Rabbi thrown out of Arizona city council meeting after objecting to Jesus prayer

February 17, 2016 • 12:00 pm

Religious hijinks are rife in Arizona, as the state repeatedly tries to flout the First Amendment by holding prayers before meetings of the state and city legislatures. The Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) reports two recent instances (my emphasis):

First, the Phoenix City Council laudably opted for a moment of silence, as FFRF has advocated for years (after a not-so-laudable emergency measure to avoid an invocation by the Satanic Temple). Its meeting dragged on for hours, with scores of citizens commenting passionately on the issue.

Next, the Legislature prohibited any invocations that do not call on a higher power. Arizona state Rep. Juan Mendez delivered a historic atheist invocation to the Statehouse in 2013. (FFRF presented him our Emperor Has No Clothes award for this brave act of open secularism.) Mendez gave another secular invocation in 2014. But this year, he was banned from doing so because his opening remarks would not address a higher power. This clearly violates the U.S. Supreme Court precedent (Town of Greece v. Galloway) that allows government prayer but only if minority faiths and atheists are heard, too.

Could you invoke the Universe as a “higher power”? Or is that not a “power”?

Now there’s a third episode, called to my attention by sometime reader Ben Goren. As the Daily Kos and the Chino Valley Review report, this one involves a meeting of the Chino Valley (Arizona) Town Council on February 9. Many previous meetings of the Council had begun with prayers. Then, in view of objections, the local mayor, Chris Marley, announced that he would not say a prayer at that meeting, and confirmed twice thereafter that no prayers would be said at any meetings until the Council discussed the issue. (The prayers had always been Christian, invoking Jesus.)

Rabbi Adele Plotkin (notice, Catholics, that there are female rabbis!), who had protested the Christian prayers, planned to attend the February 9 meeting, and was under the impression from the Mayor that no prayers would be offered.

Well, Mayor Marley, apparently under the power of his Savior, changed his mind and offered up a Christian prayer. As the FFRF reports,

He initially read a “disclaimer,” claiming the prayer was only his personal belief. Rabbi Adele Plotkin started to complain. Marley warned she would be removed if she continued, so she stopped. After Marley ended his prayer in Jesus’ name, Plotkin stood up and loudly protested. Marley had a police officer remove the rabbi from the room. So much for free speech and petitioning the government for redress of grievances.

Indeed, and so much for a lying mayor (see below).

And, Ceiling Cat be praised, there’s a video of the whole incident, with the prayers, with the rabbi summarily ejected, and then a vigorous Pledge of Allegiance. See what we face in the U.S.? A bunch of religionists who refuse to abide by the law of the land. Have a look at this three-minute episode:

Marley sounds like Jack Nicholson, doesn’t he? I almost expected him to yell at Rabbi Plotkin, “You can’t handle Jesus!”

The upshot is reported by The Daily Courier:

The one change that Marley said he would make, [sic] is he would ask the Town Clerk to post a notice outside of council chambers notifying the public that an invocation would be part of the proceedings.

Plotkin said she’s not going to let the issue go.

“I had a near-death experience, and I went through the bargaining phase, and I made a deal with God, that anything He put on my plate, I would run with,” she said. “I’m running.”

All seven members of the council spoke in favor of keeping the current tradition.

“If they don’t like it, they can vote us out,” Marley said.

Fat chance that that will happen in Arizona! Notice the Mayor’s defiance of the law. But the FFRF is on this one, and they’re tenacious.

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Mayor Chris Marley, lawbreaker

 

96 thoughts on “Rabbi thrown out of Arizona city council meeting after objecting to Jesus prayer”

  1. I don’t know if the universe is a higher power, but it does have a bigger influence on my life than God. Who ranks these things anyway, and on what basis?

  2. What strikes me is the pointlessness of it all. What, exactly, does anyone think the higher power is doing as a result of these prayers?

    1. Precisely. Though clearly the town council feels like the invocation/prayer helps or else they wouldn’t bother. Now, why they think this helps is one of the big moral emergencies of our time.

      Carl Kruse

      1. I doubt if they really think it helps. Seems to me the motives are to be seen as one of the tribe and/or to posture as “at least as holy* as thou.”

        * read “sanctimonious”

        1. Sometimes it’s an odd kind of self-reinforcing loop. If no one pushed back they might not actually even care if it just faded away. But when someone pushes back that triggers their “must not deny Jesus” reaction (“whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven”). The pushback makes it, in their minds, a test of their faith instead of just the pro forma thing it would be to them otherwise.

