The state of Oklahoma, having insisted on putting a statue of the Ten Commandments on the lawn of the state capitol, has reaped a whirlwind. Since that Biblical effigy was paid for by State Representative Mike Ritze (guess which political party he belongs to?), it wasn’t considered a violation of the First Amendment. But it is, since its position implies government endorsement. Ritze is an ordained Southern Baptist Deacon and served as a missionary. As Vice News reports,
As Trait Thompson of the Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission told CNN last December, “Individuals and groups are free to apply to place a monument or statue or artwork.” The applications are then approved or rejected by the Commission.
Well, one group, the Satanic Temple, took that offer seriously, launching an Indiegogo campaign to raise money for a statue of Old Nick. They asked for $20,000, but got $30,000 (hell, I would have kicked in a few bucks just to make a point). So the statue has been designed, but there’s a tiny problem: the state has put a moratorium on applications for other monuments until a lawsuit filed against Oklahoma by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has been resolved.
Still, the design for the monument is finished, and the Satanists intend to put a bronze statue on the capitol grounds anyway, claiming that their request was filed before the moratorium. Here’s what it looks like:
Now that is cool! Think of the children! Of course the Satanic Temple is getting all kinds of threats from the good citizens of Oklahoma, but really, the state brought it on themselves. If you promote one religion, you must promote them all. Just to be sure, though, the Satanists are making extra molds of the statue so they can cast replacement copies. As Vice reports:
The Baphomet, which will stand seven feet tall and be a testament to the glory of the Angel of the Bottomless Pit, would be placed directly beside the sculpture glorifying the laws given to Moses by the Christian God. The idea of a Satanic monument sitting on government property in Oklahoma—which is like the Bible Belt’s Bible Belt—seems a bit far-fetched, but Greaves says that “there has been quite a bit of discussion among legal scholars who recognize how difficult it would actually be for Oklahoma to turn us down… Constitutional law is quite clear on this issue: The state can’t discriminate against viewpoints. If they’ve opened the door for one, they’ve opened it for all.”
Ryan Kiesel from the Oklahoma ACLU seems to agree. He told the Libertarian Republic, “If, at the end of the day, the Ten Commandments monument is allowed to remain on the Capitol grounds with its overtly Christian message, then the Satanic Temple’s proposal can’t be rejected because it is of a different religious viewpoint.”
Vice can’t resist one editorial comment:
One popular argument being used against the Temple’s monument is that it doesn’t have “any historical significance for the State of Oklahoma,” as State Representative Paul Wesselhoft told a local news station in January. “The only reason why the Ten Commandments qualified,” he continued, “is because at the Capitol, what we do is we make laws. We are lawmakers. Well, one of the earliest laws we have are the Ten Commandments.” This, it is important to remember, was said by a current democratically elected member of the legislature.
And what if the statue is rejected? Temple spokesperson Lucien Greaves has a backup plan:
And if it doesn’t end up in Oklahoma City and the Ten Commandments are forced to be removed, the Satanists will try to find a home for the Baphomet in another deserving state. Texas, for instance, has had a monument of the Ten Commandments sitting on its capitol grounds for 40 years. As Greaves put it, “There are no shortage of public locations across the US where religious monuments await a contrasting voice.”
Perhaps some will object, saying a monument to Satan is deliberately designed to offend those Christians who promoted the Ten Commandments effigy (and why is there still one in Texas?). But that’s precisely the point, for the Ten Commandments offends nonbelievers. It’s not a basis in any sense for Oklahoman or American law. Lest you think it is, see how much of law is based on the following (remember that the Bible has two versions; this is one of them. I’ve put the stuff “enshrined in law” in bold.)
- Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
- Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
- Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
- Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
- Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
- Thou shalt not kill.
- Thou shalt not commit adultery.
- Thou shalt not steal.
