I wouldn’t bother calling attention to the article at issue except that its author, Jody Allard, is a fairly widely published journalist, having written for The Washington Post, Time magazine, Vice, the Guardian and, yes, HuffPo and Everyday Feminism.
Her new piece, “I’m done pretending that men are safe (even my sons)“, appearing on the website Role Reboot, is also worth looking at because it shows how someone who is apparently sane can nevertheless demonize all men as instruments of misogyny who foster what Allard says is a “rape culture.”
Now, I don’t know exactly what people mean by a “rape culture”. Rape is a serious crime in the U.S., nobody I know takes it lightly, its incidence has been falling (85% since 1980, according to government statistics [and a drop of more than 50% for college-aged women since 1996]), and, at least from my own experience, I’ve never heard a man say anything about rape other than it’s horrible and offenders should be punished severely.
Of course I don’t inhabit all American cultures, but Allard’s sons, as white, educated middle-class males, can’t live in a milieu much different from the one live in. But I hasten to add that rape is still far too common, with roughly 15% of women experiencing it at least once in their lives. That horrifyingly common! But if we do live in a “rape culture,” then we live even more in a “robbery” and “aggravated assault” culture, with the rate of the former four times higher and the latter nine times higher than the rate of rape.
The need to reduce the rate of sexual assault, catch more offenders, and punish them severely should not, however, mean that all men should be demonized as potential rapists and/or misogynists. Yet that’s exactly what Allard has done in her article. She says there is no such thing as a “safe” man—even her own sons. I think that’s an exaggeration, but let’s hear what she means by “safe”:
I have two sons. They are strong and compassionate—the kind of boys other parents are glad to meet when their daughters bring them home for dinner. They are good boys, in the ways good boys are, but they are not safe boys. I’m starting to believe there’s no such thing.
Apparently Allard’s sons were quite upset when she wrote a Washington Post essay saying that her sons were enabling rape culture and were blind to their own sexism and misogyny. Since then Allard has been “educating” her kids, but I’m not sure whether the kind of “education” they got from that essay was good for them (they were in fact appalled). It’s one thing to be told why rape is a horrible crime, and another to be told as a young kid that your own behavior allows those crimes to happen. Surely “not all men” are rape enablers, right?
But Allard disagrees (my emphasis):
As a single mother, I sometimes wonder whether the real problem is that my sons have no role models for the type of men I hope they become. But when I look around at the men I know, I’m not sure a male partner would fill that hole. Where are these men who are enlightened but not arrogant? Who are feminists without self-congratulation? If my sons need role models, they may have to become their own.
I joined Bumble recently, after a six-plus year break from dating. I’m not overly interested in dating in the first place, but I’m starved for adult conversation so dating feels like a necessary evil. Bumble, as I explained to my married friends, is like the feminist Tinder. Women have to initiate contact with men, so at least there’s no inbox full of dick picks every day. But, feminist or not, the men are no different from the men anywhere else and I quickly felt deflated. If the feminist men — the men who proudly declare their progressive politics and their fight for quality — aren’t safe, then what man is? No man, I fear.
I know I’m not supposed to cast an entire sex with a single paint brush — not all men, I’m sure some readers are thinking and preparing to type or tweet. But if it’s impossible for a white person to grow up without adopting racist ideas, simply because of the environment in which they live, how can I expect men not to subconsciously absorb at least some degree of sexism? White people aren’t safe, and men aren’t safe, no matter how much I’d like to assure myself that these things aren’t true.
It may be true that all men absorb sexist ideas, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t try to root those ideas out, or, more important, act on those ideas and treat women as inferiors or sexual objects. Allard doesn’t think her sons will be rapists, but for some reason she doesn’t feel “safe” around them. Why? Because, like all men, they don’t believe everything women (and rape victims). That kind of doubt is in fact embedded in our legal system when it adjudicates rape, as it does all crimes, by looking at all the facts and convicting only when the evidence is beyond reasonable doubt.
Allard continues (my emphasis):
My sons won’t rape unconscious women behind a dumpster, and neither will most of the progressive men I know. But what all of these men share in common, even my sons, is a relentless questioning and disbelief of the female experience. I do not want to prove my pain, or provide enough evidence to convince anyone that my trauma is merited. I’m through wasting my time on people who are more interested in ideas than feelings, and I’m through pretending these people, these men, are safe.
I love my sons, and I love some individual men. It pains me to say that I don’t feel emotionally safe with them, and perhaps never have with a man, but it needs to be said because far too often we are afraid to say it. This is not a reflection of something broken or damaged in me; it is a reflection of the systems we build and our boys absorb. Those little boys grow into men who know the value of women, the value that’s been ascribed to us by a broken system, and it seeps out from them in a million tiny, toxic ways.
What bothers me here are the notions that feelings always trump ideas, that someone’s feelings are not just to be taken seriously, but believed absolutely, that those who don’t accept every word are rape-enablers, and that all men are not just tinged with sexism, but dyed with it to a degree that their actions enable “rape culture.” (I have to add that, in her Post piece, Allard says she was once raped.) I wonder how many women I encounter share her feelings, and see me in this way? And I wonder whether teaching all boys that they’re perpetrators of “toxic masculinity” doesn’t demonize them without justification, and represents the wrong way to educate people how to treat each other as moral equals.
By tarnishing all men as rapists (and all white people as racists) it distances those people from you. Who wants to engage and understand if they are immediately dismissed and demonized?
Sure, it’s true men can’t always get where women are coming from (I once had a boyfriend that couldn’t understand why women wouldn’t want to be raped because he’d welcome sexual advances on himself), but there are many that can understand if they really want to and having worked in a male dominated field for 20 + years, I can tell you that younger males can be a real pleasure to work with as they don’t carry all the baggage of the past. Moreover, there are many men my age and above that are lovely. I suppose it’s the assholes one still encounters that undoes all these good experiences since one bad encounter tends to wipe out a handful of good ones.
This is just the old argument that since a man has a penis he is capable of rape.
Oddly enough it also implies that a man can’t help but rape since he has a penis.
Why do so many extreme arguments also prove to be circular?
It’s not so much circular as poor math (which is certainly not limited to women).
What’s true is that 90% of violent criminals are men. The % of rapists that are men is probably higher. But that doesn’t mean a high % of men are (or excuse, or countenance) rapists, any more than the fact that 100% of pregnant people are women must mean 100% of women are pregnant.
That old boyfriend of yours was pretty much an idiot.
Yes, the only way I could get him to understand was to describe a repugnant looking woman and to say if he’d want her to force him to have sex with her.
He wasn’t very smart.
So…because I’m a white male that automatically makes me a racist, sexist potential rapist?
That’s nice to know. Thanks , complete stranger from the internet, for telling me all about myself.
I’m sure there a term for judging people based on their gender or race, and I”m sure it’s not “progressive liberal”.
Bigotist?
If you look hard enough for something you will find ‘it’, whether ‘it’ exists or not.
And if you find some trace of ‘it’ it’s an easy step from ‘some of an identifiable group do it to ‘all the identifiable group do it, or would do it given the opportunity/circumstances’.
By the same argument since women are more likely to abuse children (according to USA statistics I once found) then ‘all women are potentially child abusers’.
How does that feel?
Talk about sexist.
Where she says she knows it’s bad to paint one sex with one brush, she should have followed up with, “but I’m going to do it anyway”.
Rape culture? Toxic masculinity? You’re soaking in it!
Come on. Yeah, there are some segments of society where that’s the norm and it’s deeply unhealthy, but that’s not the majority view.
