Dave Allen on Catholicism

March 17, 2013 • 4:02 am

Reader Aidan Karley called my attention to the Irish comedian Dave Allen (1936-2005; real name David Tynan O’Mahoney). He seems to be a forerunner of Dara O’Briain, sans the profanity.

Here’s Allen recalling his initiation to Catholicism at the age of four. It’s hilarious, but the hilarity comes largely from his befuddled encounter with religious “truth”. I’m sure this will ring true for many Catholics.

I’m surprised that Allen got away with taking the mickey out of Catholicism in the UK of the 60s and 70s, but perhaps criticism of religion was more tolerated then.

Wikpedia says this about Allen’s religious beliefs:

He was a religious skeptic (according to Allen himself, “what you might call a practising atheist”, and often joked “I’m an atheist, thank God”) as a result of his deeply held objections to the rigidity of his strict Catholic schooling. Consequently, religion became an important subject for his humour, especially the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of England, generally mocking church customs and rituals rather than beliefs. In 1998 he stated “The hierarchy of everything in my life has always bothered me. I’m bothered by power. People, whoever they might be, whether it’s the government, or the policeman in the uniform, or the man on the door – they still irk me a bit. From school, from the first nun that belted me— people used to think of the nice sweet little ladies … they used to knock the fuck out of you, in the most cruel way that they could. They’d find bits of your body that were vulnerable to intense pain—grabbing you by the ear, or by the nose, and lift you, and say ‘Don’t cry!’ It’s very hard not to cry. I mean, not from emotion, but pain. The priests were the same. And I sit and watch politicians with great cynicism, total cynicism.”

83 thoughts on “Dave Allen on Catholicism”

  1. Ask anyone who went to a school with a mix of lay teachers and nuns / priests who the most sadistic ones were. Always the same answer. For decades, priests and nuns who had opted for celibacy got their sexual kicks by hurting children. Thank God the public has woken up to the scandal at last …

    1. For decades, priests and nuns who had opted for celibacy got their sexual kicks by hurting children.

      Reinforced by a theology that said that children are evil sinners who can only be redeemed by suffering.

      PS Dara O’Briain, not Dara O’Briann

    2. My mother, in 1940’s UK, went to a Catholic school. One particular nun used to hit kids across the knuckles with the heavy 3″ wooden cross on her rosary chain. My mother and friend hid behind a door, thinking they’d not been seen, and this same nun pressed the door hard and pinned them behind it, against the old large hot heating pipes burning their legs until they blistered. … loads of stories like this.

    3. Not decades, centuries at least, probably millennia. The Vatican tries to blame the sexual enlightenment of the 60s for child abuse in the Catholic church, but nothing really changed then for priests and nuns. I see no reason to suppose they have not been abusing children whenever they had they had the chance since the beginning of the church. I read a document which contained a reference to child sex abuse, banning it, which was written in about the 9th century or even earlier, IRRC, but there’s so much stuff about the modern wave of child rape on the web, that I can’t find it.

    4. Anecdotal, but that was certainly the case at St Helen’s Roman Catholic Primary School in London, E13 in the late 60s/early 70s. Sister Frances would laugh at kids who leaned back on their chair too far and fell over, banging their head. Sister Benedict was very handy with the bamboo cane. Sister Scholastica was OK but got done for shop lifting. Kindest was Miss Bell, a middle-aged lay teacher, who brought my best friend and me back home to Stratford when we somewhat misguidedly followed her on the bus all the way out to Romford (we were eight – God knows what we were thinking!) That said, what I know about the Catholic church now makes me much angrier than any petty tyranny I experienced when my education was entrusted to it.

      As for Dave Allen, yes he was great! It was a real treat to be allowed to stay up and watch his show. I seem to remember he did get a little more profane in later years, but nothing to compare with the sweariness on British TV nowadays.

    5. Paul,

      You are ABSOLUTELY correct! I had many experiences – primarily with Catholic nuns.

      There was something about their wicked nature, that even as a child, I knew it was wrong. I couldn’t understand why a person who was following Jesus could be so mean, especially toward children. Now, as an adult, I can see the “emptiness” and the sheer loathing they had for themselves.

      The pain and hurt these vile individuals inflicted upon others should NOT go unpunished, nor should it be forgotten. They were/are cruel.

  2. He was very popular in the seventies, had his own show. If you search YouTube you’ll probably find a few of his sketches, which were usually also religion-themed. His famous valediction was always “May your god go with you.”

    1. I had forgotten that Allen-ism.
      It was moderately controversial at the time, as I recall (being a youth at the time and only starting to become politically aware) ; for the ruling clergy in his home country, the very concept that different individuals might have different opinions about “God” than others was deeply disturbing.

