they have not. To get high numbers for earlier years, you have to lump together border turn-arounds (which were more numerous) with in-country arrests.
1) We might split hairs about whether non-cooperation with ICE is the same thing as wanting undocumented immigrants with criminal records as neighbors. I can only note the lack of objection to deporting undocumented criminals. Personally, I do not object to a neighbor who committed some minor offense and paid the penalty.
2) As I understood it, “the promise” was to focus exclusively on “the worst of the worst”, but failing that, at least to go after criminals. I never interpreted the promise as, successfully rounding up every undocumented immigrant with a criminal record, which I doubt is even possible. In other words, “the promise” was to go after the bad guys and leave others alone. And this HAS been achieved in the past, in intent if not in execution.
But why leave the others alone? They are in the country illegally. They drive down workers’ wages and strain social services. I grew up in CA and am old enough to remember when mass roundups of illegals for deportation were normal and uncontested. What has changed since then?
Watch something other than Fox News:
Even Fox News is saying this shooting seems unjustified. There doesn’t seem to be any question that this killing was wrong, unless there is some major factor that neither side has brought up yet.
My solution is to offer $10k to every illegal immigrant, including children, to go back to their countries. Most willl accept it. You can fix this problem with less than $100 billion. Peanuts, and it’s humane.
The offer is already $2600! Plus free transportation to country origin.
35,000 have taken that deal.
My solution isn’t to evict immigrants, but rather to make immigration easier and to regulate it rather than outlaw it. The articles I’ve read emphasize that most immigrants are illegal solely by their presence, not by their behavior. Except Native Americans, we are all immigrants or descended from immigrants, so immigration isn’t necessarily a bad thing – unless we decide it is (and the immigrants are from s-hole countries and not from Norway!)
No, illegal immigrants are not good. I was talking to one a while ago – he was working construction, doing electrical work without certification. Working 12 hours, with no overtime. Would you buy that house? Illegal immigration corrupts everything.
George J. Borjas (America’s leading immigration economist) has written a lot about this. I recommend “We Wanted Workers” (https://www.scribd.com/document/839171608/George-J-Borjas-We-Wanted-Workers-1). The famous line “We wanted workers, but we got people instead” is actually from Max Frisch (a Swiss playwright).
The simple issue is that there are several categories:
– authorized immigrants at some stage of applying for naturalization
– immigrants applying for refugee status
– immigrants with no authorization, labeled as either undocumented or illegal.
The argument from the MAGA side is that these groups include many criminals and are a drain on public resources, so it’s in the public interest to deport them. There is also an element of racism, in claiming that non-White immigrants are replacing Whites and weakening the country’s culture.
The argument from the Left is that most immigrants are assets to society and should be allowed to stay and given some form of protected status. This argument rarely if ever includes calls for open borders, it mostly addresses those already in the country.
If the country is to pursue the goal of deporting all undocumented immigrants, there won’t be any way to do that except to force everyone in the country to verify their legal status. This is what ICE is doing, at least with non-Whites. The Supreme Court has approved their right to interrogate anyone based on appearance and accent.
Should the country proceed with such a purge? Here are the problems:
– It empowers ICE with extrajudicial authority to detain and question anyone and deport them without a hearing, in violation of constitutional protections. They are also violating the rights of citizens, and at times ignoring court orders.
– ICE operations have caused significant disruptions to otherwise peaceful communities, and its agents have engaged in unnecessary levels of violence, including the death of several people.
– Most of those detained have no criminal records, contrary to the administration’s claims.
– Immigrants are for the most part not detrimental to the country; to the contrary they comprise essential parts of key industries from agriculture to construction. They also pay taxes and support the economy as consumers.
Based on these points, I do not see sufficient justification for ICE operations. The issue of immigration clearly needs reform, but I don’t think that the current administration is interested in that, rather, they see the issue as a political rallying point and an opportunity to gain extrajudicial powers through the deployment of military units in US cities. Frankly, I find that much more of a threat to the country than the presence of undocumented immigrants.