It might be in the best interest of her sons that they are taken out of her custody.
But the feelings! They are real! :-/
:-/
Especially since she claims one of them is suicidal.
But she continues to degrade them in print.
How appalling! Those poor kids.
“Yeah, there are some segments of society where that’s the norm and it’s deeply unhealthy…”
The White House, for instance.
Many thoughts are triggered by this woman’s painting of all men as unsafe and part of a rape culture.
I sympathize with all women (and men) who have been raped. It happens more than we are told within families, as well as communities (the father, brother, uncle, cousin, neighbors, etc.) Fortunately, I have never been raped, so am unable to perceive all men as potential rapists. My experience doesn’t define or reinforce that fear. However,I have met men who probably qualify for this mindset and found them repugnant.
Still, I have been most fortunate in that my male family and friends have been loving, caring people in the best of all human ways. Maybe, I was just too innocent or ignorant to know otherwise, but I feel as though I always have been well treated and protected.
Coincidentally, I’m through wasting my time on people who are more interested in feelings than ideas.
Very apt framing, thanks.
Well, Jerry, I for one do not look at you and think, “rapist”.
When it comes to our legal system, there has to be evidence. We can’t convict people on feelings for rape or any other crime. (I feel like I’ve been burgled?) And she might not be the sort of women who accuses men of rape or other sexual assault when it didn’t occur, but there are women who do. That being said, the improvements already made in the way rape victims are treated by law enforcement need to continue, and more improvements are required.
There are things about being a woman that men can never fully understand. However, the same can be said about being a man. We can sympathize, and empathize, but we can’t know.
She says she’s not damaged. To me, she clearly has major trust issues.
I think her own sons also have good reason not to trust her, and they should be able to trust their parents more than anybody else. She could have written this article without exposing them to the world, and imo it’s wrong that she didn’t.
Statistics like 15% of all women having been raped doesn’t mean 15% of all men are rapists. Men who rape usually attack a number of different women – it’s rare for it to be only be one. And even if 15% of men being rapists is accurate, it still means 85% aren’t. That’s a pretty big majority. The behaviour of men towards women in all facets of life has improved noticeably in my lifetime, and I expect it will continue to improve.
Running men down at every turn is not the way to encourage change. She’s doing just what they did to us in the past. The bad ones are now a minority, at least in the West, and that’s a positive.
This is why I like you, Heather. We may not always agree on the smaller details, but we agree on the bigger picture. When I sometimes talk about the current majority of the feminist movement, I’m certainly never talking about people like you.
+1
Cheers BJ.
“Statistics like 15% of all women having been raped doesn’t mean 15% of all men are rapists.”
Hee hee hee…*erp*
…serious topic..don’t make jokes….
….resist….
…..ah, the hell with it…
“One in 20 people have been a victim of crime, which means that 19 out of 20 people must be criminals. No wonder we need police”
-Philomena Cunk
Ha ha, I’d forgotten that. 😀
Absolutely, Heather. I think it’s been found that men who rape a woman, are generally serial rapists, so the 85% number is overstated, the % of men who rape is very small.
There is a rape culture in that a larger % of men may react with some disbelief when a woman says she was raped. I’m thinking also of the judges who ask what she was wearing, etc. and the very light to non-existent sentences that are sometimes handed out. But, women who would claim that means all men are unsafe are NOT helping to fix that.
“Rape culture” isn’t the correct term, I mean “misogynist culture”.
Are there judges who ask a woman what she was wearing in a rape case? I’ll be honest in that it sounds like an absurd scenario.
It’s completely normal to have some disbelief regarding rape claims just like it’s normal to have disbelief regarding harassment claims or assault claims. Simple skepticism – particularly for the most public people involved (ex/ celebrities, politicians) is warranted.
In practice, most of us like to believe our friends, acquaintances and family when it comes to these types of claims and it’s understandable and desirable to be empathetic in such cases. On the other hand, the praise showered on those who make public accusations (like those mentioned such as mattress girl) and the scorn for the ALLEGED perpetrators by the media and public at large is a bit of the opposite problem. The “listen and believe” narrative has needlessly split people into 2 camps and those using phrases like “rape culture” to describe the western world are frankly divorced from reality. Rape is looked at second only to murder by the public in how awful it is.
Yes, judges can be woefully ignorant about rape. Take this one for instance who asked the woman why she couldn’t just keep her knees together. What a peach. I hope he doesn’t have daughters.
Crazy I know. It’s a blast from a not so nice past.
I thought you might bring this up. It’s a dishonest quote-mine, bandied about by those who want you to believe such extreme behavior is common and acceptable.
Here is the transcript.
https://www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/Camp_Docs/2016-09-08%20Exhibts%20-%20Agreed%20Statement%20of%20Facts.pdf
ctrl-f for “knee” it should be the second hit. He’s asking for clarification on the scenario given (her sitting in a sink basin in the bathroom) trying to understand how she was raped when he jeans + sitting in the basin would make it very difficult to penetrate with a penis.
Now, I personally think it’s just poor wording. This might in part be due to his inexperience in this type of trial (as per your link)
More details here (especially evidence suggesting that she wasn’t raped and intended to have sex… but if you don’t like the source or opinion you can always read the transcript itself rather than taking quote-mines as reliable):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Z3p0jHVHw
—
Now, you didn’t really answer the original question regarding clothing. Has such a question been asked by a judge before? Ever? In the last few decades?
I don’t really think you were asking me specifically to answer your questions and am therefore impressed at you ability to read my mind in knowing I’d point to a case since I wasn’t even participating in this thread. But go ahead and dismiss the “sex in the air case”. There are lots of cases if you’d like to Google “rape, judge, clothes” so I’m. It going to do that for you.
Now even though not a judge, so I’m sure you’ll dismiss this as me avoiding the question as you did above when I am trying to just add to the conversation, but the cop that started the reaction called the “slut walk”as a protector and an enforcer of the law said, “Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized”
Sorry I don’t pay close attention to names so I got mixed up.
Anyway, thanks for the link. I’m not familiar with the case so I won’t say much about it beyond what was in the article but what I got from it was that the alleged rapist was convinced sex was a possibility based on the behavior (in particular for this case, clothing and location as well) and this lead to misconstruing there being consent. The defense lawyer points out that alcohol likely played a role in this.
But, it at least fits the criteria so thanks!
re: last example
Yes although not a judge it’s certainly relevant. Thanks!
BTW did you read what the judge was asking her? I’m sorry but it wasn’t quote mining. Here it is from the transcript and I really don’t understand why you think that was an appropriate remark given the context of this drunk girl being raped:
This is why rapes are not reported. I couldn’t go through that line of questioning. This judge thinks she should have just squiggled out of the penetration somehow and all would be well?
Right. If she somehow thwarted the rape by doing that, does anyone think he would have just thrown up his hands and said, “You got me! I’ll just leave,” as opposed to punching her repeatedly in the face?
The old courtroom defense of having a someone trying to fit a pencil into an empty, moving coke bottle, was always good for a laugh to prove to juries that rape is impossible.
I said I think the phrasing was poor, and did read the questions leading up to it. That said, it is perfectly acceptable to ask why a victim did or did not behave in a way that could have protected themselves. It’s similarly reasonable in a public place to have screamed for help (it was in a bathroom but others were nearby). That said, it was a technical question regarding the situation. Aside from phrasing, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.
I’m not saying that her behavior in such a scenario makes her a liar, to be as clear as possible.