    1. Incredibly easy and soooo, so worth it:
      thus = http://www.ffrf.org/get-involved/buy-a-gift-membership

      Blue

      ps Whenever the seemingly faith – deranged, k tippett – like npr – (h)ucksters (of whom, locally now, Iowa appears to have far too many !) come onto the air waves hustling for my $, I satisfy my urge to flail them something by flinging my so hard – earned $ on over, instead, to m’neighbors: the fearless, relentless and so, so always.always busy FFRF attorneys of Madison, Wisconsin.

    2. Oh yes! I love it when the Satanists show up. They have bad ass costumes with hoods and capes and it just annoys all the faith-y.

          1. Oh wow. The Satanists look great. Outfits much more creative and interesting than say Catholic regalia. Thanks for sharing the photo.

            Carl Kruse

          2. Wonderful! This approach, which is more direct and confrontational than, say, the methods of FFRF, is a welcome and effective alternative. It also happens to be very entertaining.

      2. Are they really Satanists or do they just love shitstirring?

        (I’m not being derogatory, I’m all in favour of stirring as much shit as possible)

        cr

          1. OK, I read the FAQ.
            ‘How are you different from humanists?’
            (My conclusion: Not much)

            I could belong to that without any mental pain whatever. But, to quote Oscar Wilde*, I refuse to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

            (*I know Oscar Wilde didn’t say it, but he should have).

            cr

          2. I agree with your assessment. The point, though, is that TST wraps it all in an explicitly religious framework, and therefore has a better standing to turn the tools such as “religious freedom laws” upside down, and use them to promote actual religious freedom.

            Here’s another example of where they’re going with it:

            http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/05/01/3653655/satanic-temple-abortion-waiting-period/

            Basically they’re claiming that, since bodily autonomy is their religious doctrine, state-level “religious freedom” laws override “informed abortion” (i.e. mandatory counseling and waiting periods) laws on that matter, as a matter of their freedom of religion. The end goal, obviously, is to get the state to throw out either of the two laws. But it’s not something that bona fide humanists could do – at least not in this manner.

  5. I give thanks to dark energy and to the strong nuclear force. May the first forever guide our universe ever outward, and may the second keep all of us from blowing up into tiny bits.

  6. The mayor announces that the prayer reflects his belief only, but that he will publicly offer it in order to “unite the lawmakers…to act in the best interests of the town.”

    If it’s his personal prayer, why would it “unite” everyone else? Ignorance, chutzpah, and a good dash of hypocrisy.

    1. I know right! “Religion is a personal matter independent of the function of government” he says, before making a prayer AT A GOVERNMENT MEETING. WTF dude, you can’t have it both ways!

  7. if scotus shifts to the left with scalia gone there may be a more decisive move to check christian/religious privilege.

  8. I don’t get it! These people are elected to do work, and nevertheless some of them insist to pray at a time in which they have a session. To me, they are no better than those Muslim factory workers who insisted that the production regimen should be re-designed to fit their prayer schedule.

    I’d offer a compromise, short prayer formula:
    May the Force be with you!

    1. Elected to work? Maybe. But elected for reasons other than their ability to be liked, sometimes for religious reasons.

    2. Folks, we’re all preaching to the choir here, so to speak :)and it’s good, huddled around our enlightened fire, staying warm, lifted by kindred spirits.

      But let’s also help those directly taking on the forces of wackiness.

      Support the FFRF, and other secular groups by sending them a donation.

      They are not by the fire with us but in the trenches, fighting the good fight.

      Carl Kruse

    2. I have to admit I wondered what had happened to you Ben. You used to be fighting it out with the resident toilet roll flipper for number of comments.

      1. Why does everyone refer to me as either “that Canadian” or “toilet roll flipper” in reference to Ben….you know Ben and I are in cahoots don’t you?

  10. If the mayor meant what he said, he would have invited the rabbi to give the prayer, or just kept by his word.

    The whole point of the First Amendment is to curtail those who want to say it’s Yahweh or the highway, you’re with Jesus or you’re grievous, you’re with Christ or you’re sliced.

    2. I suspect he’s had the hard word put on him by his ultra-religious constituents who didn’t like the stance he’d taken. I think he was given the prayer preamble and told it was a way to get around the law, and he’d get Special Jesus Points into the bargain.

