UPDATE: The NYT updated report says that Epstein was on suicide watch, but had been taken off it, though I have no idea why—nor are officials forthcoming about it:
But one federal prison official with knowledge of the incident said Mr. Epstein had been taken off suicide watch a few days ago, and was being held alone in a cell in a special housing unit.
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of being fired, said guards found Mr. Epstein in the empty cell during morning rounds. He had hanged himself and he appeared to be dead.
It would have been extremely difficult for Mr. Epstein to harm himself had he still been on suicide watch, a second official said, also speaking on the condition of anonymity.
____________________
This isn’t a real surprise, since I think he tried it once before. (Why wasn’t he on suicide watch?)
Almost surely guilty of rape, sex trafficking, and other crimes (I say “almost certainly” only because of the pre-trial presumption of innocence), Epstein was facing the rest of his life in jail. That might not be intolerable to someone who’s already done hard time, but for someone who’s lived a life of wealth and ease, and was probably facing attacks by other inmates, it was surely the most depressing future he could imagine.
Has justice been done? Probably not for the victims who wanted to have their say, or the many people who thought Epstein should rot in prison until he died. But a major downside of this event is that the trial won’t take place, and we will never know, I guess, who else was implicated in his crimes. A lot of big names have been bruited about.
While I don’t favor capital punishment for any crime, everyone has the prerogative to kill themselves. As the article below reports (click on screenshot to read it), he hanged himself.
Coward.
I wonder how long it’ll take before the conspiracy theories start pouring in…
This is exactly the kind of thing that the Alex Jones, ‘anti-elite’ nutjobs go wild for.
It’s factually accurate that there were many powerful men who would benefit from Epstein’s death, and one or more of these people had the means to have him killed. Since this is all anyone needs to speculate that Epstein was as likely to have been “suicided” as to do it himself, the not unreasonable speculations that he was killed will be abundant–at least until an autopsy result is disclosed. (Autopsy result is not enough to stem conspiracy theories, of course.)
My friends and I predicted two weeks ago that Epstein would die before trial.
I agree that the circumstances, especially at an early stage like this, are more open to interpretation than other conspiracies.
But Occam’s razor: what’s more likely?
…A chain of conspirators – stretching from some shadowy cabal of famous people all the way to Epstein’s jail cell – who were paid off to aid in his murder, and to make said murder look like a suicide?
…Or a spineless old man who killed himself(after one failed attempt already) because he couldn’t face up to his own crimes?
Remember also that one of those possibilities lacks any physical evidence whatsoever.
It’s possible of course that for once the conspiracy theorists turn out to be right, but I’m not betting on it. Their hit-rate isn’t great.
The speculation that he was murdered has already gone wide . . .
“Or a spineless old man . . . .”
I note from Wikipedia that Epstein was approx. 66 1/2 years old. Just congenially curious, in your view, at what age does one become “old”?
35-ish 😉
“Remember also that one of those possibilities lacks any physical evidence whatsoever.”
Wrong. he claimed a few weeks ago that he was attacked when he was found injured in his cell.
They wouldn’t need to have him killed, just left alone long enough to kill himself.
That seems like a slightly unreliable way to get him out of the picture. Especially if your entire career and reputation hinges on his death.
Check out social media – they are flooding in already.
According to them, this “proves” all their other conspriacy theories were correct!
Let me guess, the Clintons are at the top of the list.
Yup. The Clintons feature heavily in their theories.
I thought they were busy stealing the goo from children’s brains for use in their rituals? The Clintons really are good at multitasking.
The likes of PZ Myers are gloing down various conspiracy paths with regard to Epstein as well.
Epstein seems to attract a lot of conspiracy cranks from the Far Left and Far Right.
I fear the extent of his actual crimes will be lost in the fog.
I’d like to know what would convince them that there WASN’T foul-play involved.
It’s certainly true that there’s motive, but you need a bit more than that, like some actual evidence.
To paraphrase our creationist friends – ‘the Epstein conspiracy: just a theory’.
The Epstein Conspiracy sounds like a spy thriller from the eighties – probably starring a slightly overweight Michael Caine sporting a perm.
