The first Presidential debate is two minutes away, and I’ll be watching at least an hour of it—if my digestion holds out. If you wish, put your comments on the debate below. I may put some reactions in this post, or I may wait until tomorrow.
I’m of course rooting for Uncle Joe.
. . . It’s already three minutes late. Let’s get started!
It’s already a slugfest, and Trump is pugnacious and continually interrupting not only Biden, but the moderator. Shut up, Trump! I can’t believe his rudeness.
Uncle Joe seems to be all over the map, though, not staying on point, conflating Obamacare with Roe v. Wade.
‘Tis 2am here in Scotland, but I couldn’t miss this- if for no other reason than it’s sure to be entertaining! (If you don’t laugh, you’ll surely cry…)
Since I made my mind up about Trump by season 2 of the Apprentice, I have no need to watch him tell dozens of lies.
I know; I’m watching mostly for entertainment value.
I’m not watching for the sake of my sanity 🙂
good choice
And I do appreciate others making the sacrifice!
Wow, barely five minutes in and Trump is playing the ‘socialist’ card!
WHAT a freakin’ mess
already in to Question #2
Blue
It’s Trump’s debate strategy simply to dominate the discourse by interrupting everybody, moderator or Biden?
If you turn off the video, it sounds like mass confusion. Chris Wallace needs to step in and keep this from becoming pandemonium.
I think this will make him look bad, but only if Biden is level-headed, competent, professional. But so far he just seems like he’s being trampled over by the orange loudmouth, so he’s looking weak, frail- or at least that’s how it’ll play, I think.
“Will you shut up, man?” though- great moment.
Full disclosure – I will vote for Biden.
I don’t think Biden looked frail. I think he looked like he was trying to keep from telling Trump to go f*** himself.
I did like the “Shut up” comment.
+1
the moderator should cut off the mic after one warning. bully rules are winning.
I’d go one step further: if one candidate has the floor for 2 minutes, turn the other candidate’s mic off.
I think the next debate should have no direct interaction. Just 2 minute uninterrupted statements. That’s the only way you can evaluate the substance. Even then it’s very problematic.
I agree completely. Watching the “debate” last night was frustrating. I kept waiting for Wallace to just shut off Trump’s mike.
Absolutely. And if the next debate isn’t run that way, American journalism is a total failure. Of course it’s a horrible failure anyway, but this will be further proof.
Not watching. Too much stress.
I feel your pain. The first segment, on the Supreme Court, was a complete disaster, and no real answers were given by either candidate. Both Biden and Trump seem to have talking points rehearsed in advance, and ignore Wallace’s questions to make these points.
Me neither.
Trump is starting to look to me like Mussolini, scowling and tilting his head.
The head tilt and the eyeballs’ stare
Mr Trump did within every debate with
Ms Rodham Clinton, Dr Coyne.
Plus without plexiglass, Mr Trump
physically stalked her from her rear.
With the divider now, the tilt and the stare
deliver as much of a stalk as he can conduct.
Blue
I find it hard to believe that two grown men can’t adhere to the rules, and whose actions would get them disqualified from a high school debate.
Chris Wallace is not doing his job. He’s asking good questions, but cannot seem to make both men adhere to the rules.
I honestly wish that these debates were handled like call-in radio, and that the moderator could ‘pot down’ the mic on the person who isn’t supposed to be speaking.
That’s right. Except, there is an importance to allowing the crazy back and forth. It gives spontaneous insight into character. Who’s the bully comes out quite clearly in this format.
“I find it hard to believe that two grown men can’t adhere to the rules, and whose actions would get them disqualified from a high school debate.”
Yes, we do live in a most endearing and ennobling pop culture.
Maybe Trump’s pre-frontal lobes never fully developed. That would be an excuse for his behavior. (But not an excuse for voting for him.)
It’s a wonder anyone submits to being moderator of such a fracas. Who if anyone possesses skills sufficient to bend such a juvenile (infantile?) human primate to ones will? (Avatars of civility like Gordon Ramsey or the NYT’s Kara Swisher? As an example of the latter’s admirable and congenial interviewing skills, listen to her “interview” of Sam Harris at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc4Zmkx77_0 )
I can’t watch anymore.