I would expect the judge to ask questions like “did you tell him no” or “did you scream for help” but these weird questions about wiggling her vagina out of the way is just odd and I think speaks to the judge not really getting it.
Also perhaps not squiggle out but she says she was being licked before penetrated. He didn’t just magically wind up inside of her. Maybe she didn’t consider falling back into the sink, I don’t know. She was drunk, after all.
That said, I have mixed feelings about that aspect of her story but more importantly, he had evidence that she wanted to have sex (telling a witness that they were going to have sex in the bathroom) and I wouldn’t be willing to convict in such a scenario. Remember, it’s not up to him to prove himself innocent. The burden is on the prosecutor
But I’m not debating any of that. What I’m saying is the line of questioning from the judge is inappropriate to establishing anything. It would make sense to ask why she didn’t call for help. Why she didn’t say no but asking her to wiggle her bum into the sink or keep her legs closed seemed way weird and indicates the judge isn’t getting it anymore.
The experts on rape were in the 70’s were the Chicago Police department copswho gave self-defense lectures to women’s groups consisting of “Submit, submit, submit,” and openly joking “If you’re gonna be raped, relax and enjoy it.”
Combined with horror stories from their quoted experts on the subject: convicted rapists who bragged “I know one woman who fought back. She’s dead.”
But there was also Chicago detective Vitulo who worked tireless to invent/package the first Rape Evidence Kit.
The same kits that are *backlogged* and not even tested by some states. And this is the present state of affairs.
Ya that’s scary.
BTW, rape kits not all being used doesn’t mean much. A rape kit at most tells you that sex happened and maybe that it was rough. That doesn’t say anything about consent which is often enough the topic of discussion.
ex/ rape accusation where the alleged perpetrator admits that sex happened but claims that it was consensual. What good is a rape kit for that? Also, many accusations are made without someone seeking medical attention and/or police within an appropriate time-frame (I’m curious for the stats for this)
FOR TRAVIS.
“BTW, rape kits not all being used doesn’t mean much.”
Wow. Just wow. Doesn’t mean much?
How about to the women who were encouraged to report the rape, and do the kit, under the promise that this would help catch her rapist, and stop him from doing it to some other woman? How about the ones who were shocked to find their evidence was never tested, or destroyed? How about the old kits that have now been tested, and have caught *serial rapists*? How about to the decent men in these women’s lives who wanted to see justice for their girlfriends, wives and daughters?
Check out the progress in *your* state at endthebacklog.org
http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/where-backlog-exists-and-whats-happening-end-it
re to SA Gould
It appears that I’m confused, and the website to be honest is confusing me further.
Does untested mean literally unused (sitting in storage) or not completely processed (waiting for lab techs to do whatever they need to do with them)? I can’t tell if you or the website are combining several different things into one category, here.
If we’re talking about destroyed or unused evidence, then that is awful. Especially if something went to court and it would be relevant info.
BTW I’m Canadian.
Travis: “Does untested mean literally unused (sitting in storage) or not completely processed (waiting for lab techs to do whatever they need to do with them)?”
Yes. Yes it does. And it took the End The Backlog project to bring this to light.
They found that some “jurisdictions… don’t consider the untested rape kits in their storage facilities to be part of a backlog—that officials actively chose not to test those kits.” Refused to process because it costs money, and ‘women lie about rape, dontcha know.’
Because now that some jurisdictions are cooperating and testing the DNA evidence we have found:
“As of March 2017, testing these backlogged rape kits has resulted in the identification of over 1,250 suspected serial rapists. These serial offenders, linked to kits in just three cities, have committed crimes across at least 40 states and Washington, D.C. They have not just committed rape—many have been linked to other violent crimes, as well.”
Yes, though those judges don’t exist in NZ anymore at least. They’d lose their jobs if they asked a question like that. I agree that sort of attitude does help to perpetuate a culture that makes it more difficult for women. As an aside, I’ve never heard anyone suggest men shouldn’t wear tight jeans and t-shirts to discourage rapists.
I don’t think calling it a “rape culture” is helpful because, quite frankly, as women we’ve got to the position we are in now because of help from men. It is better for everyone if men and women are treated equally and we’re all in that together. Using the term “rape culture” pushes away men who would otherwise be supportive.
As with most crimes, the commission rate is c. once per month.
RAINN’s 2013 report on campus sexual assault found that only 3% of the male student population were responsible for 97% of the assaults.
I haven’t trusted RAINN for years. Not only do they regularly endorse studies that inflate rape statistics for women, but they have repeatedly lobbied the DOJ and FBI to not publish statistics regarding all the types of rape that occur of men, and continuing to stick with the terminology of “forced penetration” instead. They’ve also repeatedly opposed laws defining or outlining rape of men by women, again preferring “forced penetration.” They have literally lobbied multiple times to keep the word “rape” out of any sexual abuse men face, even in law. It’s horrific.
Well said, Heather.
Allard is a run-of-the-mill bigot.
The black American community has a higher murder rate than the white, but anyone who suggested the blacks tolerate or encourage a “murder culture” would be publicly crucified as a lowly racist. How can Allard not recognize she’s doing the same thing?? No doubt she thinks her views are justified because they are based on fact, but this is true of every bigot. Most bigotry is based on a biased interpretation of genuine facts.
I used to think that during the last few centuries we’ve clawed our way up from barbarism to our present tolerant, compassionate liberal society, but I’m starting to think this is just a thin patina that could easily come crashing down.
If we are to tarnish all men as rapists, then we should also put the blame for rape where it truly lies, which is female behavior.
The reason rape exists in primates is that access to fertilization opportunities is very scarce, which has created a situation of very intense competition between males for sexual access to females. Which in turn drives sexual dimorphism towards bigger and stronger males. Which in turn at some point makes it easier to just directly corner some female and rape her (because you are bigger and much stronger) instead of fighting other males.
Feminists have to get it in their thick skulls that there are trade offs in life. So you want to zealously guard your oocytes and only pick the very best mates? Well, that has consequences…
And the reason rape has gone down so much is that sexual mores and restrictions have relaxed quite a bit in the last decades, which clearly points towards what direction we should be pursuing if we want to get bring it down even further.
P.S. Before anyone cries out “naturalistic fallacy”, because I know somebody will, please note that nothing in the underlying behavioral dynamics has substantially changed from our days as primitive apes to the current situation. I have seen countless articles by women complaining about how hard it is to find males worthy of their lofty standards, and a fundamental part of the sex negative feminist agenda that seems to have won the internal war within feminism and is the dominant form of it now is to institute more controls and restriction of male sexual access.
“The reason rape exists in primates is that access to fertilization opportunities is very scarce…”
THAT’S the reason? You sure about that?
This blog is called “WhyEvolutionIsTrue”, do I have to remind that?
Nonsense. You want to put homosapien behavior in the same basket with all other animals? You think man does rape simply as a sex act? You are simply wrong. And stop thinking of the female as one who causes this act — that’s just false.
Congratulations, you just failed Reading Comprehension 101.
IRandy reads just fine: “we should also put the blame for rape where it truly lies, which is female behavior.”
Yes, now read the rest of the post and try to figure out what “female” refers to.
Hint: you should think on a bit grander scale than the immediate context of 2017 US middle class existence.
There we have it Walt. We are just too middle class to understand. If we are to solve this problem of rape all we need is mass vasectomy and the need will be gone.
Yes, you are too middle class to understand, that is correct.
Also, let’s get some people’s blood really boiling and ask the unthinkable: who are you to say that rape is a problem in the first place?
