Because of the nature of this email, I don’t have any compunction about showing it in its entirety. What a great thing to greet me after returning to Chicago!
There was no content, only a header.
They just can’t help sharing the Good News, can they? And what about the Christian evolutionists? Do they go to limbo?
I’m pretty good friends with a Church of England vicar (well, he retired last week, actually). He knows I have no faith in faith but he still thinks I’m going to heaven. I’d love him to have a conversation with Allen.
How can he justify that when all the teaching that christians use to justify their empty rehetoric, suggests that without accepting the teaching of Jesus as some aspect of god (depending on your falvour of Monophysitism or Dyophysitism, Monothelitism or Dyothelitism etc etc ad inf) you could not gain ‘heaven’. The CoE heaven is however quite wooly – obviously they will let any old riff-raff in!
😉
He’s of the opinion that if you do good, you get good. Furthermore, he does not believe that a god of love will condemn anyone to an eternity of hell and that eventually even the most wicked will receive a get out of jail pass – as long as they’re really sorry.
And yes, it’s the CoE – it’s a broad church!
Oh, and don’t shoot me, I’m just the messenger.
I would NEVER shoot the messenger Ian!
I am one myself!
🙂
The thing I appreciate about my vicar pal is that he will never, ever suggest that perhaps I should come around to his way of thinking. His basic stance is along the lines of “some people say this, some people say that, this is what I think, and you can think whatever you like – but I’ll still love you as a friend and I’m always here for you if you want”.
That’s where I was for a very long time. It’s a position that is robust to many challenges, and it allows the believer to live a very ethical life, as it sounds like your friend is doing.
To be honest, it’s hard for me to remember what began to push me more in the direction of atheism. I think it was the slow realization of the many ways the Church’s fetishization of sex messed up its moral teachings.
That was more or less the basis of what I regard as my own version of Pascal’s Wager. There was a time when I knew I was atheist but still harbored some “what if I’m wrong?” fear. Then I reasoned that, were I to believe in a god, it would be the liberal Christian one who’s all about love & forgiveness and obviously would only care about how one lived, not how one believed. Ergo, no worries.
With the hundreds of gods around there must be one who will find room for us atheists. Probably a sort of reverse Alabama with all the good believers living in their own cities.
They’re not True christians(trade mark pending)
Do they see Christ after death or is there a new method?
How boring for him. And little does he know that like a true Nature’s child, we were born, born to be wild.
and once born, we will die
And the future’s uncertain and the end is always near.
Which contradicts Sarah Connor’s “no fate but what we make”. 🙂
“Come with me if you want to be glib!” – Terminator.
At least I think that’s what he said, he had a pretty heavy accent. Cyborgs from the future talk funny.
Yeah maybe john Connor programmed him wrong.
An everlasting life with Jesus?
Not for me thanks… It would be like being at an awful party, where you could never leave.
You mean you can check out, but you can never leave?
Cue guitar solo.
“Welcome to the Heaven California…”
/@
Jesus? ‘We haven’t had that spirit here since 1969.’
“Jesus.”
“You said it, mang!”
Talking Heads- Heaven:
There is a party, everyone is there.
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time.
It’s hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, and so much fun.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
I guess that sort of proves the point: you’re either Christian (or more general: religious) OR you’re an evolutionist. I mean, deep, deep down.
I wonder how many ID creationists, deep, deep down, are really garden variety creationists.
All of them, probably. Just a different name for the same crap …
Agreed. If you read the Wedge Document, it clearly states that IDC is just a “new and improved” PR scam, designed to dress creationism up so it looks enough like science that they can fool some gullible judges and school boards into smuggling creationism into public science classrooms through the back door.
The reason Christians talk about original sin is because early Christians pulled it out of Genesis. Without Genesis, there would be no talk about original sin, yet Christianity entirely depends on redemption from original sin. Conclusion: Christianity cannot abandon Genesis. But logically, if the only basis you have for accepting something is undermined, you should abandon it. Rock, meet hard place.
I make do with unoriginal sin –
sure it’s derivative, but hey – I figure, ‘What the Hell!’