Agreed. It’s too much for me. I thought at least it’d be ‘entertaining’ but it’s an embarrassment.
The rest of the world is either pitying the US tonight, or laughing at it.
As they have been for 4 years.
Both.
Agree with #9 above. I cannot watch anymore. This is not a debate as I understand it. It’s appalling.
Nick Cohen reminded us on the day of the UK election 2019 that Twitter is not the UK. But the US presidential debate is Twitter.
I’ve lasted twenty minutes of both of these poor old doods ranting simultaneously at one another, neither one listening to the moderator (who in my ‘umble opinion should have been issued an air horn).
Geez. Our nation is in bigger trouble than I feared. I’ll let the press hacks digest this mess, and save my own stomach. I’m going to watch “Silent Witness.” Gruesome British forensic pathology thrillers are EVER so much jollier than this geriatric schoolyard dustup.
Air horn 🙂 I don’t understand why they don’t use a timer and only allow one hot mike at a time. I’m thankful that Hee Haw in on Circle TV!!
Or a whistle, like in soccer games.
Along with yellow and red cards!!
” . . . only allow one hot mike at a time.”
Trump is not so dense that he couldn’t figure out quickly enough that he could still be heard over Biden’s mic.
So it is an impossible problem to put them at maximum distance away from each other on a very large stage surrounded by thick plexiglass or something? Really?
Or is it maybe that TV would prefer a couple of gladiators drawing blood, boosting ratings?
“So it is an impossible problem to put them at maximum distance away from each other on a very large stage surrounded by thick plexiglass or something? Really?”
All praise, honor and guh-lor-ry to you for being the first (to my knowledge) to mention adding the additional, extraordinary, plexiglass condition. Next it will be placing the candidates at opposite poles of the Earth.
I will take one nanosecond to dress in sackcloth and ashes and to feel inadequate in not having earlier and independently contemplated your scenario.
Thank you for the thoughtful and well considered reply. Now debates between presidential candidates are possible in which the antagonists realize it is possible to actually respond to each other, as you just did, with a genuine and useful discussion of the issues each has been raising.
Later tonight for tomorrow morning’s editions
I cannot imagine legitimate media sources
having readied from tonight upon A Thing
” Debated ” … … ” fact ” – checks.
Blue
I should have said this at the start: if you’re writhing in pain at the debate, watch the next one with a drink in your hand. Then it becomes bearable.
I finished reading your statement, Mr Sharp,
just as I slammed back quite the last of my
cordialful’s Woodford Reserve – swill.
It .is. helping.
Blue
Wise choice!
i moved on to laphroig
trump just said the green new deal will cost 100 trillion dollars.
dr evil redux
I suspect you and a few other astute listeners picked up on that. tRump supporters just say, “Wow!”
Well, that was fun…
I’d call it a slight Biden win, but nothing special really. Can’t wait for election night! Meanwhile, my longstanding desire to visit the US will have to stand a little while longer…
Where are you? Perhaps you could visit once things settle down here in the good ol’ US of A.
I’m in Scotland. I’ve wanted to visit the US for years but never had the chance/money. And given the last year, it doesn’t look like there’ll be a good time for it soon! But hopefully, one day.
Excellent. Be sure to allow plenty of time. It’s a big country.
Very early in, the Dolt said something re. the SCOTUS nomination to the effect of
“I have plenty of time after the election, too…” seemingly referring to the interregnum. That’s a tacit expectation of defeat.
Just a reminder that in a situation like this when you close a mic in an attempt to silence one side of an argument, it just sounds like a mistake on the air. With physical audio sources this close together, spill into the other mic will still be significant.
Not to mention it would have to have been agreed upon by the Commission and both nominees beforehand.
Not as helpful as I’d hoped, but I think the fact that Biden addressed the viewers directly by looking into the camera and pointing his finger, he distinguished himself as caring about humanity as opposed to tRump who certainly cares about reelection.
That was gross. I need a shower and a drink. Ugh….
I saw a poll that 6% of people intending to watch were doing so to make their decision.
I wonder if there is any movement with those people. Presumably they would be the target audience? That and rally the base.
It’s hard to say this debate is going to have much of an impact. Maybe Biden saying, ‘I’m the Democratic Party’ will sway a few voters. Or maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
Lincoln-Douglas, it wasn’t.