The cold hard facts are the following:
1. The only thing that matters at all in your life is your reproductive success
2. Females, unless they really really really lost the genetic lottery and are infertile, get to reproduce by default.
3. Just by being a male, you have a very high chance of never reproducing (and it was actually much worse in the past, when behavioral patterns were becoming hardwired and when probably something like half of males did not reproduce).
Therefore it is much better to be born a female. The price you pay for that is that you might get raped, but as long as you don’t die or get seriously mutilated in the process of being raped, it does not leave much lasting harm, and 500 years into the future there will be no trace of you but your genes anyway, so it’s an irrelevant inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.
But while the only purpose in life (if there is one) is to reproduce, as you’ve rightly pointed out, that purpose is, as you’ve illustrated above, separate from happiness. So, in other words, if I want to just spread genes, I can do that without being happy or even living very long and evolution doesn’t care about that at all (not directly anyway) but since we are capable of so much more than mere basics, we can ask ourselves (and back up now because I’m going to try some philosophy and I know that’s a bit controversial on this site) is that the sort of society I want to live in? Would that actually help human flourishing? I think the answer is no and that’s why we don’t live in that society and the people who do live in such societies don’t flourish.
You are doing exactly what I accused you of doing in the first place. You are looking at the animal world behavior and throwing us right in there. You are in a class by yourself sir. Part of having this big brain of ours is to separate our behavior from the other species. And by the way, rape in the human world is about violence much more than sex. Find us a rapist in prison who says – I was just trying to have kids!
Find me people who understand that they are animals — as you yourself are perfectly well demonstrating right now, it is quite rare.
@Randy: demanding examples of rapists who say “I did it to have kids” is not a good argument. You’re also unlikely to find a rapist saying “I did it for the power/control”.
People are not necessarily conscious of their motivations.
Yes it is called that. Another thing about this website is that people are sometimes called upon to defend their claims.
You’ve come up with an scenario that you claim is why humans rape each other and you ascribe it to evolutionary pressures. Your evidence? Something about sexual dimorphism and poor access to fertilization opportunities.
So my question; that’s it? Rape is a consequence of evolution? Are you sure about that? It can’t be explained by other characteristics of our species other than “access to fertilization opportunities”?
As I repeatedly noted, the real world is complex and you have to consider as many factors as possible.
It is really striking that I hear the stuff you’re posting here from people who refuse to consider anything beyond their immediate early 21st century surroundings as factors that needs to be understood
When you look at primate behavior as a whole, the patterns that emerge are indeed best explained in the context of mating strategies. But, as I said, it takes a bit more than naturalistic fallacy cries to understand that.
I am quite aware of the complexity of the real world and I do try to consider as many factors as possible. Your condescension is noted and dismissed.
I haven’t the spoons to argue the point with you. I’ll only say that from the cheap seats it sure looks like it is YOU who are not seeing the complexity.
You are attempting to ascribe a ridiculously reductive reason for a highly complex behavior, one whose complexity doesn’t derive solely from our evolutionary past. It is impacted in highly complex ways by all sorts of biological, psychological, and societal forces. To simply say we rape because we are animals is, well, sophomoric.
Have a nice day.
To GM,what about rapists who kill their victims? Are they trying to have children or are they trying to escape justice? What about men who rape other men? Yes, there are animals that do the same thing but, in order to have children?
Website. Not blog.
And that was not supposed to got *there.* Was for GM. O well…
Do share with us your causal theory here.
Utter nonsense. Rape is primarily about control not sexual satisfaction or passing on one’s genes.
IMO this is a false dichotomy. It is perfectly possible for both to be true.
There may very well be an evolutionary basis for rape and simultaneously be largely about control. These are not mutually exclusive. Determining the relative contribution of these factors is a difficult but not unreasonable scientific question.
The main reason why human males rape is that they can.
It would be very difficult for 99.9% of human females to rape me unless they had a knife or a pistol, meanwhile I would have no problem raping 99% of human females because I am 6’4”, weigh 230 lbs, and have twice their upper body strength,
Thus the best explanation for why rape happens — sexual dimorphism, which makes it possible, on one side, and differential parenting investment, which creates incentives to rape, on the other. Note those incentives are deeper and more ancient than our social structures, and rape is also more ancient than them, thus they are a better explanation in this case).
Then question is why the sexual dimorphism arose in the first place.
“They can” is not a reason. It is simply the absence of a prevention. Actual motivations need to be provided and substantiated.
Sexual dimorphism is common among species. If “rape” (assuming a reasonable definition that can be applied across all sexually dimorphic species) correlates highly then that would tell part of the story. But it wouldn’t explain variation between different human societies in the frequency of rape. Nor would it explain why some people are more prone to be rapists than others.
It very much is – the first prerequisite for something to happen is it being physically possible.
Many things are physically possible that don’t occur. I am physically capable of killing my family members. I somehow neglect to do this.
If my neighbor kills his wife/husband/child/dog with a crossbow “because he could” would not be acceptable as a cause. Possibility is not motivation.
First rule of holes; when you find yourself in one, stop digging.
Yes, but when there already is a motivation, whether there is also a possibility becomes something of major importance
Is it about control in all other species in which it happens and which have nothing like out social structure?
Seems doubtful.
It can be about control, that is correct. But that need not be why it appeared in the first place.
You’re saying that sexual dimorphism leads to rape behavior in animals, and thus in humans, too?
Now, there is a correlation across species between dimorphism difference and harem size, but I’d sure like to see a plot of your hypothesis — especially where dolphins and hummingbirds fit on the line.
Life is complex, you cannot expected all variables that matter to be constant, only one to change, and very clear answers to be available to all questions.
But one thing is clear — there is no other “purpose” to life than passing your genes to the next generation (if that can be called a purpose), and if you choose to ignore that when analyzing anything biological (and accordingly, because humans are biological organisms, anything about human behavior), you have failed from the beginning.
Regarding primates, and apes specifically, that sexual dimorphism arose as a result of sexual competition and that why rape occurs can only be understood in that context is the most viable approach to the question. I have hard time seeing why anyone would see that as controversial unless:
1. The person has ideological blinders on
2. The person is too immersed in comforts of the modern Western lifestyle and/or is too biologically ignorant, and therefore is incapable of seeing humans as biological organisms subject to the same evolutionary forces as all other species, which are to be analyzed and understood as such.
I have read that only about half of the rapes that men inflict on women are vaginal. One quarter are oral, and one quarter are anal. Also, men rape men, women rape women, pedophiles rape children who are too young to reproduce, etc. In other words, only a minority of rapes have the potential to result in pregnancy.
Once again, first, the world is complex, and second, it is generally a good idea not to think of everything in the current immediate context, but try to understand it on a grander scale.
Human behavior was not molded out of thin air in the last 100 years, some aspects of it go back hundreds of millions, if not billions of years into the past, others are much more recent.
While sexual dimorphism obviously correlates with having offspring, what’s missing in this conversation is that the mechanism evolution has devised for getting there is the sex drive–which most of us do find pretty powerful and which, when pursued by the cis-gendered using the evolved parts intended for baby-making often enough does indeed result in children.
This is in answer to those who are asking why, if sex is all about progeny, are there occasionally irregular couplings, self-satisfaction, fun variations, violence, etc.–think of those as all just byproducts of lust. Er, powerful hormones.
Humans are able to think of their own purpose.
Moreover, they have better means of creating knowledge than the extremely slow and blind process of evolution by natural selection.