Don’t let Harry Brown hear you cracking wise like that about Harry Palmer. 🙂
I’m usually pretty dismissive toward conspiracy kooks, but in this case we’re talking about a man who was involved in an actual, factual 30+ year criminal conspiracy of child sex trafficking with people in positions of authority willing to do unusual things to cover it up or paper it over. And the circumstances are fishy as hell this time too.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s crazy unreasonable to suspect foul play in this case. This isn’t some highly orchestrated conspiracy theory people are concocting here. Do I believe he was murdered (or forced to commit suicide by threats of harm to loved ones, or uncovering of other information that could hurt him or people he cared about, etc.)? I have no idea. He probably just killed himself, but even that might be because he knew just how connected this is to people who he might legitimately or illegitimately fear.
I think it’s reasonable to speculate in this case, considering the connections to such powerful people and what those connections entailed. This isn’t a “we faked the moon landing, here’s all the crazy made up proof” kind of conspiracy theory. I don’t think anyone who simply thinks this was a conspiracy is some kook. A lot of the people who are going any further than that, with the how, why, and especially who, might be kooks.
I get the feeling we’re never actually going to know either way, so the theories aren’t going to go away.
Yup, that’s certainly true. Even if an autopsy says it’s 100% certain that he committed suicide, it’s like I said: people can think he was forced to do so. This is the rare unfalsifiable conspiracy theory.
If Epstein was discovered inside a locked cell (which is where an inmate ordinarily would be overnight), it makes murder unlikely.
Most prison murders — especially contract killings (as opposed to spontaneous beating deaths) — are committed by shiv in the common areas where prisoners have access to one another, such as “the yard” (which, in the case of the MCC in NY, would be the exercise area on the roof).
Yes, there’s no mystery to his suicide. The question we need to ask is where his oceans of cash flow [into which he skimmed a bit for personal profit of a few 100 million or some billions] originated. I think his success was due to running a washing machine – I think a lot of these hedge funds are baloney cover for moving cash around – no genius Quantitative Hedge Fund maths skills required.
If you’re going to wash dictator money & drug money you need an image of analytical competence like Epstein’s & you need the excessive bling & the girls, the private planes, a spare island & a long list of sexually blackmailed influencers to oil your transactions.
Bling, not the right word – not jewellery or anything quite as tawdry as Trumpian gold crappers, but the mansion at No 9 was definitely an expression of who he saw himself as with leopard print covered chairs, personal pics of Woody Allen [!!!], Bill Clinton [!!] & Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. A life-size female doll hanging from a chandelier.
“Watch closely because, remember, the clues are there, as we go through… the keyhole”
At this point it’s either Colonel Mustard in the porcelain crapper, or Professor Plum in the portrait hall. The hanging, life-sized, corpse smelled of precious bodily fluids.
I know how most prison murders happen. All I’m saying is that it’s not outside the realm of possibility that he was threatened into suicide or, far far far less likely, that a couple of guards were paid off. The idea that Epstein didn’t just up and decide to kill himself isn’t a bonkers conspiracy theory like most conjured by those two words.
Where’d you do your time, Beej. 🙂
Or you sayin’ you’ve got the boxed-set of Oz? 🙂
Definitely the second one. Pretty cool dude, huh 8)
I am a retired federal prison guard. This appears to be a typical prison suicide. Guards go through suicide prevention training every year and the question of who are most likely to commit suicide is drilled into us.
The answer is white male over 40, 90 days into their first incarceration. Usually in the special housing unit, most likely between the hours of 3-6 am. Normally has attempted it before.
Normally accomplished by asphyxiation, usually by hanging.
This is simply a suicide.
Thanks for the valuable input, Larry.
Thanks, CO.
Especially the speculation that ‘elite people’ arranged for the suicide watch to not be full of gaps.
strike out ‘not’.
Reddit threads are filled with these already. I bet many of them are from the far left of the spectrum.
He strangled…
Horrible way to go.
Probably not as horrible as what he was facing.
In some sense, you are probably right.
I think ‘soft’ hanging is one of the least horrible ways to go.
Really? Why? Because of the loss of consciousness then death?