Pretty pointless, I thought. However, UK PM debates are not much better in my opinion. I think a better format would be extended interviews by a skilled interrogator ( Andrew Neil anyone? (I don’t know who would be a US equivalent )) Of course, Trump might emulate Boris and do a ‘no show ‘!
I thought Trump was a little more subdued than he was in 2016 with Clinton. I feel however that the reason for that is simply because Trump is overpowering misogynistic and that’s difficult to conceal. Interestingly, one time when Trump became a little animated was when Biden seemed to suggest he was not ‘smart’. Seemed to touch a raw spot Trump is so insecure despite his air of bravado.
A draw I guess.
I watched the whole thing. This was not a debate. This was another nail in the coffin for our country and it was terrifying to see it play out on television. Trump laid out his plan to reinstall himself as president with continued incitement of violence (keeping proudboys on “stand by”); nullifying votes and packing the Supreme Court with judges that will appoint him for another term.
At this point, I don’t think anyone should believe that Trump will leave office if he loses the election. And don’t expect the GOP to turn on him either as he clings to power. I can see it now: Republicans like Mitch McConnell calling on Democrats and President-Elect Biden “to put an end to the divisiveness and concede power to Trump for the good of the country.”
I wish more elected Democrats would openly admit that our political system is broken, that the Constitution of 1787 has failed and that we should summon delegates in a national assembly to draft a new constitution for the country.
We certainly don’t need more “debates” this year. The Commission on Presidential Debates should do all of us a favor and cancel the remaining debates.
I think the Dems in the House are already addressing some of your concerns. They’ve proposed legislation to convert some of the norms of political behavior into laws. That’s a start. I hope much more can be done.
I agree. More debates like this will just increase the rancor and serve no useful purpose.
“I wish more elected Democrats would openly admit that our political system is broken, that the Constitution of 1787 has failed and that we should summon delegates in a national assembly to draft a new constitution for the country.”
Absolutely! I’ve been saying for years the Constitution has outlasted its usefulness. Problem is, it’s seen as sacred, like the rag — I mean, the flag.
I agree that the Constitution is no longer effective as the governing document of the country. Unfortunately, the chances that a new constitution can garner consensus support are nil. Thus we are stuck with the old one. It is like living in a house where the floorboards are collapsing, the pipes are broken and the electricity is off. But, the residents can’t agree on where to move so they continue to live in the old house, bickering and hating each other.
Until tonight, I thought the speculation about what underhanded or fascist lengths Trump would employ to reverse his likely election loss were mere alarmism. No longer. His unhinged ranting on this matter toward the end of the “debate” made two things clear. (1) He is aware that he is going to lose. (2) For that reason, he rejects the election process as illegitimate.
The sole remaining question is: will the Republican Party in several mid-west and mid-Atlantic states follow in regard to (2). If the do, the US experiment in representative democracy may end soon. Perhaps Alexander Lukashenko could send some advisors for the second Trump administration (and then the 3rd and the 4th), while a new Trump Tower is erected in Minsk.
All I can say to that is, Americans have one trait in particular that I admire. It’s that they won’t, ultimately stand for fraud. He’ll be out sooner or later.
He’ll be dead sooner or later. I suppose claiming a coming jesus resurrection isn’t out of the question.
They’re standing for fraud right now. about 40% of them think Trump is just fine and he’s spent most of his term defrauding the American people.
Not for very long they won’t.
We hope.
**afterwards**
I was a little worried going in. I feared Uncle Joe couldn’t keep up with the schoolyard bully moron but BOY was I turned around.
No Malarkey! (I’ll forgive him that one)
Joe handled it incredibly well – he was self assured, prepared, smart and a quick-on-his-feet “together”: no gaffs or mistakes.
hahhhaha — WHEREAS:
Trump was like a drunk in a bar fight – swing after miss after swing after miss. Almost embarrassing he was so off his game.
It was DELICIOUS…. and I go to bed a happy man.
It probably won’t move the needle much, but it was fun and gave me renewed respect for Joe.
D.
Full disclosure: I didn’t watch the debate due to time zone issues, I have only read the BBC report on it.
