So you thought that Pope Francis was a “modern” pope, resolved to drag the Vatican, kicking and screaming, into modernity? Well read this bulletin from CNN that just landed in my inbox:
Freedom of expression is a right, but there are limits when it comes to insulting faiths, Pope Francis told reporters today, referring to events surrounding the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris.
“One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith,” Francis said. Likewise, he said, people have religious liberty, but “one can’t kill in the name of God.” He said this after a reporter asked him about religious liberty and freedom of expression.
The pope made the comments on a trip to the Philippines.
“Onc cannot make fun of faith?” What world is he living in? Has Bill Donohue gotten the Pope’s ear? Sorry, Pope, but people have been making fun of faith for a long time, and it’s not going to stop. But Francis could at least reduce the level of derision by curbing the ludicrous tenets and excesses of his faith. How about de-classifying homosexual behavior as a “grave sin”?
If you are one of those who is fascinated by the pronoucements of this Pope, you can see more about his interview at the Catholic website Crux. It adds this about the Francis’s interview:
In particular, the pope said, one shouldn’t abuse freedom of expression to “provoke” or “offend” others deliberately, and also shouldn’t be surprised when they react to such taunts.
Even in the case of a dear friend, Francis said, “If he says a swear word against my mother, he’s going to get a punch in the nose. That’s normal.”
Do you think Francis would really punch someone for that? Jesus wouldn’t sanction such violence! Crux adds:
. . . Every religion has its dignity … and I cannot make fun of it,” the pope said. “In freedom of expression there are limits, like in regard to my mom.”
In sum, the pope appeared to be saying that while nothing can justify the kind of violence witnessed in the Paris attacks, that doesn’t mean “everything goes” in terms of how to present religion in public.
h/t: David
Have you guys ever wondered what’s under the Pope’s hat?
Does his royal highness the ever-loving and progressive, his high loveliness, the Popey-Wopey-Popeiness also realise that, by making such statements, that most non-faitheist people are going to do exactly the opposite and poke fun and ridicule ‘faith’ even more?!
Well, they are in this house…
Well, yeah. The catholic church – where do you start?
At the drug cartels.
Okay, that’s another accusation of a crime without any supporting evidence. You will not be posting here any further.
I’m so fucking done with Jews. They’re racists to the core.
Is it possible somebody’s hacked Jesper’s account? Or that he’s having an acute attack of some sort of disturbance?
b&
Nope, I’m just me. I’m inventing Hell for you.
There were some other disturbing profanity-filled comments by this man on Freethought Blogs a few days ago. They were demented, not just sarcastic. I vaguely remember this person making normal comments in the past. I suspect Ben is right on one or the other of his hypotheses. Jesper, if that is really you, go talk to some friends and get help.
…and, if anybody knows him in real life…check up on him, please? Make sure he’s okay?
b&
Very bizarre. I thought Mr. Pedersen had been reasonable in the past, too. Today’s comments took me by surprise.
I too am taken completely by surprise. Previous to today Jesper Both Pedersen had noticably stood out to me as a kind, thoughtful and especially tolerant commentor.
I do seem to remember reading that he suffers from depression. So, I second Ben’s request. If anyone knows him in real life please check up on him.
I’m gonna side with these suspicions as well. I do remember on one of the discussions about mental health, Jesper mentioned past issues he’s had. I hope he is okay.
Yes, I’m worried as well.
I agree Ben. It is something odd going on here and I wouldn’t be surprised if he were hacked or if something is going on with him. If it is the latter, I hope someone can look in on him. If it is the former, I hope he gets it sorted and can get in touch with Jerry and explain the hackery.
I’m skeptical of the “hacked” idea. I think the probability of someone hacking for this purpose, and in a couple of forums (fora?) where such comments would make at least minimal sense, is rather small. The “some sort of disturbance” feels more likely to me.
Yeah. He was posting on the CH thread the other day, and he seemed perfectly normal, did he not? In fact, he was one of the more reasonable people.
WTH.
