Trump’s personal physician said he’s doing quite well, but other sources aren’t nearly that optimistic. This is from the New York Times (click on screenshots):
Historically, I believe, Presidents’ personal physicians tend to downplay the severity of their illnesses, so perhaps that “person familiar with his health” is giving us more reliable information. As the NYT reports:
President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.
While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.
Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”
Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.
Dr. Sean P. Conley, the White House physician, told reporters outside Walter Reed that the president was not currently on supplemental oxygen on Saturday but repeatedly declined to say definitively whether he had ever been on oxygen. “None at this moment and yesterday with the team, while we were all here, he was not on oxygen,” he said, seeming to suggest that there was a period on Friday when he was.
Trump has two factors that make his risk higher: he’s older and he’s fat. He did walk from the helicopter that landed at Walter Reed to a car, but why did they use a helicopter from the White House when the distance to Walter Reed is so small? Is that standard procedure, or did they have to get him to Walter Reed quickly?
Well, we’ll know soon enough what happens, but given that the Walter Reed doctors are tight-lipped, I doubt that we’ll hear much more until he either starts recovering or starts failing. And if he dies (that would have to be within a month), what happens to the election?
Watch the movie Death of Stalin if you want to see what will happen next
Or maybe Weekend at Bernie’s.
Since it’s Trump, there can never be any certainty that we are being told the truth. Based on past circumstances, the odds are much greater than 50% that we are hearing lies.
I think this is so embarrassing to him that there is no way he would fake it.
Mr. Jost, this is exactly my stance on the speculation that he’s not really sick. Faking having the virus would make his repeated assertions that the virus will disappear and his mocking Biden’s use of a mask look ridiculous.
Given the bungling on statements about the timing of the progression of Trump’s illness, it seems far more likely to me that Trump’s hope was he could cover up his getting sick.
Embarrassing? Not to Trump, who has a penchant for the grand spectacle and does love “his” military.
Postponing the election until we make sure there’s no ballot fraud? Not leaving if he loses? You think Pence or Mitch will dare a coup if he (really is) sick?
Short of outright dying, he can spin anything to his advantage.
We’re already hearing conflicting stories. At the official doctors presser they made out that things were not so bad. Then right after, some reporter said that an unnamed WH source had painted a much darker picture where things would come to a head in the next 48 hours. Then some expert who had not examined Trump said that the crucial point would be reached in 5 days (not sure when that started) when they would see if inflammation set into his lungs. It’s the inflammation that causes most of the deaths. Of course, Trump is also at risk of heart attacks and strokes and whatever other ailments he suffers from.
It is somewhat similar to what happened with Boris Johnson. We were given bulletins saying he was doing fine, responding to treatment, in good spirits, working from the hospital etc right up to the moment that we were informed he was the ICU being given oxygen.
I think what is happening is SOP. You say the boss man is fine right up until the moment you can’t deny he is not fine any longer.
Absolutely. Trump undoubtedly wants to get back to the debating stage and campaign as soon as possible. Those voters won’t suppress themselves! Plus, he has to give orders to the Proud Boys. For all these reasons, he wants to minimize the severity of the disease in the eyes of the voters.
You’d think he would give up since his sickness is going to draw attention to his terrible response to the pandemic. I just don’t think he can stomach losing no matter what the cause.
Of course, there has to be a level of illness severity where survival takes precedence over winning the election.
Among the variables on the table is the fact that this is not April or May, where procedures for handling an aggressive form of this infection were pretty naive. Doctors know more now. Treatments should be better now, one would think.
I wonder if it’s dawned on him yet that he is in a Military Hospital staffed primarily by losers and suckers?
To whom he tries desperately not to contribute anything in the way of taxes.
No, silly, it’s only the dead ones that are losers and suckers.
I wonder if they found bone spurs when examining him. Sorry, that was not appropriate right now.
Oh, yes it was.
Regardless of whether it was inappropriate, I’d like to know the answer.
I had noticed early that covid-19, in its severe/mortal case, seemed to be a disease of the old and the fat and the fat and the old. And of men. Like me!
(BTW, progressive friends really got upset with me for making the fat/old connection instead of saying that it was a disease of minorities. Sigh.)
The racial angle just didn’t seem to fit very well.
It will truly be extraordinary if he succumbs to this…..what an ending.
Melania will likely survive.
Then would commence the death-cage probate battle between Melania and the Trump progeny, led by Ivanka, over the Donald’s estate (which, for all we know, may be full of naught but red ink).
What would become of all that debt? I assume all assets go to the creditors, but what happens to residual debt?
His assets, like the golf courses would be sold off to pay part/all of the debt. The rest – oh well.