Trump doesn’t have a game to be off. He’s too arrogant to be bothered to prepare for a debate and he’s too stupid to do a debate without prep. Who among us didn’t know he would behave like a lout? From what I’m reading here, Biden didn’t seem to be ready to take advantage and Chris Wallace didn’t seem to be ready to mitigate Trump’s worst excesses.
I’m concerned that intelligent people still don’t get that the rules don’t apply anymore.
I see the Proudboys are very happy with their shout out and are tweeting things like “Stand by. Yes sir” They’ve already designed “Stand back and stand by Proudboys” t-shirts.
It was painful.
Trump was an over-the-top ranting bully. But I can’t say that Biden did well. He looked weak whenever Trump talked over him, not letting him finish his point. He stuttered, which he normally does, but it made him look rattled. He spent too much time looking down at his podium when Trump was ranting. And he didn’t punch his points home when he had a chance to speak.
I think Kamala would have done a better job.
That being said, I don’t think it will matter. The results are already baked in, Biden will get more votes and Trump will do everything he can to disrupt the process, including inciting his followers to violence. That’s where the real battle for the country will be.
Nearly the end of Season 1 of ‘House of Trump Cards”, hope there’s no season 2. In Australia the nearest thing we have to Trump is a right-wing nutcase called Pauline Hanson, all the tv networks have banned her. Pity they don’t do that with Trump.
Back when Biden won the primaries I predicted the next president would be the candidate who failed to soil his trousers live on air in the debates.
Since nobody has mentioned it, I guess we haven’t had a decisive incident yet. The debate was clearly too short. We’ll need to make the next one longer to save democracy.
For the next debate, perhaps each candidate should stand down in favour of one of those zoo recently donated, but now removed, five African Gray parrots. At least one of them taught the rest some swear words it had learned, so visitors were greeted with “you fat tit”, and “fuck off”, etc. The new info from such a 2nd debate wouldn’t be smaller than likely obtained without that change.
This may seem extreme; but this is what I have written to all of my elected officials, from US Senators on down to local mayors (below).
I have a somewhat low confidence level that we will emerge without Herr Führer Donald after the period from 4-Nov-20 through 22-Jan-21.
***********
President Trump does not have the votes to win on 3-Nov-2020. He knows this.
Therefore, his strategy is to delegitimize the election and retain power through the courts or by other means. In short, he plans to steal this election. He did his best to delegitimize the 2106 election (repeatedly saying that his large margin of loss in the popular vote was due to voting fraud) – and he won that election.
His plan of action is, approximately:
– President Trump is already undermining confidence in the election by continuously questioning the validity of mail-in ballots (with no evidence). This will continue and intensify through 3-Nov-2020. Because of COVID-19, an unprecedentedly large number of voters are voting early or by mail. The data show that Democrat voters are doing this far more than Republican voters. (Many more GOP voters will vote in person, on election day, than Democrat voters.)
– President Trump and his allies are purging voter rolls in urban areas to suppress Democrat voters.
– President Trump and his allies are closing polling places in urban areas, due to the “emergency”, to suppress Democrat voters.
– President Trump and his allies will send (likely armed) “observers” to urban polling places to intimidate and suppress Democrat voters, under the false claim of preventing voter fraud. They will spread misinformation to mislead Democrat voters into voting incorrectly or not voting at all. They know they can go to any urban polling place because the larger percentage of Democrats in those places will always work in their (the GOP’s) favor. (Note that this will not happen in GOP-dominated rural areas.) If they can’t intimidate voters, they may incite civil unrest to close polling stations due to that unrest.
– President Trump will claim victory on election night or early the next morning, regardless of the count and long before the count is completed. He knows that Democrats are much more likely to be voting early or by mail or absentee. President Trump will claim that further vote counting is fraudulent (with no evidence).
– President Trump and his allies will send in their “observers” again to vote counting locations to try to prevent continuing vote counts. Again, they may incite civil unrest to disrupt vote counting.
– If these fail, he will go to court to stop the votes from being fully counted.
– If this fails, he will appeal to the state legislatures in key battleground states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, where the state houses are controlled by the GOP, to send alternate panels of electors to the electoral College on December 14, 2020.
– If this fails, he will go to court to retain power.