For people with children: do your children have paperwork with them at all times that proves they are citizens? I assume that without that proof they can be detained by ICE.
My wife is of Asian descent. She will have to carry verification with her any time she’s in public. Or maybe in our house, if ICE decides to bust our front door down.
The strategy they have not pursued is mandatory E-Verify, and penalties for employers knowingly hiring illegally. Every employer has to tell the IRS about employment, and it seems very surprising that you can simply write a fake/stolen SSID on the form and (apparently) nobody cares.
Making illegal employment very difficult would of course not catch everyone, but would probably move big numbers without stopping everybody on the street.
Do you know good sources of up-to-date data?
A recent NYT article gives (for 2025 deportations) 5000 with convictions, 2700 with criminal charges pending, 2100 with no charges. That sounds like quite a high percentage criminal, although a minority convicted.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/01/18/us/trump-deportation-numbers-immigration-crackdown.html
Good numbers are hard to come by, but here’s something more or less recent:
https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118692/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20251118-SD001.pdf
Some informative graphs here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/aug/29/trump-immigration-ice-cbp-data
But if you say you don’t want open borders, how do you accumulate all those law-abiding productive taxpaying illegal aliens you say should be allowed (by whom?) to stay? And if you disband ICE operations, how do you get rid of the aliens, legal and otherwise, whom you do want to deport for the good reason that they are bad actors, drunk drivers, and other convicted criminals? (DUI is a criminal offence. I’m just singling it out because apologists complain that some deportees were guilty “only” of DUI. Good riddance.) A lot of these people don’t want to be found, and won’t go quietly. You need cops for that job. And you acknowledged they do their profiling investigation as per the Constitution.
States everywhere exercise broad powers to enforce the border and who gets in. If you don’t travel abroad much, it may surprise you just how much power the Border Patrol agent has to detain, interrogate, search, (your person, your phone, and your vehicle) and seize even in respect of U.S. citizens as they enforce the Customs and Immigration laws. Foreigners even with Green Cards can be barred entry for any reason the border agent smells fishy about them. There is no due process at the U.S. border, nor at any border.
This carries over into foreigners inside the United States. No one can be fined, imprisoned, or executed without “due process” but aliens can be administratively deported pretty much at the pleasure of Homeland Security. Not quite, but close. If you are denied entry and can’t be just walked back over the land border into Canada or Mexico where you are a citizen, ICE will hold you in detention until they can get a flight home organized for you. For sure no hearing there.
If you wanted to argue that long-term peaceful illegal aliens should get “ICE-Leave-Me-Alone” cards you’d be asking the Administration to make an enforcement policy change, unless Congress changed the law. The Executive makes its own determination of how it deploys its resources to enforce Congress’s laws. It isn’t typically up to The People to tell the Executive which tailgating drivers should be let off and which should get tickets. Same with ICE.
ICE was created in 2003 as an arm of Homeland Security and as a reaction to 9-11. You write as if it’s some established and respected agency of the federal government on par with the U.S. Marshalls. “If you disband ICE, OMG! what will happen? How could we have survived the 20th century!!!” I think ICE is ill-conceived (as is Homeland Security). It was a reactionary creation with little forethought fueled by (understandably) fear, desperation and paranoia. It was given too much power, too quickly with too much independence and not enough oversight. You might just consider it a federal agency ripe for an executive authoritarian takeover.
Simply put, right now, ICE (meaning Steven Miller’s new iteration of the agency) is an arm of Trump’s political agenda. This isn’t about immigration or illegal immigrants, never was (all the money this administration spent on ICE/border security could have alleviated much of the immigration “problem” if they wanted to, but intelligence and compassion would be needed). This is about power and the accumulation of power through any means necessary. It’s the fascist playbook Jake!
