Just when you think the Catholic Church couldn’t get any more deeply mired in slime, something like this comes up (from The Guardian):
A furious transatlantic row has erupted over quotes that were attributed to a retired Italian bishop, which suggested that Jews were behind the current criticism of the Catholic church’s record on tackling clerical sex abuse.
A website quoted Giacomo Babini, the emeritus bishop of Grosseto, as saying he believed a “Zionist attack” was behind the criticism, considering how “powerful and refined” the criticism is. . .
The comments, which have been denied by the bishop, follow a series of statements from Catholic churchmen alleging the existence of plots to weaken the church and Pope Benedict XVI.
Allegedly speaking to the Catholic website Pontifex, Babini, 81, was quoted as saying: “They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God killers.”
Do note, however, that although Babini’s statements were published on a Catholic website, he denies them. The Church is also rushing to distance itself:
As the interview appeared on Italy’s main newspaper sites today, complete with the American reaction, the Bishops’ Conference rushed out a statement quoting Babini denying he had ever given the interview in the first place. “Statements I have never made about our Jewish brothers have been attributed to me,” he said.
The rot begins in the center and radiates out.
“Statements I have never made about our Jewish brothers have been attributed to me,”
In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, “Well he would say that, wouldn’t he?”
Think it’s only us oldies who know who Mandy is!
Isn’t it nice when they accidentally say what they really think?
Haven’t actually checked again, but I seem to recall that this particular bishop has said other anti-Jewish things, so his denial in this case is not particularly convincing. Besides, since the church is playing the victim card, it’s just what someone would say, isn’t it?
He also denied saying those antisemitic things. heh…
I’m not inclined to go apeshit over it as long as its uncertain, even though the denials hardly seem convincing. There’s enough to pick on the Catholic church about without having to center on a fact that’s disputed. 😀
From Wikipedia Italy by way of Google translate (leaving a tiny bit to be desired…)
The April 11, 2010 jumped to hit the headlines for some of his anti-Semitic and homophobic statements appeared on a Catholic news site on the allegation of child abuse made to the Catholic Church. Bishop Emeritus reply with a denial, claiming to have been manipulated by certain agencies that assign words never spoken. Denial to the editors of the site responded by reiterating the authenticity of statements made by the bishop, expressing its readiness to publish the contents of the tapes on which is inscribed with the recorded interview.
One more reason to listen to Sarah Silverman.
The whole blow-up, at this point, is hear-say and not worthy of debate. I take most of what I get from the Guardian with a grain of salt until I can confirm it from a reputable source. I will await further information before I decide (and to whom would that make the slightest difference?) The issue is so hot one could imagine a church baiter might plant such allegations. Or, it is so hot that some idiot old man might have actually said that. I won’t believe it until I see it on Fox news (fair and balanced as all truth is). I am a fellow atheist, so don’t stone me yet. I just can’t help being skeptical.
“Jesus was crucified by the Jews.” is the old anti-Semitic Christian line. It has been discarded by most for many reasons. Hardliners in every field are rigid in their prejudice.
Read Luke, they have the bible on their side.
I have. Luke was written by a person or persons unknown some 50 to 150 years after Jesus was crucified. None of the religious scholars I know believe any of the Gospels are historical excepting in a few details, mainly some sayings.
For a scholars view, read Luke in The Five Gospels. Details are at
http://westarinstitute.org/Polebridge/5gospels.html
It includes the four canonical gospels plus Thomas with commentary on what the scholars believe Jesus actually said of all that is reported. Of course you can’t read this unless you are a heretic.
As for the Jews killing Jesus, that may have been an addition to vindicate Christian Jews sense of betrayal at being denied use of synagogues after the destruction of the Temple in 68 CE.
its mean u can change the versus of ur bible whenever u want lol , than it is not the book of god its a book of any ordinary person who wish to change according to their desire lmao
Since there are no original copies of any ‘book’ in the Bible and there was no original intent to create a Bible, your view, while no more or less valid than any other, suffers from a test of certitude.