      1. You’ve got to be a special type of idiot if you’re the mayor and you’re getting your Constitutional legal advice from local church busybodies. Grossly negligent incompetence only barely begins to describe that sort of thing.

        One wonders. Were he the CEO of a petroleum company, would he order maidens be sacrificed to the volcano god in order to boost wellhead pressure?

        b&

        >

        1. Lol.

          If he was a CEO of course, his position wouldn’t be dependent on all the voters who will think how wonderful he is for standing up for Jesus against that atheist Muslim upstart Obama.

          But you’re right. The important thing should be his ability to do his job, which I assume they also want him to do on Sundays, in opposition to Biblical instructions.

      2. It was ironic to me that the preamble took much longer than the prayer (and was of course directly contradicted by it, starting most obviously with the ostracizing ‘stand’ call).

        1. Yes! The “stand” thing is pure Presbyterianism too – they stand to separate themselves from those corrupt, idol-worshipping papists.

  11. I am reminded of

    “White man came, across the sea, he brought us pain and misery.”

    If only the non-neglible Native population of AZ could stand up against the injustice brought upon them for almost having their entire culture wiped clean by the disgusting self-appointed privilege of Christian pretentiousness.

  12. So sad to see Ben Goren reduced to the status of “sometime reader.” Like finding the once-famous referred to in their obit as merely a “pedestrian” or “motorist.” 🙂

      1. Well, it’s nice to have you back, if only for this post. And to prove you’re not dead. 😉

          4. Good point – it is what I assumed after all. We just aren’t enough for you anymore. Sigh.

          5. Well…no offense to you and all the rest of the lovely ladies here at WEIT, but you’re simply not the most inspiring, wisest, most elegant, kindest, most beautiful woman in the world. I hope you can understand….

            b&

            >

          11. Ben,
            As a non-utero American I take offense that we as a group were not offered no offense and the implication that we aren’t the most inspiring, wisest, most elegant, kindest, most beautiful woman in the world. You shall be hearing from the SJWs for your insensitivity. However a safe space will be made available for you in case you are offended by our taking offense at your lack of offering no offense.
            More importantly, what has Baihu to say about your lack of undivided attention?

          12. Baihu unsurprisingly took his sweet time in coming to realize that Misa wasn’t going to eat him, but now he goes first to her when asking for dessert. And he’s getting almost his full share of ear rubs from her, too.

            b&

            >

    2. I want you all to take a moment and realize that this is what it would be like if we were all immortal and Ben chose to die because he would find immortality “boring”.

      ^That all sounds weird but we’ve discussed this on WEIT before and I said it would be boring when Ben died. 😀

  13. “Rabbi Adele Plotkin started to complain. Marley warned she would be removed if she continued[.]”

    More evidence, as if any were needed, of what a thin veneer the “Judeo” part of “Judeo-Christian values” serves for the religious right. They strum three strings of noxiousness: closet anti-Semites at home, abettors of the reactionary rightwing in Israel, covetous of “the holy lands” as the locus for their paranoid eschatological fantasies.

    1. OMG that would have been a great thing to shout as she was ejected! You stole our god you Christian thieves! We’re chosen! I say we’re chosen! Splitters!

  14. I like the way this played out, if it ever ends up in court. First, the clown says that it’s his personal view and doesn’t represent the city or council, then he disallows anyone else to speak under punishment of expulsion…which means it was an official proclamation.

    My only regret is that these guys keep doing this for as long as they can and then eventually desist or change tactics. I’d prefer one warning and then a fine, lawsuit or (even better) jail time.

  16. One of the things I particularly dislike when public prayer is given during a government function (or indeed during any function) is the “invitation” to stand up for the prayer. For those who don’t “choose” to stand, it’s as awkward and intimidating as hell. You are immediately outed — and you are made small while being surrounded by a loud group chant. People look down and smirk.

    There is no reason to stand during the prayer, people often sit when grace is said at table. I suspect it’s done as a power move.

      1. Makes me think that they learned the lesson from “now let us bow our heads in prayer.” It’s very easy for the heathens to spot each other that way, and the religious can’t admit to noticing.

        b&

        >

      2. No, one problem with the “everyone stand up and look down on the heathens” move is that the atheists can’t find and recognize each other. Our view is blocked. As Ben points out, when they simply bow their heads and close their eyes we get to look around. As it is, the situation seems designed to humiliate and isolate us.