He is currently trolling The Friendly Atheist on Patheos, and acting just as abusive.
Weird.
Well Jesper seems not to be himself.
Jesper’s tw**ts have suddenly taken a different tone, too.
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You’re banned for life. I have no idea where this outburst of hatred and unfounded accusations comes from, but you won’t post here any more.
He’s trolling a lot of places to start a firestorm.
Troll Warning — Jesper is currently trolling Michael Nugent’s blog, WEIT, FTB and the SlymePit.
Just let it go and ignore his childish little game.
+ patheos
What the hell dude?
I’ve never thought Frankie was a “modern Pope”; I’ve thought he was simply PR for a vile and shitty institution. And hey, Francis, let’s get off mothers, I just got off yours.
The thought of the pope swinging a left hook at someone who dissed him mammy is priceless. I think I just imagined Charlie Hebdo’s next front cover.
Well, if I’m going to earn a punch in the nose, might as well go out like a Lannister …
The pope’s mama so dumb, she lost a spelling bee to Hodor.
The pope’s mama so dumb, she thought Bran Stark was a type of muffin.
The pope’s mama so fat, they’ve been calling her “The Wall” for thousands of years!
The pope’s mama so feeble, she Winterfell and couldn’t get up!
The pope’s mama so old, the old gods pray to HER!
The pope’s mama so fat, she got stuck in the moon door.
The pope’s Mama so ugly, she got turned down for “Girls Gone Wildling.”
… thanks, Google! You always know where the low humor is!
The Pope’s Mama, Mary, hasn’t seen any action in over two millennia….
b&
Sure, but, Jesus, Joseph and Mary! What a lay that first one was! Lots of people say “Oh, God” during lovemaking, but she’s the only one who … you know …
Save that the poor girl apparently wasn’t even aware of it when it happened. Must have slept through it….
b&
Which is very awkward for a supreme being. Believe you me, when Zeus brought his A-game a lady knew it.
It does explain why there was no second “date.”
Indeed, I’ve heard that his lovers were rather bullish on him….
b&
Wait a Minotaur! What the Hellenist thread descending to? Puntheism?
It’s not just priceless, it’s disgusting.
Apparently Mr. Popester thinks some speech does in fact warrant a violent reaction.
And you’re not actually for freedom of expression if you think the possibility of offending someone should count as a limit.
Excatly. How surprising is that?
Not very, except perhaps for these people who’ve been saying this pope’s different.
It’s a shame he didn’t respond the way the Jesuit editors of Etudes did. They got it right, he didn’t.
Giving credit where it’s due, there was also a Jewish group that did the same thing the Jesuits did (republished CH cartoons that targeted them, to show they support free speech even when their own beliefs are lampooned/blasphemed)
See the very last paragraph of this article.
Credit to Jerry for making me aware of Etudes response, in an earlier post of his (or Matthew’s) on the reaction to the CH killings.
Eric what’s your last name?
Jesper, I’ve read enough of your sexist, trollish blather on Ed’s blog that I’m not interested in holding any more of a conversation with you than this. Feel free to respond to me, but I won’t be responding to you.
Sure, keep on trucking, mate. 🙂
Indeed, Mr. Pedersen is quite the misogynistic, bottom feeding scum bag.
Here is some representative sewage outfall from this great mind over at Ed Braytons “When Women Couldn’t Vote” post.
If you men can’t understand that women fundamentally are controlled by their feelings. Then we won’t make any progress.
and
The Pope is weak.
He’s afraid of women.
Quite the piece of work.
What’s wrong with hating women who are evil?
It’s interesting how your behavior is so different on this site compared to that other one. I guess the roolz here really are effective. On this site you appear to be fairly rational while on the other site not so much.
John Taylor. I accuse you of being a traitor to your nation.
Be proud.
And die.