It would take a probate lawyer to give a definitive answer, but I think that (once the widow gets certain minimum benefits, to cover the cost of burial, etc.) the creditors get first bite at the estate’s assets and, if those assets are eaten up, any remaining debt would be just more of Trump’s bad business flowing below the bridge out to sea. I don’t believe a decedent’s beneficiaries/heirs can be held personally liable unless they’ve cosigned for the debt on the line that is dotted.
Would someone think of the golden toilet? Who, oh who, shall inherit the golden toilet?!
Might go to Barron.
Ohhh, I hadn’t thought of that. Good point. Months or decades of entertainment to come, when the Tangerine Shitgibbon flings his final turd. Which will happen one day, even if not in the near future.
Of course, we don’t know yet if it’ll be Ivanka or Don Jr in the Oval Throne Room at the time. That too, is going to be a fight to see. From a distance.
“…the death-cage probate battle between Melania, and the Trump progeny, led by Ivanka…”
Add Don Jr’s yelling girlfriend Kimberly, and, let’s not forget Jared, and you’ve got a “reality” series that would rival the Kardashians.
In the UK, at least, ethnic minorities are disproportionately affected.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-bame-patients
I’m guessing but at this stage I think you just end up with Pence, assuming the Trump/Pence ticket wins. It is too late to change any of that now. I don’t think we get an honest picture of his condition because being honest is not his thing.
I suppose Pence would then appoint a new VP. However I don’t think that is a requirement. We have had presidents die in the past with the VP taking over and they never filled the VP position.
The republican steering committee can name a replacement if Trump removes himself from the ticket or dies prior to the election. How that is handled on ballots is unclear, and there’s no precedent.
It can’t be handled because the election has already begun. Ballots are out and being cast in some areas. There is no “election day” this time.
I think you’re combining two things. Sitting POTUS’s have died in the past with no VP appointed since there was no Constitutional mechanism, until that was changed at some point after the Kennedy assassination.
I don’t recall a presidential candidate dying before the election, tho.
Closest thing was VP candidate being replaced before the election. (Eggelton replaced by Shriver as VP)
No candidate died before the election, but in 1872, Horace Greeley, who lost to U.S. Grant, died shortly after the election and before the electoral votes were counted. His 66 electoral votes were divided between four others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Greeley
That changed with section 2 of the 25th Amendment, ratified in 1965, which provides: “Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.”
This is why Gerald Ford nominated Nelson Rockefeller to be his VP after he succeeded Richard Nixon, following the latter’s 1974 resignation (whereas LBJ was without a veep between JFK’s November 1963 assassination and the January 1965 inauguration following the Johnson-Humphrey ticket’s 1964 election victory over the Republicans’ Goldwater-Miller ticket).
But, if Trump died, and Pence was also infected, and died before he was able to name a VP, then would Nancy Pelosi become President?
That is how I understand it, but it is very much a spectator sport from this side of the pond. (Life and death struggle though it may be on that side.)
I’m starting to understand how conflicted some of the audience were in the Colosseum, feeling something for the poor Christians, but also wanting to see the lions getting a good feed.
Correctamundo. She’s next in line of succession to the presidency behind the veep, per the Presidential Succession Act.
Is there not some question about the designation “officers”? Some legal “experts” argue that the term restricts the potential replacement to a member of the Administration. Pompeo?
Good thing you used scare quotes around “experts”.
Hey, those “experts” are on tRump’s shortlist for SCOTUS.
Yes, and according to wikipedia, Grassley would be third in the line of succession:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession
Below is the CDC COVID-19 age related risk for hospitalization and mortality. Trump is 74 yo, Biden 77.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html
If he dies, it might be very bad from a political point of view. I think it could embolden the rabid conspiracy theorists of QAnon and the like; I can already hear the claims that the Democrats poisoned him (just after the debate where, they’ll say, he destroyed Biden) and his team. Given how fraught US politics is at the moment, the last thing you need is a claim of political assassination. Far-fetched? Look around! This ship needs steadying. No, aside from any moral concerns, the best thing is for him to recover and be beaten fairly in November. Exorcise the demon properly, you know.
Also, if he dies, knowing QAnon, they’ll say he faked his death to go undercover and continue rooting out the Satanic paedophile ring.
Either way, they must be updating their theology since high-profile people testing positive for COVID was supposedly a cover for Trump having them arrested for their Satanic activities!
Again, I know this is all anyone can say now, but it’s still true: WHAT A YEAR!!!
Trump will die and then resurrect himself and declare that he’s Jesus returned.
Trump will
diebe said to have died and then he will pretend to resurrect himself and declare that he’s Jesus returned.FTFY
There already is at least one video posted on the internet of someone claiming the Dems put the virus on Trump’s microphone at the debate.
I hadn’t heard anything that specific but there’s quite a few that are thinking out loud that the sheer number of GOP politicians suddenly getting sick means it just has to be due to some sort of attack by the Dems.
So nice of so many Republicans to line up in one place last … was it Saturday? The event that is stimulating all the comparisons with Poe’s Masque of the Red Death.