Now people are going to conjecture about whom Epstein was going to implicate (Trump? Clinton?).
And the Internet will explode with conspiracy theories of how he didn’t really commit suicide, but that some powerful person had him killed to avoid being named by Epstein.
In any case, it doesn’t feel like justice that a man could rape a bunch of underage girls, get away with it for decades, live a life of wealth into his late 60s, then check out once things went bad for him.
People like Epstein make a nonsense of the idea of divine justice, of karma, of god’s judgement.
One of the biggest intellectual shifts as you grew up is the realisation that good people don’t necessarily get rewarded and bad people don’t necessarily get punished. I think when you’re little you believe that there’s some giant finger that balances the karmic scales. Then you grow up and you realise that that’s not true.
Or some of us realise it. Not everyone by any means. The idea that the universe somehow balances out happiness and fortune is a really persistent, instinctive belief – it’s hard to get rid of.
Eg. I know entirely un-superstitious, irreligious people who nevertheless have convinced themselves that famously unpleasant people, like Rupert Murdoch or Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin, must secretly be “so unhappy behind closed doors”.
And they tell themselves that “rich people are never happy”. Or “supermodels hate themselves deep down”.
I guess it’s a kind of coping mechanism – a way of pretending to ourselves that the universe isn’t as hideously, relentlessly unfair as it seems.
Not sure it qualifies as “unfair,” but the universe is pitilessly uncaring.
‘Lacking in fairness’ seems a pretty accurate description of the universe. Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin – if there was some kind of universal justice system at work these guys would have been struck by lightning or nudged into traffic before they even turned eighteen.
The scary thing is that the only justice in the universe comes from us humans. And we’re not particularly good at it. We can’t even agree on what the word means.
“Unfair” and “uncaring” are terms/constructs that come from our (homo sapiens’) sense of morality and existential balance (perhaps something like moral homeostasis? or maybe not); they cannot be applied to “the universe” though we just can’t help but think of things that way.
I disagree. Of course you can say the universe is ‘unfair’. It doesn’t make any difference that fairness is a human construct(as all value systems are) – it’s still true to say that the universe lacks the human construct of fairness. Ie. it is unfair.
I think you think I’m accusing the universe of being tricksy, or malevolent, or capricious. I’m not, I’m just saying it’s lacking in any kind of quality that we would define as fairness.
I don’t think we disagree though it seems so on the face of it. As you observe,”Of course one can say it’s unfair” but to me it means nothing to say that the universe is unfair as an abstract and absolute statement without stating the nature of the usage. You yourself say, “The idea that the universe somehow balances out happiness and fortune is a really persistent, instinctive belief – it’s hard to get rid of…it’s a kind of coping mechanism – a way of pretending to ourselves that the universe isn’t as hideously, relentlessly unfair as it seems.” Precisely because the idea of fairness “is a persistent, instinctive belief” it’s impossible to make that statement without assuming others will interpret it anthropomorphically — unless the term is first defined in the abstract context. I don’t think we disagree; I think we’re just talking past each other.
@Jenny – fair enough, as it were. I think the general view at WEIT is the one we share. Not cheery, but realistic.
Yes, it’s a bit of the old “pathetic fallacy.”
+1, Mr Saul Sorrell – Till. Utterly true.
And almost all of these criminals of initial “wealth and ease” and status are not Not Males / the ab(Normal)
/ the Human Beings Female.
We, the Victimized, never realize actual justice. And the wealthy and of position continue on
inside their lives of ease. ON to their … … end.
My long – dead Daddy decades ago, “O Kitty.
They sleep .with themselves. j u s t fine,
don’t think that they don’t ! It’s us.
It is us with the consciences. We are
the ones who aren’t able to sleep.”
Blue
“My long – dead Daddy decades ago, “O Kitty.
They sleep .with themselves. j u s t fine,
don’t think that they don’t ! It’s us.
It is us with the consciences. We are
the ones who aren’t able to sleep.””
Your dad was a wise man. That sums it up much better than I could.
You can think of it as one of those circus performers who spin many dishes on long poles. Gravity is the universal force of indifference that destroys the porcelain plates of justice. The performer is civilization keeping things from getting too far out of hand.