As regards the first comment, it’s both mysogynistic and half-assed: all sentient beings “fundamentally are controlled by their feelings” – that’s what sentience is. People intellectualize, obfuscate and channel their feelings in all kinds of different ways; it’s a stereotype that one gender or the other is all-feelings or no-feelings, and anyway the variance between the average “emotional female” and an “unemotional man” is not as vast as people make it sound. The stereotypes are a cultural relic, and confirmation bias is at play when we observe a significant difference between genders.
Better: If we can’t understand that we are each nothing but our individual brain states, and that “free will” (in any meaningful sense of those words) does not exist in our deterministic universe, then we will make slower progress as a species than we might.
I have no comment on the second comment.
Look, Jesper, you are continuing to make irrelevant or, in this case, invidious comments. Knock it off.
Pope Frank says,”Freedom of expression is a right, but there are limits when it comes to insulting faiths”
I say, “Challenge accepted”
“One cannot make fun of faith,” = “One can’t kill in the name of God.”
Same thing. Totally.
Likewise, he said, people have religious liberty, but “one can’t kill in the name of God.”
NEWS FLASH: POPE REFUTES BIBLE
The Pope is a pedophile. Deal with it.
Your evidence? One more comment like this and you’re gone. Don’t accuse someone of a crime without evidence.
It’s ok, Jerry. I’m out.
That Catholic convert, G K Chesterton, wrote wisely that “It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”
I see no reason to disagree.
Yes. If someone’s faith is so weak they can’t handle it being questioned, they need to look at themselves, not the other person.
There’s a big difference between insulting someone’s mother and criticizing an idea. The former is rude and ignorant, the latter is a right that must be protected.
We have to be able to continue to question ideas. That’s quite different from a personal insult. The pope’s analogy fails imo.
But, even still, rude and ignorant insults towards one’s mother don’t call for anything more than simple shunning — certainly not a papal punch to the face.
b&
Isn’t the reason why religionists are trying so hard to keep people from criticizing them in public that, deep down, most of them know (400 years after Galileo) that their teachings are nonsense, and the more widely this is known, the more members, especially young people, they lose?
It’s clearly panto season!
Frankie: One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.
Gnu Atheists: Oh yes you can!
(Happily.)
Frankie: One can’t kill in the name of God.
Islamists: Oh, yes you can!
(Sadly.)
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Cue Tom Lehrer, on piano, playing and singing “Vatican Rag”.
Very late to the party, but cue Tim Minchin singing “The Pope Song”.
I’ll hold out for David Peel and the Lower East Side and their 1972 hit, The Pope Smokes Dope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnD-Di0UGyg
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
– Matthew 5:39
I predict he (or his apologists) will be popesplainin’ that one within the day.
As to this, I prefer the comment by the late former premier of the former Soviet Union, Nikita Khrushchev when asked his view of Yeshua ben Yusef of Nazareth. He replied that he agreed with Yeshua on many things but he disagreed with him about the turning the other cheek business. “When someone slaps my cheek, I don’t turn he other cheek. I knock his block off.”
Who is to decide what is insulting? Actually, the whole Theology of the Roman Catholic Church is insulting to any rational being ( as nearly all theologies are). I speak from experience, being institutionalized in the Roman Catholic Parochial School system for 12 years. I was physically abused many times for asking probing questions. But as one medieval pope said, “Get them while they are young and they will never recover.” I never bought their nonsense. I simply lied to them about my beliefs.
There is nothing more terrifying than true belief that an omnipresent fascist dictator is monitoring your every thought. Unfortunately, this sunk into my head very well as a child.
There was an article in Patheos the other day, with accompanying video, of a pastor showing off about hitting a kid who asked too many questions. He was “too smart” apparently and not taking god seriously enough. Sickening.
Beat the curiosity out of the children…that’s how we return to the Dark Ages.
Jeeze, whatever happened to “turn the other cheek”? Well, now I know how to open the conversation with the Pope if I ever meet him. I figure I’m still quick enough to dodge the punch.
Having him arrested for Assault or Assault and Battery. You could go either way.
Slap him in the face and tell him he’s a naughty boy. 🙂
About one more of his guys on the Supremes and we are in deep stuff. Hell, we are anyway.