Nothing to do with that shindig for Amy thingy, the new supreme court justice.
Just as an aside, the BBC showed a clip from that event of Kellyanne Conway in conversation with William Barr. She has got COVID19, so maybe he has too. It’s shameful, but it would make me quite happy if Barr did get.
*potential new supreme court justice.
+1 on Barr getting it.
Whaddaya gonna do? Crazies gonna crazy. The right-wing fringe is still fulla 911-truthers, Birthers, anti-vaxxers, and people convinced that Hillary Clinton and John Podesta were running a pedo ring out of the non-existent basement of the Comet Ping-Pong pizzeria.
Only thing to do about such loonies is pay ’em no nevermind.
The QAnon dudes are claiming that Trump doesn’t actually have the virus but has gone undercover to catch Hillary for the whole dumbass pizzagate paedophile ring conspiracy. Apparently the clue was in the Tweet the Donald put out saying he and Melania had tested positive but that they would “get through this TOGETHER”, which is interpreted by the tinfoil hat brigade as “TO GET HER”. You couldn’t make this stuff up, except they just did. https://www.vice.com/en/article/akzx3g/qanon-believers-think-trump-got-covid-on-purpose-because-of-course-they-do
“Trump” and “undercover” in the same sentence. I may have very little respect for the Tangerine Shitgibbon, but he does have a degree of consistency in his behaviour, and that includes a liking for trumpet parades and the public eye which is rather incompatible with “going undercover”.
Mind you, we are talking about what QAnon and the like believe, so rational analysis isn’t exactly in the top drawer of techniques they can be expected to apply.
They will probably deify him or say he’s like L Rom Hubbard & has shed his mortal coil to enter the next phase of existence. Or maybe it will be like Elvis with rumours of occasional sightings in mundane locations like gas stations & Burger Kings.
As I said yesterday, Trump is probably much sicker than reported. Trump would never skip a rally, even knowing that he had Covid 19, unless he was physically unable. He doesn’t give a damn about anyone else, so he would seek affirmation from his crazed followers even if he infected them.
He held a bib fundraiser where the unmasked took selfies with him and interacted maskless, of course, when he knew he had been exposed. That tells you everything about his regard for others & makes total sense when you accept his sociopathy.
+2
There is such a lack of credibility and transparency with Trump and his administration that we are wise to be skeptical. With the alarming number of positive test results in Trump’s orbit it really looks like the superspreader is POTUS himself. Chris Christie has now tested positive, and the timeline is such that Biden was likely exposed. As for the president’s recovery, he at least will benefit from several months of treatment experience.
“Madam Doctor, is this catheter really necessaaaaaaaarrrrrrarrrrghhh?”
The NYT had a good piece on the scenarios should he die or be incapacitated. In short, if it happens before the election, Pence becomes either permanent or acting President. However, if for whatever reason he can’t run, it becomes “a mess”. Bottom line is that our presidential election is actually 50 state elections, so even though the GOP has a mechanism to replace a candidate, each state would have to figure out how to proceed. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/us/politics/trump-succession-constitution.html
Only because it’s Trump, I can’t dismiss the possibility that it’s all fake, conjured up to jack up Regeneron. I tell ya, it’s a miracle.
Trump’s gotta make up for the loss he took going long on hydroxychloroquine.
The best case scenario is that Trump survives, but is incapacitated through the January power transition. This would prevent Pence from taking over and Trump from stirring up more hatred and division. If we don’t see lots of his very nasty tweets, it can be assumed that someone else is producing them.
If he was incapacitated Pence would take over until Inauguration.
So long as Trump first executed a voluntary designation under Section 3 of the 25th Amendment, OR VP Pence and a majority of the cabinet members submitted a declaration of Trump’s incapacity to the senate’s president pro tem (Chuck Grassley) and speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi under Section 4.
Of course. I’m assuming “incapacitated” in this context means really so, not just dance-aroundable temporary condition.
No reports from the white house can be relied on. These characters have lied so often or sais “x” followed up by “not x”, i cannot assign any truth value to any of their statements. Wishing or hoping that somebody is being truthful does not make it so. It’s a virus jake!…and can be a very messy one for people of any age. So we can only watch and see.
This is really a wait-and-see moment. Trying to read too much into subtle comments is not going to help my angst. I think the election will definitely go to Biden, and I think even if DT suddenly recovers from the virus, he won’t recover from his bigly loss of support.
I agree with your assessment, but Trump is making it miserable for us for decades with that SCOTUS pick and can do so much more damage between the election and inauguration, even if he loses by a landslide. Being the mentally diseased person that he is, he will maximize that damage.
The intended remedy, of course, is impeachment. That however was prevented by a rather bizarre situation in the Senate. But, no matter how severe and how obvious DT’s impairment, the GOP is willing to ignore it for another supreme court justice or some other juicy conservative treat.