We had an unfortunate plate-spinner come to school one day. One of my classmates threw his shoe at him.
…the classmate was a right plonker. I felt very sorry for the plate-spinner.
Noun. plonker (plural plonkers) (Britain, slang, mildly derogatory) A fool. (Britain, slang) A penis. (Britain, slang, dated) A man who sanctions sexual relationships between his girlfriend and his male friends.
Thanks Saul.
Here’s a tutorial on “plonker” usage courtesy of Del Trotter of Peckham, London – the MD of T.I.T:
https://youtu.be/ahcuPHVz6aM
Thanks. Imagine the utility of knowing: “Don’t be a plonker all your life.”
@Michael Fisher – Thanks for the tutorial. Always good to increase one’s vocabulary, and learn about Rodney Rude, too.
BTW, in a post about a week ago, you remarked “In the context of sharks, it is amusing to me that you go by the handle ‘Jenny Haniver.'” If you mean re the composition of the cryptozoological object, that would make sense, though sting rays were more prevalent. If not, the only items I could find online were Jenny the tiger shark, Jennifer Shark at MIT, and a video “Shark time with Jenny,” none of which has any relation to this Jenny.
I remember the first day I heard the word, when I was about six or seven, and my dad yelled it at another driver. I think I laughed for about five minutes straight.
Until I read your post I had absolutely no idea that it had that meaning, about farming out your girlfriend though. We both learned something!
I read that he actually was on a suicide watch. How he managed to kill himself on a suicide watch makes me suspicious.
Yes, this report from 24th July says he was put on suicide watch:
https://tinyurl.com/yyyqozyz
(which will surely feed conspiracy theories)
ABC News is reporting that he was not on suicide watch, but does not say when he was taken off suicide watch or why. The media is a little fact light these days; more important to have a story than a complete one.
Yes, he was on suicide watch. I don’t think it is unreasonable to suspect foul play here.
I think sheer incompetence (on the part of prison staff) is more likely than conspiracy.
I think it’s reasonable to be dubious…but to actually suspect foul play? Why? Is there any evidence whatsoever?
And especially to start constructing giant edifices of politically motivated bullshit about the Clintons getting to him* or Trump drugging his hot chocolate or whatever the hell is happening on social media(I haven’t looked).
*not that I think you’re doing this, obviously – I’m talking about the inevitable avalanche of utterly toxic lunatics who latch onto anything suspicious and turn it into a flaming car-wreck of interconnected mentalness that ends up with someone shooting up a pizza parlour.
Yes, there is a bit of evidence. As I mentioned, he claimed he was attacked a few weeks earlier, when he was found injured in his cell. Not worth a whole lot, but it is the only evidence we have for that event. Those who discount it have the burden of proof, I think.
Actually, I see the guy who was initially accused of attacking Epstein in his cell claimed that he was really just rescuing him from a suicide attempt. So there is that counter-evidence.
I agree – anyone who discounts the idea totally isn’t being reasonable. But I don’t see many people doing that.
Like I said to BJ I can’t see any definitive conclusions coming out of this anytime soon, not enough to satisfy anyone either way.
Personally I think this is more likely to be a cowardly old man who topped himself than any grand conspiracy, for the following reasons(and more):
– this is one of the most famous men in the world, any suspicious death is going to attract an avalanche of speculation and investigation. That’s a big risk for anyone trying to get him killed.
– there are significant players who were with him throughout his career, who have almost as much evidence that they could divulge as him. It’s a huge risk to take given that having him killed is no kind of guarantee that you won’t get named by one of his associates anyway.
– because it’s the most boring explanation, and life has a habit of serving up anti-climaxes in these instances. Eg. was it the Abominable SNOWMAN??!! No, it was just a fat albino ape who liked the cold and hated tourists. Was it BIGFOOT!?!? No, it was a hairy flasher who got caught running away from a girl guides camp.
Could be foul play was involved. But I’m goin’ with Occam’s Razor unless and until there are facts disclosed for which simple suicide isn’t the most straightforward explanation.