Exactly, Randy. We’re fucked.
sub
Suit yourself, Frank, just don’t try to tell me what to do.
While the Pope condemns satire and promotes assualt, where is his condemnation of the people caging children in the Philippines? The same children who have been orphaned thanks in no small part to the prohibitions of birth control and women’s rights due in no small part to their Catholic theocracy.
Warning, the linked article has some fairly graphic pictures. The first few sentences sum up about all one needs to know about this:
Cut and paste fail, that should read:
The same children who have been orphaned thanks in no small part to the prohibitions of birth control and lack of women’s rights in their Catholic theocracy.
Disgusting. These are the feet he should be kissing. Poor kids – as if they don’t suffer enough already, they’re getting more from those who should be protecting them.
>“One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith,” Francis said. Likewise, he said, people have religious liberty, but “one can’t kill in the name of God.”
Don’t know where he got that from.
“In verses 8:12-13, the Quran endorses killing disbelievers. In Leviticus 24:16, the Bible calls for the killing of blasphemers. Both of these books are revered and respected by billions of people around the world. As for those who criticize and satirize them — their weapons are pencils and laptops. Who should really be offended here?”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/how-terrorism-won_b_6440982.html
Ali A. Rizvi is spot on with his question, who should really be offended here?!
Good article – worth reading.
Ok, I’ll say it. Lighten up Francis.
Does he know his own Bible? In 1 Kings 18:27 Elijah makes fun of Baal. Apparently it was OK back then to make fun of other faiths!
I sort of agree with the pope. We should be beyond poking fun of faith and well into hardcore insults and blasphemy by now.
I’m sorry, what was that, Pope? You formed and exorcist squad because you think demons possess people? I think that not being allowed to make fun of faith thing sounds a little self serving in light of your crack team of chanters and holy water sprinklers.
Why is it ok to mock politicians but not faith?
Faith means belief without evidence, ie wishful thinking, because people never ever believe by faith something that they do not want to be true. Surely this is something that we have a duty to ridicule?
Faith is not a virtue.
It is a lie.
TBH I was never really convinced by him from the off. Less obviously creepy than his predecessor, and it appears that his heart is in the right place over some issues at least, but he’s the frigging Pope. By “liberal” it’s really “only slightly less insanely conservative” as, well, we all know what the RCC hierarchy is like.
But at least it’s quite funny to see people flapping about this where they shouldn’t really have been surprised.
“You can’t make fun of faith,” said a man wearing a dress and a really tall hat.
Which reminds me of a joke: A nearsighted transvestite loses her glasses and makes a wrong turn on her way to a drag revue, walking instead into a church just as the priest is coming up the aisle swinging the censer. She looks at him and says, “I love the dress! But honey, your handbag is on fire!”
If you want irreverent humor, ask a Catholic. I grew up in that cult, and had twelve years of Catholic education. I think humans may have an instinct for offensive humor. When we were too young to understand sexual jokes, there were two categories we did understand that we could offend with: scatological and, because we were having it pounded into our heads all day every day, religion. When it came to some of the most offensive jokes, we heard them from the priests.
Sorry, but mothers, grandmothers, wives, husbands, fathers, everyone is fair game. My mom isn’t perfect. Perhaps you have a meaningful complaint against her, her opinions, or her behavior. Nothing is sacred IMO.
Exactly. I’m so sick of the sort of condescending references that abound concerning mothers and grandmothers. That’s treating them as if they were children!
Fuck the motherfucker.
b&
No, that’s not “normal.” That’s the barbaric mindset of an archaic anti-rational honor culture, where insults are treated like physical attacks and people gain status by how swiftly they take revenge and how many bodies they’ve racked up.
We’re trying to outgrow that sort of thing. Nice to know that today’s representative head of the Catholic Church thinks we all ought to cultivate quick tempers, a lack of restraint, and a tendency to resort to violence. You don’t only need the faith of a child, you need a toddler’s operational mode.