There are, I think, four Senators (R) who are positive for the virus. Repubs could lose their majority by attrition in a few weeks.
I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks for the positive note.
It is the only chance of preventing Ms Barrett to be confirmed, I guess. Especially if the numbers increase a bit and their recovery is slow.
Typhoid tRump has more likely spread the virus and made others sick rather than getting sicker himself. A one man super spreader. More to come I bet.
‘Typhoid Trump’ is pretty good!
I doubt the big-buck donors who attended Trump’s fundraising soirée and cozy “roundtable” in Bedminster, NJ on Thursday were none too happy to find out that he traveled there AFTER learning that he had been exposed to at least one person (Hope Hicks) who had tested positive for COVID (in plain violation of the CDC guidelines that such a person should self-isolate).
Some of Trump’s cult would no doubt claim to be proud to have been infected by the President.
Yeah, the hoi-polloi at his rallies, maybe. Not the fat cats investing in him on the come for even bigger and better tax cuts.
They’re completely different breeds, those two.
Right. The rich bastards are worse than the cult in my opinion. They know better but are willing to sell out the country to get their low taxes even lower.
He’s a one man biological weapon.
Supplemental oxygen is sometimes used prophylactically. That means that if he had been on O2 in the White House it doesn’t necessarily mean he was sick at the time.
Silent hypoxia has been widely reported with COVID patients, and can exist even in the absence of any symptoms.
Yes, it can mean nearly nothing. If you are a patient with sleep apnea and you normally use a cpap machine, its routine for hospitals to just put you on a trickle of oxygen so you sleep very well overnight without so much apnea.
I initially thought the whole thing might have been cooked up, but I guess he’s really infected, and if he isn’t tweeting, he must must be rather sick. Beyond that, I assume every official statement is a lie, wish the media would report such statements as “officials stated…” rather than “Trump is…”
I’ve often thought the Trump presidency was like a Milgram experiment for his followers, only with the subjects giving the electric shocks to themselves. But now even the stooges are really getting shocks too.
Who knows WTF to believe from the Trump administration?
Skepticism as to everything said is the wages of so much mendacity.
No wonder so many people who attended the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme Court are testing positive: https://mobile.twitter.com/RebeccaBuck/status/1312222480073928704
Barrett herself, I believe, had COVID-19 over the summer. Makes Her Honor a test case, I suppose, for whether prior exposure confers immunity — a prerequisite for Trump’s overall plan (urged upon him by his new advisor, Fox News radiologist Dr. Scott Atlas) regarding herd “mentality.”
Based on the risk factors listed by the CDC, Trump ticks just a few boxes: he doesn’t have cancer as far as we know, he doesn’t have chronic kidney disease, he isn’t in a Immunocompromised state, he does not have Sickle cell disease, and (as far as we know) he does not have Type 2 diabetes – although given his age and weight – he is certainly a candidate. He may have serious heart conditions and he is clearly overweight. CDC makes no mention of lack of physical exercise, but we do know that age is a factor. So all we can do is guess at this point. I imagine the doctors are being cautious.
Health Canada authorizes with conditions the drug remdesivir (brand name Veklury) manufactured by for the treatment of patients with severe symptoms of COVID-19 who have pneumonia and require extra oxygen to help them breathe. It seems odd that he would be treated with remdesivir if he is not displaying these symptoms.
Thanks for that useful clarification. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the quacks were throwing everything at him in the hope that something sticks.
I must say, I feel conflicted about all this. Part of me would like to see Trump removed permanently from the political scene. But another part wants him to survive to be defeated fair and square, no question, no doubt.
There is an article in the (London) Times today, by their North American correspondent Henry Zeffman, reporting on a wargame carried out at Georgetown U, which suggests that any result other than a Biden landslide could result in widespread street-level violence and political crisis. Let’s hope they’re wrong.
As far was we know, Trump’s just a fat old man with a lousy diet and an aversion to exercise.
Then again, his personal and White House physicians haven’t exactly been fonts of credible information, even about the most obvious things. He’s 6’3″ and 239 pounds, my ass.
These figures give a BMI of 29.9. A value over 30 would make him obese. So, Eating 1 burger and fries would probably put him over the top. The best explanation for this coincidence is the Dr. Johnson is lying through his teeth.
Barack Obama is 6’1″ tall and in this photo Trump is the same height. Using 239 lbs, and 6’1″, this gives a BMI of 31.6, well into obese territory.
He forgot his elevator shoes that day.
Here’s a ‘splainer from the Election Law Bl*g, and an earlier one from FiveThirtyEight.
Short answer is, it would be a mess, with the Republican National Committee being called upon to name a substitute candidate (which, at this stage of the proceedings, I think we can safely assume would be Mike Pence). I don’t know what would happen to mail-in ballots already sent in and marked for Trump.