According to the latest reports, Epstein was “in the SHU” (the Segregated Housing Unit, where inmates are kept for disciplinary reasons, aka “the hole,” or for protective custody) at the time of his death. This makes it all but impossible that he died at the hand of another inmate, since only correctional officers have access to prisoners housed there.
Ditto. There should be a ‘law of universal anti-climaxes’ – any time you think some big story is going somewhere interesting and surprising the universe will disappoint you. Always choose the more boring explanation.
After his earlier “suicide attempt” he claimed he was attacked.
“It was not clear to jail officials at the time if the injuries, which were not serious, were self-inflicted or the result of an assault, the sources said. Epstein told authorities he was beaten up and called a child predator, they said.”
Who know if he should be believed, but many people with infinitely deep pockets and enormous power had strong motives to see him disappear. And apparently regular prisoners hate child abusers, so someone might have done the deed without needing any payoffs or deals.
As of 10am:
“Spokesperson Aja Davis said the coroner’s office is still investigating the cause of death and would not yet confirm the cause.”
“or the many people who thought Epstein should rot in prison until he died.”
He did rot in prison until he died.
I would argue that people awaiting trial for crimes should lose the right to end their own lives.
That would be fair enough if they’re then allowed to ask for suicide pills if convicted.
“ask for suicide pills ”
I fully support this!
In Epstein’s case, I’d say he could have asked for suicide pills, but be given a dull spoon instead.
A very dull spoon.
Well they do forfeit their right to end their own lives. That’s why, when they give indications that they might commit suicide, they are put on suicide watch.
I’m just making the case as a principle. In too many places, like in my state, suicide isn’t considered a right so we need to go elsewhere to end our lives (with assistance).
Retributive justice leads nowhere and implicitly endorses the notion of Free Will. Removing people from society who have harmed (and will likely harm again) is the right answer. If restorative justice is possible, I would be in favor, but inducing suffering for the purpose of revenge makes no moral sense.
I am not at all prone to believe conspiracy theories; in fact, I tend to be quite skeptical. However, Epstein was on suicide watch, and it was in the interests of some very powerful people, including Trump, to keep him quiet. All it would take is bribing one or two corrupt prison guards.
Yup. And he did claim he was attacked a few weeks ago when he was found injured. I don’t understand how some commenters above can be so quick (and so insulting) when they dismiss conspiracy theories about this case, based only on what we know at the moment.
The whole story is a real mystery. What did he value more than his own life? Did someone get to him and make a deal? Maybe there was nothing, and then with all the big names and the gangster likes on power? Rumors abound, no doubt.,GROG
Epstein was in federal custody at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, not nearby at “the Tombs” or out on Rikers Island. The Feds are generally better at preventing this sort of thing. Given Epstein’s earlier attempt, he would’ve been put on “suicide watch,” but the first reporting suggests that he was taken off it recently, which seems weird (though I’m not suggesting anything untoward).
I thought Epstein would wind up cooperating in a bid to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Prosecutors won’t have that evidence now, of course, but the US attorney’s office for the SDNY would’ve never brought cases on the testimony of Epstein alone; they would have required corroboration. To the extent such corroboration exists, I would expect the investigation to continue regarding any accomplices, co-conspirators, or aiders & abettors Epstein may have had in the trafficking and abuse of underage women.
I hope Epstein’s victims end up with a big chunk of his estate in a civil settlement.
The victims may get nothing. The founder of Victoria’s Secret will claim the money was looted from him and hire lots of lawyers to get back what is left.
We’ll see; the ensuing litigation should provide fodder for the tabloids and mainstream media alike for quite some time.
I think lawyers will be the major beneficiaries of his estate.
They switched him out. He’s on an island somewhere sipping drinks.
With Paul McCartney who’s been there since 1965.
I heard from reliable sources that Trump had him killed in order to distract the media from the latest spate of debacles.
I heard the same thing from my sources!
We’ll know for certain if there is another scandal during the next week that obliterates this one from memory. Like that other time it happened, which I can’t quite remember exactly.
If he is on a suicide watch and there ain’t no way to hang himself how did he hang himself? That doesn’t make sense unless he got a string and choke himself but it doesn’t make sense either.