  3. “but perhaps criticism of religion was more tolerated then”

    The Catholic Church has learned that such gentle criticism doesn’t hurt them. It’s talk of child abuse and the Church’s collaboration with dictators that worries them, and I don’t remember any talk of that sort in the media of the 60’s and 70’s.

  4. Dave Allen was a permanent fixture on UK TV in prime time for years. This was at a time when there were only 3 or 4 channels to choose from. His show was watched by millions.

    He was, and is, a treasure.

      1. I remember when I was a kid and Allen was a permanent fixture on Friday nights on the ABC. Happy days.

  5. Dave’s stories are what showed that religion is absurd. Now that I’m older I also see religion as dangerous and events Dave describes explain why.

  6. I grew up loving Dave Allen. He was wonderful when I spent time again in the UK as a mother of two young children I made sure they got to know him. No-one that I recall in the UK appeared offended by his comedy.

  7. In the eighties I used to watch Dave Allen and then Monty Python, not because I really wanted to, but because they were on before Dr Who. Later on I began to love them. Dave Allen really helped me question my faith. Last day in church was my confirmation, which I was forced to go to.

  8. I have fond memories of watching his show as an early teen in the 70s. He had a very individual style – long, often quite convoluted monologues rather than quick-fire jokes, usually delivered from a high swivel chair with a cigarette in one hand and a generously-filled glass of whisky by his side. Unthinkable to see that on TV now! And yes, his humour always drew deeply on his Irish background,but without falling into the stereotypes that made up most “Irish comedy” at the time.

    He was hugely popular at a time when, thanks to the Northern Irish “Troubles”, most people in the UK were not well-disposed to anything coming out of Ireland.

    1. According to Wikpedia,the “whisky” was a ruse:

      Allen’s act was typified by a relaxed, rueful and intimate style; he would sit on a high bar stool facing his audience, smoking and occasionally sipping from a glass of what he always allowed people to assume was whisky, but in fact was merely ginger ale with ice.

      1. I stand corrected! I learn something new every day. Oh well, he was great anyway, with or without the aid of alcohol!

  9. “I’m surprised that Allen got away with taking the mickey out of Catholicism in the UK of the 60s and 70s, but perhaps criticism of religion was more tolerated then.”

    I don’t know about that. Jokes about religion have always been tolerated in the UK (at least since approximately the middle of the century), so far as I can tell.

    Dave Allen was fairly forthright in his criticism of things Catholic (although he couldn’t be called ‘shrill’).

    But if you’re looking for comedic criticism of religion you need look no further than Monty Python – the Spanish Inquisition (1970), Life of Brian (1979), and The Meaning of Life (1983) with it’s glorious ‘Oliver’-style musical number Every Sperm is Sacred which I just have to link here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

    I don’t think criticism of religion has eased up since.

    1. I liked the scene where the chap was chased off the cliff for making non-PC comments. 🙂

    2. But if you’re looking for comedic criticism of religion you need look no further than Monty Python – the Spanish Inquisition (1970), Life of Brian (1979),

      Oh, I do remember so well watching a Sunday evening “God slot” programme with John Cleese and Michael Palin being hoist, live, upon the petard of a purple-dressed god-squaddie (Bishop of Southwark, the London red-light district?), and simply turning around and completely tearing him to pieces. I almost felt a little sorry for the purple-clad buffoon because he was so obviously completely out of his league, but I must have tuned to the channel because from the advertising, I could sense that there was going to be blood dripping from the studio lights on this one.
      And I wasn’t disappointed! A veritable massacre!
      Then, the next night to see the whole thing repeated but with the tables turned by the Not the Nine O’Clock News team … I was literally rolling on the floor helpless with mirth.
      The NTNO’CN version is definitely up on Youtube, but I’ve never seen a version that gives it the context of being broadcast the night after the live skewering of the Bishop. Atkinson et al could have retired at that point, their reputations as giants of comedy utterly secure, but for some reason they’ve carried on for the thick end of thirty years trying to regain the heights they achieved during what must have been a frantic day of writing and filming.
      Sadly, the churches have learned to be a tiny bit more media savvy since then, and they tend to keep their dimmer and dottier bishops on a short leash, and avoid doing things like live debates. They might be idiots, but they’re not necessarily complete fools.

      1. The Sunday religious programme was actually a late night programme called Friday Night Saturday Morning that was guest hosted that week by Tim Rice. I caught that episode and it was superb TV. Plain and Cleese were ambushed by two Christians who seemed to know their arguments were rubbish – watch the extras on the Life of Brian DVD.

        1. Well … I was sure it was Sunday night. But they do tend to recycle these things. It was 30-odd (sometimes downright peculiar) years ago.