Doesn’t matter, I suppose, since, according to the Donald, Democrats have dumped all such ballots into unidentified rivers and creeks somewhere anyway.
A lot of commenters point out that Trump cannot be trusted. That’s true, but for once it seems irrelevant, because the health of a President is of geo-strategical importance and relevant in foreign affairs. The people who make statements about his health would do it in light of such concerns and regardless of who exactly is President.
Furthermore, while Trump can eschew traditions and ignore briefings, he does not possess the cognitive faculties or patience to come up with something that resembles a cunning plan, in the form of alternative procedures. He does not play 5D chess.
I can’t see him playing chess at all. Cheating at Monopoly is a different thing, though…
You’re right about the chess. He’s not capable of that. But I don’t trust the people around him to be honest about any of this either, regardless of geo-strategic matters.
The US government is not guided by honesty and never was in recent history. The overriding principle is national interest.
“The people around him” and “the US government” are not synonymous.
Overriding principals? Look no further than Moscow Mitch and his cohorts to throw that arcane notion out the fenster…the people who surround Trump are not interested in national interest, and they have no principals in the first place. That fact is vastly apparent by now, and it seems his cult isn’t interested in national interest either…at least not the non-fascist type. That is why they must go via the ballot. We’ll see if hope springs eternal.
Moscow Mitch and other Republicans likely believe that what‘s great for them, their sponsors and other elites is also great for the country. As big nations, Russia, the USA or China don‘t particularly care about “honesty” (if it can exist at that scale at all, they aren’t people), their national interest are also usually synonymous with those of the elites.
That’s probably the case anywhere, but elites in smaller nations are more embedded with the rest of society around them.
I’ve only just seen that the Trump team broke the agreement to be tested before the Presidential debate by turning up too late: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_outbreak_of_COVID-19#Presidential_debate
Trump’s stupid-rich family also broke the protocols established for the debate by refusing to don facemasks, even though they were offered them by a doctor from the debate’s cohost, Cleveland Clinic.
This is infuriating, because what is the point of making an agreement if one party agrees, then doesn’t comply? If no one has the power to cancel the debate in the case of non-compliance, then why have an “agreement”? At the very least, Trumps family who declined masks should been escorted out of the venue.
Symptoms of Covid-19 are variable and fluctuate so I think it’s difficult to speculate about the state of his health right now with any degree of certainty. People can be fine one day, think they’re ready to get up and run a mile; the next day they’re on a ventilator or have blood clots and die. People can be at death’s door and on a ventilator and bounce back to normal or near normal. I don’t know how many people his age or in his condition do in that regard.
History is rife with examples of discovered cures for disease which are delayed, ignored, or rejected because they do not serve the Establishment Narrative. British refusal to adopt citrus as a preventative/cure for scurvy comes to mind.
So, we have a million deaths from Covid-19.
There are two cures:
Ivermectin
hydroxychloroquine
They are safe, cheap, widely in use.
But these are politically incorrect. “Walter Reed” et al would not be caught dead with them against Covid.
I challenge the world: how many of the million would have not died had these two been administered.
And let’s not forget bleach! And the benefits of putting UV light inside the body somehow!
Simple – up his @$$
Isn’t that where the Base thinks it shines from?
Don’t forget bleach, the miracle cure for everything.
/S
None, of course. Only quacks call for them.
Hydroxychloroquine has been discredited as either treatment or cure. Ivermectin (an anti-parasitic!) has not been proven to work against Covid-19.
What’s your evidence?
Evidence? Doctors curing thousands of patients, at the risk of their licenses, with Hydroxychloroquine, with no deaths.
It has not been “discredited.” It simply has not been proven to cure by the Orthodox Medical Establishment to do so. Absence of proof is not evidence of its failure to cure.
If you or a loved one contracted Covid-19 with at-risk comorbidity and symptoms, would you refrain from obtaining Hydroxychloroquine?
Fauci says it has been discredited.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-53575964
“Orthodox Medical Establishment”
LOL
You sound like a parody of a tRump cultist!
We do have the word of Trump’s favorite witch doctor, Stella Immanuel, who also promotes the use of alien DNA and demon semen:
Can one order Demon Semen on Amazon? Asking for a friend.
I think it’s a service from a UK internet provider.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Internet
Ah, sadly deceased now.
Not yet but they are working on a prototype to extract something from several right-wing talk show hosts and then they will scale up production. Target manufacturing of a test product is January 2021.
😎
cr
Just saw a meme of Nurse Ratchet as Trump’s new night nurse😬
Donald Trump underwent a prophylactic regimen of hydroxychloroquine last May (or at least so he claimed). How’s that working out for him now?
Yes. It doesn’t work and the side-effects can be devastating.
What is the narrative that is causing the entire world’s population of doctors to withhold those two “cures”?
Ask them.