Biology is not destiny. Alone among all un-god’s creatures, man has the ability to accumulate knowledge over time — individually, over the course of a lifetime; collectively, as a society, over the course of many lifetimes. And we have language so that, based on this learning, we can articulate mores like the golden rule. Men can project how they would want to be treated were they women, and to comport themselves accordingly in matters regarding sex and procreation.
True in general, but it is also true that man has serious trouble accumulating knowledge about certain subjects. Such as his own biological nature
“…put the blame for rape where it truly lies, which is female behavior.”
Utter nonsense. I freely grant that sexual dimorphism and females being picky about mates is a significant causal factor for rape, as some desperate males will otherwise fail to have opportunities to reproduce, but I can turn that back around on makes just as easily: it is because of promiscuity and the attendant insufficient parental investment by males that females are picky about their mates in the first place, so it’s male behavior that is the root cause as a female who isn’t picky enough risks abandonment.
Or we can not play this absurd game where evolutionary psychology excuses choices sapient individuals make. I don’t deny that evolution has predisposed males and females toward different reproductive strategies to some extent, but the conflict is a two-way one and not the “fault” of either sex any more than the other. Laying the blame solely on female behavior is to look at evolution with an incredible bias in favor of your own sex’s preferences.
“…back around on makes” should be “…back around on males”.
Well, yes. Naturalistic fallacy.
Humsn primates have acquired a level of intelligence that means we do not have to succumb to the simple “if A then B” flow chart the first part of your comment describes. We can all be picky about our mates. And we can all refrain from raping people. It’s that simple.
Wait…did you just say that WOMEN are responsible for rape? Were you raised by chimpanzees? (Chimpanzees are very male-dominated..they rape with impunity.)
Did you just say that feminists have ”thick skulls?”
Do you have ANY idea of the frequency of ”date rape?”
Do you blame us for that, too?
You said incidents of rape have “gone down” due to relaxation of sexual mores….are you saying that women should just relax and enjoy it?
Let me tell you something…”feminists” are people who believe women should be paid equally for equal work…that women should have control of their own bodies…that women are equally entitled to respect, education, salaries and the expectation of physical safety.
You seem to disagree and I’m very glad you’re not part of my circle of male friends!
GM, one biological phenomenon you’re overlooking is the advantage evinced in some species that results from pair-bonding. Biologically this can lead to courtship, better food provisioning, mutual tending of offspring, and whatever other complementary roles might result in increased survival of offspring.
(Seems an attractive strategy in a species that is K-selected and whose offspring have an inordinately long and dependent stage before reaching sexual [nowadays more often phycho-social] maturity.)
I am well aware this happens, but in our own lineage things did not go exactly that way — they went in a fairly pathological direction, if I can use that term.
It should also be noted that pair bonding and rape are by no means mutually exclusive things.
Gorillas are a classic example of something of the sort — they don’t exactly have pair bonding because one male is dominant over multiple females, but those relationships are fairly tight. For a while, at least. Because when the male gets old, a younger male rapes some of his females who then promptly switch from the older male to the younger one who raped them (because the fact that he raped them means that the older male is no longer strong enough to protect/control them).
Similarly, Homo sapiens has a certain level of pair bonding but rape is still quite widespread (don’t let the current situation in highly complex Western societies fool you, if we were in the wild with no law enforcement around, there would be few females who die without being raped at least ones in their life).
2. Females…get to reproduce by default.
3. Just by being a male, you have a very high chance of never reproducing…
So just *the woman* is just reproducing herself by giving birth, but not *the male?*
Most interesting theory.
bizzaro parthenogenesis
ah… and then along came the bonobos.
A truly amazing strategy but leaves them open to their aggressive cousins for resources.
Anyhow, it may be we humans are caught in the middle of this sexual dilemma. We of course, can use our somewhat superior brain (or not) to overcome evolutionary urges and thats what we tend to see.
It is i think as Mr S Pinker writes, we are very much still sorting the civilising and pacifying process and i single out misogyny as one mindset trait that needs to be overcome.
To me this is a subset of equality for all, education, health etc and fair to say, it is a long way off.
I think this nonsense is sometimes referred to a Schrodinger’s Rapist.
Although people like Ms Allard are being deeply misanthropic (not merely misandrist) when she voices her concerns, she does have a point. Really she does. But it’s a point that touches more deeply on her than it does on the real dangers women face in our society. She can’t tell if the guy next to him is going to rape her just as I can’t tell if the black man down the street won’t rob me or the muslims next door won’t go nail-bombing the neighborhood children*. The thinking is the same.
I am not sure that Ms Allard see how this works but there is no doubt that she would not accept that the thinking is the same.
*rhetorical examples
Or Schrodinger’s Car Driver.
Nice analogy.
I am not able to understand her thinking, especially regarding her own children but I think it is something that women, raising kids (boys) can have more affect on than almost anything else. My mother raised me to respect women and never to hit them or anything like that. My father always followed the same example. Therefore, after reaching adult age the idea of ever harming a female was simply not to be done. Far as I know, rape is an act of violence far more than a sex act and many people do not seem to understand this.
Anyway I would say that any harm to another person, especially to a woman is not acceptable and that is the proper way all males should think.
Why is it no surprise that her view of men is informed by her poor dating life? And I bet she’d be the first person to castigate men who express frustration about women after those men have experienced their failures in the dating market.
The sad fact is, if you mark all men as rapists then this just means that when you cry “rape” no one will believe you; thus this gives further cover to actual rapists and perpetuates the “rape culture” she is so ready to see everywhere.
It might even prompt a man who isn’t a rapist to become one. Since he’s already a rapist without having done anything he might as well do the deed if he’s already been accused. To use a cultural phenomenon that happened a while ago, rock and metal bands were called devil worshipers, which in turn led to some bands actually becoming what they were accused of… which then led to a bunch of church burnings in the mid-90s.
Exactly.
And more generally, if men feel that no matter what they do, they will always be accused of being sexist pigs, many will eventually say “fuck it, there is no point trying to conform to arbitrary norms, let’s indeed be sexist pigs”.
That’s how we got Trump elected, BTW
Seems right to me.
People called Trump a sexist pig. A lot of people knew that all men were sexist pigs, so it didn’t make him any worse than anybody else.
“A lot of people knew that all men were sexist pigs…”
I presume this statement is merely rhetorical. But I am often wrong.
??
I think he’s just referring to a substantial proportion of Trump’s base. Evangelicals, rednecks, etc….
As quoted she seems to be saying women are ‘unsafe’ from gay men.
Exactly what I was thinking. I hate a discussion that starts with “ALL ___are ___”.
Yes, absolutes are something that should be avoided. I was going to say “Everyone should stop using absolutes” for the jokes.
This woman is flat-out loony: to imply that ALL men should be demonized as, “rape-capable” is equivalent to the notion that ALL “white” people continue to be “oppressors” and “owe” reparations to any other race that was enslaved or abused in the past. Oddly enough, the attitude that there is some kind of “demon” in all men (even her sons) that promotes rape feeds into the Islamic notion that women tempt weak-willed males into “bad thoughts” and actions- not only does it demonize men, it “dehumanizes” them by implying that they are beasts who can’t deny their own instincts, something that women can apparently do. It’s just another of the SJW horribly simplistic, “begin with the assumption that you’ve been, and ARE being wronged” attitude that ends up causing more divisiveness than ever.
Didn’t you know, all women are false-accusation capable and also capable of infanticide?