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Maybe #6, #8, and, in some states, #7 are enshrined in law, but civilizations had laws and moral strictures against these three behaviors well before the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments monuments in Texas and Oklahoma are, pure and simple, attempts to push Judeo-Christian religion down the throats of Americans.
h/t: Luke
Sorry, is that a statue of kids worshipping the Devil or Darwin? So hard to tell. 😛
I like Nick’s pointy long fingers.
I noticed that too. Somehow it makes the whole thing work that much more for me.
As far as I know, Emma was a quite faithful wife; therefore Darwin certainly didn’t wear horns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckold
I don’t know why your post begins with an apology but I can’t imagine anyone confusing the statue in question with Darwin’s countenance.
http://www.macroevolution.net/images/darwin-as-an-old-man-337-450-17.jpg
Uh, which is why the comment was so obviously satirical it hardly needed the ‘just-to-be-safe” smiley.
Hindus want to put a statue of Hanuman there as well.
That should sufficiently annoy Christians who don’t really like “monkey gods” mingling with their Christian one.
Well that I can understand, Christians are adamant that their God did NOT descend from monkeys!
+1
& yet there are primates in episcopal churches…
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And all the other churches, as well!
If my God came from monkey gods, then why are there still monkey gods?
Because your Ghod is not the One True Ghod? (Quick – count the noodly appendages and meatballs! Both should be in large abundance.)
Common misunderstandig. God did not descend from monkey gods. God and monkey gods had a common ancestor.
And chinese should put monkey-boddhisatwa Sun-wukung statue as well …
BTW, the satan I saw is somewhat different to that statue … wondering if “sects” might have a different statue erected?
😀
That’s is a really cool statue, I love the point it is making more. I want one outside my house. I would hang a sign around it saying “missionaries welcome” written in red.
Or ‘Mormon solicitors welcome’.
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all week. A really nice piece of sculpture, too.
Will be funnier if they really managed to put that satan into pedestal, in the buckle-of-the-bible-belt?
Isn’t “false witness” enshrined in law, too? Defamation, lying under oath, &c.?
And should adultery be a criminal offence? Shouldn’t it be just a civil matter? (And fraud possibly arising is surely covered under other laws.)
In any case, I like this statue. Esp. the “Let the little children come to me” composition.
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Adultery is still on the books in 21 states, with punishments ranging from a $10 fine in Maryland, to up to three years in jail in Massachusetts. The only place I ever hear of it being prosecuted is in the military, where the Uniform Code of Military Justice has a maximum penalty of one year imprisonment and a dishonorable discharge.
Yes, perjury is a crime, which means that #9 should probably be bolded as well.
Yeah, I bet that Baphomet is just a big softy.
(PS – what does Baphomet have to do with Satan?)
Satanists adopted Baphomet during the Anton LaVey era of satanism. The adoption was legal although Baphomet has been making a stink about meeting its “birth parents.
Every once in a while I feel like I’m caught between several worlds – I was born in Oklahoma, raised in Kansas, currently live in South Carolina, and my favorite website is WEIT!!
Go figure…
Brilliant stuff. It looks like the Satanic Temple have been watching some of the old British ‘Hammer House of Horror’ films based on the books of Dennis Wheatley – stuff like the ‘Devil Rides Out’ which is a bona fide camp classic. Surely a statue of Christopher Lee should be standing next to Old Nick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_Rides_Out_(film)
Goatman makes me laugh. Though I would have colored the star with rainbow colors…you know Satan for gays! He should be all for that.
He’s seriously buff too, great abs.
Why do poor ol’ goats get such a bad rap? The are lovely animals!
Throughout time it seems to have consistently sucked to be a goat. You get sacrificed, you get eaten, you get associated with evil. Really, you’re just a curious creature with really cool eyes & woolly fur. People should respect & appreciate your gloriousness!
Seriously.
The worst they might do is get a little ornery and chase ya, knock ya on your butt.
Or give your sheet metal a ride.
Ultimate goat cartoon.