As for “making fun of faith” being beyond the pale, this is rather funny coming from a Catholic. My experience is that most Catholics in the US absolutely love stories and plays and movies which poke fun at the “Catholic experience.” Think Do Patent Leather Shoes Always Reflect Up?
In fact, Julia Sweeney’s one-woman show “Letting Go of God” was puzzlingly popular with Catholics. They used to come in church buses, apparently a happy outing with a sign-up sheet. Yes, she talks about her Catholic childhood and it’s amusing — but she very explicitly goes on to reject the Catholic God and then God in general.
She said that the reaction in the lobby afterwards was interesting. Many Catholics gushed over how ‘wonderful’ it was without seeming to consider the very serious atheist perspective of the piece, as if this was dancing nuns or something. Others would very carefully refuse to look at her, faces grim.
Some of them did address the topic, very respectfully, and gave her credit for how much and how deeply she had thought about religion.
One of my favorite shows on TV was “Father Ted”: http://goo.gl/EgXjbV
Me too! 🙂
Well said.
Excellent! Precisely.
“In particular, the pope said, one shouldn’t abuse freedom of expression to “provoke” or “offend” others deliberately, and also shouldn’t be surprised when they react to such taunts.”
The thing is that even when mocking religious seems to serve no purpose other than to provoke, there is almost always the deeper point being made that you SHOULD be able to make fun of religion just like anything else in the world. If religion didn’t get so worked up when people made fun of it, I bet fewer people would “just for the sake of being provocative”. It would lose all meaning.
Religion makes strange bedfellows.
Yet authoritarianism makes entirely predictable bedfellows.
Indeed. I’m sure devout Muslims everywhere are like, “I knew the Pope would have our back!” And the jihadis are all, “Yeah, man, I am seriously rethinking my position on killing all the infidels!” And Bill Donohoe is going, “I’m so offended the Pope says you can’t kill in the name of God! Argle gargle bargle!”
Actualy Francis made a point, but wasn’t realy aware of it (he is not aware of the difference – maybe he doesn’t know there is one).
Offending people (his mom) e.g. harming their reputation might be a crime (esp. accusing without evidence).
but
Offending (eg. making fun of) beliefs, feelings or emotions cannot be a crime nor an excuse for terror or aggression.
“Every religion has its dignity.”
Every religion desperately, desperately, craves a dignity that it didn’t earn and doesn’t deserve. The knowledge that the dignity they pretend to is just pretense is a big part of why they are so touchy about it. Earned dignity isn’t easily undermined, certainly not by the words of others. Pretend dignity can evaporate in a single joke.
‘Cause we know that as soon as we stop with the humour, Lord Xenu will be clamouring to get some more respect.
+1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGBAZTQ0nbQ
You can’t beat a little bit of comedy to show how silly somethings are
+lots
I adore Father Dougal. I have the DVDs.
What DVDs would those be, Heather?
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Ambrose Bierce said it best
> In particular, the pope said, one shouldn’t abuse freedom of expression to “provoke” or “offend” others deliberately, and also shouldn’t be surprised when they react to such taunts.
Which reminds me: In 2012, the Vatican tried to file a cease and desist against the German magazine Titanic, our equivalent to Charlie Hebdo. It was about Vatileaks, and this cover:
http://kurier.at/mmedia/medienpool/2012-07-10/164223_fe3.jpg
The captions read: “Hallelujah in the Vatican The leak has been found!” (front) and “Another leak found!” (back)
That is deeply offensive. Please remove it or I will come at you like a cardinal.
😉
Dear Popery.
If religion didn’t do stupid destructive things to people and society, like obstruct the law, protect pedophiles, lie about contraception and such, and generally infringe on peoples rights, we might not have to say anything bad about religion.
But as long as there are ministers who stand up and say hurricanes and tornadoes are caused by God because of homosexuality, we not only have the right, but the duty to stand on our hind legs and tell these people how ludicrous their ideas are.
Stop believing and spreading really stupid ideas, and we will stop telling them how stupid they are.
Stop believing and spreading really stupid ideas, and we will stop telling them how stupid they are.