The words ‘believe’ and ‘Fox News’ should never appear in the same sentence, but let’s recap some of the myriad excuses aired thus far:
* Satan, walking the halls of the Vatican
* atheists, and secular society
* the minors themselves, who mercilessly tempt the gentle priests
* homosexuality
* Jews
* the previous pope
It’s this last one that concerns me the most; the RCC will attempt to lay blame on individuals, and not on institutional elements of the church. This will let the whole mess repeat itself over and again, just with different names and faces.
Thought all that FauxNews do is to ‘believe’ as they hardly ever get anything right or truthfully.
I vote for satan. So they need a massive exorcism to banish the bad ju-ju from the holy city!! They have an exorcist so what’s he waiting for? Then all their troubles will be over. Won’t they?
Denial, deflection, finally blaming others.
They never stopped hating Jews and their are the favorite old target. Officially not their dogma, however unofficially very popular.
For example in Poland, which high majority of population are Catholics, they are more open to express it: priests organize Jew-bashing lectures in churches (usually by the speaker who is not priest himself), there is even very popular Catholic radio (Radio Maryja) which is quite openly anti-semitic. Church bosses in country claim that it is not an official voice of the Church, but they do nothing to restrict such activities of their subordinates (perhaps because of the huge proselytization value of the station). Just the typical words/deeds dissonance. Words cost nothing. It is so embarrassing that the people cannot see through that.
Babini’s statements deserve to be read in full and widely exposed. The Guardian article omitted the part where the Bishop blames the Jews themselves for the Holocaust. Google search for “sionista” at pontifex.roma.it: Babini’s statements are still up, and Google translate will render them in English [bit.ly/c6N3yB]:
“The Church must seek forgiveness? And for what,” asks Bishop Giacomo Babini … “I think it’s time to say enough. Forgiveness we have asked too much and we do also to mass every single day. Anglicans think of it, and many of them have decided to become Catholic, now I hope that we board a nice dose of gay. … “pedophilia is a horrible thing and just one event to kick up a fuss, but I am aware that in other denominations and there are proportionally greater than that of the Catholic Church.” But who orchestrated this operation? “Enemies always cattolicesmo or Freemasons and Jews, and the intertwining of them sometimes is a little easier to understand.” … “I think it is more … A Zionist attack, given the power and refinement, they do not want the Church, are natural enemies. After all, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers. Their offense was so serious that Christ premonizzò what would happen with them not weep for me, but for your children. “What do you mean?” The Holocaust was a disgrace to humanity, but it should look without rhetoric and with watchful eyes. The truth is that the criminal Nazi fury was unleashed for the excesses and economic mismanagement of the Jews strangling the German economy.
In re. the last sentence, a now-retired colleague at the medical school here used to like to interview prospective medical students. He particularly liked to get the ones who claimed proficiency in one of the seven languages that he was conversant in. As often as not, the claimed proficiency was BS. One day, he got a guy who was quite reasonable in German, though. How had he learned it? Oh, he was in the Army and stationed there, and any chance he got he liked to go talk with the local people. Before long he’s telling my colleague how, you know, the Jews brought it on themselves.
In his writeup my colleague mentions this, adding that he supposes everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that he certainly wouldn’t recommend admission to anyone stupid enough to relate such a story to someone named Feingold.
Well, somebody had to kill him.
“If I thought the Jews killed God, I’d worship the Jews.” —Bill Hicks
He denies he ever said that about the Jews, but I found on a another news site that Pontifex says they have a tape of the whole interview and they have threatened to release it. I hope they do.
Although it shocks me to do so, I think I’m going to have side with the Catholics on this one.
Firstly, Babini denies he made the claim. Secondly, the man is in his 80’s and might not be in complete control of his actions or comments. Finally, he is a retired Bishop. He is no longer active in the running of the organisation, and it is a bit harsh to hold the Catholic heirarchy responsible for his comments, even if he did make them.
He didn’t make the claims.
He’s not responsible for the claims he did make.
Even if he is responsible for the claims he made, he’s retired so it doesn’t matter much.
justsearching.