🙂
Heh. We have some goats up the block from us and my wife thinks they are adorable. I find them creepy, but then realize my emotional reaction is a whole lot of anthropomorphism/myth (I had a friend who had goats and always told me how nasty they were to him.) So I try to put aside my bias, the way I would with sharks, gators etc., and just view them as animals (as fascinating as any others.)
BTW and FWIW: “Manservant” and “maidservant” in this context are code for “slave”.
Or more realistically, considering a lot of the behaviour documented in the Bible, that would be “work slave” and “sex slave”.
And, as the Sixth Day Mammothists of the great state of South Carolina would surely proclaim…whenever there’s a controversy you’ve got to teach it!
Perhaps it should be placed at the governor’s mansion. I believe Satan’s mistress is living there now.
They missed a trick though – according to my understanding of mediaeval demonology, the Prince of Darkness was usually portrayed with an enormous erect phallus? I hope there’s still time for the sculptor to make a few adjustments before the grand unveiling.
the Prince of Darkness was usually portrayed with an enormous erect phallus? I hope there’s still time for the sculptor to make a few adjustments before the grand unveiling.
Back to Indiegogo to raise another 5000 bucks . . .
That might be seen as a cock up on the sculptor’s part …
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So, what you’re saying is that you want an even hornier devil.
The absence of hermetic appendages struck me too.
Perhaps it’s inflatable, and only comes out on the full moon?
The absence of hermetic appendages struck me too. Perhaps it’s inflatable, and only comes out on the full moon?
Perhaps it’s just waiting for the right person to walk by?
“Is that a hermetic appendage in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?”
Thirty percent ain’t a passing grade even in Oklahoma.
> Old Nick
You know about the presumed etymology of that nick-name (pun intended)? – :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccolò_Machiavelli
I guess putting up a statue of him would work equally well.
Oh, that etymology is bogus. Nick is from the German *Nickel*, meaning *demon*.
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Wait, you mean Santa Claus, Old St. Nick, is Satan? 😮
And you thought Satan’s Little Helper was a mistake?!
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I’m not familiar with that etymology – does it come from Middle German? Teufel sounds a bit like it….
Same as the metal nickel; original *kupfernickel*, *demon copper*. IIRC.
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Or Cobalt.
Um… quite a different etymology: from *Kobold*, the German equivalent of knockers (mine-dwelling goblins). But, yes, the metal was similarly *difficult*.
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Hmmmm quatsch du mich an?
Nein!
NOAD: shortening of German Kupfernickel, the copper-colored ore from which nickel was first obtained, from Kupfer ‘copper’+ Nickel ‘demon’ (with reference to the ore’s failure to yield copper)
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Right. And “kobald” and “cobalt” are similarly related.
I was present at a UU service years ago when the topic of counter displays came up. There were only a myself and a few others who were proponents. The consensus was it is too confrontational and rude a tactic, better to rely on firm yet gentle reasoned persuasion. Many individuals I’ve talked with since agree.
Bullshit. Even reasonable Christians are delusional when it comes to City on the Hill promise beliefs.
A deluge of every monument from any faith belief ever documented to exist with the USA borders has as much right to pride of place on federal property as any Christian tokens, and each state can produce its own special list for statehouse grounds.
Unfortunately, this sort of confrontational communication re Establishment is the only kind that gets results with our extremist countrymen. They are deaf and blind to anything else.
I agree. And it should be insisted that all creation stories be trotted out when teaching the controversy.
Can we have a dispensation to amble, for the infinite tower of turtles? They’re not really known for trotting.
Maybe teetered out?
Well-behaved religions rarely make history.
Thou shalt not erect any graven image – like, for example, a sculpture of the tablets these commandments were written on, you dipshits. – God
😀
Oh, that’s glorious. And the suggestion that should it no longer be needed in Oklahoma that it could be employed in other states, or even that several statues could be produced in the event more than one state requires Baphomet’s presence is delightful.
One popular argument being used against the Temple’s monument is that it doesn’t have “any historical significance for the State of Oklahoma,”
Don’t be silly! Think of all the Oklahoma preachers who have sermonized about Satan and his minions over the years!