Seconded!
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>
In contrast to any other belief, those based solely on faith are the only beliefs that are completely justified to be criticized.
Faith is, by definition, undefendable.
The pope needs to learn logic and grow some cajones: religion abhors criticism because it is insecure.
Does anyone else feel overcome with a sense of irony whenever the Pope does something like this? Or is it because in the modern world, the idea that there is a man so close to the (Catholic) God that he can interpret his every single whim is rendered inherently ridiculous? … To the Hitchens mobile!
So, the Pope is saying ….
a) the killings were pretty bad, a crime even, but ….
b) they shouldn’t have taken the piss out of Mo, consequently …
c) they deserved it and I would probably have done something similar (maybe not actual killing, but a kick in the balls maybe?)
… Now what was that thing about a moral compass?
Pope says: “One can not kill in the name of God!”
Bible God Says:
” Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”
(1 Samuel 15:3)
And:
“17GOD: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.”
(NUMBERS 31:17-18)
It’s always amazing to hear Christians – even Popes – speak as if they have never read their own bible…or speak as if they think no one else has and won’t notice their blatant inconsistencies.
I guess they are so used to being among fellow worshipers allowing them to make sh#t up as they go along, that they just forget the rest of the critical thinking world when they open their mouths publicly.
I am well past the point of no return as far as these monolithic faiths are concerned. From this distance nothing would appease me, short of selling up their assets, distributing it and declaring life is to short to live a lie based on a fairytale.
Darwin has shown where and why and that we are a clever primate and it’s about time we began acting like one.
Pope Fantasy and his church are hypocrytes of a high order but as it stands he is probably right, many would punch first at a mother insult and disregard the consequence proving ignorence is our enemy, not tolerance.
Centuries of tradition and power coupled with human nature e.g. a desire for permanancy, is a force feeding itself by it’s devoted, poking holes in it is not only fun but a healthy tool at alleviating our frustration I would claim.
‘Jesus & Mo‘, Jan 14th: “You can’t compare it to … a cartoon insulting someone’s mother.”
Pope, Jan 15th: “If he says a swear word against my mother, he’s going to get a punch in the nose. That’s normal.”
Well played, cartoonist! Let’s play Predict-a-Pope!
HA! I think we’ve found The New Prophet!
Just as the whole Charlie Hebdo shitstorm of victim-blaming seemed to be petering out I caught the beginning of This Week on B.B.C.1, hosted by the inimitable Andrew Neil, and a discussion that represented the absolute nadir of left-wing ‘free-speech-but’-ery, fatuous victim-smearing and Islamic apologism.
It was between a likeable and sensible Muslim comic whose name escapes me, Andrew Neil himself and a French-Algerian journalist of quite breathtaking chutzpah.
The latter was utterly shameless in her traducement of the seething Nazis at C.B., unequivocal on the offensiveness of the new C.B. cover and beyond-satire in her ‘check-your-privilege’-ing of the(by this point slightly shocked) host. Michael Portaloo and Diane Abbott, tory and labour backbenchers respectively, then waded in to defend Neil and take her to task. Both depressing and enormously entertaining in a guilty-pleasure, Jerry Springer kind of way. Another iPlayer recommendation:)
The French journalist’s arguments nevertheless to me represented the latest nadir in left-wing sophistry and self-righteous wrong-headedness.
It feels like all the difficult discussions that this awful event precipitated have by now taken place, and the left is even more confused and all-over-the-shop than they were before.
People lose all credibility (in my eyes) when, like the French-Algeria journalist did, they conflate religion (as a target of satire) with race.
Actually, Michael *Portillo* (for confused international readers) is no longer a Tory backbencher; he retired from politics in 2005 and is not even a member of the Conservative party any more.
I have to say, I’ve warmed to him since he stopped being an MP. He did well here.
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I’ve never seen Andrew Neil dismissed with such hauteur. Considering what a bulldog he is it took some chutzpzh even if her arguments were rancid.