This collectivist thinking is getting real tiring
Allard needs a therapist.
I dont mean that facetiously.
Yes, I agree. Although Allard says, “This is not a reflection of something broken or damaged in me”, I think it may be exactly that.
At the very least, a reflection of extreme self-obsession.
Having been socialized in part outside the First world, let me make an observation.
The white, Western, first world is the least sexist, racist, and homophobic area on Earth. It’s no accident that it is the birthplace of both feminism and gay rights movements.
Now, I suspect that the article’s writer is very much a progressive social liberal who truly believes that “our society” is the most racist, sexist, and homophobic in the world.
That could hold until a change occurred: mass immigration from less tolerant parts of the world.
So on the one hand, the writer must see these people as victims, and as victims not capable of transgression. And yet, we know what we know.
And not only that, but the entire concept of assimilation is branded as racist.
My point is that there is now extraordinary tension between the reality of cultural practices, especially as regards women outside the West, and the exigencies of “social justice warrior” catechism.
And the irrationality and anger that you see in this, and many other articles, is that tension and cognitive dissonance.
My observation is that these people are not interested in gradations of guilt. Western society exhibits sexism, racism, and homophobia, and is therefore guilty. It has more things it is guilty of because it also practiced/practices Colonialism, and embraces Capitalism.
I’m glad you mentioned the non Western world because I find a lot of these articles seem to think that the whole world operates in the same way. It’s complete ethnocentrism.
If she wants to see examples of “rape culture”, she should check out how women are treated in places like the Congo, India or Papua New Guinea. But no doubt that’s all the fault of western colonialism, so whitey’s to blame after all.
Or nowadays, some places in Europe. Where sexual violence by immigrant middle-easterners has been downplayed lest it conflict with Ctrl-left orthodoxy regarding the latter.
And in Sweden, “the number of gang rapes increased spectacularly.” and in rapes of this kind “culprits and victims are most often young and in almost every case, the perpetrators are of immigrant background, mostly from Muslim countries.”
See https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
Ain’t multi-culturalism grand!
There is another perspective. Some people thrive on conflict. We are a society where people tend to try their best to accommodate the requests or needs of others.
So it can be very disheartening when you make demands of people and have them immediately accommodate you in order to avoid offending you. Since they need conflict for self validation, they then need to find something new to rail about. This continues until they are latching onto increasingly trivial issues to generate the same levels of offense.
The obvious solution is to find a complaint that people can never accommodate. Being male. or White, or whatever. They get to stay angry, and there is nothing you will ever be able to do to satisfy her.
Of course. her claims about “all men” are subjective, based on false data or her personal experiences.
Many of us have known women who are smart and sensible, but seem to always be drawn to the worst sort of men. Anyone else can tell within moments of meeting them that the guys are trouble, but she is oblivious, until later. I could see how such a woman could begin to make assumptions about “all men”, because she is unaware of her own selection bias.
Excellent point, dd.
I think I would like Allard to define rape. I am not sure whether she is referring to some actual trauma she suffered, or to a general trauma that exists for all women. In either case, I don’t think that insufficient (by her standards) sympathy or empathy constitutes a crime, or would be limited to men.
And what does it mean to be an “enabler” here? Clearly something less than being an accomplice or accessory to a crime. Or is it worse?
Both her seemingly generalized assertion of trauma, and her generalization about men being enablers makes me wonder if she isn’t just talking about women and men, and the difference between the sexes (which is not just cultural). Generalizing in this fashion only trivializes the actual act of rape.
Poor kids. They are being abused by their mother. I hope there won’t be any long lasting psychological harm.
And of course the obligatory racism is here too: “But if it’s impossible for a white person to grow up without adopting racist ideas,”
The fact on the matter is that white people are generally not more racist that any color of people. Racism is a global problem and picking out whites like this not only wrong, but actually harmful and in itself is a form of racism.
Aren’t you forgetting that ONLY white people can be racist? People of other colours can be *prejudiced*, but they can not possibly be *racist*, as that is restricted entirely to the white-cis-male-hetero-capitalist-patriarchal-conservative-hegemonist- …
Oh, sod it, I just can’t be arsed… 🙂
Exhausting, isn’t it?
This woman is really damaging her kids, especially her sons. It wouldn’t be terribly surprising if her boys grow up to hate women.
More likely, to hate themselves.
I don’t know about that, but they may grow up to hate their mother.
A mother who has more or less called them by the worst possible insult: Motherf**kers.
Everyone in this comment thread–do have a look at the article Taz links to above in comment thread #4.
“…a relentless questioning and disbelief of the female experience.”
As opposed to her own slandering of all men?
Mote, beam, eye.
I don’t doubt that her dating experience is a disaster.
I wonder if she goes on every date treating the man as a potential rapist – that would be a really good way to start a relationship.
Date: “Would you like something to drink?”
Her: “Are you trying to get me drunk so you can rape me?!”
She asks a pointless question in this example since he can’t be trusted to give an honest answer. Because all men are rapists.
Perhaps he could be trusted, in her worldview, to say “No, not right now. Later, of course.”
Can’t even trust her own male kids, or (presumably) their father?
Then why even try meeting new males on dating sites?
To widen her “men I can’t trust” circle, I guess.
‘ I do not want to prove my pain, or provide enough evidence to convince anyone that my trauma is merited.’
Similarly I don’t want to prove I care about her pain, or provide enough evidence to convince anyone that I care in the slightest about her trauma.
I empathize with her sons. I’d be livid if I were them.
I was raped as a teenager. Yes, awful. But no, I don’t see all men as holders of original toxic masculinity. Not at all. And, honestly, there are times of the month when I frankly want to be taken, not exactly aggressively well maybe yes aggressively. Want men not to be timid. Want to be thrown on a bed. Clothes ripped off. Mouth covered. The fact that something like this happened when I was young and a virgin and with someone who overpowered me and didn’t listen when I said no, doesn’t make me not want men now. For a long time I was ashamed of the rape, though. Blamed myself. And it has taken a long time to understand that I want masculine energy, the contrast to my predominately feminine softness and obsequious need to care. The only difference was my voiced no and tears. He was a troubled man. Should have stopped. But after many years, I want primal masculinity. Want someone to do the taking. Not always! And yes to stop if I say so, but I don’t want men to have to castrate the impulse that does in fact match what sometimes would feel very good.
Many women are afraid to admit that they want to be taken. Because if they do, they will get blamed for rape. Or at least that is part of the fear.
It’s apparently easier to push men away–locate toxicity within all those who have penises and feel pure oneself, escape one’s own desire for the masculine. Self-intersectionalize as a perpetual victim.
(FYI, I know “taking” is a stereotype of masculinity. I just went with it.)
If you ever have the chance, Charleen, see the movie Things Behind the Sun.
I’d be interested to know what you think of it.
Thank you for sharing with us, Charleen. Sexuality is complex and of almost infinite variety, but “no” is always “no”.
I envy you your innocence, Jerry. There’s plenty of ugly talk on such subjects in the MRA blogosphere. I cruise through some of those men’s-rights sites a couple times a year — just as I cruise a couple times a year through the websites of radical feminists, the alt-right, the human-biodiversity movement, and a few others, and for much the same reason: to keep a finger on the zeitgeist’s pulse. It’s nasty work sometimes, but I look at it as a form of civic duty.
When first I came across the term “rape culture” on feminist sites, I assumed there must be some secretive men’s group I’d never heard of spread across the nation — like the Shriners, say — that actively encouraged men to engage in rape. I was relieved to find there was not.