(and why is there still one in Texas?)
Because the Supreme Court okayed it as it was donated by a civic group that was not primarily religious, had stood for a long time without complaint and it was surrounded by 17 other monuments and 21 historical markers (that supposedly lessened its sectarian impact). See Van Orden v. Perry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Orden_v._Perry
Of course, none of those factors apply in the Oklahoma case … quite the contrary, the refusal to put up other monuments emphasizes the sectarian nature of this 10 Commandments monument.
Well I just have to mention that Fox News could afford to pay more attention to #9, the bit about not bearing false witness!!!!
“Just remember: it’s not a lie if you believe it.”
– George Costanza
Just a couple of quick glosses on com. 2 (the ‘graven image’ part)and com. 6 (‘thou shalt not kill;): in reverse order–the state of Oklahoma killed someone a couple of days ago, thus defying a jealous god’s commandment not to do so (more tornadoes, Oklahomans?). While the proscription of graven images is so confusing as to be unfollowable. Luther’s Reformation led to widespread iconoclasm in Europe, thousands of heads struck off statues of even the Evangelists. Yet the richest of local Lutheran churches in my town is named ‘St. John’s’ and has in its sanctuary a ‘graven image’ of this possible person, a ‘thing that,’ by every Christian calculus, ‘is in heaven above.’
When I first read of the placing of a Ten Commandment sculpture on lawn of the Oklahoma Capitol I thought of how amusing it would be to try to have a statue of the Andean god, Pachamama placed on the same lawn:
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
The prayer alone ought to be worth hearing.
When religious monuments are placed on government land their proponents sometimes try to avoid the church/state entanglement issue by claiming that it’s an open public forum.
There are two basic strategies atheists use:
1.) Put up a display which is positive, proud, and noticeably BETTER than the Biblical one. A monument to Reason, or a Tree of Knowledge, or the Humanist Manifesto. The goal is to take advantage of the free speech forum and represent.
2.) Put up something offensive and anti-religion. The goal is to get the original proponents to shut down the forum, which is a sneak tactic and would always privilege the majority view anyway.
I don’t think either strategy is always better than the other. Maybe we need both.
This particular statue, however, makes me giggle uncontrollably. Someone at the Satanic Temple has a wicked sense of humor.
I hope the metal structures stabbing through the children’s backs are removed when it “goes live”. 🙂 I think I read somewhere that the artist is trained in Classical sculpture…not sure if that means “Classical” or “classical”. It would be even cooler if Hellenistic in pose – think about The Gaul and Wife or the Laocoon.
Oh no, those are to help support the model and an armature as the model is being sculpted. Otherwise the clay or wax might fall apart or get distorted by its own weight. It helps keep it in place and prevent accidental tipping too. It’ll be removed and the hole fixed when they begin making the molds for casting.
They might also mean classical in the sense that some bronze monuments are being created with 3d modeling in a computer rather then with a base clay or wax sculpture.
And twenty bucks of my money.
Well, placing that statue would only be ‘fair and balanced’, wouldn’t it? Teach the controversy, I say.
Yet if atheists would set up a monument or statue or artwork with historical significance for the State of Oklahoma, for example the burning of Bruno as an example of theocratic law, it would likely raise an even larger stink.
Wesselhoft is clearly making this up as he goes. As I touched on yesterday there are many known millenniums older law codices, even if you accept the doubtful dating of “biblical historians” (i.e. myth wallowers). And these law collections look much more like modern secular law and regulation, except that the commercial taxation has dated products and currencies.
An American author using “u” in neighbour and honour!!
Interesting!
And “shewing”–do you suppose there’s a ghost of a chance this was a simple copy/paste job?
Brilliant! This is exactly the kind of thing we need to raise awareness of church-state separation issues.
I was going to make a joke about the separation of Satan and State, but I’ll be damned if I can come up with anything.