        1. Oh, I was planning to quote that line! That sketch is one of my very favorite NTNON ones, along with “A gorilla called Gerald.”

          2. While we’re digressing, may I mention ‘Who Dares Wins’, exemplified by this sketch with Tony Robinson as a clergyman gamely trying to find some redeeming quality in the deceased – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CAQMr2Yqfw

            It was Who Dares Wins, as I recall, that did ‘the Emperor’s New Clothes’ for real, ending with that same Tony Robinson standing stark naked on stage in front of the studio audience.

        1. … but coupled with the original public disembowelment? (Youtube is really, really slow here – I suspect the Admins shape traffic.)

        1. Ouch! Posted twice and one of them imbedded. I have no idea how I managed that. Apologies, Jerry.

  11. This was required watching in my house on a Saturday night, followed by being sent to Sunday school the next morning. I grew up preferring the jokes to the fire and brimstone and never once have I felt there is a god. Dave Allen taught me to be sceptical of all sorts of claims. I recommend that everyone digs deeper on YouTube to find more clips of this amiable assassin of authority.

    1. I spent a moderate amount of time searching for the “Adventures of a Stunt Pope” sketches, but couldn’t find them. Alas!

      1. Well, thanks for doing your homework on this one. It is a great St. Patrick’s day treat!

  12. “I’m surprised that Allen got away with taking the mickey out of Catholicism in the UK of the 60s and 70s, but perhaps criticism of religion was more tolerated then.”

    The UK is not the US and there has long been an undercurrent of distrust for Catholicism, due to events in the C16-17.

    1. The UK is not the US and there has long been an undercurrent of distrust for Catholicism, due to events in the C16-17.

      And C15, and C14 (Henry the Syphilitic was not the first British Monarch to have a run in with Rome). And C18 (the first Irish rebellions, though then the Republicans were (mostly) Protestant and the Loyalists were mostly Catholic. And C19 (more rebelliousness, but also cheap Catholic navvies offending the locals all over the country ; and as for their temerity at demanding emancipation!). And C20 (I remember being searched on entering the Museums for King Tut, and later my first encounter with the Blue Whale ; where are the TSA jokes when you need them?)
      What was that Hitchism? “Religion poisons absolutely everything.”

  13. We used to watch the Dave Allen show on the telly in Australia as kids in the early 70’s. He was on every Fiday night. Very funny man.

  14. Never forget the sketch where he played a white Anglican clergyman who entered a whites only church and saw a black man on his knees.
    “What YOU’re doing here?”, he thundered.
    “I’m cleaning here.” answered the black man.
    “Oh, then it’s OK.”

  15. Good, no punches pulled satire was ubiquitous in the UK in the 60’s, 70’s & into the 80’s. viz.- “That was the Week that was” (TW3), “Not only but also”, “Monty Python”, all of Peter Cook (the best spotter of bullshit from a 1000 paces) and Spitting Image. Somewhere during the Thatcher years the fire went out.
    BTW, is this the most irreverent piece of religious satire ever recorded? Cook and Dudley Moore (aka Derek and Clive) on the death of John Paul I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&V=RPcDREaxsu8

        1. Though interestingly, in his memoir, David Mitchell lays into atheists just as much as he does the religious. He describes himself as an agnostic, blettch.

  16. I’d forgotten about Dave Allen. He had a TV show which PBS in Chicago ran Saturday evenings when I was a kid.

    The back and forth in his story here suddenly made me think what a great Abbott & Costello routine this would be, with Abbott as a Priest trying to explain God to Costello.

  17. Too right criticism and humour of religious belief, in fact everything for that matter, was tolerated more in the 60’s and 70’s. In many respects we’ve gone backwards in the UK, in no small part to the cultural relativistic mindset of the uber liberal left.

      1. Right on one count but not the other and I certainly don’t have any objection to jokes aimed at either women or gays. If there is a pervading British mentality it is that anything and everything is up for mockery, ridicule and humour.

    2. “Too right criticism and humour of religious belief, in fact everything for that matter, was tolerated more in the 60′s and 70′s.”

      This is simply not true.

  18. Also, don’t forget that this was a time when nothing was sacred from humour, sometimes quite hurtful or hateful humour. Humour about other races, women (plenty of mother in law jokes were around back then), sex, sexuality, skin colour, disability etc. To get a feel of what the pervading humour of the time was like in the UK, google some of these names and watch some YouTube clips of them: Bernard Manning, Mike Read, Charlie Williams, Chubby Brown (more the 80’s), John Inman and Mollie Sugden talking about her pussy (both in ‘Are You Being Served?’), Larry Grayson, Ivor Biggun (again more 80’s), Frank Carson, Jim Davidson, John Cleese in ‘Fawlty Towers’, Warren Mitchell in ‘In Sickness and In Health’ and ‘Till Death Do Us Part’ and many more that I can’t think of at the moment.
    I’m not linking to any of them because some of your readers, mainly in the US I would imagine, would find some of the humour highly offensive and yet most of the people I’ve named above were on prime time family TV in the 70’s.