      1. Stand, then face away from the Mayor, and bow deeply, slowly, and repeatedly. If questioned, solemnly indicate you are demonstrating suitable reverence for the proceedings at hand. And if the Mayor has a problem with you waving your backside at him…well, said backside is already being presented in a manner perfectly suited for being kissed.

        b&

        >

  17. When public comments are allowed, I’d stand and in the manner of a comment make my own prayer.

    “Regarding the issue of snow plowing, I’d like to say that our Lord and Savior, Satan, is owed our gratitude for making the mayor pray, even though he isn’t supposed to, in order to turn our attention to you, oh Dark One…”

  18. So you know how sometimes people post videos of copyrighted music on YouTube, and in the description, add something like:

    “THIS VIDEO IS NOT COPYRIGHTED BY ME!!! I’m just sharing it because it’s good music.”

    And think that it will prevent it from being removed for copyright infringement if the owner requests that.

    That’s what these guys reminded me of.

    “This is a council meeting and I’m the mayor, but, uh, this is just my personal opinion here, nothing more.”

    They’ll probably have about as much success with their disclaimers, too.

    Écrasez l’infâme.

    1. Now you mention it, what it reminds me most of is those people who used to post really inflammatory and offensive comments on whatever topic, and then end it up with “Just sayin'”

      As if that somehow absolved them from responsibility for the shit they’d just thrown.

      cr

      (Hmmm, last time I saw a 19H I don’t think it was a happy occasion… 😉

  19. “I’d like all of us to take a moment to bow our heads and acknowledge the power that brought us such success… the Power of Positive Thinking!”

  21. I guess hating Jews is still a top sport. I couldn’t imagine something like this in Az 35 years ago but the place seems to be infested with whackaloons these days. It’s sad how little people seem to know of the nation’s basic laws and how they prefer to believe some lunatic christian alternate history. I guess it was a sure sign of trouble when Barry Goldwater started to look sensible and progressive when compared to his counterparts in the state senate.

    1. But was the rabbi thrown out for being Jewish, or for telling them they couldn’t pray to *their* god in ‘their’ council meeting?

      Seems to me the second would be more than enough explanation. I’d suspect someone of unimpeachable aryan-ness (is that a word?) doing the same thing would get the same treatment.

      cr

  22. Can they not see in their Religious Mania how like other Fundamentalist Communities they are ? especially the Middle East,and whats this Daily Pledge about ? If I started going on about Pledging my allegiance to the Union Jack they’d put me away.

    1. I’d be insulted and offended (oooh! Offence culture warning!) if someone asked me to pledge my loyalty to anything. Like they don’t trust me, constantly. It (whatever ‘it’ may be) gets my loyalty if it deserves it and I wish to give it, not because someone has extracted a Reichswehreid from me.

      cr

      1. I have a problem swearing allegiance to a piece of cloth. I’ll swear allegiance to the Constitution; it’s an imperfect document, sure, but excellent and a very workable compromise. But a piece of cloth? What on Earth does it even mean to swear allegiance to a piece of cloth? That I’ll blindly do whatever the person waving it says I should do?

        b&

        >

        1. I think it means that you promise to wash it regularly, dry it, iron if necessary, sew up any rips…that sort of thing…And you swear to follow the laundry instructions on the sewn-in tag…

          1. [reading] mumble wash… mumble laundry tag … dum .. dum .. Omigods! (rushes out into the night – 10p.m. here – to retrieve the sheets I washed today from the clothesline. Fortunately there’s no heavy dew so they’re not too damp. So I can sleep in a bed tonight. She Who Must Be Obeyed and does the laundry is in Christchurch with our daughter, so things around here are getting done – when they need doing. Sorta)

            Thank you for the reminder!

            cr

          2. …and, by a weird case of serendipity, just as I was reading your note, the buzzer sounded on the wash that Misa put in the laundry as I was making breakfast….

            b&

            >

          3. You(r) two gents’ domesticity puts mine to shame. 😳

            (Had a rough time with the pronoun, there…)

  23. glad to see this, albeit belatedly. The Mayor then is a Baptist minister. After letters from various organizations and advice from their lawyer, they stopped the public invocations and decided to bless themselves privately before the public meeting in a small room to which the public was invited to hear their prayer. Marley was not re-elected. NOTE: the federal law says that elected officials may not show preference nor promote a religion or group of religions in the government setting. no disclaimer can abrogate that. hope your good work is still ongoing.
    Rabbi Adele

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