Suicide by one’s own hand is no longer illegal, nor should it be. But all suicides (even physician-assisted ones) are ultimately selfish acts. A suicide like Epstein’s is especially selfish because the people he wronged will not see earthly justice meted out against bim. On the other hand, all of us will meet God and Epstein will face judgment from Him, as all of us will.
Ummm. . . why are physician-assisted suicides selfish acts? That seems dubious given that many who choose to end a life filled with pain and terminal disease are supported by their friends and loved ones.
Finally, before you can post further, please provide us with evidence (and not just “your feeling”) that we are all going to meet God and face judgment. Seriously, where do you get the evidence for THAT?
“But all suicides (even physician-assisted ones) are ultimately selfish acts”
What a fantastically selfish thing to say.
+1
+2
I tend to agree that suicide is selfish. (I am not sure whether I think physician-assisted suicide is, I am leaning towards not, and I certainly don’t believe in judgement after death.) When you commit suicide, you leave behind a dead body for a family member, friend, or stranger to find, or you leave no body, which just causes worry about what’s happened. Depending on why you commit suicide, if you are someone like Epstein, who would presumably have done it to escape justice, then you leave behind all your problems for other people to deal with in your place.
If not selfish, then it is usually out of self interest. And there is nothing wrong with that. If not wanting to suffer is selfish, so be it. I don’t know why this is a controversial statement.
“Suicide is selfish” is such a cliche and tired argument. Others point out reasons below but I’m always left with the thought “so what? people shouldn’t commit suicide because they’ll be considered selfish afterwards?”
Isn’t it too late to guard their reputation? Does anyone think this has deterrent value? It’s your life, what right do others have in its preservation?
I think it’s incredibly short sighted to claim that suicide is, by its nature, selfish. If you’ve ever suffered unrelenting pain (physical or mental), you’d have a glimpse into why suicide is a good option to end suffering and any family or friend who would rather you endure that then have to deal with their own anguish at your absence or having to deal with the trouble of disposing of your body and distributing your estate seem, to me, to be the selfish ones.
Absolutely agree.
It would be horrendous for someone to discover a body. But the intensity of unhappiness when you’re feeling truly depressed, I think it’s just not describable to another person. It’s something that they will have thought about for a long time beforehand.
Also I think a lot of suicides are people who are incredibly sensitive, way too sensitive to cope with life. They feel anxiety and misery and guilt about other people almost as much as they do about themselves, so they will have thought about the consequences for their family and friends over and over again and no doubt felt terrible pain at the thought…but they will still have gone through with it, which tells you how unhappy they were.
I discovered a body once: he was in his 50s, just divorced, started drinking constantly. He worked for my dad who had a computer store; he was a salesman. He shot himself with a 22 and I found him the next morning in the office, still sitting in his chair. I was a kid and I remember just feeling sad. Sad that people suffer so much in this life at times. But never once did the thought occur to me, “gee, how selfish.” That seems like an odd thing to think.
That’s rough. It breaks my heart, and it makes me angry when people talk about suicides in such a way, as though the termination of someone’s hopes, dreams, loves, ambitions, is selfish because of the stains they’re going to make on the carpet.
As though it’s the equivalent of a bunch of frat bros throwing a party in a hotel and leaving a mess for the maid.
I can think of several suicides that are the opposite of selfish, like the old Inuit who him/herself a burden to his/her band and wants to be left behind, to die from exposure or starvation, being a prime example.
Very similar to the story of Oates on the Scott expedition.
“…all of us will meet God…”
Wow, no kidding? So with 151,600 deaths per day (approx. 2/second), how does the deity keep up with all the judgments? How does “he” find the time to listen to the billions of daily prayers? If you spend a little effort of thought, a sound conclusion is that upon death, there is no meeting and therefore no judging.
Also good because I’d like to ask this deity where he was during the holocaust.
And what about that asteroid strike in the Cretaceous?
As Ricky Gervais says, “What did the squids do?”