I don’t recall any of the versions of the 10 commandments ever being part of the laws of the USA, the British colonies which preceeded it, or any tribe of the native Americans.
What is the significance of the two extended fingers? If anything, I would have expected the classic “devil horns” sign:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns
It’s a blessing.
Yes, Christians stole the iconography of Romans – extended fingers meant speaking. Christians changed it to blessing.
Please, this is Oklahoma. Hook-’em-horns is more blasphemous than Satan.
Yeah, sure. They were all sitting around the capitol one day and someone said … “Hey, it’s looking a little drab around here. What could we use to dress up the place a little bit?”
Someone else said …”Ya know, maybe we could put up some informative materials, say, examples of some early laws, ya know, cause we do that kind of stuff around here.
Someone else said … “Hey, I got it. We’ll get a big block of granite, carve some of that into it and plop it out front.
Someone else said … “Smashing idea “someone,” anybody know enough about the Koran or the hadiths or whatever? There must be something there. Something from the Greeks or Romans perhaps?”
Someone else said … “Not really, anybody else got an idea?”
Someone else said … “Well, looks like we’re stuck with the orders from that old war god Yahweh after the Jews were starting to ditch his “BFF” god buddies. Seems a little self serving and seriously cliche these days but what ya gonna do?”
Someone shrugged … “Guess that’s the way to go, we really don’t have a choice. All in favor, say Jesus.”
It totally happened just like that. Because nobody would lie or be intellectually dishonest for Jesus. That’s why there are no examples old laws making it a
sincrime.FFS
They could have put up a copy of the Code of Hammurabi.
Or maybe something from Solon.
So they set fire to a bush?
Americans will scandalized by anything. Spaniards are more wise and tolerant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Bellver
The Fallen Angel (El Ángel Caído, 1877), a work inspired by a passage from John Milton’s Paradise Lost, and which represents Lucifer falling from Heaven. The sculpture (see picture), of great dramatism and originality, obtained the First Medal at the Spanish National Fine Arts Exhibition in 1878, and the same year was cast in bronze for the third Paris World’s Fair. Later on, the Prado Museum donated it to the City of Madrid, and in 1885 it was installed in a square with the same name in the Retiro Park (the largest one in Madrid). For that purpose, architect Francisco Jareño (1818–1892) designed a pedestal of granite, bronze and stone.
Lucifer is not the fallen angel. The name Lucifer (meaning the bearer or bringer of light) was a very popular Christian name in Rome. It was even ascribed to Jesus by early Christians. Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari (Sardinia) was vociferously against the Arian Heresy. He irritated and angered the Church Fathers in Milan who basically excommunicated and exiled him. Saint Jerome hated Bishop Cagliari with a vengeance, and he introduced the name Lucifer in his translation of the Bible into Latin so as to demonize (literally) Bishop Lucifer. That was in the 4th century A.D.
Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari was canonized and is venerated as a saint in Sardinia where there is a church dedicated to him. His large following was called Luciferians, he is celebrated every May 20.
Huh.
29 April 2014 – Spanish government to face court after policing award given to the Virgin Mary
So … the award has to be made before the police officer is cremated, at which point they become immaterial again. Apart from a little ash.
Alfonso, you continue to post off-topic comments which are perilously close to trolling. Your purpose is to extol Spain, not to discuss the topic. Read the Roolz, now.
Well, I’m Spanish. Being Spanish is one of the few serious things to be in this world. I simply do not understand the controversy in Oklahoma for a monument to Lucifer as revenge for the tables of the law in public buildings. I see something wrong you think the exhibition of the 10 commamdemts in legislatures and courts. Easy solution: put in front a statue of the Pharaoh of the Exodus.