We live in a sexist society — in some ways entrenchedly so, and most of us are tinged with it in one respect or another (myself included). But the terms “sexism” and “misogyny” are too often conflated, I think. The latter ought to be reserved for instances of hatred or contempt for women, not for mere bias and obliviousness.
I don’t cruise through MRA sites but I’ve been shocked by the number of female colleagues in academia who’ve told me that they’ve received anonymous rape threats because of disgruntled students or whenever they’ve spoken in the media about controversial topics. I don’t buy the author’s assertion that all men are potential rapists but there clearly are a subset who are.
I’ve heard it is fairly common for women in the public eye to get rose threats and that any woman who is a news anchor or famous, has to have body guards because of rake threats.
You might be surprised that it’s equally common for men too. Death threats are common and, yes, even rape threats. I know several popular Youtubers who have to deal with it every day. The difference is they notr the media talk about it.
*they’re not who the media talks about.
Wow, that’s some typo. Don’t know how I made that one happen, but I’ve impressed myself!
You might be surprised that “the media” is. It who I heard this from but from men in the industry who are friends with women who go through this.
…just as I sometimes listen to the far right radio talk shows…
Just as I read this website. 🙂
“But the terms ‘sexism’ and ‘misogyny’ are too often conflated”
Or sexism and misandry? Surely we’re not saying only men are the ones being sexist or women facing sexism at this point. It seems one thing for which we’ve found equality is a proportion of each sex hating and denigrating the other. Hashtags like #KillAllMen, women being hired in many fields at a rate of 2:1 in order to promote “diversity” and regardless of qualifications compared to male counterparts, family court treatment, criminal conviction and sentencing treatment, civil judgments, college kangaroo courts, article after article about how awful men are, nobody being willing to even allow male rape and abuse to be discussed seriously, the constant obsession with violence against women in the media when men make up over 70% of violent crime victims….it seems to me that sexism is at least an equal opportunity game now, if it hasn’t swung in the direction of actually favoring women (there’s no quantitative measure we can use).
So, while sexism against women might have been a sex thing until a couple decades ago, it now seems like it has to do with the tribalistic (and vengeful, as from much of the feminist movement) nature of humans, and I don’t know how we get rid of that.
“So, while sexism against women might have been a sex thing until a couple decades ago, it now seems like it has to do with the tribalistic (and vengeful, as from much of the feminist movement) nature of humans…”
Don’t discount the upsurge of the MRA (Men’s Rights Activists). Both extremes are becoming polarized. And I don’t know how we “get rid of that” either.
“But if it’s impossible for a white person to grow up without adopting racist ideas, simply because of the environment in which they live, how can I expect men not to subconsciously absorb at least some degree of sexism?”
Sometimes I wonder if people like this have ever interacted normally with others. It’s like reading an evangelical diatribe imagining what life must be like in an atheist family, it just doesn’t resemble reality for most people. When I was growing up, in an overwhelmingly white community, we were practically hit over the head with the idea of racial equality and comity. (And good on the teachers, cartoons, movies, etc. for doing it.) As with “rape culture”, you would have to live in some specific and vilified subculture for that not to be the norm.
I’m sorry for whatever trauma this woman has gone through, but I’m afraid it has warped her whole view of society.
If a woman made it clear that she thought of me as a potential rapist I’d regard that as an unforgivable insult. Sure, be careful, take precautions but keep it to yourself. Anyone can think whatever they like, but those thoughts don’t need to be put on display.
This woman reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw:
“Rape. The End of Every Wolfwhistle.”
Just absurd.
I agree about the insult. I can’t imagine how her sons must have felt when she said that to them (or were they just lucky enough to see it in print?). To add to what I said above, maybe at this point it’s time for her to say, Maybe it isn’t literally every one else, maybe it’s me.
All men are rapists, yet she still wants to *date* one? To what end? What is the point?
On the one hand, unreported real rape due to fear of disbelief is a very serious problem.
(According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, it is believed that only 15.8 to 35% of all rapes are reported to the police in the USA.) So is various forms of blaming the victim, known as “slut-shaming”.
On the other hand, lying about being raped has been known to happen, quite notably in the Duke LaCrosse case, and the Tawana Brawley case. Lying about rape may very well be less prevalent, but is still real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
Having looked in some detail into the Dylan Farrow / Woody Allen affair, I find I can draw up quite a lot of reasons to believe WA, and a lot of others to believe DF. But I believe in presumption of innocence. I don’t feel I am a rape-enabler as a consequence.
Another serious problem is lack of prosecution. My county has recently been patting itself on the back for finally analyzing nearly 200 rape kits, some of which go back 30 years.
http://michiganradio.org/post/kalamazoo-county-begins-new-investigations-after-analyzing-194-untested-rape-kits
Not to mention the lengthy and itself-violating protocol for attaining evidence…
I do NOT agree with Allard that there are no safe men, or that all men are part of a “rape culture” to a greater or lesser degree. I think it might be useful to refer to specific groups as having a “rape culture” or a company as having policies that demean women; I do not think it is useful to say the US as a whole is or has a rape culture, especially when no definition is provided to let us know exactly what Allard means by rape culture.
I can agree with her when she says we do not do a good job with sexuality education. I am an ardent feminist, but I worked for many years in residential treatment center for young men who committed various sexual offenses. Part of their rehabilitation was understanding consent.
No, you can’t continue the see-want-take cycle.
I think Allard would have enjoyed their conversations because, if they were successful in treatment, they did understand consent and responsibility. I always felt a bit sad that when they left the center they walked back into a “toxic” environment that would not support their hard-won victories. We need better sex education and a better sexual ethic, but saying all men are unsafe and implying that all women are does nothing to help us reach our goal.
In answer to your question, how many women feel like Allard when they interact with men – just speaking for myself – I think I do to some extent. I’m willing to give men the benefit of the doubt. I’ll expect them to treat me as a rational, capable, intelligent person. Most of the time they do. (I have the same expectation of the women I meet). When people don’t meet that expectation, I won’t hesitate to take corrective action.
Sometimes I feel some of the comments on this site are too dismissive of feminism. We should be creating well-constructed arguments instead of using buzz words and phrases like PC and SJW
In that regard, we mimic Allard.
Excellent comment.
With regard to your penultimate paragraph, my wife’s perspective is very much as you describe. And it is readily evident to me why and that her perspective is justified. There is no doubt that there is a lot of variation, but although things have improved very noticeably since, for example, my teenage years there is plenty of male superior sexism still at large in the US today. The thing that frustrated my wife the most about Trump becoming president, drove her near to tears from frustration, disappointment and anger, was what his election made clear about the persistence and extent of sexism in the US.
Regarding your final paragraph, I agree. I have to admit that I was rather surprised to find that even here there are some people that seem to believe that not only have we whipped sexism and inequality of any kind but that the tables are now turned against men.
I agree with darrelle in his agreement with you. And I’m heartened to hear of your success in treating youthful sex offenders.
Thanks. We had successes, but we also had failures. Treatment is not a panacea. Even though I gave full measure with all the kids that came to us, and tried to be optimistic, and not give up on anyone, I’m a realist. We did not succeed with everyone, and we watched some dangerous people age out of the juvenile justice system and go back into their communities.
I don’t like how Allard frames the discussion, but we can’t dismiss her because the problem she tries to address is very real.
I agree with ken and darelle agreeing with you and I agree with your last two paragraphs especially and perhaps I should be more vocal is expressing my agreement than I have been. I’m glad darelle and ken have been!