As a good CEO, maybe God delegates the judgments to his bureaucracy, aka angels. He may get involved only when an angel can’t make a decision due to conflicting evidence. In big cases, such as Epstein, he may want to make the judgment himself with the trusted advice of his son. All in all, the angels can decide the fates of the “little people.” 😊
And that doesn’t count how busy He is on the other end, handing out souls to zygotes.
The latest word is that Epstein was NOT on suicide watch for the last two weeks. He was deliberately taken off despite obviously still being a suicide risk.
Only a conspiracy nut would think that is suspicious.
This is suspicious as hell to me, whether that makes me a conspiracy-monger or not. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean there isn’t someone out to get you. And just because crazies are inclined to suspect conspiracies doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
What makes a conspiracy theory not totally bonkers here is that it needed only very few people to be involved.
Contrary to, say, the ‘faked moon landing’ or the ‘9/11 inside job’ conspiracy theories.
Coulda been a grassy-knoll gunman.
This Esquire headline sounds about right:
“Nobody Will Ever Believe the Official Story on This”
Is there a video surveillance system in the jail. If there isn’t, one has to wonder what a suicide watch entails.
It typically entails a guard checking on the prisoner every 5 minutes or so along with increased restrictions on what a person can have in their cell. Typically they won’t allow anything that could be fashioned into a noose. However it’s now coming out that Epstein was not on suicide watch even though he should have been.
Is there a video surveillance system in the jail? If there isn’t, one has to wonder what a suicide watch entails.
I don’t see how you can put somebody who has not yet been convicted of a crime under video surveillance. It would constitute a huge invasion of privacy.
I find it difficult to believe he didn’t keep evidence of others criminal acts. As I understand it he was blackmailing people over their participation. If so, he has something squirreled away. It may be encrypted, but he didn’t encrypt the pictures on his computer. Probably thought he was safe right up until the police showed up on his door. Perhaps right up to when he was refused bail.
I really wish the media would stop showing his picture. I hate his face, right up there with Trump and Moscow Mitch.
I bet there is a lot of interesting traffic to and from his island right now.
I’d be interested to see a reliable source for that understanding, if you happen to have one available.
Sex Fiend Escapes Justice Into The Future: Given that Epstein wanted to freeze his head [brain] & his cock for resurrection, some qualified person should check both appendages are presently & correctly part of the corpse!
That made me think of this passage from Hunter Thompson’s corrosively hilarious obituary for Richard Nixon:
I can’t ever read an excerpt of The Duke without wanting to read more. He creates an itch that needs to be scratched. That last line is frickin’ priceless.
The Nation of Islam publishes an article arguing that Epstein was done in by…
(can you guess?)…
yes! The Jews.
(sigh)
https://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2019/08/epsteins-death-contract-killing-ordered.html
Apparently there were cameras monitoring his jail cell but…
… they malfunctioned so there is no footage of his apparent suicide.
See, now that IS suspicious.
Source?
Leading with “apparently” in your camera malfunction comment JB is an easy get out – a solid source would help. Something not associated with Breitbart or similar would be nice please.
This unfounded rumour seems to have begun with a a bag of wind, bullshitter, neo-fascist named Michael Coudrey AKA Mike Tokes who is in the business of promoting himself for the purposes of expanding his nebulous businesses. He operates in the slimy world of digital PR & he doesn’t have a track record beyond his own statements regarding his track record.
He’s out of Vegas & he describes himself as “New Right” – he’s known for not paying back personal loans & passing bad cheques at the casinos where he’s no longer welcome. [the latter I got from the 2+2 poker forum I frequent]
He co-founded “The New Right” which has failed to make a splash – he seems to be extremely ineffectual & thus he bigs himself up with scare quote “apparently” type stuff…
Here’s the tweet that probably got the camera ball rolling – don’t read the comments – he’s followed by vile, moronic conspiritard types:
https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1160199691373621250
Conspiracies cannot be entirely dismissed outright, just because loons believe in them. If there are enough resources, and enough at stake, it becomes rather likely that interested parties don’t sit on their hands.
But I don’t believe it happened here for his death does not tie up loose ends, but fires up speculations, and he leaves behind potentially many victims who now might have even more reason to step forward to tell their story. In short, his death doesn’t have the effect the conspiracy believers say it has. Unless, of course, they’re saying he simultaneously had many victims, with many of the elite participating in crimes, and at once, all of this was mysteriously covered up. That would make it a “classic” then, a large scale operation, yet somehow all of these people keep quiet.