Not being a resident or citizen of the USA, Alfonso, explains why you do not have extensive familiarity with our religion and politics. The controversy surrounding the Satanic Church proposed monument is rooted in the Establishment Clause portion of the First Amendment to the US Constitution and secular representative democracy versus theocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause
The monument is not intended to represent the Christian latter invention of a “Lucifer” (as kindly provided by Vierotchka on this thread), but an entirely different mythical figure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet
The Church of Satan is atheistic and has nothing to do with supernatural devil worship (explained at their web site). Atheists, of course, no more believe in a devil than a god — supernatural is supernatural, it does not exist, and the devil is not real. The name was selected to piss off Christians, some of whom are so superstitious it is possible they will never be capable of grasping the ironic intent of the group’s name. http://www.churchofsatan.com/
Christian Dominion beliefs harbored by some conservative Christians in the USA are in opposition to the secular pluralistic societal values contained in the Constitution. I have no idea if the members of the Oklahoma state Legislature and the Oklahoma governor are Dominionist or not, but their legislative policies certainly mirror D philosophy.
http://www.publiceye.org/christian_right/dominionism.htm
Your suggested solution of placing non-Christian monuments on governmental property, Alphonso, is obviously the strategy implemented by the Satanic Church using the Baphomet piece. Not so fast, though.
A Church of Satan statue on Federal property in any state in the Union may pass federal court scrutiny since the Church officially registered itself as an entity several decades ago, but until a case is heard it is premature to assume federal law will confer status equal to all other religions upon the Church of Satan.
Any state jurisdiction (e.g. Oklahoma) where the church is not presently officially recognized may refuse to grant sufficient status to Church of Satan that entitles it to display a “religious” monument. California, home state of this group, is less likely to deny state sanction than the state of Oklahoma, which may well choose to litigate and risk losing on appeal at the Federal level.
My preferred strategy is to place monuments on state grounds for religious beliefs that have lengthy established local pedigree. Not only would this include each of the major religions in most if not all states, but the category would also have to include any indigenous North American residents historical religions/gods/totems, etc. Flood government grounds where Christians display iconography with a deluge of pluralistic religion.
The point being to undermine claimed privilege and preference by Dominionist Christians and their unwitting mainstream Christian supporters. Dilution is the solution.
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” logically implies that there are considerably more than just one god, and the god that dictated this commandment is highly competitive and wants to be the alpha god!
Definitely, when Jesus came, it is already a crowded market.
Actually the history of religion is a good example to the Marketing Theory of Positioning. The customer’s mind is like a battlefields (with hills as positions for winners and valleys for losers). You only win hills by dethroning those already there and you get out of valleys by building structures out.
And there are only 2-3 big hills (and a lot of much smaller ones) for every battle (2-3 big brands in soda, cigars, religions, and many VERY small ones)
That’s the reason to win people you need to build on something that’s already there, modify it a bit to make it particularly yours, and then attack viciously. Christians did this to jewish, to paganism, to wiccas, to Romanian old belief in Sol-Invictus. They took something, modified it, and use it. You defile things that were holy by the previous (like good symbol of serpent, Lucifer into baddies), and adopt those cannot / difficult to remove (like festival of saturnalia –> christmas).
And the interesting thing is .. exactly the same is done in the brand war of Coke vs Pepsi, Nike vs Adidas, Microsoft vs IBM, vs Lotus, vs Apple.
The chinese have their version, The Art of War by Sun-tzu, and “application-guide” in the novel of Three-Kingdoms.
(and I am sure other cultures have it too)
9: Lying (false witness) is a law ignored by the religious. How are we going to control the plebs if they think evolutioon is true and thus make Jesus unecessary?!
10: Coveting is what makes the wheels of industry go round, unless you are poor, then you must be satisfied with your lot. Your reward will be in Heaven. So that’s how the rich get away with paying minimum wage, ignoring the poor etc. Just pray!
Looks a lot better than that one American Atheist monument. They really could have picked a much better monument.
You can say that again!
Isn’t baphomet supposed to have tits?
Isn’t baphomet supposed to have tits?
You mean this is like another game of Spot the Nightjar?
You forget Commandment 9: perjury is a crime in every state and under federal law as well.