Would you provide links to the reliable, controlled studies that establish the efficacy of these “cures”?
There are no such clinical trials. Medicine refuses — or is forbidden — to do them. Why is it important for you to have such a trial in this instance?
If you or a loved one contracted Covid-19 with at-risk comorbidity and symptoms, would you refrain from obtaining Hydroxychloroquine?
Of course I would refrain from doing so, since actual clinical studies have not only failed to establish hydroxychloroquine’s efficacy in treating COVID-19, but shown that it leads to higher death rates.
Anyway, you claimed the two substances you identified were cures — not just “hey, whaddya got to lose?” — so link to evidence.
Otherwise, you’re just huffing swamp gas.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDiamondLynne1%2Fstatus%2F1291373943442604032&psig=AOvVaw3K_oWIQhAMWbREW_uIXWqp&ust=1601853014455000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCODU1NjFmewCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI
If your claim is correct, then surely I can’t trust the orthodox medical establishment (sorry for not capitalizing). Besides, don’t we already know the reason they would give for withholding those drugs: they claim they aren’t effective treatments. You claim that is false, that there is a different narrative, a sinister reason for smearing those drugs. Why can you not simply explain it here?
I don’t care about their claims of no evidence of cure. I don’t care about their reasons for withholding their imprimatur.
I only care about people cutting off Trump’s nose to spite his face. On a mass scale.
Hopefully, my little rebellion on this thread quietly prods even one person to put on a stock of Hydroxychloroquine, “just in case” the Authorities are wrongheaded about it.
I don’t think you understand that metaphor.
He must have meant it literally.
🥰🤣
I doubt your “rebellion” accomplished that, but it did get several people to ridicule your flawed reasoning that has no factual basis.
And Hydroxychloroquine has a “q” in it. That can’t be a coincidence, right? WWG1WGA
John… have you heard? Paul is dead!
(Not that Paul. The other Paul.)
This does not answer my question. I can see that you don’t care about “their reasons for withholding their imprimatur”. I asked you to state what you think the real reason for them withholding their imprimatur is; the “narrative” you mentioned in your first comment.
Oh. You are serious. I thought you were being serious.
So, out of all the world, out of all the labs, out of all the years of knowledge about viruses and their cures, you know the truth about this particular virus?
How?
All reports say that if it weren’t for the fact of having several viral vaccines in the pipeline for 10 years or more already, a vaccine would take that long, or eve take never.
‘Cures’ is a bold statement. Treatment perhaps.
Hepatitis C was ravaging livers everywhere until recently when after 20 years or more of research, an effective cure was found, but there is no vaccine yet.
Aids took ages to start treating well.
How could it be that there is a ready made ‘cure’ for a novel virus just sitting on shelves somewhere.
I know it is impolite, perhaps even callous to wish for bad things or death to happen to another person but I’d like to make an exception in Trump’s case and explain why. Not because of his politics or sexist or racist behavior. Not because of his overt attacks on our democratic institutions like freedom of the press or eroding the separations of powers or planning to subvert the will of the voters in the upcoming election. Not for conspiring with foreign powers against the US for which he was impeached or violating his oath to protect and defend The Constitution both of which could qualify as acts of treason. It is a simple utilitarianism calculus for me: his pathological narcissism and sociopathic lack of concern for others has resulted in 208,000 dead Americans and he continues undaunted with his COVID strategy to this day. Though the US is the #1 country in the world in resources and might and medical knowledge, we have THE worst death toll per capita. Ergo, Trump is THE worst leader in the world with respect to our COVID response and I have no doubt that he is responsible for 50-100K unnecessary US deaths. Out of respect for those unwitting dead victims and out of grave concern for the surely 100K+ innocents that are likely to die within the next year because of his knowing but unconscionable actions, he needs to go and COVID is a perfect solution.
When one thinks about the scale of 200,000 dead Americans relative to other US tragedies and national disasters we’ve faced: Viet Nam war casualties, Katrina, 9-11, or even a bad flu season, it isn’t even close. Trump is the biggest national disaster we’ve had since 1918.
I don’t wish him dead or to suffer but I must be honest, I don’t wish him well nor for a speedy recovery. I simply want him out of our politics quickly, by losing the election if possible or if he’s destined to win that, by losing to COVID then. I am not and would not advocate for political violence, only karma…that he get removed from office by his own doing. I even wish that he wouldn’t be able to get Regeneron’s coronavirus antibody treatment or Gilead’s remdesavir, he should be stuck with hydroxychloroquine, a ventilator, and hope. Curious that he isn’t taking hydroxychloroquine now, no?
PCC wrote in his earlier entry on Trump that online miscreants are wishing for his demise and that “decent people are wishing him a recovery”. Well, I would contend that it’s very decent to actually wish for Trump to go down whether by election loss or COVID if that’s what it takes, to prevent the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of innocent US citizens. Trump is the ultimate fat man blocking the tracks to prevent the speeding trolley from plowing through a massive crowd of people and I’m not even suggesting that someone push him over the railing to save those people…he jumped.