I’m sure Portillo(instinctive misspelling first time around – apologies) is more pleasant now he’s no longer having to toe quite the same line as the rest, and he was very good yesterday. I hear him on The Moral Maze on R4 though and he always manages to get up my nose. But so does Giles Fraser, and so does Michael Buerk and of course Melanie Phillips, even Claire Fox…that’s the point of the Moral Maze though I guess…
It was a bloody good interview though. These snippets of interesting live T.V. are always utterly unpredictable – they appear on so many normally moribund programmes that it’s worth keeping a general eye on stuff like This Week, Q.T. and my personal favourite The Big Questions.
I agree about the Big Questions. I think Nicky Campbell is a very effective and even-handed moderator, even in the face of idiocy such as the “atheists are demons” guy in last Sunday’s program.
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Apologies for the late reply.
Yes, that guy was mental, even for the usual Xtian fundamentalists they have on the show. I like Nicky Campbell too, and I suspect he has a slight sympathy for the atheistic views that he regularly hears on the show.
In fact it was one of the best Big Questions I’ve seen in a while. And I’m embarrassed to say I rarely miss it. The shame.
I thought the reaction to the christian guy was telling – all his stuff about the evilness and poison of humanism was just laughed off. It’s such a common response to insults against us, ie. that we just laugh it off, but it’s rarely noticed, or contrasted with the insane over-reaction of religious partisans to insults.
I think we could do with patting ourselves on the back from time-to-time(no-one else will after all), possibly with one of those big foam hands.
You don’t say? It’s a good thing religious sages like Mr. Pope are here to dispense rarefied moral wisdom like that. And here I wasn’t believing theists when they claimed religion was necessary for morality. Showed me.
He mixed his words up a bit. Here, let me Popesplain’. He meant you can indeed kill in the name of God, you just can’t kill for God’s honor since God doesn’t exist. There…oh wait, another level of Popesplainin’ is needed.
He’s forgetting Scientology.
From The Guardian:
That’s what we’re doing, Frankie. That’s what we’re doing.
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“[O]ne cannot make fun of faith”
– Says the chap who looks like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bowen wearing a dress.
And, if I may edit a well-know internet meme: A man who believes that his invisible friend the cosmic Jewish zombie (who’s his own dad, and who sacrificed himself to appease himself), can make you live forever if you eat a cracker that magically transforms into his body, and telepathically tell him that your a miserable worm and that you accept him as your master, so he can remove and evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Nope. Nothing to make fun of there….
It is beginning to look like religion is more of a threat to democracy than the Soviets ever were. Religious extremists have murdered cartoonists for availing themselves of free speech, caused the enacting of the Patriot Act which eroded our civil liberties, caused us to suspend habeas corpus, and engage in government sanctioned torture, etc. The Soviets never managed all that though they did get us to violate the First Amendment when we adopted a religious motto in 1956 and got us to insert a religious reference into the Pledge of Allegiance.
Pardon me, “Propaganda” Heaven knows I could be mercilessly berated for a mere typo….
The holy books of Christianity and Islam damn 5 billion unbelievers to eternal punishment. It’s irrational and insensitive (if not insane) for believers to expect respect and deference.
Nice!
This statement of Pope Francis ranks with any by him, which I am aware of, for its stupidity.
That said this pope is an improvement on his recent predecessors. He is ruffling a few feathers amongst the arch-conservatives of the Church. He is also due to give an eco-theological encyclical on climate change in March which may ruffle a few feathers beyond conservative Cathlic factions.
When Francis talks stupid – and as a Catholic he inevitably will do so – he must be called out. But if he talks clever let’s give him a cheer for that.
Here’s more of his “clever talk”, from yesterday in Manilla.
He gets no cheers from me.
Meet the new fuckwad: same as the old fuckwad.
b&
Fuckwad? I haven’t heard that one before. Always dickwad or cumwad. I may incorporate that into my vocabulary, but only for special occasions, like Jesus Fucking Christ.
Doest it apply to Protestants?
http://swordofthespiritfilm.wix.com/itwasfurtherenacted