“his death does not tie up loose ends,”
And exactly how do you know this? And why would that preclude some nefarious plot?
It doesn’t preclude anything. It only says that the crimes that involve victims, and circumstances that already led to his arrest are still around. Conspiracy nuts often operate with partial scenarios, especially the bigger the conspiracy gets.
Jerry, you got me thinking when you wrote:
“While I don’t favor capital punishment for any crime, everyone has the prerogative to kill themselves.”
Given this stance (and your pro position on assisted suicide for suffering people with incurable diseases with which I agree) would you allow other convicted felons who are guilty and serving life sentences without the possibility of parole to also kill themselves if they so desired? Why or why not?
I doubt that we’ll ever know exactly what transpired in Jeffrey Epstein’s cell last night, and conspiracy theories are pullulating like maggots on a cadaver. Trump is now leading the pack by suggesting that the Clintons are responsible. How long will it be before he finds a way to implicate Obama, too?
Right about now I could use a Mae Brussell to sort out these conspiracies and weave them together into coherent incoherence.
Oh god, well of course he was going to leap in. Ever helpful the president.
Retweeting those slanderous rumors has to be among the lowest things ever done by Trump.
He brings shame to America.
AG Barr involved:
Obviously this means is that the Epstein-Barr virus is spreading…
+1
The rich never stop believing they can get away with anything.
I wonder how much it is the money itself, or if certain sociopathic personalities are just good at business. Perhaps having no scruples to begin with makes one good at accumulating wealth.
“Epstein’s body remained at the hospital until Saturday afternoon, when Medical Examiner’s staffers in a black van took it to the ME’s Office downtown.
A second, white medical examiner’s van was parked at a separate door as an apparent decoy for the crowd of press and photographers gathered at the hospital.”
-NY Post
This kind of thing doesn’t help….
Forget it, Lou; it’s the NY Post, famous for headlines like “Headless Body in Topless Bar”:
https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/111301frontpage.jpg?quality=90&strip=all
That’s a great headline! And it was true.
Anyway I remember that this newspaper is or was owned by the Moonies, and is no paragon of journalism. But their statement is at least half-right: a screened white medical examiner’s van left the prison that day. More than that, I don’t know.
It seems the staff checked the bar to see if it really had topless women before running that famous headline, suggesting they aren’t hacks.
“The headline was perfect, and the Post newsroom knew it. “The whole staff gathered behind Vinnie, like one of those oil paintings you see of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, with the founding fathers huddled together to absorb the impact of the moment,” former Post staffer Charlie Carillo recalled years later. After confirming that the bar did, indeed, feature topless dancing, the Post ran the story under Musetto’s screaming front-page headline. The rest is tabloid history.”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/headless-body-in-topless-bar-writer-dies-but-why-was-that-headless-body-there.html
Yeah, some of the The Post‘s headlines are classics. I remember the one about the witness who couldn’t identify the alleged mob boss who had assaulted him: “I Forgotti!” 🙂
It’s a Rupert Murdoch tabloid (you might be thinking of the Washington Times, which was owned by the “Reverend” Moon), and a strongly pro-Trump organ — although it did come out last week, right after the two massacres, in favor of banning assault weapons.
Thanks for that correction, yes, I was thinking of the Washington Times.
“left the prison” should read “left the hospital”
Surely by now everyone reading this post knows that the plot has thickened considerably overnight: “Before Jail Suicide, Jeffrey Epstein Was Left Alone and Not Closely Monitored” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html
Perhaps it was a genuine suicide,something he desired, perhaps abetted by people who literally looked the other way. But perhaps we’ll find that his was a suicide like that of Roberto Calvi in the early 1980s, the Vatican banker found dangling from Blackfriars Bridge in London, bound hand and foot, stones stuffed in his clothing.
Yeah, as I recall, Vladimir Putin’s enemies have a habit of committing suicide under similar sketchy circumstances.
They’re dropping like flies.