I was wondering if someone would pull me up about this.
I don’t know if he made the claims, but he denies it then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
If the story actually is accurate, it is possible he is of diminished mental capacity due to his age, and his responsibility is also diminished.
Again, granting for the sake of argument that the story is accurate, the fact that he is retired means that he is no longer an active part of the RCC, and it is unfair to hold the church at large responsible for his comments. After all, the church did say that the story did not reflect church position.
I am no fan of the RCC, in fact I hold it in contempt. But going after a retired octegenarian bishop because he is possibly a bigot is not the way to go.
The cardinal who on Easter Sunday likened the current scandal about child TORTURE and RAPE to “petty gossip”, the church’s chief exorcist who blames the church’s problems on the devil (who else?), and Ratslinger himself make for much more worthy targets of our scorn and ridicule.
Except that they claim to be lead by perfection. So either they are or they aren’t.
HEADLINE:
Catholic bishop: The Jews killed Christ, and they’re killing us too.
BUT, 5 PARAGRAPHS DOWN…
“Do note, however, that although Babini’s statements were published on a Catholic website, he denies them. ”
I’m sure you hate it when newspapers pull tricks like that. Don’t sink to that level.
Frank, I suggest that Coyne leave the headline in place, but add a comment buried deep down in the comments section that the headline might not be true.
Like the mentioning of more than 100 children, were burned alive
HELD HOSTAGE by the WACO TeXas David Keresh…
THE phoTos could be posted here…BUT…../….But U can Go online & view their DEAD BURNED charred bodies ..
.WHAT about these little innocent children,.. >?? It makes Me cry …
It makes Me cry that
Everyone seems so upset about the little 9 yr old girl shot in Arizona..but they dont care about the child..
.THEY want to use the child to force politics to put the guns in to their murdering hands .
.They never mourned a tear for the 100 little babies burned alive at waco.
THEY sizzled in agonY and pain in flames of horrible horrible high heat from canister bombs thrown in by the democrats ,,…..WHO HATE FAMILY & BIBLICAL POLYGAMY
These democrats & Liberal animals are so filthy & sick..
They should be tried in a court of laW…CONVICTED & be given the dealth penality
FOR MURDER & torture of 100 little children HELD HOSTAGE.
…by Janet Reno CLINTON & the DENOMIC democratic cult…
The kids were hostage ) HELPLESS to save themselves or even leave ,,
& the USA Government burned them alive..
….Bec they wanted to prove Polygamy is so bad & evil…..
This fact……people dont like being reminded of facts..
OBAMA & HIS DEMON POSSESED democratic PARTY keep on pushing for VIOLENCE…
Here ARE Obamas own WORDS calling for MURDER & VIOLENCE & HATE & anger to be turned to PHYSICAL LITERAL VIOLENCE
Hitler did the same eXact same… ~~~~
“Bring it on”- Obama SCREAMS … Regime to The American People.
“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans” – Obama DECLARED to his ignorant mob..
“I want all Americans to get in each others faces! – Obama demands of his fellow bums & idiots.
“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun” –
Obama Cant wait to get everybody involved in some kind OF CONFRONTATION of some sort….
“Republicans are our enemies”–Obama has enemies.
..& he wants the local mob….& crack head followers To get ready for take over…
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
ANGER IS OBAMAS medecine for america…= .The first Crack head president.
..
Bill Clinton was the first Black president.. .
** Obama to His LITTLE crack head Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“ !
OBAMA was won by the CATHOLIC VOTE….the pope I am sure loves America
with this crack head in the white house….THE WHOLE COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE A comic movie from hell ……
The pope probably feels like he is on CRACK watching this president just take a breath,,..
He manages to say absolutly nothing ABOUT nothing.
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
HE IS EXPECTING people to kill for him….THIS IS WHAT HE LIVES FOR
THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS..
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
“God Damn America” – Barrack Hussein Obama’s Spiritual Advisor
YOu people wake up////please /
I’d give this one about 3 TIMECUBEs out of a possible 5.