I don’t hope that he dies, but I do hope he suffers just enough to have a Scrooge-like epiphany and start encouraging his followers to wear masks. If a few days or weeks of his suffering can save perhaps a hundred thousand more lives, most of them far more innocent victims of the pandemic than Trump (who, in a sense, brought it on himself), I think that seems like a fair and decent thing to hope for.
That’s pretty much my position. I don’t want him to die or to get so incapacitated that the election becomes even more chaotic, but a little illness might do him good.
Were you to take that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion wouldn’t you wind up on the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository Building?
For what purpose? Perhaps to prevent the Vietnam war, I expect. But that would not have been prevented with Johnson replacing JFK.
That example was strictly rhetorical, Mark.
Um, no. Because I’m not advocating for murder, especially of a politician which I stated explicitly. I’m saying I don’t need to wish for his speedy recovery which would not be the murder of JFK using your flawed analogy, but more like him committing suicide.
Let me try your tactics: If you take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, wouldn’t you wind up hoping for Kim Jong Un’s speedy recovery so that he could guarantee a successful famine, killling thousands more this winter?
Maybe so, Jimbo. Which is why I’d be in complete solidarity with the people of the DPRK should they conduct a coup against Kim Jong-un, even if it involves his coldblooded assassination (which would in all likelihood be the only kind of North Korean coup that has a chance of succeeding).
After all, with Kim Jong-un, we’re talking about a guy who had his uncle executed by anti-aircraft gun firing squad, who had his half-brother, Kim Jong-nam, whacked in the
Kuala Lumpur airport, who starves his people to ensure his own comfort and to arm himself with nuclear weapons posing a threat to the civilized world, and who imprisons political dissidents in brutal forced-labor camps — in short, the most malign dictator on the face of the planet.
I see a clear distinction (especially when it comes to assassination) between Kim Jong-un and the president of the United States, even if Kim and the interloper currently occupying that office are “in love.”
Again, I’m not advocating for any assasination of anyone. I agree that there is a clear distinction between Trump and Kim Jong Un. All I’m saying is if either is suffering from health issues which may even jeopardize their lives, that’s likely a good development. I’m certainly not going to wish either leader good health like many in this chat have (for Trump) nor am I going to laud people as decent for wishing him well. I think that’s just posturing to appear sympathetic when true decency demands the moral courage to say someone like Trump should succumb to his illness if he intends on allowing others to die unnecessarily.
I have a better argument for you, Jimbo.
The violence which will come over America if Trump loses …
the Bible says (John 11:50) – although not by a man who thought positive of Jesus:
[…] it is better for you to have one man die for the people than to have the whole nation destroyed.
Sound reasoning, I’d say
+1
This was supposed to be a response to Lou Jost.
Here is another thought: When a foreigner comes to the US and attacks US citizens, he is called a terrorist. When our President knowingly spreads a deadly virus among US citizens, everybody wishes him well!
To mangle-quote President Nixon, “It’s not terrorism if the President does it.”
👍
I wonder if Al Quaeda will send him a ‘get well, keep up the good work’ card?
cr
So my youngest daughter has pointed out that each of the republicans left this week’s debate with a gift bag full of covid
If tRump is incapacitated I don’t they will only produce spin and lies as in the case of Wilson. Pence would not be able to push much in the way of awful legislation while tRump was alive, since this would reveal tRump’s condition. They are all afraid of tRump and his goon followers. tRump’s psychology and fear will determine what happens so long as he is alive.
With the exception of a possible COVID stimulus bill (which itself is far from assured), there’s no more chance of getting ANY legislation — with Trump dead OR alive — through what’s left of the 116th congress than there is of pushing a platter of Big Macs through Trump’s clogged and bloated gastrointestinal tract, wrappers and all.
Ewww
Oops! Take out the I don’t in 29 above.
Ideally,
1/ Mass Murderer donald remains alive and on the ballot, which he loses by a huge margin.
2/ Very quickly now, at least 4 or 5 Republican Senators actually do drop dead, completely scuppering any Supreme Court nomination before the election. I have not the least sympathy for any of them, except perhaps Romney, and very little there. There would be a great deal of irony there if they all had attended the celebration at the White Hose last Saturday.
3/ On Nov 4, Democrats take control of the Senate, retain control of the House.
4/ In the period between Nov 4 and Jan. 20, Republicans cannot somehow shove in replacements for those dead Senators, so now they really have lost the new seat on the Supreme Court. I don’t know whether that’s the case, and depends also on the unlikely 2/ anyway.
5/ If Mass Murderer donald does succumb, ideally he has suffering at least as bad as the worst of the many dead USians who would still be alive if virtually anyone else had been president.