I don’t write that way at all, Mark. You’re using quotation marks around something I didn’t even say. I just know that someone has to enforce the customs and immigration law, and someone always has. Depending on how you arrange e, c, and i, you get ICE, is all I’m saying.
Your system where federal agents enforce federal laws and local/state police can decline entirely to cooperate with the federal power is a source of conflict we don’t have in Canada because our whole policing system is different. Local cops enforce all laws from jaywalking to murder; they call on senior forces for investigative help in major cases, if necessary. (The RCMP looks after national security but not immigration. They are also contracted as the local cops in the rural areas of all but two provinces. We don ‘t have county sheriffs anywhere. If you get pulled over for speeding in Banff — don’t hit a moose or a grizzly — , it’ll be a Mountie. Doesn’t mean you’ve committed a federal crime.)
I understand why you do it your way but still, if our Border Services Agency was trying to apprehend someone in Toronto for deportation and a riot started, the Toronto Police Force (who would be along for the ride anyway) would turn out to keep order. They wouldn’t leave the outnumbered federal agents to fend for themselves and fly off the handle and shoot people. The presence of police with respected local authority probably helps keep the feds in line, too. I find it hard to imagine that huge crowds would turn out to obstruct the effort in any case. There is something weird going on. Bryan refers to “beautiful trouble.”
Anyway, somebody has to do it. I don’t dispute your criticism of how ICE was founded or how it is organized and works. You are entitled to your opinion about what it “really” does. I hope this isn’t an over-comment but I’m trying to build bridges here. I’m not going to say anything else about the ICE shooting today because it wouldn’t do any good.
Best/
I just read this in the NYT. It sounds horrible and needs to be investigated by every possible agency. I won’t say that ICE murdered someone until the facts are in, but this is happening too often.
From Greg Bovino
Greg Bovino: “An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol agents with a 9mm semi-automatic handgun. The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but he violently resisted. Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, a Border Patrol agent fired defensive shots…This looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.”
See my Fox News video above. Even Fox News is recognizing that the DHS seems to be lying again. And the feds are also keeping Minnesota police officials from approaching the scene to gather evidence. Again.
This victim seems to have been shot multiple times while he was immobilized on the ground. He was carrying a legal gun initially but that was taken from him while he was on the ground. He was unarmed when shot.
As I write this, ICE has shot and killed another person in Minnesota.
Does anyone know of similar situations in other cities where ICE has been during current situations?
All, almost, large/larger American cities are “blue”. So what different is going on in Minneapolis?
I just saw this…….thoughts?
https://x.com/camhigby/status/2014806295119859747
Even accepting that ICE has a justifiable role in immigration enforcement, I think that ICE is being heavy handed in its tactics. Strident pushback from state officials and protestors is causing the Trump administration to double down, making things worse. State, Minneapolis, federal officials, and the protestors themselves are engaged in a pi##ing contest with no end in sight. People are at risk in Minneapolis and the unrest there is fomenting protests in other major cities as well. Someone needs to make the first move toward resolution.
If I were President, I would make that first move. I would put out a press release saying that the federal government has captured 10,000 (or whatever) criminal aliens and has completed its main surge and is heretofore reducing the ICE force in Minneapolis to a maintenance level. (In essence, I would declare victory.) In the same press release, I would say that while the main surge has ended, the federal government will nonetheless continue to have a presence in Minneapolis to investigate the allegations of fraud (perpetrated by Somali immigrants). In the same press release, I would ask protestors to resume their normal lives.
In parallel, the President, or VP Vance, or Homeland Security chief Kristi Noem (or any combination thereof) should meet with Governor Walz and Mayor Frey and figure out a way for local and federal authorities to work together. (They don’t have to like each other, but they cannot engage in civil war.) The outcome of this should be a joint press release from state and federal officials outlining the agreement and asking Minneapolis residents for their cooperation. The goal is to bring normalcy back to the city.