And as I always say, ‘the old ways of doing things are often the best ways.’
😀
Have you ever noticed that several YECs entered the Discovery Toot, especially after Dover? Paul Nelson and Dean Kenyon jump to mind.
That makes no sense; stating loudly that ID is not YEC, oh no sir, and then hiring people who precisely advocate a young earth.
I notice that Mr Reid has requested eternal life with Jesus, but not eternal youth. The Eos mistake, who obtained immortality for Tithonus, but not immortal youth …
Well, if that’s what the man wants, far be it from me to deny him.
The thing about evolution is that it is demonstrably true. Anyone who is willing to examine the evidence can do so. The only honest conclusion that anyone can come to is that evolution by natural selection is the best available explanation for the observed facts. The only way to discredit Darwin is to come up with another explanation that fits the facts better than his.
As I see it, any claim that there is an afterlife is demonstrably false. There are those who say that no one can ever know but I disagree. I think that we now know enough about the way the world works to know that the feeling that you have a self that is seperate from your body is an illusion. To me the idea that you can still be alive in some way after your body dies and starts to decompose is absurd.
Mr. Reid must not have read the part where Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another.” Not a surprise; it’s a point missed by a fair number of folks who describe themselves as Christian…
But, of course, e’en th’ devil can quote th’ Guid Buik.
If eternal longevity is ever accomplished through science, I wonder if Reid would regard earth as a heaven? And though that possibility may be far off in the future, Reid equating eternal life with Christ belief shows how stuck, stale, and pathetic his primitive perspective is
Instead of championing his ‘wisdom’ that evolutionists are so stupid, he should take the beam out of his own eye as the science that would make life extension possible is the same science that enabled evolution to be identified. Which side am I rooting for? Certainly not Reid’s.
Sincé when did any newborn know about evolution or any religious cult.
We are all born to die.
As for eternal ice with Christ … it just seems like that! “(informal) seeming to last or persist forever, esp. on account of being tedious or annoying” [NOAD]
/@
“all things that show or breathe
Are now instaur’d saving my wretched breast
That is eternally congealed with ice
Of froz’d despair.”
If there is life internal, all I want a little more years to my life, but not eternal.Eternal life is pointless, imagine trillion of years or infinity.But again among the billion who died no one came back.
“Death then is not just something bad that happens to us living things. Death is part of the life strategy. Seeking eternal life? The term is an oxymoron. There can be no eternal life because the very basis of life is its transient and dynamic nature.” Addy Pross, What is Life?, p. 170 of the paperback edition
Mr Reid, Evolution runs in your family. It’s why you look like your mother and father, but not exactly like your brothers and sisters (assuming you have any.) Cheers!
When you sit at the metaphorical board, evolutionist, do you not notice your king already lying on its side, but mine proudly standing and triumphant? That is the image my spirit knows is truth. Is it even necessary, then, for me to say out loud … checkmate? (No, it is not, but gloating is much more satisfying when I do. You poor, pitiful atheist. And, I have to try to help you to show I love you in Christ. Because I’m being watched.)
Thanks for the love, and thanks for the pity. And thanks for making so many of our points for us.
You may think that you are incapable of acting like a decent human being without the threat of a invisible sky daddy watching over you, day and night, but I think more highly of you than that.
hmmm, if this is a Poe, good one!
If not, funny how your “king” has no evidence for it, not even on a metaphorical board. Your imaginary friend is just as impressive as every other theist’s imaginary friend, and imaginary chess board.
The funny thing is, other people will be gloating at lsnrchrd1, poor pitiful religionist, for not believing in Allah or whatever other god…
I say clever Poe.
It gets harder to tell the difference with each passing day. How long before The Onion no longer needs to hire writers?
I didn’t set out to Poe-wn (will I establish a neologism with this contraction?) anyone this morning. Sometimes shit just happens. The three sentences in parentheses are supposed to represent sotto voce revelation, if you will, of smug superiority/certainty attitudes I observe in some Christians. Maybe Emoji will create a tongue-in-cheek image to paste in facetious posts.