    1. You’re right that some of the humour back then would offend our 21st century sensibilities, but it isn’t the case that “nothing was sacred from humour”. They had more taboos than we do now, but they were different ones.

        1. You mean one taboo? OK – Dave Allen would not have been able to imply that Catholic priests were having anal sex with young boys. Today’s comedians can.

          1. I’m sure he would if they’d have known of the scale of the abuse back then so you’re making nothing more than a moot point.

      2. Agree with PD on this one. There was very much an element of innuendo in the humour of that time of the type made popular by the carry on series and looking back further at those seaside “naughty” postcards. Some of the more explicit sketches of recent times would not have been acceptable on TV.

        1. What a lot of people don’t get is that the innuendo is what makes things so funny. It’s the “private joke” aspect of innuendo (i.e., getting the joke because it is not obvious) that makes it so much more funny.

          The explicit stuff isn’t usually as funny.

          Or maaybe I prefer cerebral humor.

          1. I agree that cerebral humour creates a nice rapport between comedian and audience, but I don’t think innuendo is particularly cerebral – not most of the time, and certainly not during its heyday in the 60s and 70s. Isn’t it obvious that this was an era of innuendo-based humour precisely because there were so many taboos at the time?

          2. Actually, I don’t think it’s obvious, and maybe not true, either.

            The US TV show Frasier was extremely popular because of the plays on words and innuendo (at least I think that’s what you would call it), and that went on for 11 yrs. in the 1990s–a more liberal time than the 60s and 70s. I think that Frasier was popular in many countries.

            Well, I’m no expert either way. And I do have a rather delicate disposition when it comes to humor vs. vulgarity. I can tell you that I greatly enjoyed Dave Allen in the states when it was regularly aired there, and I was only in high school at the time. I am delighted today to be reminded of him and to be able to peruse his works on YouTube.

          3. I love Frasier but I don’t think innuendo is a big part of its appeal. It looks like we’re using the term in slightly different ways.

    2. Molly Sugden had some great lines in Are You Being Served? I remember once, when beckoned to come over by Captain Peacock, she remarked frostily: “I don’t respond to any man’s finger.”

      1. Mrs Slocome’s pussy was so much funnier at the time when “cat” was the meaning that had a far greater currency. It’s not so much of a double entendre nowadays.

        /@

        1. As a point of interest, I think the alternative use of the term “pussy” may have originated from Lytton Strachey’s Ermintrude & Esmeralda, which was published sometime in the 20s I guess. He gave a new meaning to “bow-wows” and “pussy cats” for the time. Maybe he got away with it, unlike Lawrence with “Lady Chatterly’s Lover” (which was banned), because of the innuendo – not that it was exactly subtle.

  19. I “discovered” Dave Allen when I lived in the UK in the 70’s.

    One of my favorite jokes that I recount to this day is the Parrot and the Postman.

    I laugh just thinking about it. Don’t know if it’s been immortalized on YouTube.

  20. I think there was more solidarity among people and respect for different opinions back then. Hilarious. Thanks

  24. There was no real controversy in mocking religion in the seventies. The lack of regard for religion goes back to the sixties. Well, that’s as far back as I remember. I think the BBC was widely viewed in parts of the Republic of Ireland. Perhaps Dave started to loosen the stifling grip that catholicism had on the Irish people. They’ve gone from total religious domination to something more akin to the northern European model.

  25. We grew up in Australia with Dave Allen on the tele, and it was accepted by all as a fair go at an institution, however that was Australia, not the US.

    Ireland is still in the grip of the church – a woman died because she couldn’t get an abortion only months ago!

  26. My parents were staunch Catholics, yet Dave Allen was my mother’s favourite. She used to howl at his shows.

    Nobody likes jokes about Priests, and the Catholic Church more than Catholics themselves.

    Allen was never a controversial figure in the UK and Ireland.

    1. Except when he (accidentaly?) used the “F” word. This led to many complaints from viewers and even questions in the House of Commons. On a later show Allen said that perhaps he should find out where Salman Rushdie was hiding and go to join him.

  29. “Reader Aidan Karley called my attention to the Irish comedian Dave Allen (1936-2005; real name David Tynan O’Mahoney).”

    You mean you didn’t know him before? Didn’t you watch him on PBS back in the 1980s? Or did you watch just Nova?

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