Leigh, it may be a losing battle but I try to put in a word for the feminism of the last 30-40 years (“second-wave-feminism) whenever it seems appropriate. Which feminism is still going strong outside of the pomo academic wastelands that attract so much attention here.
Mrs Allard is obviously a textbook nutcase of unhinged “woke culture”. She cannot be regarded as a “sane” person, for her behaviour is extreme and emotionally abusive (to a degree that would prompt me to inform authorities if she lived in my country).
Her own sons are publically “called out” by their own mother, for what seem to be no reason at all, and without qualms in all seriousness placed into a “rape culture” context! It actually means something when words like “rape” are being thrown around.
I heard a few times that family breaks apart, or get estrangedt. I could never quite understand it — it’s alien to me. But in this case, I think her sons should get far, far away from her.
Her views are otherwise pretty standard for this corner of abusers. I can muster compassion only if they are willing to seek help, and submit themselves into mental care they obviously need.
An interesting topic, and one that raises the old question of the “Invisible Man” syndrome—i.e., what would you do if you were invisible? I’ve long been of a mind that if women knew what we men are thinking, their opinion of us would pretty much coincide with Ms. Allard’s. Would I rape an unconscious woman if I knew for sure that I’d never be caught? I would hope that my better self would kick in but, to be honest, I can’t say with certainty that it would. Not proud of this, but there it is. So am I the norm or an anomaly?
Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Well, you’re an honest a**hole, anyway.
Until you’re feeling a bit less vacillatory, you may want to invest in an inflatable Debbie doll.
As prophylaxis for that unconscious woman.
Alternatively just tug one off before leaving the house every morning. Sounds like you have some issues.
“Sounds like you have some issues.”
Worse, I’ve admitted to having issues that I thought might be common but that no one else seems to have. Don’t you hate it when that happens?
As much as I’m troubled by his impulses, I admire mirandaga’s honesty in stating them. I doubt he’s alone, except in his candor.
True. And his impulses might be more fantasy than anything else. I think a lot of people indulge in fantasies about things they’d never really do in real life.
Lordy, I’ve got some oddball fantasies myself. In none of them, though, are the women insensate. Different strokes, I guess. 🙂
Thanks, Diane and Ken. On re-reading my original post I think the real fantasy on my part might be the assumption that women don’t know what we men are thinking.
The lifetime chance that a woman will be raped or otherwise sexually assaulted is less than 2%.
That’s per a recent BJS crime victimization survey.
ya 15% sounds absurdly high. It’s not at all believable for rape.
Sexual assault, maybe, but I’d expect similar numbers for men.
Keep in mind that many women *never* report a sexual assault, especially acquaintance rapes.
If you write for Everday Feminist you lost the claim to saying you are sane. EF is a plague to enlightenment thought.
So, because some mothers abuse, neglect or even kill their own children, we should say, “There are no safe mothers.”
women contribute to infanticide culture didn’t ya know
Yes, just ask Oedipus.
Hasn’t that guy suffered enough for some inadvertent incest?
And don’t forget the inadvertent patricide. Well he did blind himself with Jocasta’s brooch. I thought he should have cut himself some slack.
I’m not entirely sure that what Allard is doing wouldn’t class as emotional abuse.
People are generally decent.
She is integrating over possibilities the wrong way and arrives at a conclusion that is void of probabilities.
Most of us ‘men’ are likely to be 100% without incidence of instigating rape. As challenging and as implausible as it is for me to consider, I could rape someone. It is physically possible. That’s what she is getting hung up on. Not so much the fact that it’s also physically possible an atom tunnels through a piece of tape, though she may have to wait till the sun fades.
What worries me greatly here is the use and abuse of the word “safe,” which has, over the past few decades, increasingly been deployed to cover an array of human arrangements, from children’s playgrounds (no more freestanding slides), to conference rooms (I was once at a conference in the UK where the site manager spent a half hour telling a group of adult journalists and academics how to use our chairs, open doors, and ask for band-aids), and, most blatantly these days, “safe spaces” on campuses. It proceeds from the false notion that the world can be made entirely safe, and, beginning with children, this mind-set tends to infantalise even adults as unable to withstand even rubber-tipped slings and arrows, and ultimately engages appeals to authority, and authoritarianism. In fact, the world is safest where the ideas of the Enlightenment have prevailed.
+ 1
Well, that’s the Elf’n’Safety culture that has gone mad in the UK over the last twenty years or so. At least in part due to the belief nowadays that there is no such thing as an accident, and that there is always someone to blame for anything unpleasant that happens.
One company for which I worked even had rules about how to go down stairs (one hand on the stair-rail at ALL times).
Whilst I agree that this is ridiculous as a company rule, I have to admit that I discipline myself to keep one hand on the bannister at all times. This is because two people of my direct acquaintance, both young and healthy, have died as a a result of injuries sustained through falling down domestic stairs. Just take care 🙂
Well, my home bar, which I have almost finished fitting-out (red bar top, red leather bar stools, red retro fridge, mirrors, glass shelves, etc.) is at the top of my house, giving *two* flights of stairs to navigate (one with a 180 degree bend) back down after cocktails.
I shall be very careful! 🙂
+ 1
There are dangerous men out there and we’ve probably all encountered them. In high school I spent a fair amount of energy identifying and avoiding these males and I hope everybody else did. For this author to tar us all with the brush of “dangerous” is just unhelpful and will lead to us avoiding people, like this author, who demean us in that way.
She’s had an unsatisfying relationship with her ex and likely with men in general. Ergo; All men are pigs.
Classic man hater.
Granted that rape is especially repugnant and sex based violence. But it is men that is the most common victim of violence.
I note that it is akin to mohammedanism in that sense, harming most strongly within the population. But here there is a strong biological component, and aside from that there has long been various movements for as much cultural “reformation” that we can make (such as law, feminism, et cetera).
Good on you GM, well said!
Good on you for triggering everyone.
Your arguments themselves are a bit basic – in my mind coming across as a student perhaps, with very strong opinions, based on a bit of knowledge, that will be defended come hell or high water.
Still, I encourage my young daughter to express herself, as long as the discussion is robust, and she allows her opinions to morph into ideas.
Still, you had some good strong ideas, such as:
– This blog is called “WhyEvolutionIsTrue”, do I have to remind that?
– Congratulations, you just failed Reading Comprehension 101.
– Yes, you are too middle class to understand, that is correct.
And when an interesting idea challenged his premise, the retort was “The world is a complex place…”
I my have lost an IQ point reading your posts, but I was highly entertained.
Keep it up.
I f’ing hate that guy. You forgot “…put the blame for rape where it truly lies, which is female behavior.”
I agree, but a comment such as that is obvious trolling behaviour.
I refuse to get worked up when someone just wants a reaction.
He’s basically sitting in front of his computer, in his pj’s, eating cereal and waiting for fish to bite to compensate for his evolutionary shortcomings.
Of course, I would never resort to such infantile tactics…oh wait…
😉
It seems women are quite unsafe, as well:
https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/07/11/sexual-offending-by-women-is-surprisingly-common-claims-us-study/?utm_source=feedburner
I wonder if Ms. Allard would hold to her logic with these findings.
sub
As a woman I can’t relate to that sort of divisive and dangerous thinking about men and it is based on an illogical argument that doesn’t hold any water.
Wow, the irony in her statement “I’m through wasting my time on people who are more interested in ideas than feelings”. She says this as she tramples over her son’s feelings because of her ideas about men.