OIC!
Checkmate, atheists! Is that it?
Ha!
When one clicks on ‘lsnrchrd1’ ones gets “Nothing Found” – oh, how apposite.
There this strange web site that combines a panel from the completely fluffy Family Circus cartoon strip with a caption from the very dark cartoon strip known as True Detective The juxtapositions are funny. Anyway, This one seems appropriate today.
Why is this sort of “good” news always so nasty ?
I hear they’re working on a second flavor, but they’re having trouble with the consistency.
An evolutionist is born to die and accepts that inevitability.
A Christian person is born to die but can’t accept that eventuality and so deludes himself into believing in an imaginary afterlife dreamt up by comparatively ignorant, bronze-age, desert nomads who believed a talking donkey once scolded a prophet (Numbers 22 21-39).
Jerry,
We arent gonna die bro,we going straight to hell as well as every other atheist and nonchristian theist(well,no,alot of other unorthodox christians are gonna be there too)!
Its all good, I’d rather spend an eternity with my fellow atheist than one with Jesus…
Jus saying…
as usual, Christianity is shown to be based on fear.
Atheists are born to try to understand the truth, while theists are born to waste their lives believing incredible nonsense.
The good news is that you don’t have to spend eternity with Mr. Reid. I don’t see any down side.
Wow what a zinger! I am definitely sharing this with my imaginary friend.
Translated: I’m both more humble and better off than you are! So even though I don’t deserve eternal life, I’m thankful that I’ve been given this great gift in return for simply believing sincerely that Jesus loves me enough to give it to me! I’ll continue to pray that he will make himself known to you so you can also have eternal life, bla bla bla
Or I like seeming humble but by my schadenfreude, I’m actually a smallish jerk whole likes feeling superior to others and telling you things that I hope will make you sad.
One thing I could never get past even at my height of faith: If dying for Christ guarantees eternal life, why not just be done with this life now? I don’t mean direct suicide (religions aren’t so stupid as to offer that as a free way out), but why not crusade style evangelizing? Fly over to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Brunei, or any of a number of countries and fight for Christ! If they kill you, well you died preaching the truth and trying to save them. There’s no greater nobility than that according to even modern day Christianity. Why not put your money where your mouth is and challenge fundamentalist Muslims rather than gentle professors at Universities?
I saved a picture from a Xtian “street-handout” once- it was entitled, “Family Reunion in Heaven”, and was drawn in kind of the style the Jehovah’s Witnesses use in their publications. A family of five: mother, father, young son and daughter, and baby on mom’s lap; all smiling away, with the golden towers of Heaven in the distance behind them. Christ’s in there, too! He’s standing behind them with his hand on the man’s shoulder. Funny thing was (and this was one of the reasons I saved it) that Jesus isn’t smiling- perhaps he was worn out from doing these “Sears-type” photo shoots all day long? Another reason I saved it was all of the paradoxes and questions it raised: were the children destined to be children, forever? Is the baby thinking, “Shit- why did I have to die as a baby? Now I’ll be this way for all eternity!” And, of course, I saved it just for the absurdity of it all.
I bet Jesus was the standard 6′ tall blue eyed Northern European too!
Why- they were ALL “Aryan”- how could it be any other way? Jesus, of course, had brown hair, as did the mother (the father’s hair was lighter, and one of the kids was tow-headed)- I think for Jesus to have blonde hair was just too much of a stretch for even Christians to buy!
Once when I worked in a park while a student, we had Dead Heads and JWs staying there at the same time. Of course the JWs tried to convert the Dead Heads and the Dead Heads told me about the crazy literature they showed then with the Jesus with blue eyes and fair complexion, not to mention the neatly trimmed beard.
I enjoy this site tremendously. Was a Christian until I discovered Dawkins, Harris and the late Hitchins. I can report from Cape Town and the Universities in the Peninsula that the debate is alive and well. Being a lecturer myself in law I am delighted that the new incoming students display a less indoctrinated religious background and a willingness to embrace the truth of evolution. Friendly greetings from a happy atheist.