6/ If he survives, he is successfully prosecuted on many of the crimes he has committed, and spends his remaining time in jail.
I’m not asking for much, am I?
A one hundred foot Jesus appeared and told Trump that Jesus would call him back to heaven if his followers did not donate $500 million in the next two weeks.
A mere hundred foot Jesus? Trump isn’t one for taking advice from subordinates.
Jesus Colossus.
NOW Twitter says that tweets saying you wish someone dies or comes to harm is against its terms and conditions. That’ll be news to a lot of people (JK Rowling?) who have been on the receiving end of death threats, I imagine.
The cartoon on the front page ofThe Sunday Times has a doctor saying “The president’s condition is unstable – so no change there”.
I would not expect any of the professional staff (doctors and nurses) at Walter Reed to give out personal health data on any patient, let alone the President. This is not like a WH administration leak; any doctor or nurse doing this is likely to lose their entire career, not just their current job. So I’m highly skeptical of any rumors.
I agree that the official pronouncement are likely to delay mention of (and sometimes downplay) bad news. However, I think even with that bias, it’s likely more credible and accurate than anonymous sources.
I think doctors are ethically allowed to release only so much information as has been authorized by the patient (viz., Donald Trump, in this instance). Hence, the doctor’s negative pregnant at the presser that Trump is not on supplemental oxygen TODAY (and refusal to say pointblank that he’s not been on it at all).
Doctors are certainly not obligated to lie on behalf of the patient. But, as Jim Comey observed, Donald Trump eats people’s souls a bite at time. And I’d bet good, green money he’s munching on his doctors’ right now, trying to turn them into campaign spoxes.
We’ll know he’s really sick if we hear they’ve started dexamethasone. And if he gets intubated (put on a ventilator), he’s got about a 40% chance of dying.
Dr Lickerman: Dr Conley just now stated, Sunday, 04 October, 10:40am Centralm that he was given Dexamethasone.
Dr Maas
first dose thereof … … y e s t e r d a y
because of two bouts of low O2 levels.
Blue
It appears they may have started it early. tRump seems to think you can hurry the process along and probably insisted. He may not have done himself any favor. Dexamethasone can really suppress the immune system, and his should be battling the virus right now.
Apparently Trump gets the royal treatment – untested cures. If he survives his treatments, the crisis of potentially passing into severe condition comes in 5-8 days, I believe. That the apparently clinically obese 65+ man has already had breathing difficulties bode not well.
Here’s a video of White House chief of staff Mark Meadows asking reporters to go off the record, so I reckon we can make an educated guess as to who one of the two anonymous sources close to the White House giving interviews was:
https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1312429131079057409
It will be fascinating to see how it unfolds. I don’t think him dying would be a good thing for anti-Trump/Democrats, as he would likely become a martyr. Yes, he’s old, but one assumes he’s on some high-end anti-ageing medication.
Yeah, but you can’t elect dead martyrs.
Though (as the late Christopher Hitchens used to like to point out) the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea made a pretty good attempt.
cr
So what if Trump becomes a martyr to his hordes of admirers? There is no martyr clause in the Constitution that lets them pick the next president.
The little ‘military’ parade of undoubtedly medically competent whitecoats, from the hospital to the microphone, appears to have spent too much time learning to be competent doctors, and not enough time learning to be competent liars.
It took about 3 seconds to deduce that Trump knew he was sick long before the official story of that.
I wonder if any of those New Jersey lucky Trump donors will now be voting Biden, at least the ones who don’t succumb before Nov. 4.
Sub
Just to answer the question you asked as a headline. “Is Trump Sicker than We Thought?” Oh yes! Oh Ceiling Cat Yes! (Has nothing to do with coronavirus though.
Strange: we have Covid, Covid-19, coronavirus…what is the best term? It will be figured digitally.
) And “China virus” and “Kung Flu”. It has a different connotation nowadays than Spanish flu…perhaps Spaniards were mistreated during the pandemic of Spanish flu, but I’ve never come across it. Is “virus” more of a trigger than “flu”? Strange, the word games around this thoughtless, micro world of killers…talking about the T. administration, but the virus also applies.
Coronavirus are many viruses. This one strain causes Covid-19. Like there is HIV the virus that causes the disease AIDS
Indeed. I have nearly given up trying to explain to folks the difference between the infection with the coronavirus [SARS-COV19] and the disease caused by the virus [COVID19].
Depending on when we knew he was willfully infecting people, the Trump Virus would be fitting.
After looking at the post-debate national and swing state polls, I’m kinda hoping Trump makes enough of a recovery to do another debate or two. In his alternate universe, he claimed an “easy” victory and rave reviews. Biden widened the margin to 14 points in some polls, and it looks like Trump has not gotten a sympathy post-infection bump. Just lots of thoughts and prayers.