Egos, battles over jurisdiction, and protestor rage—all reinforced by a media magnetically drawn to 5-year-old children being “detained” and grandmothers being sprayed in the face by chemical irritants—are all conspiring to ruin the social contract between the government and the public that enables America to function.
Someone, Mr. President, needs to stand up and stop the descent into madness.
I respect your intention, NG, to respond to this situation rationally. However, after watching 2 videos of the shooting of Mr. Pretti, I find it hard to believe that there is a rational solution to this violence. Consider the fact that Bovino blamed the man for having a gun. He had a gun! Americans should be allowed to carry guns? Excuse me while I go ride the porcelain bus.
Yes, the hypocrisy of Republican gun rights supporters justifying ICE here is pretty sad.
But in fact he actually did not have the gun when he was shot. It was taken from him by ICE.
No discussion of these events makes sense without simply seeing the events as they unfolded. There are mutiple available angles.
Here we see how the whole thing began, in that he was simply moving to defend the woman ICE pushed to the ground in the snow, held up his hands and was just maced in the face: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qlvi6m/video_of_the_shooting_from_the_lady_in_pink/
Here we see the officer draw his weapon and start shooting at him for no reason whatsoever: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qlzdqc/stabilized_version_of_the_shooting_nsfwnsfl_not/
Here we see he has his hands in front of his face when the first shots are fired: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qlw1f7/another_angle_of_the_shooting_was_released_from/
Here we see that he was already disarmed before the first shot was fired (an ice agent walks away with the pistol):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qlxd49/some_are_claiming_this_video_shows_that_the/
ICE has no reasonable defense. He was resisting only in the sense of shielding himself from blows and kicks. He had 5 guys on him and was in no position to do serious damage to anyone. He had a pistol on him but it was seized by ICE, and only after this had occurred did an ICE officer draw his firearm and kill the man for no reason whatsoever.
The Trump administration is claiming he was there to start a massacre, which is just completely and obviously insane.
I can’t believe that I just saw this. It’s sickening.
That was murder, full stop. It’s time to get active against these thugs.
I find it appalling that so many Americans have gotten used to this and will defend it, even when faced with clear video evidence that contradicts “the official story”. It could not be more Orwellian. And this from the lot who previously bleeted ad nauseum to the world about their “free speech”, their “freedom”, and their rights! It’s sickening. I will never visit the USA again.
Yes, totally agree, absolutely disgusting!
Watching various angles of the shooting:
He was holding a cell phone when pepper-sprayed in the face.
He was taken down to the ground by 6+ feds.
He was struck 3 times by a fed with the fed’s gun.
He had a permit to carry a gun, which was removed.
He was then shot multiple times.
He was executed.
One fed said “Boo hoo”.
This is the result of poorly-trained and masked thugs who feel free to do as they please with the blessing of the Trump administration. It is not a surprise that Trump had removed the requirement for them to carry body cams.
The Trump administration is already spinning this as a justified killing. Nothing they say should be believed. Remember the guy who shot Renee Good walked away and was taken to a federal building, but then it was reported he had “internal bleeding” from being “struck” by her vehicle? Where is a hospital report or doctor’s report on this internal bleeding? This administration is filled with pathological liars.
Since you ask, neither the hospital nor the doctor will release medical information about a patient without his consent, just for the titillation of the public. It can be subpoenaed if necessary for the administration of justice.
Whether or not the protestors really want no enforcement of immigration laws is irrelevant to consideration of how ICE is operating.
Agreed
Agreed, except that the pro-open-borders mob is deliberately attempting to disrupt their operations. In red states ICE is also operating but without all the drama. And part of me suspects that in Minnesota this is a strategy intended to distract the public from the massive Somali fraud scandals in that state, which brought down the campaign of the disgraced governor Walz.
On the contrary, these are provocations by Trump to provoke violence, so he can paint blue states and liberals as dangerous.