– All else failing, he will incite violence in the streets and militarize urban areas, as he has trial-run in places like Portland, OR this summer. He will seize “emergency” powers, stop vote counting, and declare victory.
We know a few things about President Trump: He acknowledges no restraint on his behavior, he lies freely and without compunction, and he does not back down or concede. People have laughed off the talk of a third Trump term or of his daughter Ivanka following him into office. I’m not laughing. When has Trump followed norms of behavior and political restraint or precedent?
The constitution is not designed to protect us from a political coup. We have relied on the integrity and moral norms of our leaders for over 200 years to maintain a functioning democracy. We now have a President who has neither. The 5th Avenue Effect is real: Many of President Trump’s loyalists will forgive any behavior on his part and follow him down any path, including civil unrest and illegal activity.
I ask you:
To be forewarned and prepared. I ask you to watch President Trump and his allies closely and check their operations wherever possible and to bring them to the public’s attention. Prepare ahead of time for his legal moves in court an out of court. Ensure that vote counting is done in places where it cannot be disrupted.
In particular, I ask you to prevent the voter suppression efforts and vote counting disruption, noted above, which I firmly predict will happen (where they are not, in fact, already happening). Above all, please prepare local leaders and police forces to prevent voter intimidation (and potential civil unrest) in urban areas. Deploy police ahead of time. It is incumbent upon those in leadership who do have integrity, as I know you do, to prevent Trumpism from destroying our democracy.
I strongly recommend reading Barton Gellman’s article in the Atlantic from the Nov 2020 edition:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/
Andrew Sullivan’s analysis is also well worth reading:
https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/yes-this-is-the-face-of-a-tyrant
Couldn’t bear to watch live, in the unlikely event Biden flubbed; taped them in case Trump did something outrageous, similar to him physically stalking Clinton at the last one.
Favorite sound bite so far, is Trump condemning white supremacists by saying “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”
He loves his one-liners, but it will be used against him by the end of the day, substituting KKK for Proud Boys.
He could well have added:
‘….stand by with your AR15s, safety disengaged’
My take – Trump had the upper hand four years ago when he represented shake-up in a world that seemed ossified beyond anything ever moving it at all, personified, in many people’s minds, by Clinton as a ‘dynasty’ candidate.
Now, we have had far more change and shaking up than people want. Democrat’s biggest liability is that they are the party associated with civil unrest and riots. Republicans who present themselves as the Honorable Representation of Order and Civility will probably do well in this environment. Trump is kinda acting like a rioter however, and throwing that particular advantage out the window. The center is over “Might makes right” thinking – it has smashed, looted, and beaten small business owners recently.
I’m afraid that for me the phrase “..change and shaking up..” is sufficiently vague and bullshitty as to be worthless.
Perhaps you could give us specific details about the “..riots..” you refer to. Surely Fox news has been providing chapter and verse of the fine details of their accusations. Mass Murderer donald is just too busy encouraging his band of the worst racists and thugs in the US to get down to much detail on that. It is a surprising shame that the band numbers in the 10s of millions, a rude surprise some of us got 4 years ago.
Were I a USian, I’d be thoroughly ashamed, as anyone in the group of white male heterosexual voter-registered USians should be by this point. I understand these constitute the only remaining plurality for the Mass Murderer over his opponent.
If Rush survives (one hopes not), maybe Mr. Limpbrain will be their candidate in 4 years.
Biden missed one chance for a zinger, but he’ll surely have another chance if the next debate happens. When the Dolt started rattling Biden on a slim primary victory (I can’t remember if it was that slim, and that’s relative anyway, but regardless), he should have shot back, “Says the man who lost the popular vote by nearly 3M votes.”
Yes, he actually missed several very predictable opportunities,showing that he either didn’t prepare well or has surrounded himself with poor advisors, or both.
“Hunter Biden” was guaranteed to come up. After Trump is running the most nepotism-ridden administration in recent memory, putting his relatives with no experience in all kinds of positions, and using his daughter to commit tax fraud.
I have come to two conclusions after this debate. First, I don’t want either of these guys to be president. And second, my bet with Jerry is safely won. Trump pretty much said that the plan I bet on was indeed his plan. He will make sure this election goes to the Supreme Court. HIS Supreme Court.