You can see this is not about the Somalis because the chief federal prosecutor responsible for prosecuting the Somali fraudsters has resigned over the Renee Good shooting.
Meanwhile, Trump has pardoned many fraudsters, which also means they don’t have to pay any restitution ordered by the courts.https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/trumps-pardons-forgive-financial-crimes-came-hundreds-millions-punishm-rcna248277
Even if the Border Patrol or ICE agent is in the wrong, that doesn’t mean immigration laws should not be enforced.
These agents are only human. If placed under enough pressure, mistakes are bound to happen.
To everyone, please obey the Roolz about posting too often. On this thread.
This issue was “resolved” on 2024/11/5. Trump ran on platform that included immigration enforcement. The Biden administration did not enforce the border and suffered the political consequences. This issue is not really about Minneapolis/Trump/USA. This issue is global (not really). Check out the UK/France/Italy/Sweden/Germany/etc. The public is revolting against Open Borders.
It turns out that Asia has maintained tight controls on immigration and benefited according.
difference is, obama, bush jr., clinton, bush sr., regan, etc, told all branches of federal law enforcement, if you are making the news you are doing it wrong and I will be pissed. trump, if you aren’t making the news, you are doing it wrong and I will be pissed.
The deceased was an ICU nurse. I want to know what a nurse, who has a critically ill patient assignment that likely started at 1930 this evening or tomorrow a.m. which he won’t be able to cover, was doing at an anti-police protest carrying a gun. (Yes I know he was carrying legally.) Who is going to look after his patient? The colleague he should have been relieving, who will now have to do a second 12-hour shift, as my wife had to do more than once? They can’t down tools because too many hours is “unsafe”. The patient is still there and needs constant attention. Ironic if they had had to double to look after him.
In our professions, the first thing the regulator wants to know when you become indisposed is, “What arrangements have you made to cover your patients?” We can’t just call in sick (or dead), you know. (That was one thing I loved about medicine: no excuses.) I understand the anger about what the ICE agent did, of course. But nurses and doctors aren’t supposed to risk throwing their lives away when patients depend on them. I’d feel the same about a watch commander on a warship or a nuclear power station or any other safety-critical industry that can’t just stop when someone gets taken out. I just know my work better than I know anything else.
His duty to humanity was at the bedside treating gunshot wounds, not foolishly, pointlessly protesting and getting one.
Wow, you know his schedule?
Excuse me, Mr Washington. Shouldn’t you be more worried about running your plantation than fretting about some rabid colonials protesting our God-given King George? If everyone just stayed home and did their jobs, we wouldn’t be having such a fuss.
The colonials didn’t “protest” the King’s men. They shot them. With guns. Is that what you want nurses to be doing in Minneapolis? Who’s going to treat the casualties on both sides?
I would like nurses and doctors on duty to treat injured and wounded and sick. Nurses and doctors, like most others in the US, are entitled to do as they wish on their time-off. If the filming ICE public activity (which is legal, as is following ICE agents and blowing whistles) carried a significant risk of death, that speaks rather poorly of ICE. Also, there were plenty of protests before Colonials engaged in armed revolution, e.g., Boston Tea Party.
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
The head of the ICE, Gregory Bovino, wears a coat similar to those favored by Nazi officers in the Third Reich. His remaining outfit completes the Nazi look: a closely cropped haircut, as if he had taken a photo of Ernst Röhm to the barber; a black shirt with badges on the collar tips; and perhaps the most extravagant accessory: a “Sam Browne” belt held in place by a leather strap slung diagonally across the shoulder, an accessory of historical officer uniforms.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/2026/01/19/9effc1f6-40d2-4845-a82c-5db985f15091.jpg?q=60&fm=avif&width=840&rect=924%2C190%2C2258%2C1270
I have closed comments on this thread as the discussion is getting overly heated. I will make my own remarks in the Nooz this morning.